Microsoft Denies the Windows Kill Switch 513
WindozeSux writes "Microsoft has denied that WGA will kill pirated copies of Windows. According to Waggener Edstrom,"Microsoft anti-piracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer." Microsoft also says that WGA is a necessary part of its campaign to catch those illegally using Windows XP which leads one to think what WGA really does then."
Please, this was never going to happen (Score:5, Insightful)
So, another hyped story killed with a modicum of common sense (and I'm certainly not the first to point this out). I thought IT communities were meant to be filled with rational people?
The usual spin (Score:3, Insightful)
The real question is..! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Please, this was never going to happen...riight (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The real question is..! (Score:5, Insightful)
Because a pirated copy of windows does MS more good than a legal alternative OS?
DUA (Score:3, Insightful)
Several purposes, perhaps... (Score:5, Insightful)
1. They can't (intentionally) kill working copies now. If they killed too many legit copies from too many "false positives", they'd be slapped with a class action that would make the current EU anti-trust pale by comparison.
2. While they can't kill windows, they can divide it into two classes (legit and cracked), and thus allow the legit ones to have all the eye candy and other accessories... not that too many people really care all that much about Power Calculator.
3. It is a test program for a future version of Windows, where they can very reliably kill cracked versions of the product, once they fine-tune their ability to tell a cracked version from a legit one.
I can only hope, however, they don't bog thier products down with so much "detection code" that the app is 90% slower... like recent versions of Norton Systemworks.
Re:DUA (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure they are trembling in fear.
if the records exist, RIAA or anyone can subpoena (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't matter what MS says about your privacy. If they have your information, they can't protect it from subpoena.
The only safe windows box is one that has no connection to the internet.
Re:The real question is..! (Score:5, Insightful)
Because Windows Genuine Advantage is not 100% accurate.
It has declared PCs to be running an illegal copy of Windows when that is not the case.
Now, if Microsoft could guarantee that they were only turning off pirate's PCs, fine. But the first PC they turn off that isn't running a pirated copy of Windows has some pretty nasty repercussions. Especially if that PC happens to be in a large company or owned by a journalist, lawyer or even a prominent person with a blog.
Myself, I think this is the trial run. Let's face it, the first incarnation of anything from Microsoft always sucks. Doubtless Vista will ship with an improved version of WGA, which is slightly harder to crack. Then, a year or two down the line (perhaps with the first service pack), there will be another improved version which actually works quite well. Then... well, then remote killing of pirated Windows installations may just happen.
Re:What does WGA do? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The real question is..! (Score:4, Insightful)
I know linux mentality suggests that 99% of the pirates would suddenly up and switch to an alternative. It won't happen.
Grandma will not spend thousands on a new Mac; she'll get the Geek Squad to install Windows.
Mom won't install Ubuntu; she'll drop a Benjamin on WinXP.
Starving college kids will head over the the school bookstore and grab a student copy for next to nothing.
And MS will make it easy. They'll drop prices and offer discounts if you rat out who gave you the copy. They might even release a tool to map out the distribution of license keys to see if they could track the original licensee.
A WinXP killswitch will not boost the download stats for Debian or RedHat. It'll just boost MS 3rd quarter earnings.
Re:The real question is..! (Score:2, Insightful)
Who started this rumor anyway? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Stop Piracy (Score:5, Insightful)
I doubt that even the tinest fraction of Windows users (who do not post to Slashdot) have given a second thought to WGA or even heard any one of the paranoid rumors which fill these pages.
You are just a number in the system (Score:1, Insightful)
In Soviet Union neighbour calls KGB and your family disappears.
As your life now exists as information - welcome to the digital Gulag.
I'd rather not have WGA be cracked..... (Score:3, Insightful)
Too bad the majority of malicious 'hackers' don't have any clue about the ethical potential of their skills.
Re:if the records exist, RIAA or anyone can subpoe (Score:3, Insightful)
NOT the usual spin! (Score:5, Insightful)
No, this spin is just... beyond. This is one of the funniest (and saddest) things I've ever read (emphasis mine):
In other words, WGA isn't a means of cracking down on piracy, it's a useful tool that companies can use to save money! This message has obvously been brought to you by the same type of people who try to tell everyone that Digital Rights Management is a wonderful thing because it allows you to access content.
Jesus, are people really that naive? Why can't they just say what it is—a tool to keep people who haven't paid them lots of money from using their stuff. At least I could be on board with their motives. (Being paid for stuff I do is nice.) Am I the only one who is insulted not so much by WGA's existence as I am by how stupid they think we are in pitching it?
One 'word' BSA (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The real question is..! (Score:3, Insightful)
Apparently you make enough that 99 dollars isn't much money. To some people, thats a fifth of their rent or half their weekly paycheck before taxes! If Microsoft shut them out, they would be forced to use an alternative OS. Microsoft doesn't want to lose poor people. I got into computing in my teens while I lived in a trailer park. I can tell you that everyone with a computer ran windows 3.1 or 95 in there. (well except me and a friend who pirated NT4) I was a freak when i tried redhat 5. Aside from the obvious hatred of trailer parks I now have, I don't see these people affording anything or wanting to switch off windows.
Now eventually they'd probably get a license to Windows one way or another. As for the restore disc, my mother's HP didn't come with one. I had no way to reinstall Windows ME on her system when she got a virus. (arguably windows me is a virus too) She makes 30,000 a year and has major credit card debt. No windows license for her. My plan to get her legal is to wait till her system dies and then help her get a new lowend dell. I can't build a pc with a windows license for 300 dollars very easily including a monitor.
On a side note, Macs don't cost thousands of dollars. My iBook was $950 and Mac Minis are under 1000. Its not like you have to buy an apple display. They have great refurb deals too.
btw doesn't geek squad charge a lot for windows installs? That would probably make it closer to $200. At that point wait for dell to have a sale...
(yes dell sucks, but they are cheap and you get a free fireplace with each new laptop)
Re:Please, this was never going to happen...riight (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The real question is..! (Score:2, Insightful)
The killswitch would, likely, boost Microsoft's sales. But it would also boost the download stats for Ubuntu and Mandriva by some amount.
There are plenty of people that are getting to a tipping point, but just haven't had any incentive to try the alternatives: People that used keys/cracks because their OEM restore disk won't work now that they've upgraded their hard-drive. People that are getting tired of having to completely re-format their system with the restore disk every time their kids get the latest IE-trojan. People that were in the previously mentioned situation and got a taste of Linux while using Knoppix to back up their data first.
One of the reason's Linux is gaining desktop steam is that Microsoft has already bled off more than a few enthusiasts with their authorization scheme: These are people who want to replace their motherboard every other year without being presented with a blue-screen and Microsoft's solution of completely re-installing the OS (which won't work from the OEM disk, since it's customized for the wrong chipset). These are people that have the legal right to use the OS, and are pissed off that they are being shut out by Microsoft (who knows that most will just fork over more money to buy another copy).
Some might say Linux won't work for "grandma"s. It will. It's perfect for them. You set it up once and they can eBay/eMail with no fear of viruses/trojans. Newer distributions are just as easy as Windows to install. Projects like Wine are making it easier and easier to convert - The one Windows app my parents *had* to have runs flawlessly under Wine.
I hope Microsoft does a great job marketing the 360. Because, every person that buys one loses a good bit of the only major advantage Windows still has as an OS - gaming support.
Windows Kill Switch (Score:2, Insightful)
Before long MS will be scanning your entire system for "assets" that you may not have paid for. Want to play a dvd on your machine? The system will phone home first to check your account balance before starting the movie.
The WGA is a demo to show **IAs how well the toll booth works. And oh by the way, MS will of course, retain a modest fee for staffing the toll booth.
Re:Please, this was never going to happen (Score:5, Insightful)
It's entirely plausible that WGA does a couple of different things without actually being yet another evil conspiracy, and without any active intervention on installed systems.
Here are a couple of plausible theories that make WGA's existence productive, while not infringing on anybody's rights.
1. WGA just identifies pirated copies.
You buy a new system from a smallish vendor. On your first trip to Windows Update, you see a screen telling you that your OS is pirated. Irate, you complain to the vendor; to MS; and escalate through your state's regulatory agencies. This helps MS isolate pirates but does not affect your ability to get updates beyond a "nag" screen.
2. WGA helps MS collect statistics and nothing else.
When systems connect to get fixes, WGA keeps a counter of pirate-detctions. This allows MS to decide how much to budget for future legal enforcement, and how much to budget for future anti-theft engineering.
Re:Please, this was never going to happen (Score:5, Insightful)
It's purpose is to enforce Microsoft's Intellectual Property Rights. And what right is that? There are really only two -- the right to be paid for Windows, and the right to not have to support Windows that has not been paid for.
Let's start with the first 'right': the right to be paid. Simply put, there is no such right. You won't find it anywhere in the laws of the United States. No one is required by law to buy Windows from Microsoft (certain public offices notwithstanding). While it is true that external factors (ease-of-use, company policy, etc) strongly compel purchasing decisions, those factors are not legal, and do not create a 'right' of payment.
Now, the second 'right': the right to receive support. Again, there is no such legal right. True, there are implied warranties of merchantability [lectlaw.com], but these can be expressly disclaimed by an EULA. Let's take a look at the XP Home Edition [microsoft.com] EULA:
So there you have it. They don't have to support their software, ever. If Windows breaks, they have to (a) refund your money, or (b) give you a replacement. They do not have to (c) fix the broken software. Just to make sure you understand that this is their only obligation, they include Microsoft has no duty to support Windows. You have no right to receive support for Windows. The main reason Microsoft supports their software is because it's buggy and they don't want people to use something else.Re:The real question is..! (Score:1, Insightful)
I agree. I really had this (naive) great trust for Microsoft until WGA. Now they've intruded into our office and installed unwanted spyware on our PCs, under the guise of a "Critical Update". This nagware impacts Windows performance making it take longer to log on daily - pops up alarming messages to our users during logon, runtime, logoff, doesn't uninstall, reinstalls itself if disabled manually - sends information to Micosoft - I don't care what Microsoft claims it is - this is SPYWARE.
I will never feel the same again about Microsoft. We have always been compliant in our software licensing, but some unauthorized VLKs had been used to to reinstall XP on some (fully licensed) workstations where the disk had failed, had become infected, or failed for some other reason and the OS needed to be reinstalled. We are now having to reinstall Windows on all of these stations, and in some cases, repurchase the Windows XP Professional licenses at $249 per pop.
I can not emphasize enough how disenchanted this had made me with Microsoft, and how a certain and strong "trust" has now been completely destroyed. This situation has cost us many man-hours and will continue to do so.
Re:Please, this was never going to happen (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't normally "me too", but just in case anyone wants to hear it from a non-AC, that's been my experience too. Each particular version of XP I've dealt with, (Home, HomeOEM, Pro, ProOEM, ProVolumeLicence) immediately refuses a key from a different type. If there are exceptions to this I haven't encountered them.
this is a surprise? (Score:2, Insightful)
Alright, I'm done ranting. The point is, yes of course a company thats job it is to make money is going to try to fight piracy in any way possible (regardless of how underhanded you think it is). But the great thing about the OS field is that there are alternatives. If you don't like how Windows is running, switch, simple as that.
thanks for bearing through that rant.
Re:The real question is..! (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh really? You expect Microsoft to employ thousands of programmers for six years in order to give away the fruits of their labors for free?
Something reasonable for most would be windows ($140),office ($300), a/v, firewall ($60), 3 anti-spyware apps ($90), adobe photoshop ($600), nero 6 ultra ($90), quickbooks ($199), cd ripper/converter/tagger ($79), and alarm software ($20).
WTF are you smoking? Something reasonable would be:
I've never used Quickbooks or alarm software (alarm software? what the fuck?) but I'm sure there are lower-cost alternatives as well for those who need them. Also, stripped-down versions of Nero and Photoshop come free with most burners and cameras/scanners respectively. No need to pirate them.
Misdirection (Score:5, Insightful)
FTA: "No, Microsoft antipiracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer," said a spokeswoman with Waggener Edstrom, Microsoft's public relations firm.
Ah, but will it disable my installation of Windows? That's the part I care about.
She did not answer the question. She did not deny that WGA can diasble your installation of Windows. Why do we listen to PR flaks so uncritically?
WGA (Score:2, Insightful)
This reminds me of Xerox in the early computer days when they could have ruled the PC market. But no, they were simply trying to defend against the future. See where it got them??
You had better pay attention MicroSHAFT!
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
A large user base (whether legal or not) gave M$ an upper edge to its competitors
Business and support usually goes to where the people are
Why do companies make hardware and software for Windows? -because it has a large userbase
Why do people use windows? -because it has a large current userbase (they go where their friends, families, relatives are)
(offtopic but this is similar to Instant Messenging - Why are so many ppl using AIM? -same reason, because other ppl are)
This is one of the reasons why Steve Jobs offered to give away OS X free to the $100 dollar laptop project (though it wasn't accepted
So to me it seems Microsoft is doing economic suicide by going after the pirates (aggressively anyway)
donate for a tax writeoff? (Score:3, Insightful)
Listen, Bill Gate's donations to charity keep him from having to pay huge amounts of dollars to the government in taxes. This simply allows him to keep more of his money.
I'm not standing up for Bill Gates, actually if you look at my posting history you'll see I don't like Microsoft, but Bill donating the money to his foundation doesn't allow him to keep more of his money no matter how you look at it. Actually he keeps less of it, tax writeoff for what is donated isn't $1+ for each dollar donated, ie you don't get more than a dollar tax writeoff for each dollar donated. You get less than a dollar for each dollar you donate, depending on what your tax bracket is each dollar donated may only allow you to writeoff 39% or whatever.
FalconWord of the Day: Switcher (Score:0, Insightful)
A person who thinks that they are a Mac user [atspace.com] but are really just trying to be. The mistake they make is to try to become a Mac user [atspace.com], when real Mac users [atspace.com] are all about not trying to be anything and following your own rules. There is no fashion code to being a Mac user [atspace.com]. There are no rules as to what applications you have to run.
Recent converts like you [atspace.com] are ruining the old school Mac community [atspace.com] because you are posers. Apple releases one OS that popularizes Fitts' law and the Genie effect, and suddenly people assume being a Mac user [atspace.com] is all about owning a Mac. But a real Mac user [atspace.com] is born, not made. You "switchers" [atspace.com] are misrepresenting yourselves and the Mac platform. You're giving people the wrong idea of what Macintosh is.
switcher: shops at hot topic, thinks Firefox is a good Mac app, waiting for OS X port of PayrollPro 2000, follows any hint of a fashion trend (instead of setting them!), wouldn't know Clarus from Carl Sagan.
real Mac user: someone true to who they are, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules and they have no respect for the status quo. The ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world.
Re:Why the FUD? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes. Political cartoons can be too much for those with delicate sensitivities. Poor you. Anyway, impartiality was never something Slashdot claimed to have, so why on earth would anybody complain?
There are a hundred and one reasons to think very poorly of Billy boy, and people who like computers are generally very aware of them.
Conversely, those who side with the psychopathic corporate initiative to take over the universe are often quite ignorant of MS's many transgressions, --which probably also means, (if they are into computers), that they aren't particularly smart or generally aware of much of the world. --Typically, such people seem to have the boring host of garden variety fears running rampent through their brains; the fear of homosexuality in your post jumps out at me, and thus your belief that calling somebody a 'faggot' is actually a damaging insult when all it really does is make mature people shake their heads at you.
People only use insults that they would be unhappy to have used against them. I'm a prime example; I'm calling you stupid and ignorant because I'd hate to be called those things myself. You, however, are using 'faggot' as an insult which leads me to think that you probably have a deeply nestled thing for naked men. Poor, poor you.
-FL
Re:They might not be a nice company (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:That's copy protection for ya (Score:4, Insightful)
In the real, imperfect world, Apple's solution of making the hardware and software together, for each computer gives them the freedom not to have to go through all of this stupid, wasteful activation crap. It is pretty hard to make a free copy of a whole computer. This is only one good reason to prefer their computers over Windows. Apple makes it easy to replace an existing hard drive with a bigger and/or faster model and then re-installing the OS back thereon, together with all users and settings. No need for a user to phone Apple or have an internet connection.
Once MS makes it hard enough for ordinary, honest users to keep their own computers running, perhaps more and more people will begin to see the advantage of a company that makes the whole widget, all as a seamlessly operating thing that "just works". What other product is there, whose continuing functionality is at the whim of its producer, other than a computer running Windows XP or later? It seems that the attitude of MS is that THEY own your computer and therefore can "license" its use to you on terms they decide, since you are just renting it from them. Why should a car owner have to get permission from the manufacturer to replace or modify the engine or some other part of the car? Apple's model is that the user OWNS the vehicle, MS makes people passengers in a taxi, where MS, the taxi driver decides the route and fee to a destination or whether you are even allowed to go there at all. As a home owner, you are allowed to make minor structural modifications to your living space or repaint the whole place in weird colors, but as a renter, you better get permission from the landlord first. MS sees itself as the landlord of every computer running Windows.