Using VMWare and Citrix in Tandem?

Dysfnctnl85 asks: "As a follow up to the previous discussion 'Alternatives to Citrix Remote Computing?', I've hit another brick wall in my quest to enhance the way my company does remote computing. Right now I've setup Windows Server 2003 Enterprise x64 R2 on two 64-bit machines with 16gb of RAM each. Before I can setup Presentation Server 4, I need to install the Novell client to allow access to our NetWare servers. After doing some research on Google, and hopping forums on the Novell Support boards, I've determined that Novell has no plans to release a 64-bit client for any Microsoft OS until Vista launches." Has anyone managed to get VMWare, Citrix and 64-bit Windows working together?

"Now I'm sure there are other companies out there in a similar situation (as noted on the forums and Google Groups), so I then decided to look into the virtualization market to see if I can still make my dream happen. I've been emailing my Citrix rep who in turn has been speaking with a Citrix engineer who is currently training with VMWare, coincidentally. I'm wondering if anyone has successfully ran a VMWare + Citrix solution in order to fully take advantage of dual 64bit procs, a Windows 64-bit OS, and 16GB of RAM. I was thinking of running 2 Citrix Servers within VMWare to handle maybe 8GB, effectively making 4 public Citrix servers, but I'm not sure what the best solution would be."

D'oh!

[sharkey]

I feel for you, buddy. I've been at the "Oh shit!" stage of realizing during implementation that I missed something $REALLY_IMPORTANT in planning myself.

I am also hoping for some interesting and informative answers, since I am currently investigating using Windows Enterprise x64 to do a Terminal Services environment within MS Virtual Server using the "free" licensing of the virtual OSes. (My $ORK_PLACE steps on your neck for buying a 6-pack of Coke when on the road, penny-pinching *EXPLETIVE DELETED*.)

Is Netware needed?

[mkiwi]

So you want to run Citrix as your front end. That is a pretty good choice.

The main question is what are you running behind Citrix. Citrix itself does very little but present a screen to a virtual server. My experience has been that the thing behind Citrix- Netware in your case -is the thing that causes the most problems. Definately consider switching to an A/D setup if you have not already started migrating users from Netware to A/D. With A/D and cool projects like OpenLDAP you can do some pretty neat web based things with Java or PHP. (I have not checked in to other languages as of yet) When your company asks you to implement a fully customizable web portal using IIS (eek!) that accesses all this information, PHP is a good ally to have.

Cost considerations, plus more thoughts...

[ejoe_mac]

First off decide of you really need Citrix or not. There are a few things it does well, mostly on a management / printing basis. Take a look at some sort of SSL Presentation box (F5 Firepass / etc) to do your presentation. Using basic Termainal Services works fine for some situations.

Now Microsoft is allowing 4 free instances of their OS when you're running on Windows 2003 R3 Enterprise/Advanced, and using Virtual Server 2005 R2. I know it's a MS hot dog next to VMWare's Prime Rib, but when $$ matters there is compromise to be had.

I've used ESX for Win2003 std Terminal Server - due to the users each mapping 4 printers back each (yea Windows Server with 35 people connected, each bringing 4 printers - didn't work well). There's a check box in ESX for "Citrix Workload".

In a perfect situation, I'd use Citrix to publish applications. I'd create 1-3 VM's on each server for each application published (5 apps = 5-15 VM's per server). Use Citrix to balance the load across those servers (or an external appliance). This would allow for a fairly consistant load across the servers without any additional features. If you're in it for the money, create 2 VM's per task and use the new Vitual Infrastructure 3 DRS feature to allow automatic VMotion if a single server gets overloaded.

Something to think about, but remember using a Vitrual platform has so many advantages to strictly hardware I'd overlook the Citrix people saying "no". Rebuilding a server in 3 short mouse clicks is just too amazing.

Re:VMWare Server works fine on x64

[Jaruzel]

VMWare supports x64.. but not by providing x64 binaries, just by insuring their code runs under Windows on Windows.

Elaborating on the Parent further, WMWare Workstation (5.5.1 if anyones keeping track, not tried Server or had the luck to get grubby with ESX) does run as a 32-bit process on x64 Windows, BUT on x64 it allows you to also have x64 Guest OSs, whereas if you run it on a 32 bit host OS, you are (obviously) restricted to to 32-bit only Guest OSs.

The thing I don't get is, how can a 32-bit Application (VMWare), host 64-bit Operating Systems?

Anyway, I have x64 Windows (Svr 2003 SP1), VMWare, and Citrix hosted in a 32-bit Guest OS . It all runs quite happily, albeit slightly sluggish.

-Jar.