Why The U.S. PC Market is On The Decline 317
conq writes "BusinessWeek reports on the recent woes of Apple and Dell. One possible reason according to the article: 'imminent price wars'." From the article: "'There's a softness in the market that's building,' says Richard Shim, a senior research analyst at IDC. In the past two weeks, IDC cut its 2006 forecast for U.S. PC growth to 5.7%, from 6.8%. 'In '04 and '05 there was tremendous growth. In a market that's as mature as this industry is, there's no way you can maintain those levels.'"
Old PCs Still Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Old PCs Still Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Things work fine, nothing new has come out to entice people into thinking they need a new system and people are "content" with their install of Windows XP.
(exactly)^2 (Score:4, Interesting)
Vista is a great name for MS's next OS: Chance I would use it is WAY off in the distance.
-KB
Re:Old PCs Still Good and Net same speed (Score:5, Insightful)
That reminds me of my son's reaction when we brought home his new Mac mini with LCD flatscreen - the last computer I got him was an iMac, 8 years ago. We plug it in, connect it, and go on the Net.
His first reaction to the better graphics, faster CPU is "the Internet's not faster".
Duh
Hence, why bother upgrading? The Net won't go any faster. Sure, maybe you'll get cooler graphics, or better resolution, but in the end if you spend 90 percent of your time online, you won't see much difference.
So a "slump" in growth (aka growth that in the 70s would have been "fantastic") is just the fact that we as a nation haven't moved to Gigapop Internet like most of the real industrialized nations have.
Re:Old PCs Still Good and Net same speed (Score:3, Informative)
Wow... your internet connection must really suck for you not to notice the difference!
I bought my wife a 266MHz G3 Imac with 384MB RAM when they came out. (still running OS9)
I have a three year old TIBook (1GHz G4, 1GB RAM, OSX).
The difference between the two systems when surfing the web is like night and day.
Re:Old PCs Still Good and Net same speed (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, I got all that.
I'm saying that something is even slower than your old iMac... it isn't the worst part of the equation... if you didn't notice a difference.
Because, if the network connection can spit the data out fast enough... there is a huge difference between my oldest Mac and even a thr
Re:Old PCs Still Good and Net same speed (Score:5, Informative)
A firewire connection to the cable modem won't make a difference so I don't know why you keep mentioning it, any PC that has a network card for the last 10 years had at least a 10 Mbps card if not a 10/100 Mbps card which both will max out the cable modems downstream just as much as a firewire connection would. Cable ISPs just don't provide the bandwidth for a firewire connection to have ANY advantage. Firewire was great for bandwidth intensive devices before USB 2.0, but now that USB 2.0 is the norm firewire is just about pointless and I hope it disappears fast and we just have one standard port.
Switching to the Mac mini - same basic firewire, same cable modem.
No perceptible difference.
Comparing an 8 year old PC to a PC now on non CPU intensive sites will give you "No perceptible difference." as well as long as both machines aren't bogged down by spyware/adware. Trying both PC/Mac setups on CPU intensive sites will most definitely have the newer machines performing much better.
Anyway, you can keep paying extra money for your Macs and thinking they are the greatest things on Earth, I will keep spending my money on much cheaper hardware which has always been easier/cheaper to upgrade/custum build my own computer myself (I have heard Macs are getting better in this area, but I do not know for sure) and also "just work". I also don't have the pompousness that a lot of Mac owners (such as you) have which I think is much preferable.
Platform flame games! (Score:3, Insightful)
Wow, a good old-fashioned platform flame war. I love
Re:Old PCs Still Good and Net same speed (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Old PCs Still Good and Net same speed (Score:3, Informative)
So what? It's still a problem in the real world, that isn't a problem with Firewire.
I also have hooked up many video cameras using the USB interface and they ALL worked just by plugging them in. To the OS's I use it just appeared as another removable hard disk, it was FAR from painful to get it working.
I suspect you might be talking about those crappy low-res videos stored on a memory stick,
Re:Old PCs Still Good and Net same speed (Score:2)
Even if most people did have such fast connections, as claimed to exist in other countries, what killer applications are there that would use all that fantastic speed. Video? People are content to watch the broadcast, cable or satellite drivel available now. Would video over the Internet improve the programming? Movies? Mostly the same as other video. Maybe downloading of movies might be a major use for the vast speed, but only if the copyright issues can be
Re:Old PCs Still Good and Net same speed (Score:2, Informative)
But again, it's the killer app thing. No reason to upgrade.
Re:Old PCs Still Good (Score:2)
Re:Old PCs Still Good (Score:2, Insightful)
P-III 600MHz mobile with 512Meg RAM here. Works absolutely fine on WinXP/FreeBSD....
Upgrade Graphics Cards vs. Replace Boxes? (Score:2)
But if I were a gamer with a 2-3-year-old machine and wanted better performance, would it make sense to by a whole new PC, or would adding a new graphics card be good enough? Or would I be in one of those traps where AGX just doesn't cut it and I'd need to buy a new motherboard with PCI-X, and oh, by the way, that motherboard needs faster RAM so I can't reuse my current stuff, in which case I should just buy a new machi
Re:Old PCs Still Good (Score:2)
Re:Old PCs Still Good (Score:2)
Re:Old PCs Still Good (Score:2)
Re:Old PCs Still Good (Score:3, Interesting)
I need a new desktop Mac. I'd buy a Quad Core G5 now if I knew an Intel Core Duo card for it that would let me run future Intel Mac binaries was coming. Especially if it meant I could have 64-bit quad core and 32
Why quad? (Score:4, Informative)
Any current Intel machine will blow that so far out of the water it just isn't funny. I have a G4 933 (QS 2002) and just got a Macbook. The Macbook is portable, uses less power, and spanks my G4 around the block as far as performance goes. Even with Parallels running and 2 VM's going. Seriously a MB or Mini Mac Intel would more than be a super upgrade for you. Obviously you don't need wiz-bang if you have been living with the B&W that long. Especially since we have definitely entered the realm of most new computers being capable of way more then you will typically ever use. I even use Protools regularly, and on the Macbook it has plenty of power for most of the sessions I run. I'll never have a deskop again, except in very special circumstances (perhaps an installed machine in a studio, but that isn't necessarily considered a general purpose computer anymore).
As another note, I have no idea what you are talking about with the $30 discount for Parallels with Windows, and I have checked their site. Their typical $30 discount, however, expires Tomorrow. So if you think you might go Intel in the near future you probably should act on it.
Re:Why quad? (Score:2)
On Parallels Desktop $30 rebate w/Windows (XP Home or Pro), check Amazon.com. They cite the rebate on the product page.
Re:Why quad? (Score:2)
So... perhaps he wants the fastest machine that will run his software...
Re:Old PCs Still Good (Score:2)
You're actually understating the issue. For the software that most people use, your processor is three, maybe even four, times as powerful as necessary. (RAM is kind of beside the point: you can always upgrade, and it's cheap as hell.) So it isn't just 3-year-old machines that people see no reason to upgrade -- it's machines that are much older!
Come to think of it, there's probably some connection between this issue, and the fact that Vista has extreme hardware requirements [bit-tech.net]. Does your P4 have good threadi
My point Exactly (Score:4, Interesting)
This machine is 6 years old, and runs Quake 4, Doom 3, and Halo like a dream. I don't see any reason to upgrade to a G5 when I am running 86+ scores on Xbench. I probably won't upgrade for another year at least.
Yea, it has a 100mhz bus, and fights between resources, but if im doing one or 2 things at a time, it flies.
http://www.kore-net.com/office/sawtooth.jpg [kore-net.com]
Re:Old PCs Still Good (Score:2)
Many waiting for Vista (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Many waiting for Vista (Score:2)
(sorry, had to be said. Coming from a Firefox/Core Duo Mac mini user)
I bet most consumers never heard of Vista (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Many waiting for Vista (Score:2)
As somebody above indicated, we've achieved a point where "Fast Enough" is a meaningful term.
We're doing the same things with computers we did 10 years ago, we're just doing them faster. There needs to be a revolution of functionality to spur demand.
My PowerBook G4 does everything I need it to fairly speedily.
It does a horrible job of decoding and playing back HDTV signals though...it's just not compelling enough to make me update yet.
Re:Many waiting for Vista (Score:2)
Re:Many waiting for Vista (Score:2)
I say "finally" because this has, of course, been predicted for some time but but has not yet quite come true. Apple still makes more money selling computers than iPods.
There's also a great semantic argument to be had about what is a "PC" but I think it's clear that the beige/grey/black/strawberry coloured box is a PC and a handheld is only partly a PC.
Or maybe "mostly a PC."
Anyway -- I dislike engaging
Re:Many waiting for Vista (Score:3, Funny)
For what? Linux on the desktop?
Windows Vista, who's waiting for it? (Score:3, Insightful)
The only people that are waiting to upgrade their hardware until Vista arrives are nerds and techno freaks that get a kick out of building their own pooters and a healthy proportion of those wouldn't touch VIsta with a 18 foot pike because they either run Linux/OS.X or because they are die hard gamers who will stick with XP to wring every ounce of performance out of their system to be able to run Quake 4, Doom 3 (or whatever
Re:Many waiting for Vista (Score:3, Interesting)
Yoda says... (Score:2)
(I'm all for a little price war since I likes me cheap computers.)
Not on the decline! (Score:5, Insightful)
When they first started selling TVs, nobody had one, obviously. But very few could afford them, so they didn't sell many. Then they got cheaper, and more sold. And cheaper, and more, etc etc etc. Until everyone owned a TV. Oh no, people aren't buying as many TVs now. It's not because they are any less popular, or something replaced them. They are simply so common that there isn't a market for people that don't have one. There is only a market for replacements.
This is the market PCs are enterring. My mother and father each have a PC. They can barely use them, but find them essential. My younger sister has a laptop and a PC. I have a PC, a server-pc, a pc that doesn't even get turned on, an old 733mhz pc that's in the closet, a 500mhz laptop and a 133mhz laptop. Everyone I know has a PC. Or 6.
PCs are still in a growing market, as the 5.7% figure in the summary states. It simply isn't growing as fast. The real slump will hit when everyone has all the PCs they 'need' and are only buying replacements.
Re:Not on the decline! (Score:5, Insightful)
The people complaining about governmental budget cuts are still receiving MORE than they did last year, but at a lower rate of increase.
"ohhhh they cut our budget, instead of going up 25% this year it is going up a tiny 15%"
Unless you are receiving less money than last year, or not keeping up with inflation over a period of time longer than a single year you should be beaten if you claim it is a cut / decline,.
Re:Not on the decline! (Score:3, Insightful)
And unless you're being asked to do more for same amount of money. For example, in education you can get a budget increase of 5% and a pupil increase of 10%. You can hear the politicians about how they're spending more money on education but it's still a net decline. It works both ways...
Re:Not on the decline! except in basic science (Score:2, Informative)
Wrong. They cut NIH funding to one-quarter what it used to be. Basic science was slashed, even while the WH was saying they were going to increase it.
Wake up and smell reality.
Re:Not on the decline! except in basic science (Score:3, Informative)
But aren't we on track to double the NSF budget over ten years?
well to help understand (Score:2)
People who do that for a living(accountants) understasnd what it means and the difference between ana ctuals decline and a budget decline. Unfortunatly newspapers tend to mangle it because they do not know the distintion.
Re:Not on the decline! (Score:2)
You are losing ground when the population you serve is growing faster than your resources:
It is for all practical purposes a budget cut when your grandmother is put on a waiting list for assisted living or a nursing home bed.
Re:Not on the decline! (Score:2)
Re:Not on the decline! (Score:2)
NEWSSHOCK: Sales below expectation 50% of time!!* (Score:2)
It amazes me how people freak out when something falls below its estimate. If X is normally distributed the actual value of X should fall below its expectation 50% of the time. If instead of expectation we're talking about the median, this is simply by definition. This isn't Statistics 101, this is like Statistics 0. But people still freak out. Sales figures, employment numbers, wage growth...
I'm just waiting for the headline, "50 Perce
Stupid Title (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Stupid Title (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Stupid Title (Score:3, Interesting)
There's a decrease in the amount of increase. Clearly you need to brush up on your journalistic doublespeak.
Re:Stupid Title (Score:2)
Or an introductory course in calculus...
Re:Stupid Title (Score:2)
Re:Stupid Title (Score:2)
Vista Factor (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Vista Factor (Score:2, Insightful)
Outside of people directly in the IT field, hardly anyone cares about Vista. MS VIsta is not even on the scope of people's purchasing desires. The best buy guy may try to push the machine that is upgradeable to vista (which those customers simply wont be doing anyways) and they usually say "yeah thats nice, i may not know about computers, but I do know its not worth upgrading"
Wallstreet Nonsense (Score:5, Interesting)
Gee Dell and Apple will be announcing their projected numbers in a few days. Well, I guess we'd all better listen to the "analysts" whose accuracy rate is about the same as flipping a coin. Speculation and stock fluctuations before these announcements is pretty much par for the course as people make guesses in the hopes of a stock market win. The rest of us, however, are a lot more concerned about Q1 and Q2 numbers that actaully, you know are how much they are selling.
Because the housing ATM is tapped (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Because the housing ATM is tapped (Score:2)
1998.
One word... (Score:3, Interesting)
A friend of mine gave me a dual P3 933 machine with a gig of ram, I put a 100gig sata drive in it, and put Vmware server on it. Now I have 12 virtual machines defined... (no for all you picky types, not all run at the same time, 3-4 at most)
Of course, I'd like to buy a nicer 64 bit machine for this server
Re:One word... (Score:2)
Anyhow I do something kinda similar with my 1.7 Ghz Centrino laptop.
It's got 1.5 GB of RAM, and I routinely run 2 VMs under VMWare for software development. (The host O/S is Fedora Linux)
It's been the bomb! It's really neat to be able to simulate several servers while developing our clustered network application while sitting in
Intel (Score:2)
Re:Intel (Score:2)
And yet, I'd desperately like to find a new non-intel Mac Mini at close out prices!
(I wanna build a diskless Myth frontend [mythtv.org])
Face it, there is still software out there that won't run on the Intel based Macs that will run on the PPC Macs.
Since I can't find one at a reasonable price, I have my eyes on this [hauppauge.com] instead...
It's a miracle the market is growing as it is.. (Score:5, Insightful)
- you don't have one yet (which is getting more and more unlikely)
- you're doing new stuff with it, such as getting broadband or editing homevideos
- you're a nerd/geek/gamer
- it's broken in some fashion.
In other words; a replacement market.
Now, the OEMs know this. This is why Dell is getting into sidelines like PDAs, digital cameras, TV screens etc.
And, in a certain way, they've always known this. OEMs have always sold PCs that were essentially underspecced when it came to the cheapest upgrade; RAM. A 1GB P3 will simply do for most people. I bet they're glad they shipped them with 256MB (or "double your ram limited time only offer" 512MB).
A cynical mind might think that this is part of the reason why OEMs include so much "handy" bundled software.. Fill up that memory good, let the apps update (get bigger) once in a while, so the system gets cruftier and cruftier. Have the anti-virus software disable after a month or two to lower defenses..
There actually are (I'm afraid to say: a lot) of people who buy a new computer simply because the old one got so bogged down with spyware. Dell should have a checkbox on their order pages "[x] my old computer is teh broken with virusses" so they can pick up the old computer as they bring the new one, and ship the old one to Africa, where a simple linux install makes it usable for at least another 3 years..
Re:It's a miracle the market is growing as it is.. (Score:2)
I was brought to the same conclusions when I bought a Mac and realized that I needn't upgrade for web browsing and photos. The Mac unlike Windows PCs needn't re-installs, anti-virus and al.
Look You Insular Propellerheads (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Look You Insular Propellerheads (Score:2)
Or frustrated with what he's got... and smart enough to know that "new" won't fix the frustration.
Re:Look You Insular Propellerheads (Score:2)
Maybe, this could be a case of salesmen's upsell efforts backfiring. Joe Sixpack goes in to buy a PC, and the salesmen tries to sell him on the model with the better graphics card, ect "Becuase Vista will be out at the beginning of next year." Suddenly Joe Sixpack becomes aware that a major software change is about to happen "Maybe I should wait till it starts coming on new PCs."
It's a case of technology vs. demand (Score:4, Insightful)
These days, i find the average home PC for Average Joe Family need no more than a >2Ghz CPU, = 1GB RAM, ~80GB, GeForce 6200 or the likes. This computer would handle Word Processing, Internet Browsing, email and even simple multimedia (digital photos, whatnot). I think it's fair to estimate this PC was a decent 'new' computer back in 2003.
What has changed for the home user? Windows XP is still the operating system in use. IE hasn't changed much, nor has Office. With that in mind, is it entirely necessary for this family to purchase a new PC? Probably not.
It boils down to the only thing driving new PC sales is new games, honestly.. and since many home PC users aren't into the latest games at the HIGHEST FPS possible, then of course PC sales are going to sag.
Why even ask? (Score:2)
Except for a tiny few, the PC sits and waits for you 90% of the time now.. So having a few % speed increase only means it waits for you even more..
Lack of advancements (Score:2)
RE: from the going-down dept. (Score:2)
I'm not shocked (Score:5, Insightful)
1. What you need to do takes too long
2. It broke and repair is to damn costly
3. You need more "memory" (where memory = either ram or HD), need a burner, or need that spiffy software application which comes with the new PC.
4. There is a super duper deal with losts of extras you don't need.
From a goodwill standpoint, while there are still a number of PCs in the pentium I class, I'm starting to see quite a few AMD durons with gigs of HD space, a modest compliment of memory, and still operational save the spyware infections. I have to say the market is pretty saturated with PCs, more PCs than you can shake a stick at, so many that dell is apparently offering their Dimension 1100 for $50 plus tax and a modest fee for shipping, or free "designated carrier".
Re:I'm not shocked (Score:2)
I stand corrected, as of this moment the price jumped back up to $299
Enclosed are the details I was quoting that no longer exist.
[data regarding my obsolete price quote]
Dimension 1100 Qty 1
Intel® Celeron® D Processor 325 (2.53 GHz, 533 FSB), Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition Unit Price
Re:I'm not shocked (Score:4, Funny)
I don't understand what you mean, the entertainment system only has 5 remote controls, only one switch box. They are all clearly marked. If you want to watch a DVD all you have to do is make sure the TV is on input one, switch box 1 for the dolby surround set or input 2 for the dvd recorder, and use the remote with the same logo as the unit you are using. To watch TV it's a simple matter of making sure you are on input 1, switch box #2. If you want regular cable just make sure you have the DVD recorder set to CATV and use the DVD recorder remote, or if you want the cable box select input in the DVD recorder remote till you see S video, if you see no video but sound press it one more time. If you need to adjust the volume use the thin remote sharing the logo with the surround sound set above, or if all else fails turn the large silver knob marked volume. If you don't have sound, make sure the surround sound unit is selected to TV, Aux is the turn table located in another room which you can't see.
I made sure to totally diable the TV speakers and the Cable TV box remote volume control just to make your live easier. Everthing is clearly marked, I don't see why anyone would have a problem.
Rise of the games consoles ? (Score:4, Insightful)
I think it's a combination of 'home entertainment' being done better on the games consoles (surely XBox360 must be a growth market), and 'corporate' users figuring that a long-life PC (with parts replacement) is more environmentally friendly, does not fill up and pollute landfill space so quickly. Should a corporate PC now have a lifespan of 10 years rather than 3 years ? If Microsoft won't supply a software maintenance service at competitive prices, that leaves doors open for the likes of RedHat and Novell who certainly will.
From what I can see of Microsoft Windows Vista, it's aimed at the games market.
Corporate/professional use just doesn't get anything more out of Vista than XP; it's not as if a new version of Microsoft Word will help you think and express yourself more clearly than the old one does.
Re:Rise of the games consoles ? (Score:3, Interesting)
Since performance no longer doubles every 12-15 months? Definitely.
Most PCs bought in the last 5 years can easily last 6-8 years if they are taken care of, are running Win2k or WinXP, and have plenty of RAM (1GB is a good target for an office machine). Two years ago, we went through the office and maxed out all of the RAM on any machine with 500MHz or faster CPUs. For $100/machine, we added 2-3 years of lifespan.
New machines
Spyware factor (Score:3, Insightful)
this is contributing to a forthcoming social, ecological and economic disaster...and I am saying this as a conservative!
It never fails... (Score:2)
C'mon people, show of hands: how many of you are checking up on return policies right now?
ARRRRGGGGGHHH where's the beef? (Score:2)
I see 1% swings daily on news, WTF, is this a gain if we simply shift it a week?!?
Plus the fact that Apple is not going to hit ANALISTS PROJECTIONS (did i miss a Y? oh well)
Also it appears Dell is losing some market share. DUH, they've been idiots with service for a while now.
Nowhere in link does it mention SALES or even PROFIT. Are sales down? Where is the slump? Less units? Less dollars? Less profits?
Any of the above or just bellyachin they aren't making a bunch more?
bl
That's kind of funny (Score:2)
We can't forget that Dell has been installing KNOWN spyware on PCs they've been selling of late as well as all the trialware that gets installed on systems to lower the cost to the customer due to "ad revenue".
No, I don't think that computer sales wi
Learn from History!!! (Score:4, Interesting)
In the Smithsonian's technology exhibit, I saw a graph that marked the rise of television in the 1950s. It was a saturation curve, rising very quickly at the 40 to 50 percent level, and then flattening and gradually moving up at, IIRC, 70 to 80 percent. I'm sure the transition to color and solid state provided some turnover, as will the hi-def transition we are in now.
The lesson though, is that PCs will saturate too. They can surf the web and play DVDs. They can do word processing, spreadsheets, and most of the other "killer apps" people need. There's no more reason for turnover, and those that want 'em got 'em. I was looking out for this, and figured the real saturation started in the late 90s. For years, the state of the art PC was "about $2000", and then suddenly, very capable machines dropped through the $1000 floor. The vendors must have seen the curve flattening, so they had to reach into that lower price market to drive sales. That was the beginning of the end.
The answer is on Slashdot... (Score:2)
People are just playing games, they're not thinking. For that, you don't need a PC, a SlayStation will do.
Us thoughtful developers are becoming a minority as the "bread and circuses" concept is pushed by corporates - except now it's fast food, cable, and video games.
Vik
Look outside of tech for the answer (Score:4, Insightful)
Everybody knows the obvious reasons (e.g., gas prices, interest rates, outsourcing), but the lurking fat girl ready to jump out of the cake and start farting up a storm is home equity borrowing.
Under Bush, you borrowed against your fast-appreciating home as fast as you could. Then you went out and bought crap.
That money's spent (though usually still owed). Unhappily for those counting on the "home ATM" to work forever, there's a glut of homes and condos nobody wants and that owners can't sell. Speculation is rife, values have ballooned beyond the reach of most buyers and new building is continuing like a bad thyroid problem: this will lead to declining values. The WSJ observed a plateauing in new equity borrowing back in March; just wait. There's more signs of the hard landing ahead today at WSJ.com, where it's argued that "the current slowdown in homes sales is more profound that many had first thought," along with mounting fears of recession.
Under mountains of debt and delusion many Americans are going to learn to live within their means, which will be reduced by the reckless choices--financial and political--made in this decade. Obviously, that means fewer new Dells and Apples among other things. Anyone looking for good prices on systems might want to wait for the foreclosure sales in McMansion land--lightly used, you know, just a little porn and Rush Limbaugh. ;-)
Look around my house (Score:3, Insightful)
My personal desktop is a 766Mhz celeron running Ubuntu. It does everything I feel I currently need. My son is happy playing his online games on a three year old Ubuntu machine. My wife is perfectly capable of doing anything she needs towards finishing her college degree with the remaining systems.
The XP desktop would not even be here if it were not for my wife foolishly buying a Canon "3 in 1" printer that only works on windows.
Think about it. My family can do anything they decide to do with what amounts to other peoples throw away machines. Most of our closer friends have come to us when they felt that they needed new computers. If they were ready for linux, we put them on the favorite linux distro at that time (currently Ubuntu). If they were not ready for linux, we set them up with a 98lite gutted version of ME (don't laugh, its a pretty slick little system if you go the "micro" route). They are all still running along happily with no major complaints.
I've been doing my part to stop this mentality that says "we have to upgrade because Microsoft has a new system." The old argument about how hard it is to use anything other than Mac or Windows doesn't fly in my house. We swapped to Linux in 1995. I'm not an IT pro. I'm a steamfitter. Guys, its just not that hard.
Even my Macintosh nazi father-in-law is beginning to question this continual upgrade cycle.
Perhaps the rest of the community is starting to figure out that they are getting ripped off by computer and software manufacturers.
If it isn't broke, don't fix it.
Re:Slowing Growth != Decline (Score:2)
personaly i own too many computers.. and the only ones i don't build my self are laptops (you can but a pain in the ass)
they are making money.. that should make people happy..
as goes for the stock holders.. well personaly stocks are bets and any company that goes public in my mind doesn't have a personal vision or can't do math.........
Re:Slowing Growth != Decline (Score:3, Interesting)
A naive interpretation of a stock's worth is that you take the company's assets, sell them, and divide them up among the shareholders. But a company is clearly worth more than that: it makes profits. So you should add to the worth the amount of money you could expect to make from it if you were to divide up the profits.
But what are the profits going to be? That's hard to say, and much magic goes into figuring it out. People g
Re:Apple Dumped By IBM (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Apple Dumped By IBM (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess it depends on how you define "desktop". The iMac is more of a "desktop" machine, in the literal sense of the word, than is the Power Mac - the Power Mac in my office isn't on the top of my desk, it's underneath the desk. You could put a Power Mac tower on your desk, but if you put an iMac on the floor, you're not going to be able to use it conveniently from your desk (unless you ssh into it from a machine on your desk).
The iMac is the consumer "desktop" (as opposed to "laptop") model in the Apple line (although the Mac Mini could also be used with a monitor as a desktop); the Mac Pro or whatever it'll be called will be the "professional" desktop.
Re:Apple Dumped By IBM (Score:2)
As far as the laptops go, various comparisons posted here show that if you stricticly try to match features and specs, Apple's prices are pretty much in-line with the competition.
I'm interested in seeing how Apple prices their "pro" line, however. If Apple tries to charge $2000 for exactly what Dell charges $500 for, I'll be th
Re:Apple Dumped By IBM (Score:2)
Re:Apple Dumped By IBM (Score:2)
Like I said, Apple will lose this advantage once they release a 'standard' tower. So they better either supercharge the CPU/GPU/RAM specs, or th
Re:Apple Dumped By IBM (Score:2)
Re:Well personally (Score:2)
I'm also still running a dual 2000+ amd system... and a p 1.6ghz pc... and i have a laptop thats a p4 3ghz
Really, the dual 2000+ does most stuff fine.
The only real reason to upgrade is for games or software reasons. Right now there just arent any games for the pc that are worth buying or upgrading for.
Re:Well personally (Score:2)
Re:Problems? (Score:2)
Yeah, and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot.
Re:Typical Business Minds (Score:3, Interesting)
Until the CPU died, I was running the latestest games and microsoft programming tools on a 1.8 Ghz box with 768Megs of RAM.
Now I ahve upgraded to a 3Ghz and 1 Gig of RAM my compile times have been cut buy only 25%, and the increase game performances was good, but not spectaular, or nearly twice as good.
I remember (as do many of you, I'm sure) when in order to play the newest games you HAD to buy a new processor. Not any more
Re:Typical Business Minds (Score:2)
Re:Slowing growth is not decline! (Score:2)
no.
The people who even are aware of it aren't a signifigant amout of consumer. Out side your tech friends you would be hard pressed to find anyone who is holding off on a purchase becasue of this.
It's just the begininng of the flattening of sales becasue PCs are good enough to last 4-5 years for most consumers.
And a lot more consumers have PCs then 5 years ago.
Re:Sort of a misleading summary. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sort of a misleading summary. (Score:4, Funny)
A man will spend $2 on a $1 item which he needs, a woman will spend $1 on a $2 item which she doesn't need.
Re:Sort of a misleading summary. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Keylogger in Dell laptops (Score:3, Informative)
It's a hoax, I think, but I'd like to know the backstory / any corroborating information anyway.
From the screenshots [virus.org.ua] elsewhere on the site (in Cyrillic), plus his bashrc file [virus.org.ua], and the site's hostname, it would seem to be a young Ukranian guy (handle "[Virus]" on irc.tsua.net, real name possibly Andrey A. Belashkov [virus.org.ua]).
Particularly given that he's possibly an admistrator for a rather largish regional ISP, it's slightly embarassing that he hasn't disabled directory b