Where the Highest Paying Tech Jobs Are 574
prostoalex writes "Where would you look for a high-paying tech job? If your answer is Silicon Valley or Research Triangle, Forbes magazine suggests some other destinations. When you take the cost of living and consider the net pay adjusted for that cost, places like Montgomery, Ala., Idaho Falls, Idaho, and Fort Smith, Ark. suddenly seem quite attractive."
What about... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What about... (Score:4, Insightful)
I missed out (Score:4, Funny)
The defective kid rate is 3%. The normal defective kid rate is 1.5%. Not good, but not hopeless either.
You can keep property in the family this way. You already know the in-laws. There are fewer screwy traditions to deal with, since you already share some grandparents. In general, bad surprises are unlikely.
Re:What about... (Score:2)
Cost of living in AL is CHEAP! (Score:5, Informative)
Huntsville is a very high tech city, it has the 2nd largest research center in the US.
Brick houses (new) for under $100 a square foot. A brand new 4 bedroom, 3 bath 2500 square foot brick rambler on 1/3 of an acre in a new neighborhood for $240K. And it's not ramshackle construction.
Overall, AL has the lowest taxes in the US. Good schools, thanks to NASA and the rocket scientists at the Redstone Arsenal.
Insurance is a fraction of what I used to pay. Property taxes are less than 1/2 what I used to pay in a top 10 city for a house half that size. Electricity is cheap, thanks to the Tennessee Valley Authority. Gas is about the same as anywhere else, but there's no commute! No traffic! No crime! Do you know why there's no crime? Most of these people go to church! They have morals! It's not like NY City or Chicago, where you have to have Police on every street corner to keep the peace.
On top of all this, I'm making more than I was in the big city! It is 3 hours to Atlanta, 5 hours to the Gulf Coast. 90 minutes to Nashville, Birmingham, or Chattanooga. 3 hours to Memphis. It's 4 hours to the Smoky Mountains.
Winters are really mild, summers can get hot, but aren't as bad as Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, or Florida. It's not as humid as Florida or the other neighboring states. It's not as dry, or as hot, or as polluted as Southern California or Phoenix.
The only bad thing... no Pro sports of any type unless you like the Atlanta teams.
Huntsville, AL (Score:5, Informative)
Read what the AC said in this post. I'd write everything he said but I'm lazy. I'm an engineer, I work on Redstone Arsenal here in Huntsville, AL. Housing is cheap. Taxes are cheap. Utilities are cheap. While I was in college (I went to UAH [uah.edu]) I was paying $350 a month for a 1-bedroom apartment. My wife and I just purchased a brand new brick home for $80 a square foot. Other homes in town, new, brick are going for $51 by reputable builders. My utilities bill is averaging $150 a month, including getting the lawn started (lots of water) and kids. Summers are freaking hot, being from Wisconsin, but the air conditioning is good and the house is well-insulated. Get a DirecTV so you can watch "real" sports
Huntsville has more PhD's per square mile than anywhere in the world, except Silcon Valley. Second biggest research park in the US, fourth in the world. Tons of R&D goes on here, both NASA and all aspects of Defense, biotech, etc. Benefits for most companies that I've seen are exceptional and educations (masters, PhD's) are admired. Most companies will put you through school if you want them.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
quality of life. (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of course will take that and run off spouting racism,bigotry, or whatnot. The simple fact is that at the end of the day many aspire to nothing more than being away from it all. Stand alone housing and visual separation from the "business world - read: minimarts/gas stations/grocery stores" is key to the happiness of many. Sure we want them to still be convienent and a short hop in the car isn't an impediment.
I'm even moving further out simply because where I bought has changed so much in 9 years that its no longer the area I desired to live in. Lots of good people are here but the little businesses have creeped down the road to where its no longer "open".
As for your "pay and arm and a leg to massively pollute". Yeah, whatever. Three dollar, heck even 5 dollar a gallon gas isn't going to change my behaviour and I doubt that it will change that of others who live where I do. Cars are far better today than ever and that simpleton slight of yours is just silly. If I want massive pollution I will go to the big city with its public transportation because even there in the land of so called "enlightened" thinking a great many of them seem to not use that very public transportation they deem "good for others". I can go see the trash piled in alleys and cigarette butts lining the sidewalk. Oh yeah, massively pollute. Cities have no ground to stand on.
Re:quality of life. (Score:4, Insightful)
Now about cities. Don't think of a city as a cesspool of garbage (I lived in NY for awhile, I know it can be). Think of a city as giving citizens better energy eficiency per person. For instance, when you heat your house, even if it's well insulated, heat will leak out. Multiply that by the number of people on your block and you get quite a bit of wasted heat per person. Now imagine an apartment building, which differs from a house in that when heat escapes it doesn't all go to waste, much of it will drift up into the upper levels, providing more heat to the unit above, allowing persons on upper levels to turn down their furnace.
The amount of energy you or I waste per person may be minimal, but when you think about how all that adds up the argument that living in less populated areas is more eco-friendly becomes less plausable. We might *feel* closer to the earth with nobody else around, but we increase our impact.
Re:quality of life. (Score:3, Informative)
Essentially, the "sprawlers" are subsidized by the people who stay in the cities or existing suburbs.
The sad fact is that urban sprawl is unsustainable. N
Re:quality of life. (Score:3, Insightful)
Most of the spawler's leeching will be done off of future generations. Future generations will inherit McMansion subdivisions instead of rich farmlands, a road system that costs a huge amount to maintain, little low cost mass transit (like European trains), a crushing national debt , and soaring energy costs.
To repeat the parents point: "urban sprawl is unsustainable". There will come a point to there are simply not enough tanker trucks (and petrol to fill them) to meet the energy demands of th
Re:Huntsville, AL (Score:3, Interesting)
Even once you factor in the cost of vehicles, it's still cheaper where I live then in Silicon Valley. I use a tank of gas a week ($40) to get to work and errands. Insurance
Re:Huntsville, AL (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not Entirely (Score:4, Insightful)
It matters if you kids go to the same school, and they start trying to push ID. Or ban alcohol sales on Sunday. Or prohibit just about anything else they find 'unethical.'
Re:Huntsville, AL (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Huntsville, AL (Score:3, Insightful)
Most people in Spain do *not* go to the church, even if they say they are catholic. Less in Barcelona (there are other things to do). Much less the ones taking your backpack (I don't think they go to the mosque, either).
This does not mean that high church attendance implies less crime, only that you don't know what you are saying.
Re:Cost of living in AL is CHEAP! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cost of living in AL is CHEAP! (Score:3, Insightful)
Most spanish people go to church at well, try to lose the sight of your backpack for a second in Barcelona, you'd be surprised
I think it's down to the people themselves, not where they go or what absurd religion they believe in. AL has nice and smart people, the weather is too iffy for the `bad people`. They prefer Florida (godspeed and stay there...)
Re:Cost of living in AL is CHEAP! (Score:5, Funny)
Damn. I knew there was some reason not to move there after all. Thanks for pointing that out.
Re:Cost of living in AL is CHEAP! (Score:3, Insightful)
There is absolutely no way that the relationship between morals and church-going is causative and it is contentious whether it even has a correlative effect. Please stop propagating the myth that religion makes people better, it doesn't. This has been proved historically time and time again and continues to be pr
Re:Cost of living in AL is CHEAP! (Score:3, Funny)
1. Find place with low crime rate (so relaxed police)
2. Go on a crime spreee.
3. ???
4. Profit
You just commpleted step 1.
Re:Cost of living in AL is CHEAP! (Score:5, Informative)
$4k/month would be difficult to survive comfortably on in NYC or San Francisco where taxes eat a good $1250-$1500, rent starts at $1000+ (for your own place in a dive), and utilities/regular bills would take another $200-300 (again in your own place). A decent cheap lunch is $7-10 or so in Manhatten. A beer is usually starts at $5.
$4k/month doesn't go very far in a large US city (LA, DC, Chicago) where taxes are a hair lower (say $1000-$1250 you can rent places for $750 and up (these won't be nice but they will be ok) and bills are again $250+/-50. Decent lunch is $6-10 depending on how adventurous you are. Beers in a nice place are $4-5.
$4k/month is a kings ransom in a the rural west or south (if you can find a job). Taxes will still eat $1000 or so, but there you can rent a nice 1 bedroom for under $500, a good cheap lunch will run $5-$6 and beers top out at $3.
$4k a month would be a very good salary for a young professional there. Asr as fun money goes you'd have more than you would making $6k in one of the bigger cities, but there won't be as many young people in the smaller areas (because they weren't smart enough to look at cost of living when they got that job offer for $5k/mo.
Re:What about... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What about... (Score:4, Informative)
That being said, I enjoy the ~$80/mo home utility bills (That's all total water, sewage, electric and gas.), ~$2.75/gal gasoline, 5% sales tax, skiing (water in the summer, snow in the winter although since I took out 3 of 4 ligaments in my leg last season I like that one less.), hiking, and boating.
If only they would raise the takes to fund a fence to keep the rest of you out.
Re:What about... (Score:3, Interesting)
cost of living. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:cost of living. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:cost of living. (Score:2)
Not just a bigger house, but servants too. Maid, chef, gardner, driver. Having people do all the crap work for you makes life really nice.
Plus, Indians are the only culture to have figured out how to make vegetarian food taste good, you'll eat healthier (not that you have to stick to vegetables or anything, just that blandness will no longer be a motivation to avoid the veg
Re:cost of living. (Score:2)
Sure you can probably afford a six bedroom house with staff on a programmers salary, but you wont be able to afford a nice car or a plasma tv.
Re:cost of living. (Score:2)
Re:cost of living. (Score:5, Interesting)
It's possible to have a very high standard of living for less money in these countries. And if your material needs are not great, you can live incredibly cheaply, save up a bunch of money and retire early.
The other thing is that, depending on how you work it, you might not be taking a cut in pay at all. All many of us need is to be at the one end of a wire. These countries have internet infrastructure, at least in the bigger towns and cities. Last time I was in Mexico, I met two people that were living there and making a living this way. One was a daytrader (remember those?) and the other had a web development company he had basically started in the U.S. When he moved to Mexico, his clients hardly noticed. He's making even more money now because he's found a lot of local talented designers and coders that work for lower pay, but he's still getting paid the same. And because he pays at the upper end of the prevailing local wage, his workers love him.
Moreover, he told me that because he lives in Mexico, he's much less likely to have to go to a day long meeting to discuss what exact shade of green should be used to maximize the branding of a particular website. Clients are less likely to fly him in to discuss trivial shit. Or they fly out to him because it's an excuse to visit Mexico.
Anyway, if you can work at the end of a wire, seriously consider some of the developing nations. I can't guarantee that you'll prosper, but I can guarantee you'll have a very interesting time.
I'm in Vietnam (Score:5, Insightful)
Well that's the time here as I post this. Anyway, it's very interesting living in Ho Chi Min (rated the #12th best major city in the world to live in and the best in Asia)*. I've got to say that, in a country that has a per capita GDP less than a tenth that of the United States a dollar goes a long way.
The key is how to make it. If you can make it by working for a major foreign corporation here (read: oil company) and get a Western salary, you will live like a king. Unfortunately local opportunities to make that kind of money are otherwise almost nil. Even if you can speak Vietnamese you will find that even a very high salary here (doing a job like coding) in not much relative to the U.S. Also you may find yourself thought of being overqualified; I do very high end media and some people here told me they were afraid to contact me after seeing my CV because they thought I'd charge a fortune.
While you can make a good living here teaching English I doubt that would appeal to the skilled professionals that make up Slashdot's readers. No, the best job is one in which you can work "at the end of a wire", that is live here but work for some U.S. company via the internet. The internet infrastructure is just sufficient to do that (which is one reason why I can't live in Cambodia). Internet telephony here is good (at least from my location). If your job is portable so you don't have to physically see your clients more than once or twice a year then this might "work" for you!
By the way, the cost of living here is not going to be one-tenth that of the U.S. unless you live like a native. Instead if you insist on all the perks of the U.S. it's probably about half the U.S. cost of living (more if you want a car!). On the other hand, wealth is relative; compared to the natives you WILL be very rich and will be treated as such. That has its own perks.
* this recent study (which, to my travelled eyes cannot possibly be true) was based on a bunch of factors including how much (or little) the average person "impacted the environment". Since Vietnamese people are still very poor they don't impact the environment very much which led to a inflated score. Still Ho Chi Minh City has its charms; zero violent crime (it's a police state), pace of life (you can actually meet people and develop friendships), scale of the city (more like one giant neighborhood than a forest of skyscrapers). But act soon, things are changing fast and in 5 years it'll be unrecognizable. In that case you'll:
Miss Saigon.
Re:I'm in Vietnam (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:cost of living. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:cost of living. (Score:3)
Well, we've got homophobia here; drug addictions fue
Re:cost of living. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:cost of living. (Score:4, Interesting)
I've been to Costa Rica, and your brother is full of crap.
Or else he just wants to keep you away and keep the girls to himself.
Re:cost of living. (Score:5, Funny)
Not attractive (Score:2, Funny)
See how many correspond with 'Best places to live' (Score:4, Informative)
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/20
1 Fort Collins, CO 128,000
2 Naperville, IL 141,600
3 Sugar Land, TX 75,800
4 Columbia/Ellicott City, MD 159,200
5 Cary, NC 106,400
6 Overland Park, KS 164,800
7 Scottsdale, AZ 226,000
8 Boise, ID 193,200
9 Fairfield, CT 57,800
10 Eden Prairie, MN 60,600
11 Plano, TX 250,100
12 Eagan, MN 63,700
13 Olathe, KS 112,100
14 West Bloomfield , MI 65,000
15 Richardson, TX 99,200
16 Gilbert, AZ 178,100
17 Parsippany-Troy Hills, NJ 51,600
18 Santa Clarita, CA 172,500
19 Carrollton, TX 124,700
20 Henderson, NV 232,100
21 Bellevue, WA 117,100
22 Newton, MA 83,200
23 Sandy, UT 89,700
24 Westminster, CO 105,100
25 Ann Arbor, MI 113,300
Re:See how many correspond with 'Best places to li (Score:3, Insightful)
But a lot of those places are damn scary.
Also, it doesn't make sense that Richardson TX would draw less than half the salary of Plano TX.
I mean seriously, these are both actually the same place for anyone who would be living in that part of the Dallas metro area, and for that matter, so is Carrollton. There may be a factor related to commuting on I-35 as opposed to Central Expressway, but come on... these are a
Re:See how many correspond with 'Best places to li (Score:3, Informative)
The numbers in the GP posting are population, not salary.
Or 'Best public schools in America'? (Score:3, Interesting)
Apropros a previous poster who wanted to dis 'Bama & Idaho, how many correspond with the best public schools in America [msn.com]?
Re:Or 'Best public schools in America'? (Score:3, Insightful)
My biggest issue is how the scoring ignores the truly best schools. From the FAQ: "The Challenge Index is designed to honor schools that have done the best job in persuading average st
Re:See how many correspond with 'Best places to li (Score:2)
Re:I live in Fort Collins (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously, the problem with these communities is one of the major reasons the cost of living is so low is because the vast majority of jobs there pay very little. Sure, there might be some relatively high-paying tech jobs, but the problem is there are only 5 tech jobs in the whole city.
Re:I live in Fort Collins (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I live in Fort Collins (Score:3, Interesting)
I live in Ft. Collins also. Try HP, Poudre Valley Hospital, Eastman Kodak, Anheuser-Busch, Agilent, Celestica and Colorado State University for starters. Within a half-hour drive or so your will find IBM, Ball Aerospace, NOAA, the National Center for Atmospheric Research, Lockheed Ma
Re:I live in Fort Collins (Score:4, Informative)
In a Testerrosa perhaps! You're right on the Wyoming border for shit's-sake!
You're describing Jobs in Boulder and Greeley was more than an hour north of there - and Ft. Colins is another hour north of Greeley. Please stop yanking people's chains!
I lived in Colorado off and on since 1984, and the tech jobs there were always in a state of downward flux. It only took a few companies to flood a ton of skilled workers into the marketplace - followed by a continual influx of people into the state from places in CA which would drive up the cost of living to levels akin to Seattle. Between 1994 and 1996, the same identical apartment that I rented came on the market 2 years later at 225% what I rented it for.
Pay levels did NOT increase to meet those cost of living increases. And housing? The whole of the southern suburbs of Denver went through the ROOF in housing costs. But hey - getting Quark, Echostar (and the markers of the Dish Network wasn't a small enterprise) would only give up more than 35k if you pulled on all molars. Most of Echostar's jobs were manning the call centers anyway. Real high-dollar work there. AB? Um most of their tech work is at HQ which is 876 miles east of you in St. Louis. IBM - always downsizing, Storage Tech - on the rocks, HP - oh there's a stable one of those, Kodak - another stable one of those - NOAA - no shortage of govt jobs in the fields of science, and the application time is so short too for high-end research. Aerospace is ok now that we're killing people again, but these aren't standard IT jobs unless you're ready to check stress-dynamics on dynamic peak loads within an airframe right after you finish that firewall you're putting on that intranetwork hub.
The biggest downfall of any midwestern tech market is that once the company runs through a round of cutbacks you're going to be hard-pressed to find someone else to pick up the slack. I know plenty of suckers hurting after Sprint ditched them in the middle of bumfuck Kansas with no other options for work elsewhere.
Gotta love RTP (Research Triangle) (Score:5, Informative)
There are tons of tech jobs of every kind out there, especially programming positions. My wife is a teacher and the market for her is evening better than it is for me (as a network engineer/admin type).
I love Ohio, and I bleed scarlet and grey, but there is just no comparison between RTP and any major area in Ohio)
And for you elitest types (I keed!), RDP is home to the second highest percentage of PHD's (per capita) outside of Silicon Valley.
Re:Gotta love RTP (Research Triangle) (Score:2)
Re:Gotta love RTP (Research Triangle) (Score:3, Informative)
And sadly, because of this, the Triangle is following Charlotte and Atlanta in becoming Just Another Metropolis - it's Southern identity and charm lost forever. My sister, who lived in Durham from 1982 to 2002, said she didn't realize how bad it had gotten - till they moved to Irvine (CA.) and found the differences less than expected.
Even worse - my beloved Triad (I a
Outsourcing (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Outsourcing (Score:2)
Of course I live in Canada so the cost of living is a bit higher than $6/day. Without a cell/net/tv you could survive on about 900/mo (rent+food+clothes) but your life would suck balls.
Tom
Re:Relative vs. Absolute Pay (Score:3, Insightful)
An iPod, or a decent MOBO, or even a mid-range graphics card would cost me half a month's wages, on that $450/mo figure. Yes, I've had to save up for those. I've also had to save up just to tour next-door countries. I personally know a lot of people from North America, Japan, Singapore, etc,
My views on Idaho Falls and Alabama in general (Score:5, Informative)
I lived there for a year and pretty much loathed every moment of it. Of course, I came there from Atlanta, Georgia, so
If you're going to live in Montgomery, you might as well consider Huntsville as well. Although it might be slightly harder to get a job there as everyone has some sort of technical background for the most part, it's a fairly agreeable city and not at all representative of the rest of Alabama.
Re:My views on Idaho Falls and Alabama in general (Score:5, Interesting)
Huntsville can be an odd place sometimes; mixing rocket scientists and rednecks has interesting results.
Re:My views on Idaho Falls and Alabama in general (Score:2)
Can you buy booze on Sunday?
(Personally, I'm a non-drinker, but I don't want to live in a town where people can't get drunk on Sunday if they want.)
Re:My views on Idaho Falls and Alabama in general (Score:2)
SB
Re:My views on Idaho Falls and Alabama in general (Score:3, Insightful)
Many of the software engineering jobs aren't in Idaho Falls itself, but out at 'The Site', the Idaho National Engineering (and Environmental) Laboratory. It's a convenient 75-90 minute bus ride out of town, just north of Atomic City (Quonset hut with a bar, gas station, and post office).
INE(E)L is located s
Re:My views on Idaho Falls and Alabama in general (Score:3, Insightful)
"...and Fort Worth, Ark..." (Score:2, Informative)
Re:"...and Fort Worth, Ark..." (Score:2)
And it's also printed on receipts from local ATM machines.
Highest paying yes, but highest growth?? (Score:5, Insightful)
I dislike the high cost of living, traffic, unaffordability of houses etc. in places such as Silicon Valley. But there are lot more companies where one can work for with decent salary. One's chances of finding another job with close to maximum salary in one's field are lot higher there without having to move.
These are not just idle concerns. I have been asking many such questions to myself recently as I am not in high-tech area such as Silicon Valley. There are no easy answers to such questions. These become even more difficult once one has family, house etc. and has established roots in one place.
Osho
Re:Highest paying yes, but highest growth?? (Score:2)
Good luck finding a job in Middle Nowhere (Score:2)
Collateral Damage (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Collateral Damage (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure, MAYBE the cream of the crop is better (and I say Maybe), but are you going to be hiring Steve Jobs or Larry Ellison or Scott McNealey (or Bill Hewlett, RIP)?
Stanford was a great producer of educated people, but educated people don't necessarily equate to talent on the job. And the gold rush of the late 90s brought a lot of VERY untalented people out of the woodwork and into silicon valley.
The average silicon valley wonk is far below the talent of what you can find in middle America if you just conduct a reasonable candidate search. And the average wonk in silicon valley is paid 40% more.
My experience? I used to interview and hire people across the country for a MAJOR silicon valley-headquartered company. Hiring in Silicon Valley was the hardest spot I had to hire in - not because there wasn't some talent there, but because there were so many wanna-bes who job hop to rack up their salary and hide their deficiencies.
Re:Collateral Damage (Score:4, Insightful)
This just tell's me that your firm doesn't know how to hire people. There are plenty of talented people in Texas. Heck, there are plenty of talented homegrown people in the Litte Rock, AR area. If your company can't find them, don't blame the area. I personnally believe this applies to all of the US. There are plenty of trainable college grads in most major US cities. If you think the talent/gurus are much better in a tech hot spot, then you are willing to pay a premium for equal talent not better talent. I'd think that most businesses that move to area's where the cost of living is lower end up hiring more people not to do the same amount of work. They hire more people because its cheaper and can get more done if the organization is properly run.
Re:Collateral Damage (Score:3, Insightful)
San Antonio is a great place to live if you don't mind the slow pace of the city. It is one of the few cities I've lived in where you can do pretty well for yoursel
NB: Fort Smith, not Forth Worth (Score:2)
Re:NB: Fort Smith, not Forth Worth (Score:2)
The only place in Texas that sounds livable to me (again, from the reports of others) is Austin. Plus, I think I'd like the adrenaline rush every time I walked within view of the bell tower.
There's a reason it's cheap to live in those place (Score:2)
Research Triangle Park (Score:2)
The pay rates here are less than my "home" city of Philadelphia. But the cost of living is so much lower that I actually get a nice net raise out of the relocation. Still, if you are just after a big income, this is not the region to loo
Re: (Score:2)
Work from anywhere (Score:2)
How about Iraq? (Score:2, Interesting)
According to a reliable friend of mine, the starting salary for IT jobs in Iraq is around $100,000 a year. He says you don't really need much training, you just need to be good with computers and willing to take risks. Of course, working in Iraq is pretty certain to end up more unpleasant than working in Idaho or Arkansas.
Intriguing (Score:3, Insightful)
Sad as it is, the expensive places to live are often expensive for a reason - people want to live there.
Re:Intriguing (Score:3, Funny)
Oh come on... We are nerds... We buy everything online and don't need to go out to buy stuff... As long as we can get borad band we'll be fine...
We can get broad band at these places right?
What? We can't... Well to hell with them!
Re: (Score:2)
What those places lack (Score:2)
None here... (Score:2)
E
Re:None here... (Score:3, Funny)
Move to Idaho... and Get Stuck There (Score:5, Insightful)
If you are used to an environment where you can lose your job today and have a new one by the end of the week, then you will be shocked when you spend 6 months unemployed.
Now don't get me wrong, I grew up in Idaho, but you need to realize that it is a complete backwater. =)
Montgomery? (Score:3, Insightful)
Take it from some that lives in Montgomery... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've GOT to get out of this redneck filled, racist, little freaking town!
Try Charlotte NC (Score:3, Informative)
What Is "Cost Of Living"? (Score:5, Insightful)
$50,000/year, $10,000 annual rent.
Job B:
$100,000/year, $40,000 annual rent.
Relative to the cost of rent, Job A is phenominal: You're making five times the cost of rent. Job B sucks: you're only earning 2.5 times rent. By this measure, job A is far and away the better option - by a factor of 2.
The thing is, once you've paid the varying rent, where do you spend the rest of your money? The decent spec new PC will be $2,000 in Rancho Santa Fe, Manhattan or BFI. The new $25,000 car will be $25,000 wherever you buy it. The big TV is the same price wherever. And, most important of all, the internet porn subscriptions run the same wherever you are too.
At that point, would you rather the job that's 5 times "cost of living" but only leaves you with $40,000 or the one that gives a sucky 2.5x but leaves you with $60,000 extra.
Next, on the simple level, let's look at that cost of living. Assuming you get on, buy and pay a mortgage off, in 20 years time the place with the poor salary relative to cost of living will leave you with a $500,000-$1,000,000 home vs. the $200,000-$250,000 place in the "better" area. Now, aged 40, you can up and move to the cheap place, selling your home, buying one of the nicest places in the cheap area and having a nice large nest egg lfet over to let you get to retire early. My in-laws have just done exactly that and apparently a lot of people in Texas are getting seriously pissed at all the Californians coming in, buying huge homes after selling up smaller places in CA and pushing up the Texan cost of living for people who're still paid no more.
And, finally, there's a reason rent and property are so expensive in some areas. Go to California and look out of the window. Rumor has it that other parts of the world have a condition called Seasonal Affective Disorder. Land is expensive in California because you never shovel snow, you rarely deal with crazy humidity, you rarely have the insane heat of Arizona, you rarely get mosquitos the size of Volkswagens and you can sit on the beach on New Year's Day. In short, supply and demand means that when there's a crazy price, there's generally a great reason for it.
So, yes, some areas have high costs of living and lower salaries in relation to that cost. But I.T. is famous for the fact that we out earn most other professions and, once you get past earning about three times cost of average rent, everything else is gravy. Sure, you reach that point faster elsewhere - but once you do reach it (and you do in I.T.), you keep going even further when the numbers are bigger.
I've watched a lot of friends leave California because they're in other fields and it's just too expensive to live here if you don't earn well. But once you get to the kind of salaries I.T. tends to pay, the cost of rent becomes a relatively minimal part of the total cost of living a great life.
Supply and demand (Score:4, Funny)
The more people realize this, the more they'll be encouraged to move here, the more demand for the same supply of housing and the more I have to pay.
Iowa is the shiznit. It's the coolest place ever. I'm in California and it's awful here. We have to walk up hill both ways and the hills are steeper here (the land's scrunched up by our daily earthquakes). And hot? Like you wouldn't believe. Don't believe that stuff about coastal areas being cooler - it's hell here. No one should ever move here because, high salaries or not, life's too expensive. Iowa's the place. Des Moines is just super awesome. Off you go!
As a Des Moines resident, I take offense! (Score:3, Insightful)
I know you meant "Des Moines is just super awesome" as a jab, but it really is a great place to live. Granted, it has terrible weather just like the rest of Iowa, but if you can get past that, it's wonderful. And, I'll have you know, that as of 2004 Des Moines officially employs more people in the insurance industry than any other US city -- Hartford, CT is now the Des Moines of the east. Mind you, that only employs tens of thousands of information technology people, but no worries. Wells Fargo is movi
Re:What Is "Cost Of Living"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What Is "Cost Of Living"? (Score:3, Interesting)
If you're going to stay and ride the housing price wave, remember that prices can (and do) stagnate from time to time. Eve
Problem with Small Cities (Score:3, Insightful)
Now if I could get a job in, say, Grand Junction CO so I could hike in some incredible terrain every weekend I might be willing to make an exception.
Go to Alberta (Score:5, Interesting)
McDonald's workers are getting $15/hour, signing bonuses and $100 extra pay if you show up for all your shifts that week.
Housing is a bit of a problem, there's a booming business finding old homes, ripping them off their foundation and dragging them to Calgary.
Calgary is sprawling outward at an incredible rate, it's bigger in area than NY city.
It's all from oil, tar sands that is, Canada exports oil since we make more than we use. The US gets about 10% of its oil from Canada and that will probably increase due to the US public's of growing concern about "foreign oil".
People are going there by the thousands every day, it's crazy!
cost of living vs. MacBook Pro (Score:4, Insightful)
Telecommute (Score:3, Interesting)
And Seattle is the most overpriced city. (Score:3, Interesting)
Turns out Forbes is a rag. Seattle is cheaper than any other city I have ever lived in. Rent is cheaper. Wages are about the same. Gas is just as bad here as anywhere. Fruit is decent quality and only slightly worse than california prices. There's no state income tax.
Considering the rather 'innovative' reporting they've done on the SCO v. IBM matter as well, I really do wonder if there's a substantial difference in quality between New Scientist and Forbes.
I'm not saying THIS article is crap, but quality of life and cost of living can be very different matters and are not easy things to sum up. I'd advise that nobody use an article like this to make a life-altering decision.
Basic Economics?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't forget income taxes (Score:3, Interesting)
Too many people neglect to check salary offers against income taxes - you'd be shocked how much of a bite they take out.
Just do it (Score:3, Insightful)