Internet Deconstructing State Church in Finland 808
Agnostic writes "Freethinkers of the city of Tampere, who advocate separation of state and church in Finland, created a Web site
in 2003
to assist people in resigning from the church. The Web site soon became a big success in Finland. 39% of all resignations in 2004 went through the web site and 69% of all resignations in 2005. In the same process 22% more people resigned from the church in 2005 than in 2004. The most common reason cited for resigning from the church has been saving church income tax (1.3% on average)."
Church? (Score:5, Funny)
I resigned from the church ages ago, where's the site to help people resign from the state?
Someone should make something like this... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm glad I don't pay any tithes... (Score:3, Funny)
In medieval England, wasn't the church tithe 10%? They're lucky its only about one percent!
Real Reason. (Score:0, Funny)
Re:Real Reason. (Score:3, Funny)
You bet money is more important than some old Jewish bloke who lived 2000 years ago!
Re:Church? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:church income tax? (Score:2, Funny)
So when democracy came about, the laws about christianity and the "state church" just kinda stayed on the books
To be fair, it's fairly simple to opt-out of, and one does get something in return for the tax (christenings, weddings, funerals etc. are all free of charge).
Re:I'm glad I don't pay any tithes... (Score:5, Funny)
It used to be 10%, but some priest got greedy and wanted to collect more money, so he proposed "Tithing^2 -- Taking god's money to the MAX!".
It was much later that he realized his mistake.
Finnish Line (Score:4, Funny)
I see a new threat to Freedom lurking on the horizon, ready to enter the Republican Party platform as "them" in the "us vs them" Terror War just in time for 2006 Campaign Season.
Didn't I hear about some "Cathedral vs Bazaar" terrorist manifesto praising the Finnish cyberterrorists attacking America's beloved Microsoft?
We've got to rip these Internets out by the roots!
Re:Someone should make something like this... (Score:5, Funny)
Vincent: I want to quit the church.
CSR: Sorry to hear that. Let's pull your file up here real quick. Can I have your name, please?
Vincent: Vincent Ferrari
CSR: 'K, Vincent . . . All right, thank you very much. Okay. You've been with the church for a long time.
Vincent: I just don't use it anymore.
CSR: Okay. Well actually, I'm showing a lot of usage on this church file.
Vincent: Yeah, a long time ago. Not recently.
(Here the service rep asks about another file that belongs to Ferrari's dad.)
CSR: Well, what's causing you to want to resign from the church today? I mean obviously, I mean . . .
Vincent: I don't use it and he doesn't use it, so we're quitting the church. . . . I don't need it. I don't want it. I just don't need it anymore.
CSR: Well, on June 2nd, you went to church. You were there for 72 hours. On June 2nd.
Vincent: I don't know how to make it any clearer . . .
CSR: Last month was 545 hours of church usage.
Vincent: I don't know how to make this any clearer, so I'm just going to say it one last time. Resign me. Please.
CSR: Well explain to me what's, wha, why . . .
Vincent: I'm not explaining anything to you. Resign. Me.
CSR: Wha, what's the matter, Vincent? We're just . . . I'm just trying to help here.
Vincent: You're not helping me. Helping me would be . . .
CSR: I am trying to help . . .
Vincent: Listen! I called to resign from the church. Helping me would be resigning me from the church. Please help me and resign me from the church.
CSR: No, it wouldn't actually . . .
Vincent: Resign me!
CSR: Resigning you . . .
Vincent: Resign. Me. From. The. Church. Resign. Me. From. The. Church...
Re:Church? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Anti-religion (Score:3, Funny)
Gaah! Lutherans! (Score:4, Funny)
Subversive? We're talking about combatting Lutheranism, here. There's nothing more subversive than Lutherans. They have managed to completely take over most of the upper midwest of the US, causing Minnesota to have thousands of lakes in which to hide their underwater fortresses (called "Perches"), and making almost everyone chant their subversive mantras, "Oh yah, you betcha" and "Well, OK then!"
Their prophet, Garrison Keillor, uses his vast network of National Public Radio stations to broadcast his "Pray At Home Companion" show directly into the minds of members, who then send in money and get back tote bags with subliminal messages embroidered onto them by Hmong immigrants working in Wisconsin sweat shops. Keillor's goal? Transition to a sinister god-like form known as a "Lex Lutheran," which allows him to have a hot, but dumb, female sidekick.
Re:church income tax? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:church income tax? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Someone should make something like this... (Score:5, Funny)
Sorry, but that requires a serious act of contrition.
Much like how baby rapists can't just say "oops, sorry, won't do it again", the same applies to AOL users. They need to prove they've learned their lesson, and truly repented of their old ways.
Re:Anti-religion (Score:3, Funny)
Haven't been to Utah much, have you? Or Idaho? Where I live, I have *three* completely different religions showing up semi-regularly at my door asking me to join them. I always say I can't coz I'm too busy waxing the goat in preparation for MY religion and ask if they'd like to join. They always say no, even though my religion involves cute blond women and free chocolate chip cookies. Shows how smart THEY are.
Re:How is that subversive? (Score:2, Funny)
Me, I believe I shall have a sandwich. Is that not a theological statement? I also have quite a bit of faith in the fact that the sun will, once again, rise tomorrow. Is that not also a theological statement?
For a less flippant example, many people believe that poverty is a large source of the world's problems, and they work to eliminate it. Is this a theological statement, and action?
Re:Someone should make something like this... (Score:2, Funny)
In real life this would be more like:
CSR: Re-signing you . . .
Re:Al a carte government services time has come (Score:3, Funny)
Whew, in that case I'm being ripped off pretty badly (paying way more in taxes than my public school education was worth).
I prefer to look at it as paying to keep most rugrats and punks off the streets, if only for six hours a day and half the year. I'd gladly pay more if it'd keep them busy all day long, all year round.
Re:The exit interview (Score:4, Funny)
Wow, that's hardcore. When I did the same in Sweden, all I had to do was print and sign a letter and send to my church and BAM! Straight to hell!
Overrated and good, put in perspective. (Score:1, Funny)
Statistics.
And the Church is terrified. Thay are losing income at an increasing pace. They have already announced a need to shrink the number of priests and church workers in the future.
They're honest to let go people that have no good work scheduled to them. A state wouldn't be so kind as to keep labor ready in correlation to need, but to cause an insolvency to induct in the politic of unused service offsetting actual labor being rendered. It looks like the book of Job is being accurately used in the job security at that church. The clergy are being honest, and want no unnecessary burden to attach/tact/tax upon the congregation.
The Lutheran Church of Finland is still trying to defend it's bastion as a major institution on par with government, army and universities. The lutheran church in Sweden has already been kicked out from government protection and the process is beginning in Norway.
The tone in your words resonate of an unconditional dislike to a church. Whatever doesn't qualify as a church, is not to be trusted to minister on your behalf and to the generosoty of your credit.
The Chuch is still powerful - almost evil - consider this:
- Most don't even notice that 1.3% of their income is sucked out
- At the age of 14, kids have to go to religious camps where they are forced to attest their faith. When they graduate, they are rewarded with presents and told that "now they are adults". You might have thought state-churches are tame, but this a Brainwashing, and nothing else. Bloody sickening.
- Even today there is just one (or two?) graveyards for non-religious people - and the church loves it's monopoly - if you are as an atheist buried to church graveyard, you'll have to pay hefty extra.
- Religion is thought in school, and the 85% who are members, MUST attend and pass. Otherwise no diplomas are coming your way. Could we possibly use this time better? Maths, languages, anyone?
- Due to all this brainwashing, is it no wonder that many people in Finland are completely unable to critizise or question the church or religion. Even though nobody talks about it, it is somehow accepted as a part of "culture".
1.3% of income is all necessary for an efficient government (not Government/person). If they didn't notice their money moving to the church services, and don't notice any improvement to their quality of life in the form of actual church services, then there is a refund in order. I agree that it is sickening for a church to qualify who has committed adultery and who is not, especially whhen the scope of language divides the innocent nature in children to act like an adult in concert with the Queen of the damned. With your evidence of graveyards, according to my Bible, evince that a church that holds graveyards is a grave itself; the Lord Jesus says to "let the dead burry the dead." And don't try my ears to say what religion is or not; all law is a matter of religion; your anger is misplaced at religion and the truth that upholds and established religion, when it need to be re-directed to the misplaced trust a malevolent court wards over you as the subject in controversey (become a court of competent jurisdiction already). There needs to be taught reciprocal thought process, to audit all manner of teaching; starting with "faith" defined as "the evidence of things not seen."
In this perspective the phenomenon that is reported here is perhaps THE best internet movement that has ever taken place in Finland. Lot's of money and people are involved, and I hope, some cleansing of th