Law of Unintended Consequences Strikes Grocers 697
netbuzz writes "The law of unintended consequences is taking a chomp out of grocery chain profits as more stores transition from human clerks to self-service checkout technology, thus reducing the time shoppers spend in line and under the temptation of impulse items. That's the upshot of research being released tomorrow by IHL Consulting Group in Franklin, Tenn., which provides market analysis to the retail industry and its IT vendors."
unpaid labor... (Score:5, Insightful)
They're also taking a chomp out of grocery chain profits since I refuse to shop at a store that forces me to do their work for them. What's next, stores that make you stock their shelves?
Breaking Unions is priceless (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:5, Insightful)
Condoms and Twinkies (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:unpaid labor... (Score:4, Insightful)
boycott self check out. (Score:3, Insightful)
There was also a 6 month period where I went to Home depot about twice a week, and bought lumber every time (I was building a lot of stuff). Their self checkout system doesn't (or at least didn't) allow for construction materials purchases, so the self checkout was NEVER an option.
I encourage others not to use self check outs, and spend a few extra minutes in line. That way, the big expensive machine that they replaced two humans with doesn't provide them any utility.
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's an idea...
CLOSE THE GOD-DAMMED SELF-CHECKOUT MACHINES, AND PUT THAT LADY BEHIND A CASH REGISTER, SOLVING BOTH PROBLEMS FOR FAR LESS MONEY. IT MAKES NO SENSE AT HOME DEPOT, OF ALL PLACES, SITTING THERE FOR 2 FULL MINUTES TELLING YOU TO PUT YOUR (FEATHER-WEIGHT OR GIGANTIC AND MASSIVE) ITEM IN THE BAG ON THE SENSOR, BEFORE LETTING YOU GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE.
Of course I may just a little bitter. It is, though, almost gratifying to see my local Home Depot's self-checkout lines entirely abandonded, while the lines at the two open (manned) cash registers go winding through the isles. Gratifying to see it once or twice, that is, as the longer lines and moronic self-checkout machines make me shop at Lowes, now, where they have no self-checkout machines, few cashiers (more than two, of course) and yet practically never any waiting lines.
Your BLAME is Misplaced (Score:5, Insightful)
BUT worst of all, instead of one crappy layout system used by all stores, THEY ALL SUCK, BUT DIFFERENTLY. Name me one chain that has these machines well made? In time, someone will come up with a decent layout and everyone will adopt it and it will seem silly we had these problems but we're not there yet.
HERE's an idea, put stick on scan labels by all the veggies so once bagged they can just be weighed and scanned instead of having to key in the code by HAND -- WTF???. Make the labels big with not just the code but large with print of what the veggie is so people aren't too tempted to cheat the system. A computer voice should also echo the entry (I believe most systems already do this).
Many systems I have seen seem cobbled together from unrelated discrete components -- THIS WILL NOT DO.
I WORK IN SQA AND I WOULD NEVER SIGN OFF ON THIS SHIT! Forgive my language, but its us, the IT professionals to blame here -- NOT EVERYDAY FOLK who
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:5, Insightful)
The store is wasting my time so they can cut their head count. Fuck them.
They don't mention (Score:5, Insightful)
Cash and Carry (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:2, Insightful)
Lowes has no self checkout things and always has at least 4 people working to check you out. I have averaged at least $500 a week (sometimes a lot more) for the last year to get my stuff. I expect that if I am spending that much money somewhere every week to have some service. Because of this lack of service to save $7/hour, Home Depot has lost my business.
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:1, Insightful)
At one Albertson's they actually have a 9 item limit at the self-checkout. also in usual configurations they have 4 self-checkout stations and one person manning them.
Perhaps the places you've been going to have lower iq's, but I've always managed to get out faster than any of the regular checkout lines.
I also work at and use several libraries that use the self-checkout machines and these help a great deal as we are always overloaded between checking things in, and out.
Oh and at the Albertson's there are stands with baskets that have loads of overpriced goodies. I've bought chips, candy, and fruit pies oh my!
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:5, Insightful)
In most places where self-checkout is available (Home Depot, Albertson's, to name two) you'll find that most people are purchasing many more items than self-checkout was designed for, yet there is no sign indicating a suggested item limit for best results...they've always driven me crazy because I try to move too fast for them - so I hear a lot of "Please place item in the bagging area" and "you have removed an item from the bagging area, then it locks up and the cashier has to come over anyway.
I think it's fine for it's intended purpose, but trained, competent, (dare I say union) checkers are far more efficient and I'm hoping that will deter grocery chains from deploying too many of these self-checkout lanes. A store with only self-checkout? Well, that'd be a store with a lot of fistfights.
Re:I hate self checkout lines (Score:2, Insightful)
All money inflows and outflows must balance at the end of the fiscal period.
There is no money flowing into oblivion as your analysis would suggest. Increased efficiency is better for the economy as a whole regardless of initial distribution. In the long run, the decreased costs from increased efficiency will be passed on to the consumer when companies are forced to compete for business. Also, some people may lose their jobs to these machines, but that does not mean suddenly all that money has gone away.
For the time being, it travels into the company as profits. (See previous note about eventual passing on of savings to consumer.) What is this company going to do with this money you ask?
Anyways.. the point is that money never disappears as a result of a transaction. Every person's and every business's balance sheet has to balance at the end of the day. It's just that simple. You can not spend what you do not have. And you can not use the money you made unless you give it to someone else (Note: burning your money doesn't usually provide good results, though you are helping to reduce inflation).
Re:I hate self checkout lines (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Your BLAME is Misplaced (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: unpaid labor... (Score:3, Insightful)
Wait...
Re:unpaid labor... (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps self-checkout should have a 3% price reduction?
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:My experience (Score:1, Insightful)
Too bad none of the sales in a supermarket are ever related to how much money the store is saving. If there is a Buy-One, Get-One sale going on (aka 50%-off sale), the vendor from which the supermarket is getting the product is offering rebates to allow that price. It has nothing to do with how much money they save. And you have to remember, the vast majority of grocery store chains are on the market; if you save them $157,680 dollars, then instead of lowering prices, they're gonna give it to the shareholders to make them happy. Rarely, if ever, will you see cost-cutting come back to reward the consumer.
Re:I hate self checkout lines (Score:3, Insightful)
I know you're trying to be clever, but your argument is indeed correct. In general, natural disasters are net positive for the economy, as the temporary loss of economic activity is offset by the future rebuilding and enhanced productivity. War (that doesn't happen on your soil) is similar. The largest YoY % changes in US GDP in the 20th century happened in the early 40's, as WWII helped pull the US out of the Great Depression.
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:5, Insightful)
The store is wasting my time so they can cut their head count. Fuck them.
I completely disagree and find your closing statement to not only be ignorant but assinine.
If you have items in your basket that you know you will have difficulty with at the self-check line don't use the self-check line. It's not like they're forcing you to. It's there as a convenience to the shopper.
I for one love the self-check lines. Yes there are people who create bottlenecks, but the longer these devices are in service the more customers who will become accustomed to useing them. And I believe the reason why they often appear abandoned (as someone else mentioned) is not because they're not being used but rather because they are so fast that people spend very little time there. Stand for an hour and watch for yourself during a busy time (perhaps around 6pm on weekdays? I honestly don't know their highwater times) and I'm sure you'll find that a lot of customers breeze through the self-check lines. Someone with more initiative than myself could even check to see the 'rate of items scanned' by the cluster of self-checks monitored by one employee versus an employee-operated checkout line. Our Kroger (grocery store) has four self-checks with one employee - I would imagine during busy hours the throughput of four self-checks is about 50% faster than a single lane employee-operated checkout. In self-check you're dealing with a bunch of smaller quantities, less nimble operators, and a bunch more transactions which take roughly the same amount of time no matter who's operating the machine. But it's all going four at a time.
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:2, Insightful)
I bet you could also convince the store's cashiers to quit as a form of protest. Then you could even burn down the building in protest! and piss on the ashes!
Is overboard a strong enough word for this?
Re:Stick on scan patches.. (Score:2, Insightful)
I think some of the other problems mentioned in these comments break down into common sense. Do hardware stores really need self-checkout lanes? Did anyone with any training in technical design and usability look this checkout process over? Self-checkout lanes make a lot of sense (to me) in grocery stores where the customer isn't likely to buy extremely light or extremely bulky goods (though both of these exist in grocery stores, I admit), but grocery stores seem prone to placing the change dispenser/receipt printer as far away from the scanner as possible, and in the hardest-to-find places. Sometimes it seems like corporations lack common sense even more than the average person.
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:People aren't stupid the machines are horrible (Score:3, Insightful)
The few times I've had the "pleasure" of using the self-scan machines, it was the machine that was slow as a turtle. I scan one item, put it down, scan the next immediately... "Please place the first item in the bagging area." It's there, you freakin' machine! So I have to pick it up and put it back down, then scan the second item again. If I ever scan one item within a second of putting the previous one down, I get to do the dance all over again. The... machine... forces... me... to... go... slow...
The only time I'll use those stupid machines is when I have exactly one item and there's no line. Otherwise, I'll wait for a human cashier. The human line may take longer on a busy day, but it saves me a huge amount of frustration.
Of course, at the stores I usually go to I've also learned which cashier's line never to get in, even if it is the shortest. These must be the people the machines are geared for, 'cause damn they're slow!
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:5, Insightful)
Mostly, b/c people in America have no faith that rational, reasonable complaint will receive any attention whatsoever. It is an inherent part of the culture that "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". If you don't make people, corporations, government, etc. pay attention to you, they will not. And to be honest, sometimes this is true. The problem is that mouth-breathers dimly grasp this truth, and then go and misapply it in inappropriate situations in inappropriate manners.
Re:Breaking Unions is priceless (Score:2, Insightful)
Surely you must be joking, who would consider hitting buttons like a monkey on Jolt watching crap going by on a moving belt a career? Maybe a "job for life" but certainly not a career. How many little boys or girls say to their parents, "When I grow up I want to be a checkout clerk!"
But, there is a bright side, unlike software development, cashiering cannot be outsourced.
Re:Stick on scan patches.. (Score:3, Insightful)
- Reduced theft. It eliminates a temptation for people who might otherwise try to cheat the scales. Not only is theft expensive, but investigation and prosecution are also expensive, and they engender hard feelings amongst everyone involved -- both the alleged thief and any other store patrons who witness store security having to confront a little old lady trying to shave a dollar off the price of grapes.
- Reduced operational costs. Those stickers that print out are expensive! Thermal stickers can cost over ten cents each for the blank stock. No stickers are needed if the register weighs the merchandise.
- Reduced maintenance costs. The scales cost almost as much per year to cover on a maintenance contract as a whole cash register. The scanner/scales at the register only add incrementally to the cost of a register's maintenance contract; it's not nearly as much as maintaining a parts depot for a completely different machine. Don't ask me why the service companies price things the way they do, we just take advantage of it when we can.
- Increased shelf space. Setting aside 6 square feet for a scanner and small work table removes 6 feet of shelf space that could otherwise be offering merchandise for sale. Stores figure their sales on a square foot basis, and those six feet could theoretically be generating something like a thousand dollars per year or more if they held products instead of a scale.
It's all economics. Someone did the math, so that's where it ended up.Re:Amen brother! We need a special lane (Score:3, Insightful)
Try making fewer trips to the store. You must spend most of your week going back and forth to the market. If you know you go through so much lube a month just buy it ahead of time.
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:4, Insightful)
You just got me all hot.
The time saved is your discount (Score:2, Insightful)
One thing I'm definitely not going to do is stand in a long line in order to "force" the store into giving discounts for self-checkout. My time is more valuable to me than that.
--Tony
Mystery solved! (Score:3, Insightful)
They cost less to install.
Management doesn't use self-checkout.
Re:Amen brother! We need a special lane (Score:3, Insightful)
additionally, if you're buying a weeks worth of fruit, it's a good idea to buy at varying levels of ripeness. that way you can eat them when they're properly ripe.
Re:Rarely (Score:1, Insightful)
...this is why I shop at Trader Joe's now!!! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:3, Insightful)
Wait until Wal-Mart does RFID right. There won't be any checker because you just push the entire cart straight through an RFID reader and swipe your ATM card through it. That's what people what to use self-check out for not for some stupid 10 or less items. We want to use it for a cart load of stuff at a time.
On the topic of bad ATM design.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course, the other way to solve the problem is to put a magnetic strip on both sides of the debit card.. but I haven't seen that done yet either.
Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs (Score:4, Insightful)
Then the parking lot robot will help you load it into your flying car.
Seriously, they will never allow batch checkouts like that because it's simply too easy to take the tags off some items and pass it through in a full cart. People also want bags (you can't take the cart home), and unless you shop at Costco, someone else is going to do it. So what'll happen probably is that you'll get a bagger that bags stuff coming off a conveyer belt that you put your items on (and thus pass through a scanner), and that they'll probably have to manually intervene every dozen items or so. My bold prediction is it won't get any more advanced than that for at least 20 years.
Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Breaking Unions is priceless (Score:2, Insightful)