Microsoft Hoping for Vista in January 424
WebHostingGuy writes "Bill Gates said Tuesday there was an 80 percent chance the company's next-generation operating system, Vista, would be ready in January. He is also hopeful that the next version of Office will ship in December. The holdup, he says, is due to constant revisions due to beta tester feedback." From the article: "'We've got to get this absolutely right,' Gates said. 'If the feedback from the beta tests shows it is not ready for prime time, I'd be glad to delay it.' He said Microsoft was investing $8 billion to $9 billion in developing Vista and the company's next version of Office, its key cash-generator. He said the company's software partners, in developing and adapting their own products for the two launches, would invest 20 times as much as Microsoft."
Credible odds? (Score:5, Funny)
Mr Gates, how much do you want to bet?
I'd really like to see what kind of odds the Vegas bookmakers would give it.
"The holdup, he says, is due to constant revisions due to beta tester feedback."
Well duh, Just quit testing!
Re:Credible odds? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Credible odds? (Score:3, Insightful)
HURD shouldn't have to be any more complex than Linux, and Linux is very complete in comparison. The problems with HURD stem from poor project management, not inherent complexity.
Re:Credible odds? (Score:5, Insightful)
The linux driver situation is not a mess. You just bought a product where the developer doesn't care about you, the customer.
There is no technical reason why the camera doesn't work in Linux. It's not the job of OSS developers to be on the leading edge of every device on the planet. If your device manufacturer doesn't want to write drivers and doesn't want to document the interface how is this a failing of Linux?
btw with libgphoto a lot of USB cams work just fine in Linux [including the Canon Powershot series].
Tom
Re:Credible odds? (Score:3, Informative)
Because stable ABI for binary-drivers is not in the best interest of Linux? Linux-developers want the drivers to become part of the kernel, where they can be properly troubleshot. If they provide a stable ABI, companies will just use binary-drivers, and no-one (except the manufacturer) has any means of troubleshooting the problems the drver might be causing. The bi
Re:Credible odds? (Score:3, Insightful)
That's how to make any comment that may seem of any degree insightful seem completely foolish and the blabbering of an uber-dedicated fanboy that gets a chubby at the site of Tux.
It's amazing to me how people are so willing to make themselves look like complete assholes with a single sentence.
Re:Credible odds? (Score:2)
Re:Credible odds? (Score:5, Insightful)
It depends. Do you think his charity is enough to make up for all the harm Microsoft has done to the economy over the years, between the predatory business practices, viruses, stifling non-Microsoft technologies, etc.? I'd say it's entirely possible that, if Microsoft had never existed, we might be so much more prosperous today that all that money would still be going to charity, and more.
As a self-proclaimed Linux fanboi . . . (Score:5, Insightful)
You want corporate evil? Look at fellows like Carnagie and Rockefeller. There's a couple of great examples of the "robber baron", and we still name civic centers and auditoriums after them. Gates isn't even a blip on the radar next to those two. Granted, he's beyond obscenely rich, and there's no mistaking his business practices for anything resembling fair, but he really is quite tame by comparison to some of America's more revered/despised business leaders of the past.
American history is replete with such men. It's the inevitable result of the free-enterprise system.
Re:As a self-proclaimed Linux fanboi . . . (Score:3, Insightful)
No, what I'm trying to say is that Microsoft -- and Windows in particular -- has harmed the entire world's economy because of all the costs associated with cleaning up after the various and sundry viruses that exploit MS's poor-quality programming, all the costs associated with writing dirty hacks to support Windows' flaws (e.g. the extra effort required to write a web page that works in IE), and all the costs in terms of lack of innovation because Microsoft stifled so many markets due to its monopoly.
I'm
Re:Credible odds? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Credible odds? (Score:2)
Oh Did you mean since 1990?
Re:Credible odds? (Score:2)
Re:Credible odds? (Score:2)
Re:Credible odds? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Credible odds? (Score:2)
Re:Credible odds? (Score:5, Funny)
Right. Testing will be 80% done by January, making Windows Vista the most thoroughly tested Microsoft operating system ever.
Re:Credible odds? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Credible odds? (Score:3, Insightful)
Gambling (Score:3, Funny)
Since Mr. Gates lives in Washington [pokermag.com], he is unfortunately not able to respond to your wager online. [slashdot.org]
Re:Credible odds? (Score:3, Funny)
"Well, like I said, there's about a 1 in 5 chance that it won't ship. It's hardly a sure thing. So I'll bet... say... a billion dollars."
Hope... (Score:2)
Re:Hope... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hope... (Score:2)
Re:Hope... (Score:2, Interesting)
Unless it's a bloated bugfest like Windows ME and people refuse to upgrade.
I don't know what the odds of that are, but personally I'm not in a hurry to migrate. I was excited about XP because it fixed the worst of the Windows 98 stability problems. (By making it harder for a misbehaving process to bring the whole system down.) But I don't have any motivation to go from my
Re:Hope... (Score:2)
My company's products are primarily Java based, although they are typically used in a Windows world. I'm not spending any time planning for Vista - but that's mostly because I pass the buck to Sun and trust them to roll out a Vista-co
Re:Hope... (Score:3, Informative)
In the spring of 2003 XP had 30% of the market. Three years later, XP has 75% of the market. Users upgrade, they do not migrate to the alternative OS. OS Platform Statistics [w3schools.com]
"Bloat" is strictly a Geek obession. Vista Premium should run just fine on your midline Dell.
Re:Hope... (Score:3, Interesting)
-matthew
Will there be (Score:5, Insightful)
Last I heard, all the features were being removed, and that it required an insane machine to run.
Re:Will there be (Score:5, Funny)
Dude, what are you talking about?! Vista is gonna have some sweet new DRM! We can finally quit messing around with our PCs and just let Microsoft run them for us! Think of all the time we spend on the computer that we can now spend doing... umm... other stuff? I think there's supposed to be other stuff we can do anyway... not real clear on that...
Re:Oh there will be... (Score:3, Insightful)
Depends on whether they actually work significantly better or not.
At this point... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:At this point... (Score:2)
I just knew Microsoft would rue the day that it hired Duke Nukem Forever's release manager
Re:At this point... (Score:2)
Well (Score:3, Funny)
Doesn't matter (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:5, Insightful)
Every month that goes by without Vista is another month for Linux to improve, and is another month for Apple to work on Leopard (and maybe beat Vista out with it). Point is, MS has competition, which is picking up speed. MS wants to cut that off as soon as possible, and regulate them back to 1-2 percent each.
If Apple is really smart ... (was:Doesn't matter) (Score:2)
Release OSX for generic PC. It'll kill their (perceived) "hardware business" (in practice is just expensive dongles for their OS and software suite) but it would pretty much nail M$ to the wall.
Re:If Apple is really smart ... (was:Doesn't matte (Score:5, Insightful)
Now I admit I'm a huge Mac fanboi and would be just fine never touching another Windows box in my life, but Apple would take many tears and years to integrate the hardware support that Windows has. One of the reasons I love Apple, "Don't do it all, just do what you do damn well."
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:If Apple is really smart ... (was:Doesn't matte (Score:4, Interesting)
In perhaps your tiny world, but think how many *nix freaks would love to run OSX on beigebox pcs. I know I would. I suspect that it wouldn't even really damage their hardware business all that much.
Think about it--how many people would buy the hardware just for the added support, comfort and perceived (and at this point, only perceived) superior reliability? I know a lot of folks would. A good portion of their market wouldn't really even understand what this option meant. Others would, but they are the cost-conscious type who would very likely never purchase a Mac in the first place. They might, however, purchase OSX at a reasonable price (that is, lower than Windows!).
I think that offering their software could only increase their profits. It would very likely seriously damage their relationship with MS, and that is very likely the real reason that the cost/benefit ratio doesn't quite pay off just yet. One day it will, however, and then MS needs to watch out.
Re:If Apple is really smart ... (was:Doesn't matte (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:If Apple is really smart ... (was:Doesn't matte (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:2)
Well, I upgraded from Windows 98 to Windows XP, which was a huge improvement. I can't say I've seen any appreciable difference between XP and 2000 though (I regularly use 2000 at the office), save for the skin and themeing abilities in XP, which is not a big selling point for me.
I have, however no intention of ever upgrading to Vista, although my hardware can run it, why would I want to? Eye candy does not equate to a solid operating system a
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:3, Informative)
I wish you would give Microsoft a break. We always complain about their lack of quality. If Bill Gates is actuall
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:2, Insightful)
I upgraded to an apple. I'm already enjoying features that microsoft has been promising for years.
I guess that's the reason it needs to come out quickly, marketing can't hype something that everyone has seen on their friends
apple.
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:3, Interesting)
There is no real need for a Vista release anytime soon, really.
Tell that to the people who bought SA licenses between 2001 and 2003. The paid more so that they could a discount on the next release within 3 years. With 3 years being up, MS does not have to honor those SA agreements.
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, but they're all Bill's bitches anyway. They'll pay up, and he knows it. Is this flamebait? I don't think so. I think it's absolutely true in at least 95% of all cases. People just can't seem to ween themselves off of Windows.
Bud Light Presents... (Score:5, Funny)
[Real Men Of Genius.]
Today, we salute you, Mr Impatient For Windows Vista Guy.
[Mr Impatient For Windows Vista Guy.]
While others marvel at an operating system whose primary repair
tradition is a complete wipe, you just can't wait for more of the
same.
[I just love my Long Horn!]
Yes, it lacks security, efficiency, speed, heck, just about
everything. But ever since 1985, when you first jammed your floppies
into that curvaceous 186, you've been enraptured with Windows.
[It was five and a quarter inches!]
Despite the fact that it requires an array of Crays to run already
invented technologies at sub-optimum speeds, you will beat the rush
and see Notepad and Clock run in CPU-crippling GPU-hogging
translucency.
[It turns on all my pixels!]
So crack open an ice cold Bud Lite, oh Chevalier of the Control Panel,
because whilst the rest of us wonder what Vista will bring, you
already know.
[Mr Impatient For Windows Vista Guy!]
Bud Light beer. Anheuser Busch, St. Louis, Missouri.
Parent Post Funny (Score:2)
Re:Bud Light Presents... (Score:2)
Re:Bud Light Presents... (Score:2)
Post.
Ever.
I love those commercials. My favorite one is the recent hotdog one about 47 more hotdogs really hitting the spot.
Hmmm, seems somehow appropriate.
Hoping? (Score:5, Funny)
Windows Vista = new Windows();
Vista.announceWayTooEarlyReleaseDate()
Vista.test();
public void test()
{
test();
}
Here's how... (Score:2)
Re:Hoping? (Score:4, Funny)
It keeps crashing before it can get to the testing step.
(Oh and test() isn't defined as a method of the Windows class)
Re:Hoping? (Score:3, Funny)
So much buildup (Score:2, Interesting)
Man, I remember 10 years ago when I was making fun of Windows 95 for not having any original ideas. I didn't know how good we had it. At least Windows 95 had some ideas, whether or not they were original-- there was at least a substantial difference from Windows 3.1. But it seems like from 2000 to XP to Vista all Microsoft's really done is
80% chance for a release means... (Score:2)
How long has this operating system been due now?
Re:80% chance for a release means... (Score:2, Interesting)
180 billion to reimplement for vista? (Score:2)
Re:180 billion to reimplement for vista? (Score:3, Informative)
Happy holidays! (Score:5, Funny)
Oh man, now he's resorting to asking Santa...
Re:Happy holidays! (Score:2)
yes but... (Score:4, Funny)
8 - 9 BILLION? (Score:4, Funny)
Well, OK, when you write it over and over and over again....
Sneer if you like (Score:5, Insightful)
Right there is why Microsoft is the most successful software company in the world -- respect for developers.
It's all well and good to laugh at Steve Ballmer sweating like an ape on a stage and shouting about developers. It's fine to feel smug and superior using Mac OS or Linux (I'm using both write now myself).
But Microsoft has always respected the work of developers coding to their platform. Backward compatibility is a religion at Microsoft, by all accountts. Which is good because they're, um, a platform vendor.
Sounds simple, but it is amazing how often this is screwed up. Apple is notorious for breaking old programs that didn't interpret the Mac API just right -- or that relied on a technology fad Apple pumped and abandoned (OpenDoc, QuickDraw GX, Publish + Subscribe, etc etc).
Apache Foundation did the same thing moving from httpd v1 to v2 -- PHP took quite a long time to move over and at one point was telling people not to even try using it with v2.
Firefox seems to do it on every release with its extensions.
Backward compatibility might not give warm fuzzies to the systems programmers -- it is hard, inelegant work. But it is a boon to users and application programmers.
I only use Linux on the server, where I don't run into backward compatibility issues, but from what I understand the drivers often have to be rewritten from release to release.
I'm not in love with Windows or Microsoft, but I will continue using their OS becase of the sheer range of CHOICES in terms of software and hardware, and the fact that all my old stuff can migrate to a new machine.
So go ahead, laugh at Microsoft, har dee har, "u r d3layed AG@1N!" For your purposes -- programming, running a server -- Linux may be the best. Or Mac OS X for that plus video editing, publishing, and other tasks and price points that don't require the full diversity of Wintel.
But for most computer users, Windows offers wins because of its compatibility with an incredibly array of cheap hardware and an incredible back (and forward) catalog of software. Microsoft knows this, and THAT'S why they are going to wait until Vista is just right. Yes they screwed the pooch, but they are attempting something that neither Linux nor OS X can touch.
Re:Sneer if you like (Score:2, Funny)
Well, you certainly seem to be using the new macbook keyboard...
Re:Sneer if you like (Score:5, Insightful)
OK, Microsoft can do ths if they want, but it hurts the industry when Microsoft can tell devs what, for whom and how to develop software, or suffer destruction at thier hands. (Unlees you're IBM or Oracle sized, and have enough resources to fight back.)
Soko
Re:Sneer if you like (Score:2)
BWAHAHAHA HAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA HAHAHHAHAHA.
...(after 25 minutes of uncontrollable laughter)...
Hehehehe heheh BWHAHAHAHAHAHAA...
You're not serious are you? Coming from the same company that makes it a living hell to code for the web, which implements such solutions (undisclosed, subtle breakage of API calls) that puts competitors in extremely difficult positions. The one that has a 2 m
Re:Sneer if you like (Score:3, Funny)
That was old Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
As for Apple not having respect for developers, which companies ships every OS with a copy of the development tools? Just because they are a little more agressive API wise does not mean they do not support developers.
And Linux of course is the original "I liked the product so much I wrote it myself" kind of system that is by developers, for developers. If Linux has a problem it's that it only truly respects developers and other people are allowed to tag along for the ride!
Jan (Score:3, Funny)
Why a new version of Office? (Score:2)
Seriously, I am curious, if you are an Office user, what features are you missing that you would be willing to upgrade for?
Who is he kidding? (Score:2)
No joke, after making us wait this long for it. If you'd gotten it out sooner, the expectations would have been easier to meet.
They are holding out til consent decree is up (Score:2, Interesting)
Microsoft's obligations under the settlement, as originally drafted, expire on November 12, 2007. [13] However, Microsoft later "agreed to consent to a two-year extension of part of the Final Judgments" dealing wit
But Microsoft will never make up the 8-9 billion (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:But Microsoft will never make up the 8-9 billio (Score:3, Interesting)
They do have an option of simply releasing early and often and evolving XP... essentially delivering Vista over the course of years to it's customers. That's a very nice and user friendly model, but has the drawback of not having big media fanfare every few years.
I am... (Score:2)
Microsoft is taking a page from the politicians (Score:5, Interesting)
Revisions due to beta-tester feedback (Score:4, Funny)
I bet you (Score:3, Informative)
Re:couple of observations (Score:5, Insightful)
MS Early Adopter program (Score:2, Informative)
Re:couple of observations (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:couple of observations (Score:2)
Re:couple of observations (Score:2)
Quit bitching - backward compatibility is a major hassle, and unlike open source project MS got contracts and they can not just tell us - no luck, recompile and redo all your apps - as Linux forced us to do many time over.
Re:couple of observations (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, I recall back in '94 AOL would have stopped working with Windows 95, so MS changed some memory allocation code pretty much just for them, their competitors.
(I heard that AOL's software was taking a 32 bit Handle (sort of an index to a table of pointers), and only used the lower 16 bits of it: which was all Windows 3.1 really used, with it 65,536 object limit.
People often think of MS being anti-competitive when they win, but forget thing
Re:couple of observations (Score:2)
Good grief, yagu Brown!
Re:couple of observations (Score:3, Informative)
That said, I've used Vista Beta 2. It's Alpha quality, at best. (Of
Pitiful? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Pitiful? (Score:3, Insightful)
- Alan Perlis
It was as true then as it is today.
Re:new scapegoat? (Score:3, Interesting)
One: The Vista Beta was so bad from a user perspective that they are racing to fix all the problems found to make it desirable to use.
Two: MS understands that this is the biggest release in their history, it is a pivotal moment for the company, and they absolutely have to get this right and hitting on all cylinders to ensure their continued dominance.
Of course, what is really going on is probably somew
Re:Vista or Mac ? (Score:3, Informative)
Hell, I've got even neater features on Linux now, such as the fact that I can start a processor-intensive application running and my machine doesn't become completely unusable (mmm, efficient thread switching...). Let's see you try that under Windows or OSX.
Re:Vista or Mac ? (Score:2)
With the intel processors, a Mac running OSX has just as good, if not better, desktop performance as any other computer I've used.
Wait, back up (Score:2, Funny)
What does it do?
Re:Vista or Mac ? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Vista? January? (Score:2)
Re:Vista? January? (Score:2)
The push is called Windows Genuine Advantage.
Re:Vista? January? (Score:2)