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Microsoft Shows Off 360 HD-DVD Drive 124

Posted by Zonk from the christmas-toys dept.
C|Net is reporting on a demo Microsoft put on, showing off their HD-DVD drive for the Xbox 360. The unit, which is expected out for the Christmas season, is an external add-on for the company's next-gen console. From the article: "The device--about the size of a hardback book--played "The Phantom of the Opera" as Collins pulled up a menu bar to display a few of its navigation and interactive features that can be called up on screen while a movie is playing. Collins said Microsoft's HD DVD drive will be among the least expensive of the HD DVD players, but he declined to disclose the drive's retail price."
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Microsoft Shows Off 360 HD-DVD Drive More

Microsoft Shows Off 360 HD-DVD Drive

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  • *Applause* (Score:5, Insightful)

    by p0tat03 ( 985078 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2006 @01:09PM (#15874935)

    Kudos to MS I say, for giving consumers the choice. I for one can't care less about HD DVD, but I love my Xbox360, and I'm glad I didn't have to buy into some newfangled (and overrated) format that I would never use.

    If I ever DO get an HDTV though, this might be a nice addon...

  • Hrm (Score:1)

    by kennedy ( 18142 )
    Ok first off - i really dislike that the add-on drive currently doesnt seem to match the 360 (but, being pre-release this could change).
    Second - i think i'm just going to hold off till the hd-dvd is built in before bothering with the 360.
    • It sort of matches the 360 (slight curve to one of the sides), which leads me to believe that the final product will probably look like this...
      • also look at the face of the unit. Again, it's not the final product so anything can happen - i'd just prefer to see it match up more with the 360 somehow.

        *shrug*
    • i think i'm just going to hold off till the hd-dvd is built in before bothering with the 360.
      My completely uninformed guess is that there would be more avenues of attack on the crypto/drm/authentication of the external drive, than on an internal HD DVD drive.
      • I'm guessing the external drive will be seen similarly to flash drives and other USB devices. I really doubt you will be able to put anything but movies in it. Game discs will almost certainly still have to be put in the regular drive
    • I was under the immpression that microsoft never intends to have the HDDVD drive built in. They have stated games will never be released on hddvd, if they build one in there is no reason for them to not allow games to be put on HDDVDs.
      • Or maybe some developer will devise some way to put a game disk into the standard drive and an HD disk in the HD drive and use *BOTH* drives (even if at a minimum to provide HD cut-scenes for the poster above who wanted LotR and Madden in HD).

        Layne
        • Maybe, but since it is a closed platform microsoft has complete control over how they use the system. If microsoft doesn't want games to use the HD-DVD drive at all, they can do that.
    • "Second - i think i'm just going to hold off till the hd-dvd is built in before bothering with the 360."

      OK, that's you, maybe a few of your friends... but really, how many people are actually that interested in HD movies? Sony seems to believe they'll fly off the shelves ("Just like UMDs!"), but the only possibility for Microsoft to do what you suggest is if there's palpable demand for something like that, and I'm just not seeing it.

      By definition, (people who will buy HD movies) = (people who own HDTVs), a
  • Only $599.99!*

    * Xbox 360 not included.
    • Hahahaha. You're funny. Too bad the first HD-DVD player on the market ran $499...

    • Seriously though, unless the addon is less than $200, (which it almost cirtainly won't be), Microsoft is going to loose their ability to knock the PS3 as being overpriced. I understand its nice to give gamers the choice, but if you actaully want an Hi Def DVD player (I do, and I don't think I'm alone), the PS3 will actaully look like a really good deal in comparison to the 360+HD-DVD.

      Who knew I'd ever use the words "PS3" and "good deal" in the same sentence?

      And that's not to mention all the other superi

      • While MS hasn't announced an official price for the HD-DVD drive they have stated numerous times that an Xbox 360 + HD-DVD drive will be LESS then the cost of a PS3...

        This still leaves a big window seeing as they haven't said WHICH version of the 360 ($300 or $400) or WHICH version of the PS3 ($500 or $600) so it prices the drive anywhere between $100 and $300... If you want to tack on the "cheapest HD-DVD player on the market" comment (current cheapest is $500) and consider you'd have to buy an Xbox 360
      • Could it be that "crazy ol' Sony" actaully took the right path in this high end market?

        HD isn't the "high end" market; HD is the "dumbass sheep who don't realize they're being screwed by DRM" market.

      • At this point, when the PS3 comes out, my Xbox 360 will be a year old. I will have spent a year using (? is playing games 'using'?) it, and enjoying it.

        So making a direct comparison is not entirely accurate. For instance, I bought a new computer last January for about $800. I would expect that in January 2007, my $800 will buy me a computer with better specs. That's the way technology goes.

        HD-DVD wasn't available last November. Personally, I'm glad that Microsoft didn't wait- I've already gotten quite
        • Yes, I own a HDTV, but I won't be going out to re-purchase my DVDs in a new format.

          Well, unlike with the VHS to DVD transition, you can (and almost certainly will) have one player that can handle both DVDs and either HD-DVDs or Blu-Ray discs (or both, at least in some consumer players). Your DVD collection will continue to work just fine for the forseeable future, and you can still buy new movies in a hi-def format. Maybe you don't care - however, I do, and the PS3 does pique my interest. Thus far, I've not
      • Though, as others have said and MS has indicated, its almost certain MS will use there seriously deep pockets to ensure the 360 + HD-DVD together will still undercut the PS3 I still wouldnt agree that Sony had selected the right path anyway. Media playback and Console games are two different markets and a lot of people dont want them both, especially as they are fairly out of sync. (It will probably be another 5 years before HD becomes anywhere near mainstream.)

        It means that I have the choice between buying

  • Price point (Score:5, Interesting)

    by The_Pariah ( 991496 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2006 @01:12PM (#15874969)
    Retail price is said, from MS, to be that of the lowest priced HD-DVD players at that time.

    Being that all the movie processing is done thru the Xbox, the manufacturing has to be fairly cheap with a lot less hardware. And since HD-DVD players can be had at $500 today, I'm guessing a $200 price point. Take in mind MS would NOT want to sell their console and an aftermarket HD player that would cost MORE than a PS3 that has similar capabilities.

    Props to MS if they sell the player under $200. Otherwise they're inviting the HD addicts who haven't bought next gen to purcahse the PS3 to get a "better" deal.

    • Re:Price point (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Here's the problem with that, though - the PS3 is only a "better deal" if Blu-Ray wins the format war. What if Blu-Ray goes the way of the Betamax, and Sony's just screwed you by bundling something that's obsolete in their console for a few extra hundred bucks?

      With the limited number of titles out there in *either* format, I'm not picking up either an HD-DVD or a Blu-Ray player until the dust settles and someone "wins" the format.

      • Re:Price point (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Quino ( 613400 )
        Here's what makes me think Sony went about this the right way (despite the constant lamenting I hear on Slashdot): if you're the backer of Blu-Ray, you have to like your worst-case scenario. This is that Sony (your partner in the format war) bombs out badly with the PS3, selling only single digit millions of PS3 units.

        That's still millions of Blu-ray players out there, vs. how many HD-DVD players?

        I'm not saying by a long shot that the format war is essentially over and Blu-ray won, but at this point I have
        • Aah, but the studios don't care how many players are out there, they care how many _customers_ are out there. The PS3 sales don't tell them that. If you buy a PS3, what is the chance of you buying a BD disc? Well, if the number of gamers who watch DVDs on their PS2 (or even watch DVDs at all) is any indication, it's a pretty low number. Not so with the XBox Addon. If MS sells a million addons, the studios know that there are a million people who will be watching movies, because they bought the drive, and yo

          • Re:Price point (Score:2, Interesting)

            by Quino ( 613400 )
            Let's say that I agree with your statement that "studios like certainty". They will have that certainty; in what format are videos selling? and in what format are videos being rented in? -- that's their certainty, not "how many of these add on units does MS sell"?

            If I own an Xbox and a PS3 and I have an HD TV and I want to test out the "next-gen" video format, do you really think there's a greater than zero percent chance that I'll end up renting/buying an HD DVD video instead of using the Blu-ray player I

        • ...worst-case scenario. This is that Sony (your partner in the format war) bombs out badly with the PS3, selling only single digit millions of PS3 units. That's still millions of Blu-ray players out there, vs. how many HD-DVD players?

          I like your point, and I agree with your conclusion that Sony went about this the best way that it can. That said, I think the numbers you are using are not enough to guarantee even tepid success for Blu-ray. My reasoning? The PSP. Sony has sold in the high-single-digit-mill

          • The type of people who might buy a PS3 to watch high-def movies are not hte same type of people who would buy a PSP to watch movies. Seriously, how many grown-ups would buy a psp to watch movies instead of a portable DVD player?
          • Sony's recent lack of success with the PSP format, would seem to bode badly for Blu-ray, I agree.

            The difference in my mind is whether or not studios are licking their chops for the next video format so we can re-purchase our movie collections (Blu-ray or HD DVD, I'm sure they don't care), vs. supporting a video format with a limited market. I'm not sure that HD video is ready to take over the world, personally, but I would be surprised to see it fail completely in either flavor. In other words, it seems t
          • The failure (yes, failure) of UMD movies doesn't necessarily mean anything as far as Blu-Ray's success. You want to know why?

            UMDs are *only* playable on the PSP. And as a bonus - you can't watch the video from your PSP on a TV.

            This is a whole different ballgame from Blu-Ray - where PS3 is a major upcoming player, but far from the only one. And you can watch Blu-Ray discs on any TV. It's not locked to a handheld only device. Keep in mind, I own - and like - the PSP (I even have a 4 GB Memory Stick Duo for it
    • $200 might sell as long as it came with the HDMI kit for the 360, if they are making one. I can't fathom how they are going to add HDMI to the current 360s, the only option I can think of is to use a VGA->DVI type scan converter, which would add a lot to the cost and possibly degrade the quality.

      An extra external drive will probably be seen negatively by most people. MS is really only selling this external drive to keep their current installed base from yelling too much when they put the drive in to t
      • I can't fathom how they are going to add HDMI to the current 360s

        I'm not too familiar with the internals of the XBox 360 hardware, but I do know that the A/V port on it is incompatible with that on the original XBox, and I assume there's a good reason for this.

        It's possible (though entirely speculative) that the 360's GPU may be capable of outputting a digital signal which could interface with HDMI equipment.
      • You don't need an HDMI port to watch HD-DVD. The component works just fine and if reviews of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD titles are to be believed it looks better than HDMI. Plus there are hundreds of thousands of HD TV sets (like mine) that came out before HDMI existed and don't have a digital input. The manufacturers have all said that they will not limit the resolution of the component output so it is a non-issue for now.

    • Anything over $200 and the PS3 looks like a good deal.

      $200 is a fair deal.

      $150 is a great deal.

      If they manage to squeeze HDDVD into the 360 for $399 USD, there is really no reason for Sony to make video game systems anymore.

  • I Wonder (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Wednesday August 09, 2006 @01:25PM (#15875080) Homepage

    I've read that the drive only does the reading, all the processing takes place in the 360. That's kind of interesting. However, I read a comment some where that I'd like to reprint (paraphrased or so):

    I wonder if they will let you play games with it?

    Now they've said "no games on HD-DVD" (which frankly I expect them to change in a few years). But what about normal XBox games in there? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to put one game in the 360 (like Dead Rising) and another in the HD-DVD drive (like PGR3)? Then you could choose either one when the console starts up. I'd love to be able to do that with my PS2 and Guitar Hero. It would save me quite a bit of disc swapping.

    And there is no technical reason they couldn't.

    • Re:I Wonder (Score:2, Insightful)

      by DarkDragonVKQ ( 881472 ) *
      The only problem is that game developers trying to make a game for a console want a standard so they know what they can do when designing it. So having some people with an HD-DVD drive and others not makes it hard to make a game that way.

      But yes that's how a drive typically works. Its usually done by software or the CPU. Compared to a player where its dedicated hardware doing the work (which is much more efficient).
    • I still don't see much point in investing in an undecided format for games. Why not just wait it out, and put your games on multiple DVDs instead? Sure, might be more difficult with certain types of games, but it's do-able. I kind of liked how the Final Fantasy games (7, 8, 9 - although I can't be sure 9 was multiple CDs, I just don't remember) were on multiple discs - added a measure of accomplishment for each milestone. Sure, it's easier for RPGs to do this, as they have a somewhat linear storyline us

    • I wonder if they will let you play games with it?

      Now they've said "no games on HD-DVD" (which frankly I expect them to change in a few years)...

      I think the only issue with that is HD-DVD is blue laser and not backwards compatible with DVD without adding a red laser to the drive. My guess is that one of the ways they will cut costs to undercut other HD-DVD players is to leave out the red laser.

      Of course, I know nothing, but that's my guess...

    • Soon a 3rd party developer will make a very popular game on a bluray disc for the PS3, and the only way to bring the game to the XBOX360 will be on a HD DVD.

      Will Microsoft tell them no?

  • C'mon MS! Make a $499 "Ultimate" model that has the premium unit plus the HDDVD drive integrated. I'll buy one now no questions asked.
    • HD-DVD, and HDMI intigrated and a 100 gig hard drive, and you'll have 2 sales. I think it's only a matter of time.

    • Really? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by SuperKendall ( 25149 )
      C'mon MS! Make a $499 "Ultimate" model that has the premium unit plus the HDDVD drive integrated. I'll buy one now no questions asked.

      Funny, when Sony does that exact thing people say no-one will want to buy it.

      Guess they were wrong.

      • Funny how an optional addon to a console is compared to something that is forced upon users.

        If you want a 360 to play games, it's $300 - every 360 game works on the $300 core system. If you want to play PS3 games, even if you don't care about playing movies or anything else, it's a minimum of $500.

        Most people didn't even buy a PS2 for $300 - they waited for the $200 unit. Expecting gamers to pay $500 is a bit excessive.
        • If you want a 360 to play games, it's $300 - every 360 game works on the $300 core system.

          Oh right, I'm sure there's a single 360 owner on the planet without a HD - which you need to play a pretty large library of XBox titles. Your estimate leaves off a crucial component needed to play many games on the system, whereas my dropping HDMI has no impact on a GAMER.

          Did I mention the $500 PS3 plays PS2 and PS1 titles? So for a fair comparison you need to add the missing component that allows you to play older

          • I'm sure there's a single 360 owner on the planet without a HD - which you need to play a pretty large library of XBox titles

            That would be all of two games, Football Manager 06 and Final Fantasy 11. Or, roughly the same number of games that required an HDD on a PS2. The other games can use an HDD if it's there, but don't require it. Oh, and it's an option - you only have to buy it if you feel a need for it, and when you do, it's identical to the premium model.

            Compare this to the Sony approach: "If you

            • I'm a bigger fan of HD video than any of my friends, but I won't be buying into Blu-Ray or HD-DVD for some time yet, so I'd rather save my money for more games.

              Then you're not a fan, you're just afraid to make the wrong choice. Since it is obvious which choice will succeeed in the end, I don't quite understand the fear myself but cannot fault you for it.

              Your PS3 promotion and Zonk rebuttals have been looking a bit strained lately. Even your spelling is suffering, I've noticed - is it all getting a bit on y
        • Football Manager 06 and Final Fantasy 11 don't work on a core 360, they both require a hard drive.

          Given 1 is the best selling game in the UK every year since anyone can remember, that's quite important.
      • "Funny, when Sony does that exact thing people say no-one will want to buy it.'

        Sony has a $299 model that doesn't come with Blu-Ray?
      • Believe it or not, $500 is the most I'll spend on a console. And the PS3s lack of HDMI outputs on that price model kick it out of contention for me.

        Xbox 360 Ultimate at $499 is an HD-DVD player (yea, I own a $4000 HDTV) and a great video game system. The only thing missing is the simple controller to play the XBLA games.
        • Believe it or not, $500 is the most I'll spend on a console. And the PS3s lack of HDMI outputs on that price model kick it out of contention for me.

          Xbox 360 Ultimate at $499 is an HD-DVD player (yea, I own a $4000 HDTV) and a great video game system. The only thing missing is the simple controller to play the XBLA games.

          You do realize what you just said right?

          "I'll not buy a PS3 because for $500 I don't get an HDMI!"

          "I will pay $600 for a 360, which will get me HDMI and lacks only a simple XBLA controller -
    • "C'mon MS! Make a $499 "Ultimate" model that has the premium unit plus the HDDVD drive integrated."

      That'd be a complete change in philosophy for the 360, where nothing is integrated, at least not as much as you seem to want. If you want everything soldered into place, wait for the PS3, but we gamers who have no desire to either own HD movies or want the specter of a two-tiered game library on the horizon are happy with this arrangement.

      "I'll buy one now no questions asked."

      The million dollar question is if

  • Distant cousin?

    Props to MS for giving consumers a choice, definitely would like to see an all-in-one unit too though.

    Btw, this announcement slide is decidedly non-xtreme: http://i.n.com.com/i/ne/p/2006/xbox0217_550x413.jp g [com.com]

  • Meh (Score:2, Interesting)

    by pedropolis ( 928836 )
    So, $399.99 for a new 360 with HDMI output (needed for the ubershizzle HD-DVD) plus another, what, $199.99 for the HD-DVD player? Wow, comes to the same price as a PS3 - only that's an all-in-one system with complete compatability with both PS1 and PS2 games. If Sony takes a beating over that price point, then it's only fair to batter MS for arriving at the same price. Oh, and if that snazzy HD-DVD player costs more than $199.99, then it's game over man.
    • Thing is, even if you are right, at least the consumer has the option to buy a $399 System to play games or a $599 system to play games and movies. With a PS3, you don't have a choice. Period.
      • When has Sony ever been about choices? I used to play Star Wars Galaxies, but not anymore. Why? They completely trashed the game w/o asking the community (in addition to having lousy support). The Sony Rootkit debacle wasn't a choice either. So it doesn't surprise me that Sony is going to leverage their only "name" brand, PlayStation, and use it to prop up their Blue-Ray format. My point dealt soley with price. It's true you can get a cheaper X-Box 360, but it doesn't have HDMI outputs or the 20GB HD
    • "Wow, comes to the same price as a PS3"

      Yes it does. However, I don't see Sony letting me skip the $200 on their newfangled drive. At least MS has the sense to realize that not everyone is going to want an HD-DVD or BluRay drive right now. It's a sad sad day when Microsoft of all people is more in touch with what the consumers actually want and it seems to me that is the case here.

    • Re:Meh (Score:3, Insightful)

      by MHolmesIV ( 253236 )
      Aah, but you're counting wrong, see. For 10 million people out there (by November), the HD DVD addon will not cost them the price of the 360 + the addon, they already _have_ the 360. So which is easier, paying $600 over 2 years, or paying $600 all at once, for me, I could justify the $400 cost of the 360 last year, and I can easily justify the cost of a ~$200 HD DVD drive this year, but I could not justify the $600 cost of a PS3, it's just too much all at once.

      So for the millions of people who already have
      • For those 10 Million people, you'd still be paying $600 because you'd need the HDMI which your current Xbox360 doesn't have. Either that or you're doing the $500 model on PS3 which contrary to all the talk is a 100% functional option, unlike the $300 Xbox 360.
    • "So, $399.99 for a new 360 with HDMI output"

      All we have is unsubstatiated rumors at best that Microsoft will be releasing a new generation of 360s to offer HDMI output. Aside from the fact that it is a 180 from their current philosophy of making everything an add-on (including the HDD) instead of hardwiring things, these rumors can be either confirmed or denied very easily...

      Somebody has the pin-outs of the 360's multi-out port, or else nobody would be making a/v cables for it, right? Are there or are the

  • I love options (Score:3, Interesting)

    by The_Pariah ( 991496 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2006 @02:13PM (#15875473)
    Next gen games don't NEED higher capacity discs than DVD9 discs.

    Therefore, I LOVE the option of deciding if I _want_ the fancy movie player or _just_ the game console.

    Sony doesn't give me that option. I'm FORCED to purchase the integrated drive to play HD movies, although the games themselves don't require them.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Except for the fact that the 360 has already disproved that point.

      • Re:I love options (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        First off, your examples are stupid because no one is saying that DVD will be an appropriate format forever; but it is fair to say that DVD should be an appropriate format for the next 5 years. You see, if you take away High-Definition FMV sequences then there really is nothing that should take up all that much space; certainly models and textures are larger, but the PS2 didn't support any texture compression and most games were only on a single layered DVD or on a CD.

        Will there be multiple DVD games?

        Yes, b
        • No YOUR analysis is stupid. It's fair to say that DVD was an appropriate format for the last five years. You're suggesting that I forgoe cinematic quality film in a game to compensate for a lack of storage space. Why the fuck would you want a "cutting edge" system that is compromised from the get-go? Next-gen means next gen storage too, sucker.

          http://greggman.com/edit/editheadlines/2005-08-17. htm [greggman.com]

          Analysis:
          NES, SMS - carts
          SNES, Genesis - carts
          N64, Saturn, Playstation - carts, CD's
          Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox, Ga

  • right and wrong (Score:3, Insightful)

    by the computer guy nex ( 916959 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2006 @02:17PM (#15875502)
    "So, $399.99 for a new 360 with HDMI output (needed for the ubershizzle HD-DVD) plus another, what, $199.99 for the HD-DVD player? Wow, comes to the same price as a PS3 - only that's an all-in-one system with complete compatability with both PS1 and PS2 games. If Sony takes a beating over that price point, then it's only fair to batter MS for arriving at the same price. Oh, and if that snazzy HD-DVD player costs more than $199.99, then it's game over man."

    Yes, it does come to the same price as a PS3. Only one difference - most people could care less about HDDVD or BR and would rather just play games.

    The Blu-Ray drive does not fit a market. Gamers are usually younger and do not have the HD capabilities for the movies. Home theater enthusiasts with the proper setups will be buying a professional high definition player from a different vender. How many home theater enthusiasts out there use the crappy DVD player from an xbox or a ps2??
    • The Blu-Ray drive does not fit a market. Gamers are usually younger and do not have the HD capabilities for the movies.

      And will, over time, appreciate the extras in games that the greater amount of storage brings them. Market 1.

      Home theater enthusiasts with the proper setups will be buying a professional high definition player from a different vender.

      For $1k? Only the very upper crust. Many, many technically oriented people that are doing HD systems more mix and match "gehtto style" will be happy to use
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Ohhh they're clever... (Score:4, Funny)

    by GfxGeek ( 994243 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2006 @02:25PM (#15875575)
    Those marketing guys at MS are shrewd... they know full well that the World Record for staying awake during "The Phantom of the Opera" is 10 minutes. This reduced the chance of someone seeing a lockup to almost zero.
  • "All the audio and video processing is done inside the Xbox"

    I would expect the price on this would have to be farely reasonable, if not downright cheap, compared to the other HD DVD players.

  • SEGA (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Dosent anyone remember sega CD? Nintendo learned their lesson before they made the N64 DD I heard there was even talk of having one for the SNES. If MS wants to take over the living room they better not clutter it up with an add on HD-DVD drive.

    • Dosent anyone remember sega CD? Nintendo learned their lesson before they made the N64 DD I heard there was even talk of having one for the SNES. If MS wants to take over the living room they better not clutter it up with an add on HD-DVD drive.

      If MS wants to take over the living room, they will need either an HD-DVD or Blu Ray player.

      And some people do allocate extra space for future purchases. My entertainment system holds my PS2, my Gamecube, my DVD player, my Famicon knock-off, and has room left ove

    • Hmm . . . now I'm not usually one to complain about moderation, but how did this AC get modded insightful when he just said the same thing that I did?
    • I heard there was even talk of having one for the SNES

      There was. You might know it better as the Sony Playstation. Made a fortune, as all-in-one devices *always* win out in the console world.

      I think Sony may be trying to prove that idiom wrong this time around, however... :)

    • Not the same thing (Score:3, Insightful)

      by xswl0931 ( 562013 )
      MS has learned the lesson and the difference is that this HD-DVD add-on is ONLY for movies. Games will not play on it. This means that developers won't be creating different games if you have the HD-DVD add-on or not.
  • Kind of destroys the clean lines of the XBox 360 itself, as well as making it decidedly harder to move around casually. Inside would have been much better.

  • seem to forget.. (Score:1, Insightful)

    by zeeroj ( 966489 )
    360 HD-DVD..doesn't play games, people. This add-on only allows videoplayback.

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