Defeating China's National Firewall 370
Bruce Schneier is reporting on his blog that a recent paper is discussing how to defeat China's national firewall. From the article: "However, because the original packets are passed through the firewall unscathed, if both of the endpoints were to completely ignore the firewall's reset packets, then the connection will proceed unhindered! We've done some real experiments on this -- and it works just fine!! Think of it as the Harry Potter approach to the Great Firewall -- just shut your eyes and walk onto Platform 9¾."
Publish and Perish (Score:5, Interesting)
On the otherhand, the more they try to squeeze star systems, the more they will slip out of thier han (or something like that).
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:3, Funny)
> Okay, now that you let the cat out of the bag, how long before the Great Chinese Firewall gets this hole plugged?
>On the otherhand, the more they try to squeeze star systems, the more they will slip out of thier han (or something like that).
Damn. Leave it to a supernatural being to figure out how to get the Goatse Guy through the psychic firewall.
How to get drugs into USA (Score:4, Insightful)
See the parallel?
Re:How to get drugs into USA (Score:5, Funny)
Re:How to get drugs into USA (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How to get drugs into USA (Score:2)
You forgot something... (Score:5, Funny)
You can pick up from "Here's how you can get those poor miserable people the drugs they want and need..."
Thanks!
Drug Parallel (Score:3, Insightful)
AND it would clean up the Drug Cartel Violence found in Brazil, Argentina, Mexico
Re:Drug Parallel (Score:3, Insightful)
I believe a libertarian would say if a parent doesn't want their kids doing drugs, it's up to them to stop it, not to the government to regulate it. Who is the government to say who should use what and how much?
Again, I personally agree with you 100%, just wondering how you reconcile your viewpoint with libertarian philosophy. Since that is one reason I am no longer a libertarian, though I still consider myself a civil libertarian.
Re:Drug Parallel (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Drug Parallel (Score:3, Insightful)
Why NOT legalize drugs for children? Many school districts require parents to medicate their kids if labeled "attention deficit disorder." That's compulsory amphetamines for kids mandated by the state. Ritalin & Aderall = amphetamine derivities = speed. I could imagine that some of these little tweakers might want to smoke a joint or two to slow down. It's not like they have any say in the matter... yet it's the "children" that drug laws are supposed to protect.
Re:Drug Parallel (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Drug Parallel (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Drug Parallel (Score:4, Insightful)
You do realize that this policy would justify every existing form of regulation and taxation? Income, after all, is nothing more than a straight trade, currency for labor. Even inheritance taxes would be justified, since inheritance is a gift from one person to another, and gifts are merely a subset of trades in which "goodwill" is traded for tangible property. What, then, would you consider a "forced" tax, since you have apparently chosen to define all taxes and regulations as "voluntary"?
More generally, any claim by a third party for a portion of the goods exchanged in any trade against the will of both the buyer and the seller must be considered theft from a libertarian point of view. That includes all taxes, which -- by definition -- differ from trades only in that they are coerced, i.e. non-voluntary. That has always been the libertarian position, despite the claims of the so-called Libertarian Party to the contrary. The LP has been sacrificing libertarian principles for political power for some time now; their present goals, while more liberal than the two major parties, are hardly "libertarian" in nature.
Re:Drug Parallel (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Drug Parallel (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Drug Parallel (Score:3, Insightful)
"I am a Libertarian [...] the government should regulate the HELL out of them"
No sir, you are NOT a libertarian. A libertarian would want heroin to be available from your local Wal-mart on the same terms as table salt.
"I am a Christian [...] the filioque controversy was damned silly"
No, sir, you are NOT a Christian. A Christian knows the spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son.
The gap between ideology and philosophy is huge, and the gap between labeling and ideology is even bigger. Libe
Re:Drug Parallel (Score:3, Insightful)
I do not believe in or advocate the initiation of force as a means of achieving political or social goals.
While some people who consider themselves to be libertarians may hold contradictory ideas, or support taxation and regulation, these are NOT holding with the libertarian ideal or Libertarian party policy.
Re:How to get opium into China (Score:2)
Re:How to get drugs into USA (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no parallel. The prohibitions on freedom of speech on and information about the different forms of government are uniquely self-perpetuating. Prohibitions on alcohol, drugs, and almost anything else are not like that and can be abolished by the popular will within a reasonably democratic society because discussing them remains legal, even if using is not.
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:2, Informative)
Why plug it? I have a feeling that instead they'll just roll up the death vans [edmunds.com] and execute those criminals. After all, if they are defeating the firewall, they clearly are up to something sneaky and are a threat to the existing order...
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:4, Insightful)
But how will they know? You cannot tell if a remote host is responding to reset packets from your firewall, at least not directly. This seems like it will work.
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:5, Insightful)
If you had to send multiple resets for the same port pair, they're ignoring you.
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:2)
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:2, Insightful)
Car Enthusiast Site Has Article on Death Vans? (Score:2)
"Hey baby, want to take a ride in my death van? Oh yeah, I'll give YOU a lethal injection!"
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:2, Informative)
Some people have ridiculously high opinion of
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:2)
And here I was thinking you were talking about Kleen star [wikipedia.org] systems.
I knew there was a joke hiding in those packets someplace.
Re:Publish and Perish (Score:3, Interesting)
Depends on whether they can reconfigure the existing equpment to do it or if they have tobuy a bunch more stuff.
If they've implemented it as a packet sniffer that drops in a forged reset, rather than something inline, they're probably going to need a redesign and to buy a BUNCH of smarter boxes - at least for either the boundary between them and the rest of the net, or the edge between their inte
The sound you hear... (Score:4, Funny)
Dear Guys, (Score:5, Funny)
Your Pal,
Wen
Duh ... just use Gopherspace (Score:4, Interesting)
Detectable and Illegal (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Detectable and Illegal (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Detectable and Illegal (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem hinges on the fact that the is no (
When are they going to realise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:When are they going to realise... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:When are they going to realise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:When are they going to realise... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:When are they going to realise... (Score:2)
Re:When are they going to realise... (Score:2)
Or have they found a way to censor what they say in real life too? Impressive.
National Firewall (Score:2)
Will it be able to deal with this enormous amount of traffic jamming into a "single point"?
The Great Firewall of China (Score:2, Funny)
Re:National Firewall (Score:3, Interesting)
Damn you Mongolians! (Score:5, Funny)
Jeez, why is it everytime chinese build a wall, those damn mongolians gotta break it down?
They're not Mongolians... (Score:4, Informative)
They're Mongorians!
And before someone lambasts me for making fun of Engrish, I should clarify that I'm amused by all variations of the English language. A good number of my fellow Maltese citizens butcher English, for example, even though it's supposed to be a first language. Only in Malta can you fill your car up with pitlor (petrol), have your football team lose on a pineltri (penalty), and make windows out of enimielju (aluminium). By the way, those aren't Maltese words, those are what many Maltese people think the English words actually are. Oh, and they also think that Hoover, Jablo, Kenwood, and Geyser literally mean a vacuum cleaner, polystrene foam, a cake mixer, and a hot water heater, respectively.
Here's the South Park clip about Mongorians from YouTube [youtube.com].
Re:They're not Mongolians... (Score:2)
Re:They're not Mongolians... (Score:3, Interesting)
I think Engrish is funny, but it's the Japanese that speak it, not the Chinese. Of course, to most white westerners there's no difference whatsoever between the two cultures.
Maybe you think being racist and ignora
Re:Damn you Mongolians! (Score:2)
Harry Potter??! (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe if the Chinese authorities found you on board this 'train', they could act like those terrible dementor things I guess.
Re:Harry Potter??! (Score:2)
By sucking all the happiness out of you? Maybe. More likely they'll just send you to 'Azkaban'.
Irresponsible (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Irresponsible? (Score:2)
Re:Irresponsible (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Irresponsible (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Irresponsible (Score:4, Informative)
Huh? Why can't they have help? (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because a Revolution receives assisstance from the outside makes it no more or less legitimate.
SirWired
Re:Irresponsible (Score:2)
Think how much easier the revolution will be to organize and execute with open access to the Internet.
Freedom of information isn't an abstract end-in-itself. It is a practical tool used by free people everywhere, especially those living under dictatorships, to gain power over their own lives.
Re:Irresponsible (Score:2)
Re:Irresponsible (Score:2)
On Slashdot, they/we cover myriad cases relating to bypassing MS WPA authenitication, illicit p2p file-sharing, and numerous other things that are illegal in certain sovereign western states, where the citizens have considerably greater control over their government. It's news for nerds, and, unlik
Re:Irresponsible (Score:2)
Why is revolution the only answer? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why do you think that the only legitimate way to deal with a bad government is to overthrow it, by election or force? What's wrong with getting a bad government to change its ways?
Do you think that any time a government is doing something bad, that the government should be overthrown (or voted out)? What if a government is doing some really wrong things, but it's also doing some good things? Suppose you think that a President has done one thing that's very wrong, but that aside from that one thing, he's done a fantastic job. Are you morally obliged to vote that President out? Imagine it's 1948. You think Truman did a terrible thing when he used nuclear weapons in Japan, but you approve of everything else he's done, and you don't like Dewey. Are you morally required to vote for Dewey anyway?
Do you think that armed rebellion is the only way for a non-democratic government to become democratic? If so, why do you think this? There are examples in recent history of non-democratic governments becoming democratic without a shot being fired (e.g., most of Eastern Europe). Or think about the way the U.K. changed from a non-democratic monarchy to a parliamentary democracy with a figurehead monarch.
Have you thought about what would be involved in overthrowing China's government by force? For some period of time, China would be without any government at all. Think how wonderful it would be for a country with a population of over a billion and a large supply of nuclear weapons to find itself suddenly without a government.
One way to get a government to stop trying to regulate something is to make its efforts to regulate it spectacularly ineffective. This happened in the United States with Prohibition. Why can't it happen in China?
Re:Irresponsible (Score:2)
Re:Irresponsible (Score:3, Insightful)
If the Chinese people start an uprising and ask for help, that's a different story althogether. Barring that, stay out of their fucking business. I'm pretty sure you d
Re:Irresponsible (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Irresponsible (Score:2)
But where will we get all our cheap plastic shit then? Time to move the production to another oppressive country, I guess.
What I'd really like is for all of those countries to get their personal freedom at once. Much more efficient to not have to keep moving manufacturing centers from country to country. Sure, prices will go up, b
Re:Irresponsible (Score:2)
I think the last time the people truly rose up against their government was the French Revolution, give or take. Sure, there are coups in other countries, but they are almost never a revolution "of the people", and they almost always result in someone worse taking power.
No, that's the last thing we want to see in China just as China is starting to show signs of becoming progressively more and more westernized with every passing year....
Re:Irresponsible (Score:2)
That's because you don't include e.g. Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Germany, Romania, Bulgaria. Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are in a similar category, since they became independent countries as well as democratic countries. Remember what happened to Ceausescu, btw?
DOS? (Score:3, Insightful)
This has the potential to triple the traffic through their firewall as resets are sent for every packet. So consequently, not only is it an illegal act of hacking (even by US standards) but the potential does exist for a resulting DOS attack that could take the firewall down completely.
Kids have to much time on their hands. No matter how "horrible" Chinese internet policy is by US standards, it's their damned network segment. Let them work it out for themselves.
It's not THEIRS (Score:5, Insightful)
The chinese internet doesn't belong to the chinese government, it belongs to the chinese people. When they have a real democracy then "they" (the people) can decide how to run it. Until then we shouldn't respect how "they" (the government) want to run the internet any more than we would if some bank robbers were holding hostages and "they" (the robbers) wanted to decide how to run the bank.
Re:It's not THEIRS (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re:DOS? (Score:2)
Re:DOS? (Score:2)
Re:the chinese government is illegitimate (Score:5, Interesting)
During the Chinese civil war, the Communist party was overwhelmingly supported by the people.
Your assertion that non-democratic societies are illegitimate suggests that most societies in history have been illegitimate. I'm not sure that's a particularly useful definition of legitimacy.
legitimacy decays over time (Score:3, Insightful)
ask the street what they think of him now
i have no doubt that nationalism is fervent in china. i also have no doubt that a chinese person can separate pride in china from pride in the CCP. i am proud to be an american, but i don't like the bush administration. see how that works?
additionally, in 2008, i know bush won't be in the white house anymore. and i will get to add my voice to who the next leader will be. and so i am happy with how my government works, e
I don't kmow about China (Score:4, Informative)
I used to use JAP [tu-dresden.de] (a similar project but the client was Java based and less transparent) but Tor is considerably faster. Throughput up to 60K/sec on a 512k/sec DSL line (as fast as it ever goes with no proxy) means that it's practical to use for all traffic and makes the needle much harder to find in the haystack.
for those who didn't read harry potter (Score:4, Funny)
This should take a while to plug (Score:5, Interesting)
Just a thought.
the_crowbarRe:This should take a while to plug (Score:2)
Bad example! (Score:5, Funny)
Or you just type in:
idspispopd = Walk through wall in noclip style
America is beginning to have it's own firewall. (Score:2)
Gambling too. Using phone lines to bet shouldn't be illegal. Encroaches on civil liberties.
Re:America is beginning to have it's own firewall. (Score:2)
Just a scratch on the surface (Score:2, Insightful)
Spoofed resets don't work against a modern OS (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Spoofed resets don't work against a modern OS (Score:3, Insightful)
Great walls not so great in China (Score:3, Interesting)
This sort of reminds me of the way the Mongols defeated the Great Wall of China.
Did they tear the wall down? No.
Did they march around one end of the wall? No.
They simply bribed a guard to open the gates.
Maybe China shouldn't be so fixated on walls.
Cisco will be upset! (Score:3, Insightful)
Then he'll go home to his wife and kids, proud that he's done a good job. If you're here, raise your hand.
Kind of funny, eh, that repression has been outsourced to us now. (Yes, Cisco helped set up the great firewall, sold the equipment, and worked extensively to prevent free access by Chinese citizens.)
Re:HAXORED BY CHINESE! (Score:3)
Firewall 1,306,313,812; Haxors 1 ?
Re:Unless the web server also ignores reset packet (Score:2)
Re:Unless the web server also ignores reset packet (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It's a dying shame that /. is censored in China (Score:2)