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Horde Paladins and Alliance Shaman in WoW Expansion 153

Posted by Zonk
from the confused-little-dwarf dept.
Gamespot has the news that Blizzard will be allowing 'crossover' classes with the new races promised for the Burning Crusade expansion. The Paladin class, up until now an Alliance class, will be allowed for the Horde race of Blood Elves. Likewise, the Alliance Draenei will be able to choose the Horde Shaman class. From the article: "According to Blizzard, Horde paladins and Alliance shamans will have many of the same talents of their traditional counterparts, though they "will also enjoy some unique abilities to themselves, similar to the priest class' racial specialties." Since this new feature will fundamentally change the asymmetry between the game's two factions, it will presumably have a significant impact on the way the game is played, especially in competitive player-versus-player combat." It's also likely to somewhat balance the preference between the two factions. A pretty race for the Horde, and what is considered (by some) a very powerful class for the Alliance.
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Horde Paladins and Alliance Shaman in WoW Expansion

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  • NOO! (Score:5, Funny)

    by CharAznable (702598) on Friday July 21, 2006 @01:53PM (#15758480)
    Speaking as a Tauren Shaman, I wouldn't want to face someone who has Windfury and Frostshock.
  • by GundamFan (848341) on Friday July 21, 2006 @02:04PM (#15758584)
    and I saw this comming... this is a sad day for creativity in gaming. Just making everyone identical is not a good way to balance a game. If WoW ever had a soul it has officaly lost it.
    • You don't even play WoW? Doesn't that make your belief that the game is losing its soul unfounded?
      • by GundamFan (848341) on Friday July 21, 2006 @02:36PM (#15758864)
        Perhaps... but then again I know enough people who strongly advocate the game to imply it at least had a soul at some point and heavy handed game balance changes with no respect for the established game world story or "fluff" as some call it is high on my list of ways MMOGs can lose there souls.

        If the game still appeals to you feel free to play it... I will likely never touch it if this is how the developer choses to go about changing there game.
        • I know enough people who strongly advocate the game to imply it at least had a soul at some point and heavy handed game balance changes with no respect for the established game world story or "fluff" as some call it is high on my list of ways MMOGs can lose there souls.

          It seems your followup is unfounded as well. ;) Since the alliance is gaining these talents through the introduction of *new* races the existing storyline is not being disrupted, existing races have not been altered. The storyline expands
          • Ahh yes but where they (Blood Elves) compatible with Holy magic? My point is only that they are shoehorning this change in to pasify the player base, all MMOs do this and it saddens me when it happens.
            • There is nothing to suggest that Blood Elves would be incompatible with ANY kind of magic. They crave magic. They are sustained by it, and they are driven mad by it. I woulndn't think a Blood Elven druid would even be out of the question, as they wouldn't hestitate to bend nature magic to their will.

            • Strictly from a AD&D prespective, who says your pally has to be good? Personally, I've played several pallies who were lawful evil and whose daily activites involved sacrificing people to their god(s) to keep their unholy abilites...

              Now, speaking as somebody who plays WoW, It'll be interesting how this changes the game dynamic.
    • by RsG (809189) on Friday July 21, 2006 @02:52PM (#15759024)
      Actually, as an ex-WoW player, I disagree.

      Everybody could see this coming a mile off. The alliance whines that shamans are overpowered and the horde whines that paladins are as well. There is a clear case of "the grass is always greener" going on, and it's pervasive.

      The easiest way to fix this is to give each side the so-called "overpowered" class that the other side gets, thereby completely eliminating the complaints that the developers are favouring one faction over the other.

      It does make the two sides even more similar, but let's be honest, they were never that different to begin with. WoW hasn't had radically different factions since it was in beta; making the faction specific classes available to both sides at this late stage won't make the slightest bit of difference in terms of faction identity.

      I should clarify that I played both sides, and both classes (among others). The claim that either side is over/under powered is complete bunk. About the only concern that I see as valid is the complaint that paladins are completely boring and passive to play ("Paladins are to gameplay as porn is to sex" sums that up nicely), and that doesn't impact their performance, so it isn't a balance issue.
      • I should clarify that I played both sides, and both classes (among others). The claim that either side is over/under powered is complete bunk. About the only concern that I see as valid is the complaint that paladins are completely boring and passive to play ("Paladins are to gameplay as porn is to sex" sums that up nicely), and that doesn't impact their performance, so it isn't a balance issue.

        Realize that I don't really care either way, but you seem to ignore the fact that a more fun to play class that
      • "About the only concern that I see as valid is the complaint that paladins are completely boring and passive to play ("Paladins are to gameplay as porn is to sex" sums that up nicely), and that doesn't impact their performance, so it isn't a balance issue."

        Nah they're exciting to play!

        "Can I have BoW not BoK"

        "BoK please"

        "BoS please"

        "BoW is going out"

        "Where's my damn BoK!"
        • I am often the only paladin on raids. I feel your pain. But you just have to be a little more assertive.

          "Can I have BoW not BoK"
          "Only if you can convince the other four hunters."

          "BoK please"
          "Wait a couple minutes till I have to rebuff everyone."

          "BoS please"
          "No. Try waiting for assist call, you won't get eaten."

          "BoW is going out"
          "We're clearing trash still, and you're FM. Summon yourself some water and get over it."

          "Where's my damn BoK!"
          "Haven't cast it. Quit being pushy or heals wil
      • but paladins _are_ overpowered. :P
      • I play WoW a lot more then I care to admit, and am in a fairly high level raiding guild and keep up with the others.

        At this level, it's pretty much a given that Paladins are overpowered. Let me try to explain:

        1. PvE

        Paladins completly skew almost every raid encounter to the game to the alliance because Blessings are ridicluous compared to totems. 10% Buff to every stat of every player. 30% reduction of threat. Savaltion's 30% to raid compared to Tranquil Air's 20% to party is no contest, ignoring the fa
        • Blah blah blah.

          I'm in an unusual position in that I have a lvl 60 shammy, and a lvl 60 pally, so I know both classes pretty damn well. Sure pallys have advantages in PvE...At lvl 60, if you're specced anything except holy or protection, they treat you like crap. Your forced to pure support. Buffs and heals, buffs and heals. And don't spout bubble crap at me, because the bubble is fricking worthless. It's good for one full heal, la de da, and the other bubble is laughable, pally drops that on his warrior fri
        • You know, it's funny. I was just joking with someone that we should bet on who would post a response arguing game balance first - someone who thinks shamans are overpowered or someone who thinks paladins are. It's a good thing we didn't make a real bet, or I'd have lost; I'd assumed someone with an axe to grind about shamans would respond first.

          I'll ask you what I've asked others in the past: If [insert class here] is overpowered, then why don't you play one? And if you do play one, why don't you tell al
          • >>I'll ask you what I've asked others in the past: If [insert class here] is overpowered, then why don't you play one?

            Where did I ever say overpowered? Paladins are flat out better then Shaman for Raid PVE, if you disagree post a counterargument instead of a taunt.

            As for why I don't play one -- it's because I've tried and found them boring.

            >>If you're so knowledgable about WoW class balance, then how come what is obvious to you isn't obvious to the developers? Shouldn't the people who created t
            • Where did I ever say overpowered? Paladins are flat out better then Shaman for Raid PVE, if you disagree post a counterargument instead of a taunt.

              To answer the second part first, it wasn't intended as a taunt. I'm just weary of hearing these arguements put forward by both sides; it gets very very old after hearing "[paladins/shamans] are better than [shamans/paladins] for the following long list of reasons" for the umpteenth time.

              As for where you said that paladins are overpowered, re-read your post. You

              • Have you heard from any alliance raiding guilds? They say the exact opposite.

                It's undisputed on the horde side that paladins are better than shamans; it's undisputed on the alliance side that shamans are better than paladins. The grass is always greener....

                Funny, even the alliance guilds I've talked to will admit that paladins have far, far more raid utility than shamans. Compare BoW, which one paladin can give to every caster, to Mana Spring/Mana Tide, which one shaman can give to five casters, including

              • >> You also didn't answer my questions. Why aren't you playing a paladin? You obviously think highly of their abilities.

                Reread my post -- I've tried paladins, I found them boring.

                >> Have you heard from any alliance raiding guilds? They say the exact opposite.

                I play Alliance.

                >> It's undisputed on the alliance side that shamans are better than paladins.

                I have yet to find a serious alliance raiding guild that would rather have Shaman then Paladins. In fact, in our own guild when were disc
          • I'm avoiding weighing in the class debates because I'm not too avid a WoW player lately and have only briefly played a paladin. But speaking as someone who's played a lot of games and who works on a few (admittedly very tiny) ones, I've got to counter some of your statements.

            'll ask you what I've asked others in the past: If [insert class here] is overpowered, then why don't you play one? And if you do play one, why don't you tell all the people who are conviced the class is weak how it is you play? Becaus

            • Not everyone wants to play the same thing as everyone else. You may enjoy playing a character type and just be frustrated that you can never seem to win in certain situations. Also, if you do play that class you may not like it being overpowered anyway. A lot of people like to be challenged.

              True. However, such arguements are rarely put forward by the people who are complaining about a given class. When someone complains about a class in an MMO, it usually means that they either feel threatened by it, or t

              • Okay, I can understand where you're coming from. As I said, I don't have detailed knowledge of these particular issues, it's just that sometimes people use arguments like yours above as dangerous generalities. In this specific instance they appear to apply, though.
    • by PMuse (320639)
      It's a well-known sign of the apocalypse. Every gaming system starts out with a few cool options (e.g. paladinhood) that are only available to certain characters. While the game system is new, everything is fine. Players pine for permission to create ever more potent combinations, but the game masters hold their ground and maintain order.

      As the game system matures and options are added and tweaked, there is a progressive relaxation of the old restrictions. Eventually, the players get their way and anyth
      • Wow, that is perhaps the most insightful thing I have ever read about the MMOG industry. It is a shame when the game you are currently playing starts down that path (I have been lucky so far with CoH).
        • I don't know, with CoH you can argue that the game designers remade the whole "low power" part of the game system when they introduced Enhancement Diversification.

          For the 90% of Slashdotters who are wondering what I just said. In the old system you were able to boost the power/effectiveness of anything you did by 200% (three times as powerful). In the new system the cap was lowered to just under 100% (twice as powerful), which completely changed the dynamic of the game. The devs also cut the base effec
    • This is Warcraft we're talking about, asymmetrical sides wouldn't be true to the source material.
    • ... shows the ignorance of your comment.

      Players have whined and whined and fucking whined that Paladins and Shamans are too different and need to balance better between each other. In other words, they were effectively asking for them to be the same.

      Instead of destroying two classes to make the one class that might keep people quiet, they decide the best way around it, while still keeping the uniqueness in both classes, is to allow both factions access to it. No more complaints that the Horde get over
  • With 9 classes instead of 8, it's going to be more difficult to create a well-balanced raid group. I think eventually the paladin will simply phase out the shaman in end-game horde raids.
  • *sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Krater76 (810350) on Friday July 21, 2006 @02:09PM (#15758636) Journal
    I frankly don't really care who gets what, I'm just disappointed in Blizzard.

    I've played a Shaman to 60 and enjoyed it. It was the uniqueness of the class that made Horde stand out. The dungeon 1 shoulders are unmistakable, you know it's a shaman. In PvP a shaman is really fun to play due to the high survivability and DPS, although melee was nerfed somewhat in the last patch.

    On the other hand, I found it unique to also fight against a class I couldn't group with. Paladins are a special challenge, especially against my rogue. Their gear is mostly gold, so you can really see them coming as well.

    This just seems like a cop-out by a company that used to do innovation very well. They supposedly class-reviewed the shaman and for some reason gave them PvP buffs (especially with their offensive spell tree) when shaman were asking for more PvE utility. Horde in the end game is tougher than Alliance and the pally/shaman issue is the reason. So instead of coming up with a good idea or listening to the customers who had some great ideas to help shaman out, they just ignore the whole thing and give the Horde paladins, and Alliance shaman.

    It'll take months after the expansion for either to make their presences truly felt but I guess Blizzard is just trying to scape a couple extra months of playtime out of an increasingly boring game.
    • http://www.wowdetox.com/ [wowdetox.com] is a place where plenty people disapointed in Blizzard have expressed their reasons why.
    • Astonished (Score:3, Interesting)

      by umbrellasd (876984)
      The thing that astonishes me the most (and I've played WoW off-and-on since the release day) is that it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for Blood Elves to be Paladins. These are the elves that broke with the night elf race due to their all consuming addiction to magic. Paladins draw their powers from divine sources and divine power is non-magical (if you don't play WoW or have familiarity with the backstory, this may not make sense). But anyway, it smacks of a slap-and-dash solution to an underlying
      • If they wanted they could invent a "new" class that is just a pally with different names on everything and a different lore to it.
    • This just seems like a cop-out by a company that used to do innovation very well.

      Blizzard was never really known for innovating, but rather for refining other companies' innovations to the point of perfection.

    • The problem is.. how would you have fixed the shaman? The design for the shaman was broken at the core, and only an entirely new design would have been able to fix it, that is, taking away totems completely and replacing them with something else. Even "raid wide totems" would have been a crappy solution. As long as the shaman stood opposite the paladin, they had to be given the same utility or else one faction or the other would have a major advantage in that area that the utility serves. In the case of pal
    • This just seems like a cop-out by a company that used to do innovation very well. They supposedly class-reviewed the shaman and for some reason gave them PvP buffs (especially with their offensive spell tree) when shaman were asking for more PvE utility.

      The funny part is the paladins had a similar situation. All they wanted were a few pvp buffs, and the devs buffed holy (healing) during the paladin review, and basically said screw off to retribution and protection paladins.

      I think the paladins have
  • More information from Blizzard.
  • Approved (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I, for one, welcome our new Space Shaman overlords.
  • by pezpunk (205653) on Friday July 21, 2006 @02:24PM (#15758766) Homepage
    Shamans are almost useless in end-game raids, when you can have paladins instead!

    Shamans for the alliance will be a nice novelty, but ultimately a white elephant in dungeons. they will be quite a nice addition for burst damage in pvp though.

    on the horde side, the raiding shamans will see their roles marginalized by new paladins.
    • Won't be useless if totems stack with auras...
      • Are you going to sacrifice the slots in the raid, though, for yet-another support class? It was already hard enough to get into a raid as a Shaman as there were only so many slots for support classes in it. Now there will be more competition because Paladins are unarguably the superior of the two classes on many raids. I had a 60 Shaman and it was hard to get into raids because there are only so many support slots available and you want to take better geared Shaman if one is available.
        • Well, it depends. I can see paladins taking away Shaman slots as well as priest. Going on numbers alone, two paladins and a shaman could make a few priests (and themselves) almost never go OOM and never draw agro (totem with blessing would give 36% agro reduction and something like 48mana/5 sec (assuming 1MT/5min during bosses). That's pretty powerful. Of course, we'll have to see what kind of content the expansion gives us. Maybe the content there will require both shaman and paladins. What pisses me off
        • by the time alliance shammies and horde pallies get to 60, most people will be well on their way to 70. Matter of fact I'd be willing to bet that most people will be more worried about getting their mains and existing alts to 70 before bothering with the new classes/races. BWL will be much easier to pwn with a 40 man group full of lvl 70's, and on to AQ40 and Naxx
    • Exactly. First thing I thought when I heard this news: "Death of PvE Shamans"
    • I.e. Alliance will finally be able to camp just outside low-level towns and gank with impunity, just like horde does now. Fantastic gameplay there! I play alliance, and if you're on a server with even a SLIGHT imbalance towards horde, leveling becomes painful at about lvl 20, due to high level horde running around ganking lowbies. And yes, its usually shaman.
      • Play Horde for a bit, and see if the same thign doesn't happen. I've played both, and both sides camp each other's lowbie towns. They ought to set up some freaking alliance vendors at the Crossroads, and at Taren Mill.
      • "if you're on a server with even a SLIGHT imbalance, leveling becomes painful at about lvl 20, due to high level twinks running around ganking lowbies."

        I fixed your typos for you. This is an inherent problem, not an alliance/horde issue. I have played both horde and alliance for hundreds of hours, on pvp and rp servers. There was a nice orc hunter once that just shooed me away, but otherwise...
    • Shamans for the alliance will be a nice novelty, but ultimately a white elephant in dungeons. they will be quite a nice addition for burst damage in pvp though. on the horde side, the raiding shamans will see their roles marginalized by new paladins.

      Odds are PvE groups are going to take both. Despite the shamans crying of late, their totems are valued in PvE. Why would you take paladin #4 in place of a shaman? Most classes only need 2-3 paladin buffs. Kings on everyone, Salvation on everyone but tan
  • In related news..... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Goobergunch (876745)
    WoW forums explode. Incidentally, Blizzard information page [worldofwarcraft.com] containing lore about the announcement.
  • Doesn't Fit.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Renraku (518261) on Friday July 21, 2006 @02:44PM (#15758952) Homepage
    A Horde Paladin? Paladins are against everything evil, bad, unholy, etc. Half the horde is considered evil bad and/or unholy. What's next? Undead paladins? Gnome shamans?
    • The Scarlet Crusade is considered as an enemy to both factions of the game and they contain of Paladins.
      • The Scarlet Crusade was turned against the Alliance just to make the game more balanced. I mean how would the Horde like it if ZG were green to them instead of killable?
    • Re:Doesn't Fit.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by lgw (121541) on Friday July 21, 2006 @02:58PM (#15759078) Journal
      Does the Horde consider themselves Evil, or is that just Alliance propaganda? I thought that one of the fundamentals of the Warcraft world was that both Horde and Alliance see themselves as the good guys, with only the undead being objectively evil. But then, I don't play WoW, so maybe the lore has changed?
      • Re:Doesn't Fit.. (Score:3, Informative)

        by MBGMorden (803437)
        Even the undead aren't necessarily all evil. There's even one undead (Forsaken) who's a member of the Argent Dawn (who if you don't play, is a group dedicated to fighting and pushing back the invasion of the Scourge/Burning Legion).
    • by gclef (96311)
      Gnome Druids. You know you want them. (Forms: Hedgehog, Goldfish, Weasel)
    • I see that you're one of those who feels that knights who are devoted adherents of their alignment and champions of their people should only gain special powers if that alignment happens to be lawful good.
    • RTFA. The Blood Elves captured a being of the Light and bent its energies to their will. They basically stole the abilities of a Paladin from its source. Both Thrall and Cairne objected, but conceded they were strategically useful.

      That being said, I dislike this, a lot. On a playability level, I agree it's a cop-out on the part of Blizzard, removing any uniqueness from the game. On the lore side, it leaves a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach - how does one corrupt the ultimate source of goodness
      • I had this same thought too, at first. But, having played an undead warlock who summons demons and shoots shadow bolts, I always found it odd that alliance had warlocks who would fight alongside paladins. If the alliance can bend shadowy forces to do their bidding, then why can't horde use holy magic? (They have holy priests, after all, no?)
      • Only the Night Elves are connected to nature. If any Alliance class were to get the Shaman class it would be them. Draenai being connected to nature? Their capital is going to be a crashed fucking spaceship.
    • A Horde Paladin? Paladins are against everything evil, bad, unholy, etc. Half the horde is considered evil bad and/or unholy. What's next? Undead paladins? Gnome shamans?

      The light is not what you think it is. Do you have similar objections to Holy-specced undead priests?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 21, 2006 @02:45PM (#15758965)
    From Eyonix, a Blizzard employee:

    "Something we have always held to as a core design philosophy is developing classes which are distinct from each other. This means developing a class with it's own abilities that clearly separate it from other classes in terms of how the class plays and operates, both for the player and from a design stand-point.

    Early on in the inception of this game, it was a hot debate as to whether factions should have a specific class, which they alone have access to. Some wanted all classes to be distinct from each other, but accessible by all. Others thought that more flavor could be generated by keeping a class unique to a faction. Obviously, if you have one side with a unique class, you should probably give the other faction a unique class as well. Thus, Shaman and Paladins became those unique classes.

    However, by linking them in a relationship as unique counter-points, options are closed for our main design goal, which is to keep classes distinct. We want factions to be balanced, but don't want to cut and paste abilities from one to the other and homogenize the classes. If we went that road, there would be little difference or need for a distinct class. We want classes to be different in more than just name-only or superficial appearances.

    So, in our desire to keep the classes distinct and open up new possibilities for development of each class, shaman and paladins shall now be a playable class for both factions. This decision comes at a time when we have an opportunity to blend this decision into future development. Namely, with the new races in the upcoming expansion. Prior to the new races, the Paladin and Shaman lent themselves easily to their own factions and not that well to the opposite faction (Tauren Paladin? Gnome Shaman?) With the advent of the two additional races, the choice was made more clear in game design and lore.

    In terms of game design, one of the options it opens up is for specific classes in dungeon encounters. We already have several encounters that highlight the abilities of a single class or make use of a classes specific abilities. Shaman and Paladins in the previous design could not participate in such encounters. If killing a creature required a Shaman, the Alliance could never beat the encounter and vice versa. This change allows the two classes to bring their own abilities into a situation which may highlight their class as an integral part of the encounter."

    This is actually one of the few official responses from Blizz that I see as legit. Hopefully they can give the paladin and the shaman some really cool and distinct new abilities in the expansion.
    • Please, one of their original design goals before they were overrun with ex-EQ developers was that no class would be a 'pure support' class. Which is exactly what paladins are in the end game. This is the typical blizzard spin, much like Caydiem saying that 'A talents position in a talent tree really doesn't matter, talents are just there to give players more options, not make them more powerful as they move up a tree'. Now take that statement, and think about mortal strike as a tier 1 talent, or shadowf
  • "How to make money from WoW" ads. Real money item and gold buyers don't add anything to a game (except very easily beaten high levels :P).
  • A copout. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Halloran (182820)
    This isn't to "expand play opportunities across factions", its to ease the burden on the designers of having to constantly tweak existing content for two separate play dynamics, not to mention this constant cry by the player-base to balance the Paladin against the Shaman.

    The ugliness will begin when the loot tables for both sets are turned on, and guilds that do MC/BWL content start seeing drops wasted by a month or more of Paladin loot for the Horde, or Shaman loot for the Alliance, before the classes are
    • I'd tend to think of it the opposite way. As it stands, and as someone else posted above from Eyonix, there are certain encounters in the game that require certain class abilities. There are some encounters that are made easier by having Shamans or Paladins, but rarely can both fill the same role. It's been said countless times that Paladins are a huge advantage in PvE, for the number of beneficial abilities they bring to the table, as plate wearing healers with a number of auras and dispel abilities. S
      • In my opinion, the unfortunate thing is the laying down of a particular sequence of tactics to win a fight in the first place. This isn't a personal attack because I know you're not responsible for it ;) But really, maybe the developers should have looked more at making encounters unpredicatable and doable with a variety of tactics than the One True Way.

  • In a thousand years it will be interesting to see what Digital Archealogists make of all of these postings. Most likely the fundmentalists be searching for the remains of one of these unique cross-over classes and arguing against the 'imaginists' who believe that all of this was just a highly ritualized social interaction.
  • That seals it (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by stlhawkeye (868951)
    I'm sooooo glad I got out of WoW. As is usually the case with these games, the first year or so is the "glory era," after which everything that made the game fun is slowly eroded away. I went through this with EQ, DAoC, and now WoW. Even the stupid bugs and stuff didn't bother me. It was new and different and fun to explore, but the longer the game marches on, the more insane content and bad ideas find their way into the game. Cheerio, World of Warcraft.
  • I hate to add to all the QQ, but WoW just became a little more boring. They should be adding two more classes unique to each faction rather than merge them together.
  • this is about the stupidest idea ive heard

    blood evles as paladins?
  • Ex-WoW player here. Can't say I'm surprised. Nor can I say that it'll end ANY whining. Heck, it'll give people new causes to complain.
    Now the Alliance people can complain that the Horde pallies are overpowered, and the Horde people can complain that the Alliance shamans are overpowered. And thus, we have balance. Until the "nerfbats" come out (which everyone but the warriors really bitch about... because the warriors can always find better gear).

    The primary 'good' thing I can see coming out of this is
  • by The Living Fractal (162153) <banantarr.hotmail@com> on Friday July 21, 2006 @03:20PM (#15759250) Homepage
    I play WoW. Not a lot, like I used to, but I still play. I intend to get the expansion and I think I will enjoy it, even though I am a casual player these days. I'm even considering getting another account so I can dual box. It makes solo'n a lot more fun and the money is immaterial to me. I've played since beta so I have a pretty good knowledge base of the game (been in a hardcore raiding guild for a while now, one which is consistently in competition for furthest advanced on our server, Windrunner). I was the second person on my server to hit level 60 in my class (Warlock).

    All that said, I think people who are whining that both Horde and Alliance will be basically the same now (in endgame) are making assumptions.

    First, the Horde Paladin will not be identical to the Alliance Paladin. The same goes for the Shaman on each side. The new racial abilities will see to it that they are different in a meaningful way. If there's one thing I know about racials in WoW, they ARE relevant. Take Perception for humans, WotF for Undead, and Escape Artist for gnomes as just three examples of how racials are useful. I promise that Blizzard will make the new racials quite useful as well. And on top of that there will be specific skills, like the Priest class has, which are unique to the new cross-overs. For example, undead horde priests have Devouring Plague, which is a pretty good Drain Over Time. Nobody else has that.

    Well, ok then. So what about the problem with "evil" paladins? Uhm, what? Who said the Horde was really, inherently evil? Show me somewhere in the WoW Lore that says Horde are 'evil'. Tell me why the Argent Dawn would ally with Horde if they were? Just because they are at war with the Alliance makes them evil? I don't think so. So the Horde sees things differently than the Alliance, and so they clash... Take any number of real life examples and you see that two groups can be at war with each other and either none or both might be considered "evil". Sometimes it's very difficult in a war to see which side is right and which wrong.

    I wouldn't mind it, however, if the Horde Paladin, being Blood Elf specific, was given an extra word in the name, such as Crimson Paladin... But that's beside the point.

    From personal experience I have found that the people who tend to leave WoW are the ones who can't play along with others. They can't join a guild or don't want to because they just don't have a very agreeable personality. So they wind up playing alone. And they wind up watching as everyone else progresses and has a good time while they are still wearing the same old crappy blues, or whatever. Well, like I said, whine, bitch moan and sniffle. If you can't play well with others, WoW isn't for you.

    TLF

    • Horde aren't evil, hmm?

      So you missed how the Blood Elves got their newfound Paladin powers by capturing and *draining* them from a Holy being?

      Or about the Forsaken doing experiements on prisoners, killing sleeping Druids in barrow dens, killing people in Southshore to get innocent blood for experiements, and the whole attempt to create a new plague to destroy the living and make them all Undead? ... Yeah, no evil there at all.
    • "From personal experience I have found that the people who tend to leave WoW are the ones who can't play along with others."

      That's such a hilarious generalization. You know some people leave because they get bored of it. Or don't care for the repetitive nature of the end game.
      I myself just got bored with it and I was a high up guild officer who played nicely with others. It was a bit hard to walk away from the social side of it, but in the end I wasn't enjoying myself much so I left. Saying that people who
    • 1. That screenshot is several months old. Things can change for unreleased products that are still in development.
      2. Blizzard has not said that Draenei don't have the option of being paladins in addition to being shamans, only that they do have the option of being shamans.
  • by MaineCoon (12585) on Friday July 21, 2006 @05:40PM (#15760241) Homepage
    *tunes musical instrument* To the tune of "I'm a little teapot"

    I'm a little paladin, short and stout! Here is my hammer, and my free mount!
    When I get in trouble, hear me shout! Just throw up my shield, and hearthstone out!

    Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week...

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