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Where the Highest Paying Tech Jobs Are 574

prostoalex writes "Where would you look for a high-paying tech job? If your answer is Silicon Valley or Research Triangle, Forbes magazine suggests some other destinations. When you take the cost of living and consider the net pay adjusted for that cost, places like Montgomery, Ala., Idaho Falls, Idaho, and Fort Smith, Ark. suddenly seem quite attractive."
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Where the Highest Paying Tech Jobs Are

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  • Outsourcing (Score:5, Interesting)

    by owlman17 ( 871857 ) on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @09:29PM (#15836550)
    In other third world countries where these tech jobs are being outsourced to, $USD400-$600/month is very high. I live in Manila, and the minimum wage is roughly less than $USD 6.00 daily. Those who work in outsourced tech-support call centers make $300 monthly and they're very happy about it. I had a short web-design stint making about $450 monthly and I was really really happy about it, to say the least. Single people here could live like kings on that.
  • Collateral Damage (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NoHandleBars ( 10204 ) on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @09:35PM (#15836576)
    I once oversaw moving a firms's HQ and IT functions from Silicon Valley to San Antonio, TX because of the "math" some white collar genius put together like this Forbes nonsense. Sure, the "average" wage was one-half of what it was in Palo Alto, but because of the "quality" of local talent, we ended up hiring THREE TIMES as many staff to do the same amount of work. (For the math-challenged, that meant productivity sucked by 50%.) This wasn't just a drain on company resources, but on the few people who DID know their chops and had to hoist it in for the dullards. Those that made the move and saw the disaster had to in turn move completely out of the area to restore sanity to their careers. And the "icing on the cake" is that San Antonio is the only place I've stood hip deep in mud and had sand blow in my face. No thanky-thanky.
  • by eln ( 21727 ) on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @09:38PM (#15836597)
    Denver?

    Seriously, the problem with these communities is one of the major reasons the cost of living is so low is because the vast majority of jobs there pay very little. Sure, there might be some relatively high-paying tech jobs, but the problem is there are only 5 tech jobs in the whole city.

  • Well they must work at the bank, at the church, or they are in construction.
  • by mosel-saar-ruwer ( 732341 ) on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @09:47PM (#15836639)

    Apropros a previous poster who wanted to dis 'Bama & Idaho, how many correspond with the best public schools in America [msn.com]?

    1 Talented & Gifted Dallas Texas
    2 Jefferson County IBS** Irondale Ala.
    3 BASIS Charter Tucson Ariz.
    4 City Honors** Buffalo N.Y.
    5 Stanton College Prep** Jacksonville Fla.
    6 Eastside** Gainesville Fla.
    7 Suncoast Community** Riviera Beach Fla.
    8 Science/Engineering Magnet Dallas Texas
    9 International Academy* Bloomfield Hills
    10 Academic Magnet North Charleston S.C.
    11 Science Academy of South Texas Mercedes Texas
    12 North Hills School** Irving Texas
    13 H-B Woodlawn Arlington Va.
    14 Eastern Sierra Academy Bridgeport Calif.
    15 Richard Montgomery** Rockville Md.
    16 Myers Park** Charlotte N.C.
    17 Classen School of Advanced Studies** Oklahoma City Okla.
    18 Highland Park Dallas Texas
    19 Clarke County** Berryville Va.
    20 Little Rock Central Little Rock Ark.
    21 Hillsborough** Tampa Fla.
    22 San Diego High School of International Studies* San Diego Calif.
    23 John Miller-Great Neck North Great Neck N.Y.
    24 Wilson Magnet** Rochester N.Y.
    25 Atlantic Community** Delray Beach Fla.
    ETC.


    Flyover country seems to be mighty well represented on some of these lists...

  • Re:cost of living. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Ohreally_factor ( 593551 ) on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @09:55PM (#15836686) Journal
    I've considered India, but I'm seriously looking at Mexico and Costa Rica. I'm partial to Mexico because I love Mexican culture (and I already have many friends there), but Costa Rica is really an up and coming high tech nation.

    It's possible to have a very high standard of living for less money in these countries. And if your material needs are not great, you can live incredibly cheaply, save up a bunch of money and retire early.

    The other thing is that, depending on how you work it, you might not be taking a cut in pay at all. All many of us need is to be at the one end of a wire. These countries have internet infrastructure, at least in the bigger towns and cities. Last time I was in Mexico, I met two people that were living there and making a living this way. One was a daytrader (remember those?) and the other had a web development company he had basically started in the U.S. When he moved to Mexico, his clients hardly noticed. He's making even more money now because he's found a lot of local talented designers and coders that work for lower pay, but he's still getting paid the same. And because he pays at the upper end of the prevailing local wage, his workers love him.

    Moreover, he told me that because he lives in Mexico, he's much less likely to have to go to a day long meeting to discuss what exact shade of green should be used to maximize the branding of a particular website. Clients are less likely to fly him in to discuss trivial shit. Or they fly out to him because it's an excuse to visit Mexico.

    Anyway, if you can work at the end of a wire, seriously consider some of the developing nations. I can't guarantee that you'll prosper, but I can guarantee you'll have a very interesting time.
  • by Burdell ( 228580 ) on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @09:57PM (#15836693)
    As someone who lives in Huntsville (born and raised here) and also does some business in Montgomery, I'd have to agree. I'm not aware of a whole lot of tech jobs available in Montgomery; there's always demand in Huntsville (especially as another 7-12 thousand Army and contracter jobs come to Huntsville in the next few years). I don't know how the cost of living compares (Huntsville is a good bit lower than the Atlanta area though). The "metro" areas around Montgomery and Huntsville are about the same size IIRC, but Huntsville has a lot more "outside" influence (German rocket scientists in the 1950s and people from all over the world since).

    Huntsville can be an odd place sometimes; mixing rocket scientists and rednecks has interesting results.
  • How about Iraq? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Digi-John ( 692918 ) on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @10:01PM (#15836714) Journal

    According to a reliable friend of mine, the starting salary for IT jobs in Iraq is around $100,000 a year. He says you don't really need much training, you just need to be good with computers and willing to take risks. Of course, working in Iraq is pretty certain to end up more unpleasant than working in Idaho or Arkansas.

  • Re:cost of living. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by indiancowboy ( 637150 ) on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @10:02PM (#15836725)
    Taking into consideration purchasing power parity (PPP), India's GDP [cia.gov] of $719.8 billion becomes $3.611 trillion. PPP adjusts the income approximately 5 times to the US Dollar. If the average salary in the US is $67,400, that is $13,480 in India's PPP terms. And the average salary for programmers in India is certainly above that. People need to understand its not about 'cheap labour'. Its just another feature of globalization.
  • by AaronPSU777 ( 938553 ) on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @10:23PM (#15836807)
    "I have no idea where the people here work if they can afford to shop at all the new places. But above all, there are only two kinds of buildings under construction here. Churches and banks. Where do these people work???"

    I live in Ft. Collins also. Try HP, Poudre Valley Hospital, Eastman Kodak, Anheuser-Busch, Agilent, Celestica and Colorado State University for starters. Within a half-hour drive or so your will find IBM, Ball Aerospace, NOAA, the National Center for Atmospheric Research, Lockheed Martin, and the University of Colorado to name a few. All this is in a town within an hour or two of some of the best skiing, hiking, camping, climbing and biking in the country and a very affordable cost of living. Oh and did I mention there are several great microbreweries right in town :)

    Seriously, the only people I hear rag on Ft. Collins are the ones that have lived there their whole lives and don't realize how good they have it.
  • by jascat ( 602034 ) on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @10:39PM (#15836874)
    This place sucks! The job market is bad and you're going to be pretty much stuck working for either the state government or the DoD if you can find someone that has the right connections to get you a job. If you don't have a secret clearance, your chances seriously go down. Tech here just ain't it. Most places in Texas have lower costs of living with larger populations and better job markets. That's why I plan to head there in 2008.

    I've GOT to get out of this redneck filled, racist, little freaking town!
  • Re:What about... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SIGALRM ( 784769 ) on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @10:43PM (#15836897) Journal
    Yeah, Seattle falls under the same category. I live and work near Redmond, and it's typical that TFA doesn't mention the greater Seattle area at all. Most people seem to forget we're here, which is fine w/me.
  • Re:cost of living. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @11:07PM (#15837012)
    A good work friend of mine came across from Mumbai, after working for investment banks there. He was very well paid for a native. Then he came to work here in Sydney and gets a good wage here as well (again investment banks). According to him, he will never, ever go back. Major downside for a western minded person living in india:

    -Corruption is HUGE. You have pay everyone off to just get basic services connected. It took him 1-2 years just to get an internet connection and when he did it was a 128k, then he had to keep rejustifying it. (A few years ago now). It took him a year just to get his licence, he got his here and hard the card before he left the premesis. His car was impounded at one point. When this happens it's a write-off, as the police strip it and sell it for parts. The general point here is that india is terribly, terribly inconvenient and frustrating. (Remember he was a complete native.)

    -Cost of living is good? Sure. Try buying PC parts. He paid premium prices for budget parts. Over here he has gone dual core, dual proc, with SLI for what he says is a similar expenditure.

    -You leave your earning behind. Ever think you could sell you Indian house, gather the proceeds and leave india? Think again. They will tie you up with paper work so it'll NEVER happen.

    Apparently the only thing he will miss is the Mango's :)

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday August 02, 2006 @11:16PM (#15837054)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Re:Huntsville, AL (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Hoi Polloi ( 522990 ) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @12:11AM (#15837293) Journal
    I had to travel to Huntsville a few times for NASA work. It got barren pretty quickly when you drove anywhere and it was brutally hot. People who lived there said it was too hot in the summer to do much of anything and the lack of any pedestrian features (like sidewalks) encouraged a lot of the waistlines I saw. One local even said he felt safer visiting Boston than being in downtown Huntsville after dark. Most of the jobs and companies down there are dependent on government $ which means that they are at the mercy of politics. The focus on the military also means there is little variety in the types of jobs available.
  • Go to Alberta (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Easy2RememberNick ( 179395 ) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @12:29AM (#15837374)
    If you want to know where high paying jobs are go to Alberta, Canada it's insane!

      McDonald's workers are getting $15/hour, signing bonuses and $100 extra pay if you show up for all your shifts that week.

      Housing is a bit of a problem, there's a booming business finding old homes, ripping them off their foundation and dragging them to Calgary.

      Calgary is sprawling outward at an incredible rate, it's bigger in area than NY city.

      It's all from oil, tar sands that is, Canada exports oil since we make more than we use. The US gets about 10% of its oil from Canada and that will probably increase due to the US public's of growing concern about "foreign oil".

      People are going there by the thousands every day, it's crazy!
  • Re:cost of living. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @01:49AM (#15837619) Journal
    My brother lived in Costa Rica (and I lived in El Salvador), and I would guess the biggest thing you are going to have to put up with are the bugs. One or two inch long cockroaches are pretty common down there, and occasionally you will see a 6 inch long cockroach or grasshopper. You might want to check out Baygon or Permethrin. Ants are crazy too, there are so many kinds of ants. But you will learn how to store your food and how to spray so they don't become a problem. There are some nice cheap houses down there, and nice rain forests. But in spite of what that AC said, the girls down there are not hot at all. At least, according to my brother.
  • Re:Collateral Damage (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 03, 2006 @01:52AM (#15837627)

    So, how goes the computer animation business ? I heard you guys dried up when the Babylon 5 contract went away.

    There are a bunch pretty damn smart people in San Antonio - hell, I'm one of 'em. You can find them in the small but growing collection of tech firms, in the DoD security establishment, and in some of the most technically talented IT shops in the country.

    But the market isn't huge, and any firm that tries to build itself up in a hurry is going to run into problems. Especially if you don't know how to hire (like the other AC said). And it will be even worse if you're trying to do it on the cheap. That talent isn't going to leave their secure job for some carpetbagger that spends all their time whining.

    Don't know where you found the sand - usually the humidty is the problem :-\

  • Telecommute (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BenjyD ( 316700 ) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @04:22AM (#15838004)
    Get the best of both worlds - telecommute from a cheap area to a job in an expensive area. Works for me, and means I might actually be able to afford to buy a house before I retire.
  • by Dogun ( 7502 ) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @04:26AM (#15838010) Homepage
    You know, Forbes put out an article about a year ago saying Seattle was the most overpriced city in the USA. As I had just started working when this article came out, I was mildly concerned about that statement.

    Turns out Forbes is a rag. Seattle is cheaper than any other city I have ever lived in. Rent is cheaper. Wages are about the same. Gas is just as bad here as anywhere. Fruit is decent quality and only slightly worse than california prices. There's no state income tax.

    Considering the rather 'innovative' reporting they've done on the SCO v. IBM matter as well, I really do wonder if there's a substantial difference in quality between New Scientist and Forbes.

    I'm not saying THIS article is crap, but quality of life and cost of living can be very different matters and are not easy things to sum up. I'd advise that nobody use an article like this to make a life-altering decision.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 03, 2006 @06:29AM (#15838297)
    I've always wondered what US people mean when you mention "$50k jobs". I mean, I know this is annual salary, but $4k/month still seems a lot to me.

    Where I live (Central Europe), this is _the_ upper margin for a tech job, but the figure includes health & pensions benefits and all the taxes. So the actual figure one sees on their bank account monthly is more along $1500-$2000.

    How does all this work in the US? How much does the "$50k" translate to in terms of "this is how much I can spend for my bills/groceries/mortgage/etc, per month"?
  • Re:Huntsville, AL (Score:3, Interesting)

    by cdrudge ( 68377 ) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @07:54AM (#15838531) Homepage
    And of course mass transit is green and has zero pollution as well. I live in an averge sized town and while we don't have subways, we do have a decent bus system. Based off of the amount of smoke they spew at every intersection, I'm not sure how much better public transportation is over driving yourself in a well maintained vehicle.

    Even once you factor in the cost of vehicles, it's still cheaper where I live then in Silicon Valley. I use a tank of gas a week ($40) to get to work and errands. Insurance is $500/year. The vehicle itself is an old 97 Cavalier that I have probably $2500 in. Maintenance is $1000/year. Using a little common sense, you can combine trips so that you aren't wasting gas.

    You comment about going out and discovering a world. How exactly does one do that when they are reliant on mass transportation to do it? Last I checked, most mass transit systems don't cover more then a relatively small geographical area.
  • by Overzeetop ( 214511 ) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @08:17AM (#15838615) Journal
    Insightful, indeed, however there are still dangers in that water. I lived in SoCal and couldn't wait to get out. To many stupid people to deal with. And I grew up in DC, so that's really saying quite a lot. It was nice not to have rain, but unless you lived on the coast the weather was stifling for a good bit of the year and the air made your throat and lungs hurt in the summer months.

    If you're going to stay and ride the housing price wave, remember that prices can (and do) stagnate from time to time. Even while I was there, I saw some people's houses values stagnate, while others hit the lottery (one coworker bought a house in a neighborhood for $150k in January, and by May his development was considered "hip", and his next door neighbor sold a similar house in the low $400s). Think of it as investing in the stock market in the early 90s, and selling your portfolio and retiring in 2000. Everyone should do it because you can now live on the cash and not work again. Except, of course, that you happened to hit a nice ride, and everyone who jumped into the market in 2000 isn't quite so happy with the results. Housing prices are still speculative.

    You're point that living in a high-dollar housing place will get you a nice sale and cash-out when you leave is true - that money does add up over time. Worse, if you live in a cheap, normal growth (which is about 6%/yr* before expenses, repairs, and taxes) and have to end up moving to the big cities, you're royally hosed. Houses really do drive the cost of living, but there is a certain investment quality to them, so its not all cost. The other big one is taxes. They can vary quite a bit, and are affected by RE price. I have a cousin who pays as much or more in taxes on her 5BR house in Jersey than I pay for the entire mortgage on my house in Virginia. That's money gone forever. And it's not necessarily proportional: I paid about $.20-$.23 per $100 of actual value in a rural county in VA, vs ~$2.40/$100 in Maryland.

    Not saying that you aren't correct - your plan has merit if you can stand the atmosphere

    *Data point: $130k house ~15m north of DC beltway in 1978 sold for $700k in 2003. Super hot area, McMansions galore, very desirable (large) lot with a horse barn, stone arena, fencing all put in since the original purchase. Realtor's "market value" was $540k (average from three good local agents), but the owners decided to advertise themselves instead. Increase over that 25 years: 7% per year actual, 6% by the "Realtors' Market Value" estimate. I think the realtors would have been on target if it hadn't been for the horse barn & amenities.
  • by dmcooper ( 899820 ) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @10:13AM (#15839377) Homepage
    I do pretty well here... housing outside of the main city is extremely affordable. For a 20+ year old with a wife and two kids and low personal debt - can't be beat.
  • by AnalogDiehard ( 199128 ) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @10:34AM (#15839563)
    I turned down a great job in Long Island. While the pay was attractive, it put me in a higher tax bracket and took away the ability to pay for the outrageous cost of real estate. Not to mention higher cost of insurance, auto maintenance, utilities. It all added up to higher expenses and too little money to put away for savings. And if I lost my job, unemployment would not begin to meet the cost of rent. Monster.com has a tool that lets you find the cost of living in an area where there is a job opening.

    Too many people neglect to check salary offers against income taxes - you'd be shocked how much of a bite they take out.

  • Re:cost of living. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Johnny5000 ( 451029 ) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @11:38AM (#15840057) Homepage Journal
    But in spite of what that AC said, the girls down there are not hot at all. At least, according to my brother.

    I've been to Costa Rica, and your brother is full of crap.
    Or else he just wants to keep you away and keep the girls to himself.
  • Re:I'm in Vietnam (Score:3, Interesting)

    by wisebabo ( 638845 ) on Friday August 04, 2006 @02:06AM (#15844890) Journal
    Prostitution is illegal in Vietnam although I've never seen a foreigner being arrested/prosecuted. Recreational drugs is DEFINITELY not permitted, that'll get you in prison for sure. Finally private armies are ludictrous when the country is a police state, all power remains with the government (not the people, or constitution for that matter), even the local mafia/gangsters exist solely at the grace of the authorities (and they don't do much anyway, there was a bust where a bunch of them were just rounded up and summarily executed).

    No if that's what you're into, Cambodia is the place to go except I don't know if prostitution is officially sanctioned (there is an active campaign against child prostitution thank god). Singapore(!) surprisingly has legal prostitution (probably to give gum chewing addicts something to do).

  • Re:cost of living. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by notoriousE ( 723905 ) on Friday August 04, 2006 @04:17PM (#15848652) Homepage
    The problem with Costa Rican women is that they are hot until about 27 and then start turning into some of the ugliest human beings ever.

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