Microsoft's Handheld Codenamed Argo

The Seattle Times reports that details on Microsoft's handheld gaming/music device are finally slipping out. The Argo project looks to be Microsoft's hedge against angry analysts, upset that the next versions of Office and Windows have slipped yet again. From the article: "As reported last week, initially by Bloomberg News, the device is expected to go on sale by Christmas. It has Wi-Fi capability so it can connect wirelessly to home and public networks and other players. Wi-Fi sounds like a big deal if you're comparing the player to the wire-bound iPod. But this is more than just another MP3 player. It will also compete with game players from Sony and Nintendo that have long had Wi-Fi and work as media players, Internet terminals and communication devices. Argo is likely to showcase another Allard project — XNA, a new toolkit that helps game developers create titles for multiple platforms."

AirTunes

[Lord Satri]

"Wi-Fi sounds like a big deal if you're comparing the player to the wire-bound iPod."

Not exactly the same result, but AirTunes [apple.com] provides something most of us simply want...

Like other products...

[Anonymous Coward]

No doubt this will have as big an impact on the gaming market as the Origami had on the portables market.

Re:Could make it despite the Ipod and the DS

[Yahweh Doesn't Exist]

what's the obsession with wireless?

sure, sometimes when I see a new podcast in iTunes I'd like to just have it on my 5G wirelessly. but thinking about it, would that mean my ipod would always have to have wifi turned on? would the ipod itself have to be turned on? and I'd still have to plug it in for large syncs, use as an external hard drive and of course charging.

I think that if instead of every little sync adding to my battery life it actually took some away, then battery life would become an issue which at the moment it isn't.

I have a DS lite for games.

Re:AirTunes

[sterno]

Well that and wifi isn't a big deal really. What makes the Ipod so nice is that it's simple. It plays music/videos and that's it. The interface is minimalist but totally effective. Once you start making a device into a game playing wifi enabled gadget, it becomes harder to make it elegant. I mean, think for a moment what the device has to have available on it just to connect to a wifi network. You have to be able to enter an SSID, WEP key, etc. Already you're making things needlessly complicated.

The one advantage I can see to wifi is the ability to buy and download music directly to the device. But how do you do that? How does the interface work? How do you pay for songs, etc? It's a simple problem to solve on a computer with a keyboard, etc, but on a compact device, it's really difficult.

Frankly I think Microsoft's product is going to be a dud because it'll be too complicated.

Ho humm

[presearch]

Won't this just be CE..I mean PocketPC...I mean Windows Mobile with a couple new bundled apps, an added API, and a hardware reference that specs a patent-safe imitation of the iPod click wheel? The tech press has latched on to this for some reason for the last few days, probably planted to take advantage of a recently weakened AAPL, but it makes no sense for M$ to alienate their phone and PDA customers by coming out with their own hardware.

Re:Could make it despite the Ipod and the DS

[ClamIAm]

I think there's a common thread among the devices you mention: the ones that succeeded did one thing, and did it well. The Ipod plays music very well (plus video, but that feels tacked-on to me). Nintendo handhelds have always played games well. In addition, both have put an emphasis on portability and battery life.

Then you look at devices that aren't doing that well. The PSP has some sweet specs, but (as you mention) it has some issues. The DS getting twice the battery life (or more) probably doesn't help either. As for portable audio players, wake me when the manufacturers that aren't Apple figure out how to design a user interface that doesn't suck.

I was worried at first, but now I'm not...

[7Prime]

When MS started talking about creating simpler infrastructure, and more ellegent solutions, I got a little worried that maybe they were really in the right headspace to compete with the iPod. But now I see that those original ideals were just words, and this thing is going to be just another PSP: "It's a game device, it's a PDA, it's a video player, it's a music player, WOW!" You'd think that MS would have learned its lesson from Sony on this one, but it seems like they haven't. Their decision to make a handheld gaming system will be their biggest downfall, now they're not only competing with Apple (and Yahoo, and Creative Labs, and iRiver), but with Nintendo and Sony as well. At this point, if you manage to piss off Nintendo and Apple in the same punch, you're likely to just strengthen their unspoken alliance to the point of them officially joining forces against you, and I wouldn't want to be on the other side of that battle.

What's so difficult to understand? The two most successfull handheld entertainment devices, in their respective fields, are the iPod and the Nintendo DS. Both of these devices succeded because they were aimed at only one market, were designed to do one thing, and they did it extremely well. And because of it, they slaughtered every other competative device that tried to throw in the kitchen sink. Meanwhile, the PSP, N-Gage, and all those other little "3 in 1" type gadgets are foundering.

The first thing this device is going to kill (if anything at all), is all the iPod's competitors, which are trying to do exactly the same thing as MS is here. The irony is that these are MSs biggest allies, many of them use WMA as their primary file type, and thus have contracts with MS worked out. But there's no way that MS is going to be able to compete with the iPod, head-to-head from the get-go, these other devices stand like a helpless rank of unarmed soldiers standing just in front of the huge army that is the iPod.

Re:Umm...

[SalaciousPucker]

If this is what is being described, it is going against what the Ipod & PSP SHOULD be now, rather then what they are. Right now the Ipod is for music. The PSP does everything, but nothing good. What the market wants (and don't know it) is true convergence, the one device to unite them all...the OS of the pocket.

It's hard to be humble, but I have to hand it to myself in a post from May 28th....

Apple should be in handheld gaming. They should be shooting for the inevitable, a true convergence of the handheld market. That uber-Phone/PDA/Ipod/Gameboy - all in one - that geeks have dreamed about since the Star Trek communicator.

Apple sells the most expensive device in our pockets right now. It has mass storage, a color screen, significant processing power and it's own OS. Of all the pocket based systems, the Ipod requires the least additional work to accomodate the features of all the others. What you have then is the OS of the pocket.

Still, the path to obscurity or to becoming the overpriced but efficient 'niche' product, like Apple computers have always been to the PC, could be Apple going it alone in all aspects. Taking a leap into handheld gaming would mean directly competing with Sony and Nintendo in a cut throat & solidified market. They would have two options really, as I see it. Build the gaming OS/API's themselves (a tough route) or license it from Sony (the PSP) or Nintendo. How open Sony or Nintendo would be to digital distribution of its games or handing off much of the reins to Apple is questionable, but there is definitely some synergy for a collaboration like this.

Apple should move quick on this. The talk about Microsoft's new IPod/XBOX-handheld product is already in the 'when' not 'if' stage. Microft could care less about builiding the different handheld products individually or as a whole -- they want to own the OS it all runs on. They want to be there at the point of convergence. If Apple doesn't secure their position here it could be a situation of deja vu all over again.

http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=186874&c id=15420215 [slashdot.org]

A music player?

[decadre]

Wouldn't it have to be a "music player" to be an i-pod killer? This is a hand held gaming system, so of course it has a larger screen, of course it has wifi. PSP and DS have both of these but it wouldn't be considered an "i-pod killer", even if it did have a music store. This is like saying "the 360 is the same as a media PC". Yes, it can be used as a media centre, but in fact it is a game console. Marketing it as both is just that, marketing. I would still rather have devoted devices in *some* cases. I like being able to take my nano anywhere with me without having to worry about how much space it will take up. "No I have to wear a jacket on a 35 deg. c day just so I can carry my Argo/PSP/whatever in my pocket" - doesn't make sense

Re:Apple-Nintendo Alliance?!

[7Prime]

No, there is no official relationship between the two companies, but the similarities, especially in business philosophy are uncanny. Share no interests? Think again, they seem to share almost identical innovation philosophies: KISS (keep it simple, stupid), when in doubt, go back and try something completely different (iPod wheel, Nintendo DS & Wii), make one gadget that does one thing very well, the list goes on and on. This all at a time when the word on the street is "features, features, features!", complexity is better than elligance, and innovation is risky business. I don't know any companies who share more similar business philosophies than Apple and Nintendo. Now, that doesn't mean that next year they won't turn around and become huge competitors, but I think they share an almost identical ideology. It does mean that if there is any interest in doing any joint business venture, there is a deffinite compatability there to do so. So, if both of their livelihoods are threatend by the same company in one swoop, if it's worth their while, from a business standpoint, I could easilly see them doing a joint project. I don't think there's any need for one for the time being. Although, it's become fairly clear that Nintendo has taken some cues from Apple: the footprint for the iPod Mini and the GameBoy Micro is identical (even their naming convensions suggest some looking over eachother's shoulders), and the Nintendo DS Lite's styling is way too close to the iPod to be mear cohincidence. But these are not really unexpected, and don't really have anything to do with the business's overall mission statement. Now, their makeup might be quite different, I don't know, but having such an uncannilly similar ideology makes up for some interesting speculation, don't you think?

iPod Killer?

[LKM]

Yeah, I'm gonna strap that to my shoulder and take it with me when jogging.

Something the size of a PSP will never ever be competition to something the size of an iPod nano.

Re:I was worried at first, but now I'm not...

[mgblst]

You are spouting a lot of nonsense. I am glad most people don't believe what you are saying, or we would never have had any interesting devices in the first place. You can argue against extra funcitonality for devices, but it is going to happen. The only reasons it is not hapening now, is due to battery life, CPU power, and memory. These are quickly being overcome, even today a number of devices can be successfully merged (Telephone, PDA, mp3 player). Right now these devices aren't the best, because a lot of tech companies spend all the money on creating new technologies, and not a lot on interfaces, making thins intuitive and a pleasure to use. This will change, and will have to change. Even Apple is working on tech like this. Imagine an ipod sized device, with a full screen on one side, and able to take phone calls, movies, pda, wifi, and with a pleasant UI - it will happen.

(Just because you can site two popular devices, you seemed to be convinced that the world will never change)

Re:AirTunes

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I really don't understand that part about "wire bound". It still needs to be charged, and even with USB1.1 (yes, I've done this), file synching with a portable device is plenty fast for a quick charge. Wireless networking takes a certain amount of power that's better used for longer play life because the networking adds little to the usefulness. On the other hand, I would accept wireless headphones, those standards reduce the entanglement of headphone cables, and current wireless headphones aren't so power hungry as a wireless network adapter.