Pentagon Monitors War Videos Online 216
jonfr writes "According to the BBC, the Pentagon is monitoring online war videos on YouTube and other webpages." From the article: "There is no specific policy that bans troops from posting graphic material. But troops who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan are hearing the message that they should consider carefully what videos they upload to the web. Sites such as YouTube and Ogrish have hundreds or thousands of clips from soldiers, some set to rock music."
No reason to be alarmed. (Score:5, Funny)
Headline video from Ogrish (Score:5, Informative)
Army of Ansar Alsunnah Attacks an Iraqi National Guard Recruitment Center
Friday, July 28 2006
The Army of Ansar Alsunnah, an Iraqi Insurgency group, released a 19 minute video showing a raid on an Iraqi National Guard Recruitment center. The video shows the group capturing members of the Iraqi center and then executing them on the streets. The video then ends with the militants entering the building and destroying the recruiment center with explosives.
Wow.
Re:Headline video from Ogrish (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Headline video from Ogrish (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Headline video from Ogrish (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe that it is not a new low, but rather a new hope for human change.
The smartbombs blowing up buildings on CNN was supposedly real, but I took from it, "Damn, we are good!" Seeing an internet video of an Apache helicopter crew taking out some Iraqis in cold blood made me say, "Damn, we are bad!" And I see the latter as being more real, honest, and hope for change. The torture stuff such as this [google.com] is a good thing to have this exposed. Compare that to the Google.cn search results for Tiananmen Square vs Google.com's searches is not a good thing.
I believe that although there are tons of bad stuff coming from the internet, the good vastly outweighs the bad. The amount of information out there and the latency between the event and the vast amounts of coverage for such a thing is absolutely amazing. Even the wacko conspiracy stuff is still a good thing because it at least makes people question what is real vs just taking whatever CNN and Fox or whoever tells us is "news".
I see the internet as one of the biggest boom to human development since other landmarks. So, Pentagon keep monitoring us, because we are monitoring you too. Oh yeah, and there is more of us than you Pentagon guys.
Re:Headline video from Ogrish (Score:2)
Re:Headline video from Ogrish (Score:2)
Yes, I know teens were beating each other up before (hell, I was once or twice), but I imagine that putting it on video would make things a bit worse in terms of pride and self-esteem.
Re:Headline video from Ogrish (Score:2)
Life is cheap. (Score:3, Insightful)
The fact that such a video has been produced in the first place, and circulated, ought to be a wake-up call to people like you, because there are a whole lot of people who see something like that -- see videos of someone behe
Re:Accidents teach lessons (Score:2)
Interesting phenomenon (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't choose to look at the photos, but in a way I think it's good to de-sanitize war, because it isn't.
De-Sanitization of War (Score:5, Insightful)
The Iraq War has not affected the lives of the majority of Americans.
Personally, I find such a situation to be gross and atrocious. If we demand that a minority (i.e., the soldiers) of Americans sacrifice their lives for a war, then the rest of America should endure, at a minimum, the sacrifice of paying extra taxes to finance the war. How can I, as an American, support sending another American to die in a foreign land yet refuse to make any sacrifice for the war?
Since the Iraq War has not affected the lives of the majority of Americans, we Americans unconsciously view the war as a sort of remote thing that is happening "over there". The war becomes even more remote when we do not see the upfront carnage of the war. People in Iraq are bleeding and dying on the streets. Islamic thugs are blowing up the bodies of both Iraqi civilians and British soldiers. Yet, we see none of this carnage. It is out of sight and out of mind for most Americans as we stuff ourselves with hot dogs at the baseball stadium. Life is good, and we do not experience the suffering "over there".
I firmly agree with exposing the public to as much of the war as possible. I encourage American soldiers to upload as much of the videos of carnage (to YouTube and the like) as possible. We need to, at least, see the suffering to understand what war is.
I applaud the "News Hour" [pbs.org] for broadcasting all the names and faces of the fallen American soldiers as their names are released by the Pentagon. I also applaud Ted Koppel for devoting an entire episode of "Nightline" in 2004 [cnn.com] to reading the names of the soldiers who had died in both Iraq and Afghanistan. They must not die in obscurity.
By the way, the prime political supporters of the Iraq War have tried to generate American "support" for the war by sanitizing it -- removing any sacrifice (i.e., delaying paying the cost of the war to future generations) and trying to stop reporters, like Ted Koppel, from broadcasting the names of the fallen soldiers. "Support" generated by such manipulative means does not equate to actual support for the war. If we Americans were forced to pay the actual cost of the war (through higher taxes) and were forced to know the daily carnage in Iraq, then this "support" might evaporate. I daresay that even most neo-conservatives would oppose this Iraq if they were forced to pay for it (through higher taxes).
If the majority of Americans refuse to genuinely support a war (by paying for the cost of the war and by facing squarely the carnage caused by the war), then we should never send our soldiers to die in that war. I believe that most Americans do not genuinely support the Iraq War.
Sacrifice (Score:2)
Yes, I'm serious.
Re:De-Sanitization of War (Score:3, Insightful)
Can't have an infinite war if your country is screaming for your head... remember, the American public cares most about money - if you don't hurt the dollar then 50% of people are fine with you, at least in the short run (4-8 years).
The thing that mystifies me is that p
Re:De-Sanitization of War (Score:2)
God, I wish that were just a guess.
Re:De-Sanitization of War (Score:2)
Good, bad, or indifferent, all of those guys who went over there and were killed or wounded volunteered for such work, and they should have understood the consequences of such a decision. You and I did not volunteer for such a job. AFAIK, the military tries to filter out people that are not of sound mind or body to take such a job.
I've talked with such people, and they know the
Re:De-Sanitization of War (Score:2)
I'll do what I can to vote Bush out of office, but part of me fears there will be a day when he will just decide not to leave off
Re:De-Sanitization of War (Score:2)
Unless you are planning to emigrate, or go to jail for tax evasion, I don't see how you can avoid financing it.
Re:De-Sanitization of War (Score:2)
Thing is, do they do the normal thing of playing patriotic music, and showing a happy family photo of them in front of a US flag flapping in the wind? That almost makes it look like an honour for them to have died for the US in the war, no matter what the reasoning behind it. The US version of martyrs. Are you saying that's a good thing? I'd say it's p
Hello.... (Score:2)
Re:Hello.... (Score:2)
Good point. Mea culpa.
Unless I'm very mistaken, the original post was about a general tax increae, being used not for a particular (social/military/whatever) program, but instead to prevent greater debt, and therefore greater interest charges in the future. Which is just fiscal responsibility. And I didn't get anything from his post implying that he was against paying higher taxes himself- but f
Re:De-Sanitization of War (Score:3, Funny)
No, really, why?
Re:De-Sanitization of War (Score:2)
your feelings if this was an insurgent video? (Score:2)
Would you be happy with that and accept it as a fair outlet for the insurgents need to help explain to people what t
Re:Interesting phenomenon (Score:2)
I think in most cases it is neither. In a war zone soldiers have to desensitize themselves to things that in normal life would be horrifying. I think these photos start out to be just the military war-zone version of vacation pictures. Later, when back in the real world, the pictures, souvenirs, ears, etc. often become things the soldiers regret havi
how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:5, Interesting)
I lost significant respect for soldiers the day I found some clips on a military-ish website.
One was a surveilance helicopter (dunno which one...probably the one with the camera/sensor ball above the rotor) and the video was from a training session. Most of the video, however, was of the crew watching thermal imaging of a couple having sex in the back seat of a convertible. So, if you think your military isn't spying on you as a civilian, you're right- "The Military" isn't, but a bunch of bored 20-somethings in multi-million-dollar toys ARE. And discipline in the military is so lax that apparently that kind of crap is tolerated.
Second sealed the deal for me. It was video from one of the big cargo-plane gunships in either Iraq or Aghanistan. The video consisted of thermal camera footage of them systematically gunning down people at some sort of small building- almost like a small church, quite possibly a mosque.
It showed people running for cover and the crew gunning them down, and it went for a good 5-10 minutes. They didn't appear to have any weapons, and were trying to hide behind walls and such (which didn't work since the gunship was circling.) That turned my stomach. However, when I listened more closely to the radio chatter, I wanted to throw up. The gunners and crew were laughing and joking. "Oh, quick, get 'im, there he goes!" "Oh, he thinks he's safe now, ahaha!", "hey, good shot there man! You really got him good!" etc. It was like a video game to them; my portrayal just doesn't do it "justice". There was no hate or malice- just very sickening joy on the part of those watching a video screen and plugging real people with real bullets and shells from miles away up in the sky.
Talk about video game violence just doesn't compare to the joy these murderers (I don't think the term "soldier" is even appropriate) took in killing other human beings. I feel a twang of guilt after a session of Battlefield 2, but these guys took joy in the real thing.
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:5, Informative)
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
I don't think he believed otherwise.
Their language may be crude
I don't think his problem was with the language.
I think it was about how they found it fun. The mentality.
It makes no difference to a dead insurgent, but it do make a difference in the perception of the US army.
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
And what would you have them be? Terrified? Emotionless?
In case you haven't noticed, these guys are at war. Which means they are under a great deal of stress. Probably a greater deal of stress than you or I will ever come to know. Probably a greater adreniline rush than you or I will ever come to know. Their attitudes which you found so crud
no, you don't get it (Score:4, Insightful)
And if you can't understand this, you are also a moron. Want a badguy to go depose? How about Mugabe, 1,000 times worse than saddam, not only an evil dude, but can't even keep an economy going? Oh, he doesn't have any oil for the neocons? Or no central location in the middle of all the other oil? You really think oil doesn't have anything to do with this? You dig on mass theft along with murder?
Get real. Very few people "support" you now. The numbers drop daily. Pretty soon you'll be down below single digit support-it's already lower than during the waning days of the nam war. this is a clue, get it? Because the facts are fact, it's a stupid war based on lies told by professional liars out for mega profits and support for some weird ass armageddon end times prophecy crp. these people who are giving you orders are LOONS and liars.. You got in, took out saddam,swell, now go home, if yuou can. Let them folks sort their own crap out, they don't need your high speed screaming death "help". If they choose to destroy their own nation, so be it, it's THEIR nation, not yours. If they need to split up into three distinct countries, again, so be it. None of your damn business, none whatsoever, and never was. Not a single iraqi was involved in 9-11, even though most of you brainwashed tards seem to think so..
How would you feel if some coalition decided to move into the US and start wasting people that they called "insurgents" because they dared to resist the invasion? What would you do?
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
This really needs to be emphasized. The restrictions on using CAS (over here, at least) are non-trivial
not much of a bomb (Score:2)
2,000lb JDAM (Score:2)
Their construction methods are surprisingly sturdy, considering the materials they have to work with. There is very little wood here, for example--the compound walls are some type of mud which seems to hold up really well against shrapnel and concussion.
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
I think the problem is that you are implicitly assuming that they would not be firing on innocent people. I have heard of slaughters in this war. The killing of women and children. The killing of all "military aged" men in a town. If we had a guarantee that all the people
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:4, Insightful)
This is laughable. Do you think that every soldier obeys the ROE? I have seen a US soldier fire full auto at almost point blank range, into an unarmed old man who is half lying down in a mosque. In a slow frail manner, he extends his empty hand to the soldier standing over him and then gets a chest full. BTW, the US Army has acknowledged that incident, took the soldier out of action and are "investigating". It happens. Please don't be a tard with rose coloured glasses. We teach soldiers to kill people and to varying degrees dehumanize them for the role and then we're shocked that ROE are broken when these soldiers are high on adrenaline, fear and sometimes the drugs they use to escape the hell of war?
Have you seen the video they are talking about? I saw it a long while ago and I don't see where ROE or identification of these people even come into it. They keep saying over and over to stay away from the building which is considered to be a mosque, yet gun down people who are in the beginning just casually walking around, oblivious to the threat above. There is no way that any of the gunners can identify that the people they are killing are combatants, let alone armed combatants. The people on the ground AT NO TIME fire at the AC-130 or even appear to be holding or moving weapons at all.
But don't hit the mosque!!!!
Please, ROE is to cover the militarys own ass. Remember, as a police friend once told me, "dead men tell no lies".
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:4, Interesting)
The stupidity, foibles, and miscommunication that exist in our everyday lives also exist in soldiers' everyday lives. When you reflect on it, I believe that you will see that these videos are not so outrageous after all.
Whether or not they belong on the internet however - that is another question entirely.
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:5, Insightful)
Why are you under the impression that war should be fair? That crew is not obligated to give the insurgents a fighting chance -- if they don't have weapons ready, don't know where the fire is coming from and cannot defend themselves -- tough luck!
This response reminds me of recent comments about Israel's "disproportionate response" to Hezbollah. The whole point of war is to destroy the enemy. War is not an Olympic event!
War is not an Olympic event!? (Score:2)
Hey, there's a good idea! It should be!
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2, Insightful)
A country is allowed to defend itself, but it has to be a proportionate response, otherwise it is a war crime. The Israelis are destroying the entire Lebanon infrastructure with little or no regard for civilian lives. Surely you agree that the Israeli response to Hezbolla capturing prisoners of war is a "disproportionate response
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
It's not so clear to me. Hezbollah created a state within a state, so in effect Lebanon is responsible for Hezbollah's actions. It impresses me that no government official in Leba
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
Really? 450+ Lebanese CIVILIANS *are* dead.
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
What gives you the impression that they were actually insurgents? I haven't watched the video yet but the OP gives the impression they may well have been innocent worshippers.
> This response reminds me of recent comments about Israel's "disproportionate res
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
Considering the quality of the video, automatically assuming this was a mosque is... questionable. Yeah, it doesn't look like a heavily fortified building, but the major characteristic of both Afghanistan & Iraq is that the guys trying to kill the American & British troops don't look look any different from the guys who are
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:5, Insightful)
None of this excuses Hezbollah's missile attacks on civilians in Israel. Or their holding captured Israeli soldiers as hostages. People like Hezbollah, who attack civilians are scum. Plain and simple.
It really sickens me that we (the US) are supporting what Israel is doing. Not only because of how many innocent civilians have lost their lives in the past few weeks as a result of Israeli airstrikes, but because I find it really hard to believe that forcing half a million people from their homes, killing a few innocent people along with a few militants/terrorists, and launching ground assaults against that foreign country, are going to solve any problems. Even if Israel destroys Hezbollah, at what cost? How many non-combatants on both sides will have died in the violence? And how many people in Lebanon who didn't previously have hostile feelings towards Israel will be filled with hate and anger because of Israel's response? Violence breeds violence. Hezbollah's kidnappings caused Israeli airstrikes, which caused Hezbollah to start firing more missiles at Israel, which caused more Israeli airstrikes, ad infinitum.
Atleast Israel has sort of stated what they want to accomplish (drive Hezbollah from southern Lebanon and destroy their unguided rockets and launchers), and that's an OK goal, though maybe a little unrealistic. Hezbollah's (AFAIK atleast) has no real goal - other than inflicting as much pain as possible on Israel and getting them to stop attacking. I guess you could say their goal is to get Israel to exchange prisoners with them, but I think everyone has moved past that now.
I guess I sound rather anti-Israeli, but I'm really not. Before this conflict, I was probably heavily pro-Israeli, and I still favor Israel. I think both sides in this conflict are rather fscked up, though Israel IMHO still has the "moral highground." It's just that I would have thought that Israel would have been smart enough to realize that this wasn't going to accomplish much by now. They can't stop Hezbollah from launching rockets at them, but they could atleast try to not give Hezbollah any more political ammuntion to recruit more militants with. I will praise Israel for not involving Syria or Iran directly yet. If Iran were to get involved, then I can only imagine how ugly it would get - their border with Iraq, the Strait of Hormuz, and the Persian Gulf could all be threatened.
What do I think a reasonable response from Israel would have been? I think sending special forces into Lebanon to try and rescue their captured soldiers, and to destroy the Hezbollah unguided rocket/artillery infrastructure would have been a reasonable response. There would be significantly less collateral damage, and they would have had a better chance at rescuing their captured soldiers than they have after weeks of airstrikes. Hezbollah started this conflict, but if Israel hadn't attacked Lebanon as strongly as they did, then maybe the conflict wouldn't have escalated as much as it has.
PS: Sorry if this comes out as an incoherent ramble, I'm tired from traveling half way across the country today.
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
Hasn't WW2 resulted in a relatively lasting peace in Europe?
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:3, Informative)
Well, then you DO have a problem with Israel striking Hezbollah positions. Groups like this use civilian areas, deliberately to increase body
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2, Insightful)
Then why hasn't Baghdad been nuked?
It's a better strategy in war to enslave the conquered people,
annex their lands, and own their treasure...
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:4, Informative)
On the first: yeah, this suprises you? The military is mostly young men, and this is the kind of shit they pull on a regular basis. I'm not sure it would even be a misdemeanor, if it was in public and seen from a plane. If anything, the couple was commiting the offence of having sex in public.
On the second: War is about killing people, and often you do not let the enemy have the oppurtunity to hide or shoot back. What, you wanted them to get down on the ground and have a duel with those people? Talk to my grandpa about the time B-29s burned down his city, he understands that it was part of a war, and he doesn't think Americans were 'evil' for doing it. Not to say that the experience was a good thing, by any means.
As for the crew treating it as a joke, it's the normal dehumanization of the enemy that happens. Soldiers will get humor out of their situation whenever possible, and not treat it as a grave, somber duty. In that sense, films like Full Metal Jacket or Apocalypse Now were more accurate than the ultra-serious films like Black Hawk Down. It's probobly a coping mechanism, I don't think you could do a job like that if you really felt the weight of every death you cause seriously.
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
If people do it AT NIGHT , IN A CAR, out of the way of traffic, ITS A GOOD THING, dont get jealous.
Btw, Americans, ie IBM also helped the nazis with cool new mechanical computers to help find the jews etc.. and organize
their resources better.
War is 100% about money, and making shit loads, not some 'do goody fighting for freedom' crap.
Remember, before all big wars, there is a surge is prosperity,
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2, Insightful)
And the American Revolution was just about taxes. And World War 2 was just about getting out of the Great Depression.
Man, some of you people amaze me.
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
War is the lowest stage of human interaction. The effects of war on the human condition are long-lasting and devastating. Even for those who escape physical harm, war can be a mind-crippling e
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
Although I don't condone what they did, the soldiers looking at some couple having sex didn't just take the chopper up to spy on peo
not an Apache at all - it's a Kiowa Warrior (Score:2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OH-58D [wikipedia.org]
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
As far as turning slaughtering people into a joke, that is a coping mechanism. An order comes in that some Taliban military leaders are meeting at a certain location. You are the gunner who is ordered to take them
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
Well, if our soldiers can use a $20 million helicopter to watch people having sex, then I don't see why other government employees (teachers, officeholders, etc) shouldn't be allowed to use their $1000 office PC to watch porn while on the job. After all, they are only human.
If you are going to have to gun down people (regardless if they truly are villains or not) in cold blood, you mi
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:3, Insightful)
What makes you think they don't? I am not saying that the soldiers shouldn't be punished, just that I don't think it is a damning revelation to find out that 20 year old kids with thermal imaging devices act like 20 year old kids. The
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
Perfectly symmetrical warfare never solved anything.
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
Being in public eliminates most of your rights to privacy. The fact that someone who happens to be employed by the government is trying out their new nightvision gear, and just happens to see people doing something, IS NOT what most people consider "spying".
Please tell me your lying.... (Score:2)
So you'd rather the soldiers miss the people they're actually shooting at, and hit random shit (like, say, other people) nearby? I, for one, am glad you're not working there anymore.
Re:how I lost respect for soldiers (Score:2)
I think one has to be prepared to deal with reality and look at it as objectively as possible. In other words those videos shown are true, they are not computer simulations, those are not actors, those things are happeni
Typical (Score:5, Insightful)
Now what do we all think of those who fear the truth?
Problem? (Score:2)
It sounds like the Pentagon would "rather they didn't post it," but that's as far as it goes. They have people watching it, but they'd be fools not to watch what people are saying about their activities.
What, exactly, is the problem that you're talking about? Have I misunderstood you?
Re:Typical (Score:2)
"some set to rock music" (Score:3, Insightful)
Not having a clear policy doesn't make it any better, and probably worse. There's a line, and if you cross it, you're fucked. But we're not telling you where the line is. The pentagon has certainly learned a lot from FCC, probably thanks to the initiative to bring all government agencies closer together, or something.
Re:"some set to rock music" (Score:2)
I'm not sure whether you're joking or serious... but you do realize the Pentagon has a sense of humor. I read in one article Psyop troops played the theme from "Team America: World Police" when the troops invaded Fallujah. [sayanythingblog.com] Gramted, a bizarre sense of humor, but a sense of humor.
I, for one.... (Score:2)
Security concerns as well (Score:3, Insightful)
Despite what a lot of people want you to believe, most of our troops are good people trying to help establish infrastructure and order in Iraq. It's a small handful of people that are giving the US military a bad image, and those individuals should be exposed and punished for their behavior.
Everything isn't always black and white... this is definitely one instance where there's a lot of gray area.
Re:Security concerns as well (Score:5, Funny)
But those people are in Washington.
you must be crazy (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't "the military," but a facet of human nature that we don't want to face. People are more bloodthirsty, and have less decency than we want to believe. If you take a random sampling of people and put them in a situation where extreme violence is normalized, where they are patted on the back after killing a lot of people or using "extreme" tactics to extract information, then latent tendencies tend to flower. We take our moral cues from our environment. These guys were put in a situation where brutal tactics were tacitly sanctioned, where their actions were shrouded in secrecy, where they could beat someone to death and still be considered a patriotic, decent human being, and what the living hell did you think was going to happen?
Read about Milgram's experiments, or Zimbardo's prison experiment--when given power, when given the chance to hurt someone along with the feeling that they aren't responsible, indifference to suffering, or even outright cruelty, quickly surfaces. I knew about Abu Ghraib before I knew about Abu Ghraib, because I already know that if you put people in that situation, those things will happen. Any country, any time. They were shielded from public scrutiny, pressured to "get results," violence was winked at, and they were told outright by the administration that the Geneva Convention was "quaint and outdated." If you can't predict what's going to happen in that situation, you have your head in the sand. People are nice when their environment expects them to be nice. If you put people in a situation where they can torture someone to death and still be considered a great guy, then a considerable percentage (not all, but enough) will gladly do so, and still sleep well at night. The issue here is not that I dislike Bush or hate the military, only that I acknowledge human fallibility and the darker side of human nature, and I know that people will act in these ways when put in these situations.
Re:you must be crazy (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't really decry the use of "conversion tactics" such as this in basic training, because otherwise, you end up with situations like those reported in wwII, where in the heat of conflict 60-75% of soldiers avoided firing their weapons because they are still horrified by the idea of killing another
Re:Security concerns as well (Score:2)
I agree. But I think the problem is that the environment we've created in Iraq turns good people bad. Imagine you're an American soldier sent to Iraq: you arrive with the best of intentions, but after weeks and months of trying to help the Iraqi people and seeing things only get worse, of seeing your friends and countless civilians murdered, of not knowing who you
Oh no, a conspiracy! (Score:2)
There's no law banning it, so why monitor it? (Score:2)
But they are paying all these people money to monitor what has been posted...? If they are honest in saying that such stuff is not banned what are they doing when they find the next video with U.S. soldiers blowing up Iraqis? Send them threats? Kidnap them, drug them, put them on a plane and fly them to Romania for torture?
The goverment is used to controlling the media (directly or indirectly) but when faced with blogging and YouT
Are soldiers the same as citizens? (Score:2)
yes, but really no (Score:2)
Category issue (Score:2)
Duh (Score:2)
Another military video is here (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't know about you, but those napalm bombs being dropped on civilian houses in Vietnam ARE civilian houses... heck, that countryside and houses look just like rural Georgia to me...
http://websrvr20.audiovideoweb.com/avwebdswebsrvr2 143/news_video/fallujah_ING512K.mov [audiovideoweb.com]
From ThirdWorldTraveler.com
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Book_Excerpts/Book_E xcerpts.html [thirdworldtraveler.com]
The US military has no busines
Re:Enemy Propaganda (Score:4, Insightful)
You look at the problem from the wrong side of the picture: the problem is that Iraqi/arab teenagers will always find fundamentalist propaganda in bazaars, because fundamentalists don't use YouTube to download their video material, they make their own. On the other hand, if you can't find war videos on YouTube, *american* teenagers won't be able to witness what war really is, and form an opinion on whether or not it is a good thing that their country's military is there, and today's teenagers are tomorrow's voters.
Shutting down real-life war material (i.e. not sanctionned material from "embedded journalists") from the net is a way to skew the american public opinion, therefore it's a problem with the democratic process, not a military problem.
Re:Enemy Propaganda (Score:2)
I think it's pretty fair to say that civilians, as a whole, are not up to the task of watching people get blown apart, sniped, gunned down, etc etc outside the context of a movie or video game.
Anything that might reduce recruitment (negatively skew public opinion) instantly beco
Re:Enemy Propaganda (Score:3, Funny)
These bastards are using Rock Music, for Brian's sake!!!
Copyrighted Rock Music!!!!
They are using the hard work of artists, and not paying anything to the RIAA!!
I only hope they get sued into oblivion for that atrocity.
Killing people, laughing at it, or trying to censor some videos has nothing to do with the awful crime against humanity that is piracy . Remember, when you distribute illegal tunes with your killing spree videos, you are supporting COMMUNISM!!
Re:Yeah this bad music is making me sick... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yeah this bad music is making me sick... (Score:2)
Re:Yeah this bad music is making me sick... (Score:2)
something from "Götterdämmerung" would be more suitable.
You're obviously new here.... (Score:2)
Re:Isn't that the image they should be trying to s (Score:5, Insightful)
But the military doesn't want the image of an organization full of borderline headcases. They want the image of a group of skilled, professional technicians who do their job out of patriotism and a love of excellence. This is what drives the marketing. The marketing is aimed at the public at large, and feeds into public perception, which feeds into funding. The image of the military is a Big Deal, which is part of the reason (along with OPSEC) they are monitoring what the soldiers/marines/seamen/airmen post online. It may be true that a lot of military members just love blowing stuff up and jacking people up, but the generals can't really let that cat out of the bag, even though doing so would attract the people they want--the price would outweigh the benefit. If the public starts mentally associating the military with people who get their jollies with wanton carnage, then the squeaky-clean image of the military starts to erode, and support for a $.45 trillion budget might evaporate. Besides, it's not as if those kind of people don't already know that the military is the job where you get to go to distant lands, meet interesting people, and kill them. So the adrenaline junkies already know what the deal is.
Also, they don't want to lean too heavily on the psycho angle. People have to be controllable--their aggression has to be channelable. War is controlled chaos, but the control is a very important component. They aren't just passing out grenades to any glassy-eyed wacko who walks through the door.
Re:Isn't that the image they should be trying to s (Score:2)
Also, what we have here is the Pentagon faced with the uncontrollable media such as blogs and the Internet. Traditionally someone always controls the media (it could be just the media bosses themselves or the government) at no time in the past could a regula
Re:Truth to the story. (Score:3, Insightful)
That's just plain ridiculous. You haven't thought it thru.
Y'know, maybe if more people around t
Re:Truth to the story. (Score:2)
So tell me, just how would you know? You have no idea whatsoever what I "do for a living" nor anything else about me. You are just blowing hot air.
If you'd like to respond intelligently to my comments, feel free.
SB
Re:Truth to the story. (Score:2)
Re:Truth to the story. (Score:2)
Thought you might have something better to say than that.
Just FYI, I have more than a half dozen friends over there. I'm helping pull the duty that two of them left behind to go over there and serve. So why don't you just STFU.
"Armchair". Fuck You. Tell me something - if this website of yours is so important, why don't you link to it in your slashdot persona? Scared you might get slashdotted?
Re:Truth to the story. (Score:2)
Recently one of my soldiers put a *deleted* video on your websit
Re:you CAN handle the truth (Score:2, Insightful)
"By June 12, a total of 2,493 Americans had died in Operation Iraqi Freedom... Of those fatalities, 1,965 were killed in action by enemy attack, and 528 died in noncombat incidents.
There have been 18,356 troops wounded in action during OIF. This includes 9,920 who returned to duty with 72 hours and 8,436 who were unable to quickly return to action."
21% of the fatalities were not combat related. 54% of those wounded returned in 72 hours. I assume that their injuries
Re:you CAN handle the truth (Score:2)
Apples and oranges. Those other wars are over and done, this one is still ongoing, with no end in sight. We are three years into this war -- for comparison, in 1962, five years into the Vietnam war, only 53 Americans had been killed [thewall-usa.com]. By the time we got completely out of Vietnam, the death toll was 58,178.
That is