Software Giants Seek Friends Among Hackers 95
Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "Big tech companies are engaging in a full charm offensive at the Black Hat hacker conference as they seek to convince hackers and security researchers to work with, not against, them, the Wall Street Journal reports. Among those being courted: HD Moore. The suitor is his erstwhile foe, Microsoft. From the article: 'Microsoft plans to wine and dine Mr. Moore at a party at the fancy Palms Hotel. A Microsoft security executive wants to meet with him to discuss his latest work. And earlier this year, the Redmond, Wash., company invited him to speak at a Microsoft-sponsored conference on security. "There were a few tense silences," says Mr. Moore, 24 years old, who lives in Austin, Texas. But he says the meetings put a human face on a company he once saw as impenetrable. "You're less willing to publicly humiliate someone you know in real life," he says.'"
how it went down (Score:5, Funny)
*they hug* Moore: "Well, I must be going"
*he leaves*
Microsoft: "...wait a minute... HE STOLE OUR WALLETS!"
Re:how it went down (Score:3, Funny)
Re:how it went down (Score:4, Funny)
Re:how it went down (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:how it went down (Score:2)
Or implant nanoprobes.
Part of the Microsoft mantra . . . (Score:5, Funny)
Extend . . .
(wait for it) . . .
Extinguish!
"Hi! I'm Clippy! I see you're exploiting loopholes in Windows. Would you like to:
"* Tell your zombies to phone home for a head count
"* Plant a malicious WMF at a popular web site to get more zombies
"* Do some illegal file sharing (since all file sharers are black hats)
"* I'm not a script kiddie and don't need any help
" (CANCEL) (OKAY)"
Moral of the story - work against MSFT. (Score:1, Interesting)
They bought all the Linux anti-virus companies out there. Groove used BDB (from sleepycat now Oracle), and they bought them. Sun's their best buddy in the SCO affair.
And in our company, they pay us to port our stuff from competing platforms to theirs.
If only they treated their partners as well as their enemies, perhaps Micrsoft partner companies would be doing better. Instead they like competing with partners and befriending their enemies.
Re:how it went down (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:how it went down (Score:2)
What dog drives across the fish turtle pond, you say?
Friends among Hackers or Hens among FRACKERS? (that was a Spoonerism...)
They don't deserve HACKERS until the asshole businesses and advertiser learn to distinguish between HACKERS and CRACKERS and get over the "hidden" dislike of the second term. I'm sure if MOOKERS were the good guys and ROOKERS were the bad buys, the marketers and tech media would have NO problem whatsoever using "ROOKERS", despite the sexual connotation.
Re:how it went down (Score:1)
The halibut bathes at noon except on Tuesdays.
I didn't meet them... (Score:3, Funny)
Does that mean I should try harder until they buy me dinner?
Re:I didn't meet them... (Score:2)
Re:I didn't meet them... (Score:2, Funny)
Public humiliation (Score:2)
What it means is Dear Aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all.
Re:I didn't meet them... (Score:2)
They know our weakness (Score:2)
It's going to take more than just dinner (Score:1)
Re:It's going to take more than just dinner (Score:1)
Re:It's going to take more than just dinner (Score:2)
What??? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What??? (Score:3, Funny)
Courtship from microsoft would certainly cause me to go soft pretty quickly.
Re:What??? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:What??? (Score:1)
Re:What??? (Score:2)
Re:What??? (Score:1)
Re:What??? (Score:5, Funny)
Not true. Black hats do anything they want to entertain themselves, with no regard to the law. They'd gladly take jobs doing what they do for fun. They're not like evil villains in the movies, who do bad things because they're bad people deep down inside, and need a good-looking hero to go kill them.
Re:What??? (Score:1)
Re:What??? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:What??? (Score:2)
Public Humiliation? (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft is quite [google.com] capable [zdnet.com.au] of this [live.com] all by themselves [youtube.com].
sigh...
Just like Brutus was less likely to hurt Caesar (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Just like Brutus was less likely to hurt Caesar (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Just like Brutus was less likely to hurt Caesar (Score:2)
They finally did this (Score:2, Informative)
Do you remember Mitnic?
(Source: Wikipedia)
Re:They finally did this (Score:3, Insightful)
That prick should go out and contribute something of meaning to society. I mean, other than his contempt for "the man."
Tom
Re:They finally did this (Score:2)
Mitnick was held in prison with murders and psychopaths for four years eight months in solitary until he 'confessed'. The only people doing the screwing were journalist John Markoff and Tsutomu Shimomura. It was Markoffs sensationalist articles that caused Mitnick much noterity. What Markoff never told him was he was both working with Shimomura and also feeding information to the FBI. At the same time cultivating a friendship with Mitni
Re:They finally did this (Score:2)
He offers security consulting services
Mitnick was hacker, now offering security...???!
Translating it into MS case....???!
They screwed everybody, now they are offering screwing-on-demand?
Does that sound right?
Making a big deal out of it (Score:5, Insightful)
It's fucking dinner.
Wait till they offer him a grant, job or other swag to be impressed. If they gave him a grant to bash the shit out of Windows that'd be impressive. A $50 dinner on the strip is not (though free eats is good)
Tom
Re:Making a big deal out of it - OT (Score:1)
Re:Making a big deal out of it - OT (Score:2)
Re:Making a big deal out of it (Score:2)
Re:Making a big deal out of it (Score:2)
The point is, not all dinners are formal meetings. I seriously doubt the CRA or DoD or the other half dozen groups I've gone out with for dinner or whatever were on official business. Hell, I work at AMD. Doesn't mean everyone I go out to dinner with is taking part in an official AMD sanctioned meeting. Means I work at AMD and I decided to buy dinner for a friend. Big deal.
My point was that whi
Re:Making a big deal out of it (Score:1)
Re:Making a big deal out of it (Score:2)
Tom
Re:Making a big deal out of it (Score:3, Interesting)
Hey, even better, if you could get this guy on-side you could turn him around and point him at other peoples' products. Then he wouldn't even be a liability - he'd be an asset!
Oh yes.
Time for a Quote (Score:3, Interesting)
Abraham Lincoln
Re:Time for a Quote (Score:5, Funny)
If that doesn't work, shoot them in the back of the head.
J.W. Booth
You are? (Score:2)
Unless they're someone who really deserves it, in which case, I find it easier.
Never confuse a corporation with a human being (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with this is that it's an illusion.
Corporations are composed of not just a single person, but of many people, each of whom has an agenda. Most of those people tend to limit their thoughts about the decisions they make on behalf of the company to the benefits that decision may bring to the corporation and to themselves, and perhaps to the possible harm the benefits may bring to the corporation and to themselves. The last thing to enter their mind, in general, is the impact the decision may have on individuals outside the corporation. The more conscientious types may consider that, but such people appear to be rare, and such people in positions of great influence within a corporation appear to be especially rare.
So while this person may being to believe that the corporation he's dealing with is somehow now more "human" as a result of his dealings with specific individuals, he's making quite a few bad assumptions, not the least of which is that the people he's dealing with have a large amount of influence over the actions of the corporation. That's almost certainly not the case, and yet the actual "humanity" of the corporation depends on it.
The bottom line is that this guy (Moore) isn't nearly cynical enough, and is likely to get burned.
The very purpose and nature of the corporation, to shield the corporation's stakeholders from the consequences of the corporation's actions, are exactly why the corporation can never be "human" in any meaningful way, except perhaps in a psychopathic sense. The numerous experiments (e.g., those involving simulated torture, imprisonment, etc.) that have been done in which the individual is shielded from the consequences of his actions are proof of how much of a person's humanity is lost from that. The corporation is a formal embodiment of that separation. In light of said experiments, the consequences should be obvious, and the typical behaviour of corporations is further proof.
Re:Never confuse a corporation with a human being (Score:2)
You assume the writeup is Moore's actual thoughts on the matter. It very well could simply be the facade he wishes to present to Microsoft.
Re:Never confuse a corporation with a human being (Score:1)
Translation (Score:5, Insightful)
In other words, "Shut the fuck up about all of the stuff you find until we quietly issue a patch. If we get around to it. Oh, and here's an NDA that gives us your nads if you talk in your sleep."
Re:Translation (Score:2)
So... tell us first, STFU & we're going to blame you if you open your t
And then one day..... (Score:4, Funny)
The assassin approaches the body and Mr. Moore. With a small shoulder radio he signals the job is complete.
"That's right. We got him. You shouldn't have to worry about Michael Moore any more" the assassin gloats.
"What?!" the voice on the line exclaims.
"I said I tagged that fat ass. He's dead. Let's see him make another inflamatory documentary now!"
"You killed MICHAEL Moore? Aw, crap...."
Re:And then one day..... (Score:1)
Well, how's that taste, coward?
It's about time (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It's about time (Score:1)
Too bad your headtop set wasn't set to receive the from the executives on the same wavelength.*
*Unless said executives include Rob Glaser, Larry Ellison, or Jonathan Schwartz
Re:It's about time (Score:1)
I was swapping the 0-day at 2400 baud. I think that I'm entitled to a regression to l4m3n3ss phr0m tym3 t3w tym3. =)~
This is bound to happen (Score:1)
Re:This is bound to happen (Score:2)
If you can't make something better, buy out the opposition and bury their product.
A bad match... (Score:2)
The problem with a collaboration such as this is Microsoft won't really be serious about it. If Moore tells Microsoft the real facts about Microsoft security and what they will likely need to do about it, in that truth are mostly things Microsoft really doesn't want to hear and they will just go into denial about it. Moore will end up frustrated, his contributions falling on deaf ears...
On the other hand, in the meantime Microsoft will have distracted a potential foe, and Moore will have made some $$$, b
In the words of Admiral Ackbar (Score:3, Funny)
Re:In the words of Admiral Ackbar (Score:1)
Lando: "Yes I said closer! Get as close as you can, and engage those Star Destroyers at point-blank range!!"
Ackbar: "At that close range we won't last long against those Star Destroyers."
Lando: "We'll last longer than we will against that Death Star, and we might just take a few of them with us!"
Ethanol (Score:2)
Re:Ethanol (Score:1)
But what if you'd rather not have Indian food?
That's Why They Do This (Score:1, Troll)
Sucker.
Try me. I'd happily humiliate Microsoft at every opportunity even if I was sleeping with Melinda.
Re:That's Why They Do This (Score:2)
If this guy really is a black hat ... (Score:2)
Permanently.
Unlimited free porn accounts.. (Score:1)
Which companies? (Score:2)
Oracle has one of the worst records on fixing vulnerabilities, running up to a year. I'm too lazy to google up the specific vulnerabilities.
Cisco's record is worse [slashdot.org]. I coudn't find the article I was looking for, but there was a recent case (in the last year IIRC) where an security researcher in a South American country notified cisco of an issue. After a period of time, he decided to go public (hazy on the details) and cisco did everything they could to shu
May be then, they should treat him better (Score:2)
Mental image (Score:1)
Just wait for The Matrixoft (Score:3, Funny)