Music Industry Looking for Lyrics Payoff

theodp writes "U.S. digital entertainment company Gracenote has obtained licenses to distribute the lyrics of more than 1 million songs. Music publishers are still mulling legal action against Web sites that provide lyrics without authorization." From the article: "Ralph Peer II, Firth's counterpart at peermusic, said licensing lyrics should boost worldwide music publishing revenues, estimated at about $4 billion annually. Peer said he hopes the unauthorized sites will seek licenses. 'I think we'll see a reasonable increase, as much as a 5 percent increase, in industry music publishing revenues five years out from where we are right now,' Peer said."

Great...

[John Betonschaar]

Now all we need is some form of DRM that makes you pay every time you read the lyrics, or someone reads them to you. And then some lawsuits for people that steal the lyrics by transcripting, storing or sharing them with others... Because we all know you just cannot remember and or write down stuff you hear on television or radio, or even worse, save other people the hassle of having to write them down themselves...

It's 'bout time them lyrics-stealing pirate bastards start paying for their criminal behaviour...

It will happen

[Bogtha]

There's no way Gracenote would make a deal like this unless they had an agreement that the record companies would bludgeon Gracenote's competition to death with copyright. It's no problem for the record companies and it makes what they are licensing to Gracenote so much more valuable.

It will probably be easier than going after people who share MP3s - lyrics sites are generally ad-supported, with the ad providers like Google mentioning copyright problems in their terms & conditions, so there's no need for lawyers, just complain to the advertisers and "cut off their air supply".

This won't be the first time this has happened, either. Anybody remember lyrics.ch [wikipedia.org]? Raided by the police for telling people the words to songs! Does it get any more ridiculous?

Not unexpected really

[Heir Of The Mess]

Afterall the lyrics are copyrighted, the same as music, movies, and books, but it has been a nice way to track down "that song" that you heard on the radio by just typing a few of the lyrics you heard into Google. Well I guess that's dead. The music companies have shown they are willing to do anything to get every last cent they can using their old ways. Watching a subtitled music video has a lot of copyrights attached to it: The lyrics, the musical note order, the performance by the artist, the video, and potentially the font used to show the lyrics in the subtitles. From all the effort that has gone into producing those parts they need their due payment, afterall with rising fuel prices its getting very expensive to run enormous yaghts and exotic car collections.

Eventually the media companies are going to push too hard. Many big companies like to ride the line, and it seems legally that with the current political influence they have the media companies can keep on moving that line so they don't cross it. The question is, where has the consumer market set that line? People might express some negative feelings about record companines extorting money from single mothers living in poverty, but they still keep on buying, so I guess that line hasn't been reached yet either. There's too many other things to worry about these days...like not being able to post a comment on slashdot for 6+ hours because Database maintenance is taking place. Noooo!

Lyrics sites

[a_nonamiss]

I think this is just the music industry looking for revenue where they had previously written it off. Remember that they sued lyrics.ch (the original lyrics site) out of existance right before the MP3 phenomenon hit. Then when MP3's hit, people "stealing" lyrics (yeah, it even sounds funny...) looked like small potatoes compared to people "stealing" whole songs. Now that the've more or less accepted the fact that they're not going to be able to eliminate P2P completely, they're going after revenue wherever they can. I think it's going to be interesting to see them go after sites that are hosted in other (non Western friendly) countries. It'll be easy enough to take down the ones in the US, but I doubt they'll have much headway in Belize, Romania, Estonia, etc. They're having enough trouble with AllOfMP3.com, and that's in Russia. (I think)

YARSO-Yet Another Revenue Source from smth.Obvious

[DrYak]

From TFA :

They thought lyrics had been an untapped resource for them and there's quite a bit of lyrics being taken for free on the Web

In other words : someone with a highly paid job inside a big corporation woke-up from his mid-afternoon doze and suddenly had a new idea :
Let's start charging money for something as stupid and obvious as song lyrics [sing365.com]. Why haven't we though before ? There's so many new ways to rip money from our client base !

This license creates a new revenue stream which will guarantee that songwriters are paid for their work

More money for my pocket and we can use the image of a starving artist to instill guilt inside the client's head. Just hope they won't notice the pointlessness of some recent work.

Clearly, there are copyright issues involving these unlicensed sites, which are making good income through advertising and other sources, while the composers are not getting their due

Yeah, let's call all free-rider that did provide the same service on their website "Pirates".
They're pirate ! They're ripping money from our starving artists [wikipedia.org]. Think of the children, you terrorist !

Photocopying lyrics is killing the music indurty ! Pay us more for this service.
Let's launch suits against those pesky lyrics-pirate.

Are your dollars are belong to us !
You are on the way to legal actions !
Take off every 'Lawyer' !
For great justice and money !

Re:Ridiculous

[Datoyminaytah]

Actually, the point is, nobody is going to say, "I don't have to buy that CD because I downloaded the lyrics for free and now I can sing it to myself whenever I want to hear it."

this.foot.shoot();

[isomeme]

The most common way I discover new music is hearing it being played -- in a cafe or store, typically -- deciding I like the sound, and remembering a unique-sounding snippet of lyrics to Google later. That gives me the title and artist. From there I can buy the track on Rhapsody, or even buy the CD.

If they shut down the lyrics sites, I will buy much less music. Nice work there, RIAA.

Re:I can't decide

[CastrTroy]

I would love if the RIAA or whoever just set up one site, possibly with a few google text ads, or maybe a few simple banners, and offered the real official lyrics to all the songs in existence. Really, it wouldn't be that hard, and it would help people find music they had heard so they could buy it. It would be a nice change from all those crappy lyrics sites with popups, viruses, and other crap that you find while searching for something as simple as lyrics. I think that the music industry could make quite a bit of money just from the ads. Not to mention the added sales from people being able to find songs. Apple, Amazon and other sites who sell music could also pay a fee to work the results into their services, so that not only could people find song by band and song title, but also by the lyrics. I'm sure the customers would love it.

Re:idiots

[mrchaotica]

There was licensing for sheet music long, long before there was licensing for audio.

Bad move for music discovery

[Nerdposeur]

"...it has been a nice way to track down "that song" that you heard on the radio by just typing a few of the lyrics you heard into Google."

I do this all the time, and I disover new music that way. I certainly wouldn't pay to do it though - after all, I'm just deciding whether I like something enough to explore further. It's like this - hear it on the radio, search on Google, read lyrics of a few songs to get a feel for the band, maybe download a song or two (or listen to clips on Amazon), and if I'm still interested, buy something.

If I really enjoy music, a large part of that is because I like the lyrics. But I doubt I'd pay someone else to try out their product. You know, in some businesses, they pay YOU to try out the product.

As a musician, I put my lyrics up on my site for free so people can spend more time and thought on my songs, and perhaps be drawn to my site through search. Seems kinda obvious that this is a good thing for everyone.

The only plus I see to the Gracenote system is that "official" lyrics should be accurate. Personally I'd like to get them packaged with a download, so that if I'm listening to a song I can click and get the lyrics to come up with a bouncing ball on where I am in the song. Seems like that would be easy to program and add next to nothing to file size.

Re:idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

Tabs came under fire a long while back. The MPA (Music Publisher's Association I believe...) just up and decided that tabs (no matter how musically inaccurate they may be) were infringing on the sound of their copyrighted material. The head of the MPA went as far as to say he would push to have owners of tab sites fined AND jailed - needless to say, I don't think the latter has happened.

Anyway, this shut down many popular tab sites, most notably taborama.com (along with their forum on a different domain) and mxtabs.net. While Taborama remains closed, MXTabs argued that they pay music associations to licence the material on their site, and hence have the right to offer tabs and lyrics to users. They, along with most tab and lyrics sites, remain open.

As far as I know, the MPA really hasn't made any effort to actually enforce or take action on the threats they made. Most speculate that they just used the 'scare tatic' to get their way.

In my own personal opinion, the worries of these music associations is quite farfetched. Tab and lyrics sites are notorious for being somewhat inaccurate, which is scary considering that these groups are going after things that almost violate their copyright, although they may not always do so.

What' next? Lawsuits against people who happen to overhear their coworkers playing a CD in the cubicle next door? Against people who sing along with their favorite song? Against songwriters who use words in their songs that happen to appear in the songs of others ('love,' 'you,' 'the'...)? It's a slippery slope that we know the music industry is dying to tumble down.

Re:Here's a dodge...

[BetaJim]

You'd think publishers would realize that easy access to their lyrics makes their product more valuable, not less...

Absolutely! Easy access to song lyrics has also caused me to buy new music before. Numerous times when I'm listening to the radio in my car a rockin' song will play and the ignorant announcer never tells who the band was. My trick is to remember a phrase from the song and later type the phrase and the work lryics into google. This is how I discovered the White Strips.

Charging for lyrics seems to be a way for the recording industry to continue shooting themselves in the foot.

Re:YARSO-Yet Another Revenue Source from smth.Obvi

[tbannist]

Extortion, they don't care how the lyric sites come up with the money, they're going to be ordered to pay or face a lawsuit.

Allofmp3 sideline

[Monkeyboy4]

The big mistake you are making here is believing the media companies in thier false assertion (enforced with technology) that music or movies are different in different places in the world.

Just because there may be no law about exporting - which allofmp3.com asserts they are within the law - does not mean that it is illegal or unethical. The US has no law against the import of music, Russia has no law against export, so the transit is within the law.

The issue with allofp3.com is not the same as torrents, it is a bigger issue: how do we have soveriegn nations with diffefent laws coexist on the web without balkanizing the internet? Philosophers predictied teh end of hte nation-state with the advent of the internet, and what we are seeing is either that or the demise of our happy, open, universal internet

Re:Not unexpected really

[jandrese]

Actually, they have pushed hard enough for people to stop buying. Havn't you read about how music sales are down? Of course, they blame piracy, which makes them crack down even harder, causing more people to get disgusted and stop buying from them... Seriously, I hate being treated like a theif everytime I buy a CD, if they keep that up maybe I'll just become a thief and get the much better customer service available from illegal bootleggers.

Re:YARSO-Yet Another Revenue Source from smth.Obvi

[NeuroAcid]

Who will pay? Probably the same people who pay for ringtones.

Re:This is actually counterproductive

[BlueStrat]

"It's true. Proper musicians (read: who actually know how to read sheet music, not just tablature) will gladly pay for the original (read: not some crappy re-arrangement) copy of the sheet music, if only because it's that much more fun to be able to play the music, and know the hard work that goes into it. I would readily fork out some cash for the trumpet line from some of CAKE's music, or the whole score from other music. Tis a shame this will never happen, as I could (gasp!) record my own version to listen to. It's crap like this that makes me glad I don't like music past the year 2000, with a few notable exceptions. Sorry TMBG, Franz Ferdinand, and all you actually decent bands, I guess I won't bother to spend my hard earned cash on your good music, because that'd be funding idiocy that I can't stand."

Sorry, no offense, but I must take exception to the "Proper musicians.." statement. Reading sheet music does not a musician make. Tell me that Robert Johnson, BB King, etc. are not "proper" musicians. If you are a good enough musician, you don't *need* sheet music.

I've been playing guitar for 34 years, most of that in working bands. I've done plenty of cover tunes along the way and never once used (or needed) either sheet music or tablature to be able to play those covers. I learned to play sitting in front of a bare tuner/amp/phonograph chassis out of a junked out console stereo with old car radio 6 x 9's in shoeboxes stuffed with old socks for speakers, trying to play what I was hearing.

I play completely "by ear", and I can play anything after hearing it once or twice. I also write and arrange my own music, and learned tablature only 10-15 years ago, only so I could teach the other musicians in the band I happen to be in what I'm playing, or what the original artist is playing if it's a cover tune. I have a CD of original material out (and not doing bad) and all this with barely being able to tell a treble cleff from a bass cleff.

I've recently played a gig with Magic Slim & the Teardrops, opened for Anthony Gomes, as well as placing high in the International Blues Challenge.

I also know quite a few people that have degrees in music that nobody seriously considers a musician, some including themselves.

Sorry if I've ranted, but the "if you can't read music you're not a real musician" snobbery irritates me, and I usually find the worst offenders being college-educated failed musicians who are bitter about their lack of talent.

I'm not trying to imply that you fit that profile, I just want people to understand that some of the most gifted and talented musicians the world has known couldn't read a note of music, and that the "proper musicians read music" meme is far from correct.

Cheers!

Strat

Re:Great...

[TubeSteak]

AFAIK, there is not "Official" RIAA compliant version available whatsoever, but these people feel "they are above the law!" and just want to pull access to these sites, even though the song is the canonical source.

You do know that someone wrote the lyrics to that song.
That someone is not always the singer.

Either way, "Someone" owns the copyright to those words & recieves royalties for their work.

Just because it wasn't enforced in the past doesn't mean that the lyric copyright owner(s) can't crack down now.

It's been a long free ride, but it can end whenever the copyright holder(s) decides to make it so.

Re:YARSO-Yet Another Revenue Source from smth.Obvi

[hazem]

If I'm a good example of the casual user of lyrics, this will only cost them money.

A vast majority of the time when I'm looking for lyrics it's because I have just heard (or remember) a fragment of a song and want to know who wrote/performed it so I can buy it.

I sure as hell am not going to pay to search a database of lyrics just so I can then turn around to buy it. Why bother?

They're just going to lose sales from people like me.

Re:Oh noes, I'm in deep doodoo!

[Tatsh]

Is that because the book that came with the CD didn't have the lyrics?

There are countless times where I have bought a CD and wanted to know the lyrics to a song, and the book only had credits information. It makes me so mad. How do they expect us to sing (or maybe they don't want us to sing since we're not a licensed performer) a song if we can't understand the words or if the lyrics are not given to us?

I think many of these sites for lyrics are doing it because a lot of albums still get published with no lyrics in the included book. There are people correcting as well (a Wiki lyrics would be great for this) when there's no official lyrics printed anywhere (except in an overly expensive sheet book, who buys those for rap (yes they do make rap ones)?).

I think it's a similar situation with guitar tabs online. Although I hate these in general and never really used them (I learn by ear damnit, and you should try it someday!), plus more than half on these sites are wrong or poorly written IMO. But the thing is, the alternative is to buy the sheet book, but these generally cost $15 or more, the same or more than the cost of the CD. If they lowered the price on these sheet books to between $3 and $8 I would probably have more sheet books (although I still learn by ear 90% of the time, even if that includes taking the audio into Sound Forge and time stretching it to be slower).

Re:Oh noes, I'm in deep doodoo!

[BalanceOfJudgement]

How do they expect us to sing (or maybe they don't want us to sing since we're not a licensed performer) a song if we can't understand the words or if the lyrics are not given to us?

Don't you understand? It's ILLEGAL for you to sing the song in ANY form, even humming it to yourself in the shower, peppering in the words you know now and then. And you're going to jail for it too, because you're KILLING the music industry!

Re:Great...

[RobbieGee]

It's not just that it's a bit greedy of them, but it might not be in their best interest in the middle to long run. I can't even count the number of times that I've heard some part of a song I didn't know the title of, only to track it down by searching on the net and finding it through some open service. If it's not publicly accessible, it would be hard to get the results via google, and they have to be high on crack if they think I'm going to go to each and every label's website and use their own crappy search in an attempt to track down some mildly entertaining song.

Then again, when was the last time the recording industry did anything for the long term in favor of the short...