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Too Much Hyper, Not Enough Fighting 59

Posted by Zonk
from the is-that-all-you've-got dept.
Jason Booth takes a look at the recently released Street Fighter II: Hyper Fighting, on Xbox Live. A highly anticipated title, Mr. Booth lays out why Capcom has fallen short of the high expectations gamers had for the title. From the article: "Now, where the game really falls down is online. It's bad enough playing SF2 on the 360 controller, but with lag it's nearly impossible. The funny thing is, the lag really isn't that bad from a technical standpoint. Most matches feel as if I'm getting a reasonable ping time and response. But SF2 turbo is a fast game, and at that speed, you just can't play, and can't compensate enough for the lag. If you press an attack button while leaving the ground on a jump, it'll probably go off as its landing."
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Too Much Hyper, Not Enough Fighting

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  • by paradigmdream (915171) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:31PM (#15842485) Homepage
    why do they keep making street fighter 2 games? shouldn't the number go up once in a while?
    • I think they went to III once, but everyone hated the change to the Roman Numerals.
    • by rabbot (740825)
      I'm sure it's because this isn't a new game. just a port of sf 2 hyper fighting. No need to give it a new name.
    • why do they keep making street fighter 2 games?

      For the same reason Nintendo re-releases the original Super Mario Bros. on the Super NES (as Super Mario All-Stars), on the Game Boy Color (Super Mario Bros. Deluxe) and on the forthcoming Wii Virtual Console. This product from Capcom is a port of Street Fighter II Turbo, as seen on the Super NES and Sega Genesis (the latter under the name Street Fighter II Special Championship Edition).

      • by Anonymous Coward
        hmm... in the arcade, Champion, Turbo, and Hyper Fighting were different games.
        • in the arcade, Champion, Turbo, and Hyper Fighting were different games.

          The title screen of the copy of Street Fighter II Turbo for Super NES that I rented said "Hyper Fighting" where the original said "The World Warrior". Wikipedia backs me up [wikipedia.org]. Perhaps you're thinking of the fact that the word Turbo was left out of the arcade game's title in some markets.

          • The title screen of the copy of Street Fighter II Turbo for Super NES that I rented said "Hyper Fighting" where the original said "The World Warrior". Wikipedia backs me up. Perhaps you're thinking of the fact that the word Turbo was left out of the arcade game's title in some markets.

            That's because SFII:Turbo -was- Hyper Fighting:

            KLOV Link [klov.com]

            SFII (the original, where only one person could use one character) was "The World Warrior"
            then came Champion Edition where 2 people could use the same person, then came S
      • by Sycraft-fu (314770) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @04:30PM (#15842911)
        There was Street Fighter, and then Street Fighter 2. Since then, well it's never really incremented. After SF2 was SF2: Champion Edition, and SF2: Hyper Fighting. Then then moved to the CPS-2 hardware with Super Street Fighter 2: The New Challengers, then SSF2 Turbo. After that was NOT SF3, but rather Street Fighter Alpha. Street Fighter 3 finally did come in 1997, after 3 Alpha games.

        I think he's just genreally giving Capcom shit for their odd naming scheme.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Hyper fighting was/is just another edition of SF2. It was in the arcades a longass time ago. If I remember correctly, it went like this:

      SF2 World Warrior
      SF2 Championship Edition
      SF2 Hyper Fighting
      Super SF2
      Super SF2 Turbo

      There was a Street Fighter 3 that was, in my opinion, quite nice. The animation was extremely impressive, and the game felt prety solid overall.
      • You forgot the original Street Fighter.

        It was
        Street Fighter
        Street Fighter II
        Street Fighter II Champion Edition
        Street Fighter II Turbo
        Super Street Fighter II
        Super Street Fighter II Turbo
        Street Fighter Alpha
        Street Fighter Alpha 2
        Street Fighter Alpha 3

        I'm going to stop there because the Street Fighter III series never held my interest.

        LK
        • Guess I'll tack on Three.. Street Fighter Street Fighter II Street Fighter II Champion Edition Street Fighter II Turbo Super Street Fighter II Super Street Fighter II Turbo Street Fighter Alpha Street Fighter Alpha 2 Street Fighter Alpha 3 Street Fighter 3 New Generation Street Fighter 3 Double Impact Street Fighter 3 Third Strike
    • why do they keep making street fighter 2 games? shouldn't the number go up once in a while?

      I suppose they continue to make them because we continue to buy them. There has been Street Fighter 3 and the Alpha series.

    • why do they keep making street fighter 2 games? shouldn't the number go up once in a while?

      Well they also -could- have gone with SFIII, but that game was terrible, and SFII: The New Warriors didn't really add anything... IMO SFII: Hyper Fighting was probably the most balanced version of the game. That's probably why they're using II instead of any of the newer versions of the game... that and it's probably a much smaller game, so it'd be more suitable for their online arcade or whatever...
    • by milkman_matt (593465) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @06:12PM (#15843445)
      Oh, and also a list of the games that they did have: (from KLOV)

      You're right, though, they did pretty much try to milk the II for all it was worth, which it looks like that was the best play, because everything -after- SFII just plain sucked.

      Legacy

            1. Street Fighter
            2. Street Fighter II - The World Warrior
            3. Street Fighter II' - Champion Edition
            4. Street Fighter II' Turbo* - Hyper Fighting
            5. Super Street Fighter II - The New Challengers
            6. Super Street Fighter II Turbo
            7. Street Fighter: The Movie
            8. Street Fighter Alpha: Warriors' Dreams
            9. Street Fighter EX
          10. Street Fighter EX Plus
          11. Street Fighter Alpha 2
          12. Street Fighter EX 2
          13. Street Fighter III: New Generation
          14. Street Fighter III 2nd Impact - Giant Attack
          15. Street Fighter Alpha 3
          16. Street Fighter III 3rd Strike - Fight For The Future

      * Turbo added by me, looks like KLOV was missing that part, but I have the machine, and it does in fact call it SFII Turbo: Hyper Fighting.
      • You might want to nix the Movie and the EX games if you're strictly counting games by Capcom. AFAIK, the two games were done outside of Capcom (the EX Series having been done by ARIKA). Also, you're missing Street Fighter EX III, since you're counting the EX Series (though, I'm not sure if that one saw an Arcade release, which I don't think it did).

        And might as well add X-Men Vs. Street Fighter and Street Fighter 2097 for NES if you want to be really complete about it (that and tons of Alpha compilations
        • Well, it was from the KLOV listing, so it's not always going to be 100% accurate by everybody's standards, but I believe SFII (movie) would count since it's the same characters, with terrible Pit Fighter graphics (and van damme) As for EXIII, if it didn't make it into the arcade, that'd be why it wouldn't be listed, they seem to only list arcade games... As for the "Vs." games, those are just a bastardized version... I think the list is pretty thorough, aside maybe from the EXIII you mentioned.
      • It's really too bad that Capcom has the habit of releasing games before they're done. Street Fighter Alpha was derided as being sloppy and unbalanced, with unfinished art requirements and not enough balancing time. But Street Fighter Alpha 2 was completely solid, and Alpha 3 was one of the best in the series. Likewise SFIII was an unfinished mess the first revision, but III 2 was actually good and III 3 was probably the most technical fighter released in years.

      • because everything -after- SFII just plain sucked.

        Heh, each to their own. I think the Street Fighter Alpha games are awesome, and I still play (by emulation) SFA3 several times a day. It's bloody addictive. :-)

        What I'm more interested in is why they're releasing a game that was also released on the ***SNES*** for the Xbox. I didn't think they did that kind of thing. It will be Donkey Kong next.
    • Silly rabbit, that's not Streetfighter 2, that's Streetfigher 11 =D
    • Street fighter II, was so wildly popular that the sequel became a brand, that is why capcom did not wanted to drop the II and move to three, but instead just keept adding ": [what ever]" in order to differenciate titles, that is why people keep buying all those, because thinking of Street Fighter II, bring all of those memories, and people while getting something new, still want that original experience somehow.
  • by kid_oliva (899189) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:39PM (#15842543) Homepage
    Although it has gotten better, lag is still an issue with Xbox Live. More than likely what they are doing with this game is the same thing they do with Halo2 on live. They set one of the people as host and the only thing the server does is game match. This can cause all sorts of issues, especially in Halo2 where the engine has some network code issues. You have the annoying button lapse to hits not registring at all. Usually, however the host has the advantage. They move a little quicker, hit a little harder, and can take more damage. Centralizing everything is more expensive, but will negate host issues and you could also run programs like punk buster to keep people from cheating. That's my $0.02.
    • Actually a peer-to-peer model is better than a centralized network for fighting games where frames need to be synced between two client boxes. If they added a centralized host information would just have to travel and be processed at another node, which would actually increase the latency of the packets traveling between the two Xbox 360's.

      A centralized server does make a lot of sense when the game has more than two players though, since all the server processing can be down by the server box which leaves
      • Problem is fighting games require absolute frame accuracy or they desync. Scenario: Player 1 and 2 press attack at the same time. The attack would hit at the same frame. Due to lag each player sees his opponent start with the attack one frame later so they hit and their opponent doesn't. How do you correct that? You'd have to declare one player's game data as correct to solve that.
  • SFIIHF Is Good (Score:5, Interesting)

    by robbway (200983) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:42PM (#15842576) Journal
    I played SFIIHF on the xbox360 last night. I was on the east coast vs. someone on the west coast. No noticeable lag. However, an earlier bout of unknown distance had a couple of choppy animations. It was a light night after 1am EDT, though. It's probably busier around 9pm EDT.

    The arcade game is perfect. It plays at the same speed as Hyper Fighting. The controls were very responsive when I used the analog stick. You can set the buttons anyway you like. I think negative reviews on the controller are based on personal preference. You may find some characters easier with the D-Pad, and some easier to control with the analog.

    Live Arcade has been receiving way too much non-constructive negative feedback. It really seems like a bashing! Just remember, this is an 80s game!
    • Re:SFIIHF Is Good (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Street Fighter II originally came out in 1991, Hyper Fighting in late 1992. They're not 80s games, but your point stands.
      • You're all correct, my memory is crap. I got the price of the SNES game confused with the year of release. Yes, on initial release, it was $80!
    • by poot_rootbeer (188613) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @04:41PM (#15842988)
      Just remember, this is an 80s game!

      An 80s game... that was first released in 1991?

      I'm shouryuken find a better way to describe the game's vintage than that.
    • 80's game?!? Ken would crouching strong you in the nuts for that one. ;)

      The original SF did appear in 87, but Hyper fighting is literally I, II, IICh, editions away.

    • The D-pads on both of my 360 wireless controllers work so badly that one might call them defective. Even navigating menus with them is hard; they frequently don't respond even when pressed all the way to hitting the plastic. I believe there has been a quality control issue with the wireless controller D-pads, and this is the reason for some of the bad reviews. Many people probably didn't notice the D-pad problems before because few games use it much. As soon as I can find a Torx T9 security driver (what
  • by elrous0 (869638) * on Thursday August 03, 2006 @04:08PM (#15842763)
    I'm aging. I'm nostalgic for the game I used to rock at. Why can't they just remake that game exactly the way it was when I was in high school, so I can pretend I'm still cool? They must have sped it up, because surely my aging reflexes haven't gotten any slower. It must be lag that's letting all these other players kick my ass. Wah! Wah!! Wah!!!!

    -Eric

    • Highest level SF play requires frame accurate timing. 17ms per frame, and humans are easily capable of timing short intervals to this accuracy, (do not confuse timing accuracy with reaction time (which is always at least 100ms), eg. DDR marvelous timing is also single frame, and many people can consistently hit that accuracy). Pings of 17ms over the internet are very rare. What's worse, the lag is inconsistent, so it's impossible to compensate for it accurately.
      • So then the question becomes... what the hell did he expect? That the 360 version would magically transport both players to the same 1988 arcade when you hit "join game?"

        I mean, if the game's doing the best it possibly can to compensate for lag, then without re-wiring the entire Internet, it's a little stupid to hold that against it when you're reviewing it.
        • So then the question becomes... what the hell did he expect? That the 360 version would magically transport both players to the same 1988 arcade when you hit "join game?"

          Maybe if you played Street Fighter... Street Fighter II is from the nineties.

      • The length of a "frame" in network play depends on the connection latency. The higher the latency, the longer the frame. When deciding the length of a frame you can use connection statistics to determine a reasonable expected worst case situation to compensate for most types of lag you'd see in an online connection.

        It isn't perfect mind you, but they did an excellent job all things considered.
    • I've sparred with Booth in Turbo recently. His reflexes are still pretty darned sharp... he never stopped playing. I'd consider myself a top 1% player, but Booth is probably still one of the top 100 in the country.

      We've nitpicked versions of Street Fighter 2 Turbo (or Hyper Fighting, or Turbo Hyper Fighting, or whatever you want to call it) in the past... comparing Turbo Duo / SNES / Genesis revs with the arcade, pads vs sticks, etc. This minutiae tuning is exactly the sort of thing he lives for in the g
  • by bunions (970377) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @04:22PM (#15842863)
    You can feel 50ms when you're playing fighting games. If the lag was constant, maybe it'd be different, but it never is.
  • I played this game on my lunch break yesterday (Wed, the release day) with absolutely no lag, and I'm a pretty seasoned SF2 player. I would have noticed lag. 5 hours later during dinnertime, I played again for about 2 hours online with absolutely no lag against other people.

    I had a great time. My only complaint was joining a custom match because by the time the results hit the screen, the player was usually unavailable (i.e. started a match). I just wanted to chime in and say that the lag is subjective,
    • "Seasoned" player? How did you place in tournaments? If you didn't notice lag, then I suspect you never played at this level at all.
      • Perhaps seasoned isn't the right word to use, but I've played the game since it was in a cabinet and nearly every version on various home consoles. My point was I've played the game a long time and understand the mechanics, priorities, and timing of the characters and moves. I'm not a frame-counter or a superfreak at the game, but I'd rate myself well above average player. You're right, I'm not all into the top-tier freak-a-thon, but those sort of people should know better in the first place that playing
  • try out the offline mode and then online. It'll immediately feel sluggish even aginast players with full green bars. I read somewhere that we can avoid connection problems by assigning a static IP Address and doing something to DMOZ. Anyone has info on it?
    • If you're talking about assigning your static IP to DMZ then don't expect anti-lag miracles. This just means that you are telling your router not to analyze data that is sent to that IP address. This simply forwards the packets and saves a tiny amount of CPU time. Don't expect to see ping time improvements of more than 4ms, and even that is generous.
  • Is it better or worse than using a rom of SFII + kaillera compatible emulator or not?
  • by cspariah (958194) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @08:17PM (#15843943)
    One of my greatest achievements in arcade gaming is that I managed to take one round -- not a full match, just a round -- from Jason Booth in SF2 Turbo when we were both at Turbine. Of course, he was only using one button -- light kick. When he switched to light punch, I was done.
  • by NekoXP (67564)
    Lag, yes. Delayed reaction to controller input, maybe.

    PING TIME AND RESPONSE????

    You people seriously need to get off the computers once in a while and stop mixing your words around like you know something.

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