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DefectiveByDesign Supporters to Call on RIAA Execs 444

johnsu01 writes "DefectiveByDesign.org is organizing a call-in campaign for today. People around the country will be calling high-ranking RIAA officials to deliver the message that DRM is an unacceptable restriction on the freedom of consumers and citizens. DefectiveByDesign will provide the numbers to call when you sign up. This action should attract the people who thought that Apple was not a good target because it is the RIAA that requires DRM and those who think that wearing HazMat suits is obnoxious. Everyone can vote with their dollars, but that doesn't tell the RIAA why they aren't getting the dollars. With a few thousand people signed up already, they will undoubtedly know after today."
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DefectiveByDesign Supporters to Call on RIAA Execs

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  • by Entropy ( 6967 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:32AM (#15588493)
    DefectiveByDesign will provide the numbers to call when you sign up.

    Why should I have to sign up? Just post the damn numbers and then request I sign up, and explain why it's important. I mean, I know that requiring registration is by no means the equal of DRM, but on some philosophical levels it does present it's ironies ..
  • by Professor_UNIX ( 867045 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:34AM (#15588497)
    It sounds more like a bunch of people are going to be calling up and harassing people. If you don't like their policies, DON'T BUY THEIR MUSIC! It's that simple. You don't need to explain why you're not buying it since you're not doing business with them anymore. Go buy from Indie labels. You're acting like a kid who says he's not going to talk to you anymore and then spends the next 2 hours trying to get you to ask him why he's not talking to you anymore. You know what? They don't care!
  • by kjart ( 941720 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:35AM (#15588499)

    Call me cynical, but does anyone else find it sad that this is promoted as such a "cause" to fight for? Has consumerism come so far that we are now protesting the things we buy? This [defectivebydesign.org] isn't really the context that I think of when I think of a 'freedom fighter' (their label, not mine).

    Though, I suppose, it's not like there are any wars or civil liberty issues to protest nowadays.....

    All that being said, DRM sucks.

  • by davmoo ( 63521 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:35AM (#15588500)
    And precisely how do these people expect to get past the front switchboard or the secretary to actually talk to Mr. Powerfull RIAA Person?

  • by kjart ( 941720 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:39AM (#15588517)

    If you don't like their policies, DON'T BUY THEIR MUSIC!

    I couldn't agree more. Nobody is being forced to buy their stuff. Even if the big labels were the only outlet of music (and they're most certainly not) you _still_ wouldn't have to buy anything from them. You don't see me protesting McDonalds because the Big Mac is a piece of crap - I take my business elsewhere.

  • by Kaitiff ( 167826 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:42AM (#15588543) Homepage
    While I can understand your point on 'some philosophical level', it shows a level of dedication to stand up and be counted. In this day and age, marches and protests are superseded by our ability to bitch and whine on message boards and blogs. Anonymity is something we need to protect on the 'net, but stepping into the limelight makes a much bolder statement. It takes a lot more courage and dedication to a cause to have your name be listed than using a pseudonym. Please take note of my hypocrisy; I do believe this will be posted as an anonymous coward because I can't recall my nick on here. :)
  • by William Robinson ( 875390 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:43AM (#15588545)
    Though, I would love to see RIAA disappear as much as the next person, I serously doubt what this canpaign would achieve. RIAA (and all almighty power they have) would not have existed in first place if there were no need of them.

    If they can be convinced not to make too much fuss about everything on this earth, maybe things will be OK.

    my 2 cents

  • by plasmacutter ( 901737 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:44AM (#15588551)
    in this age of globalism and a world where international borders become less and less meaningful the elite can no longer subjugate people through conquering other lands and calling them "colonies".

    Despite this the elite long for those days long ago when serfs were forced to work without pay and without the right to property for the enrichment of their masters receiving only "security" in return. (that was the case.. after all the "lords" were there to protect them from raiding hordes after the fall of the roman empire)

    As such, they have now found a new way of stripping away our right to own and govern property using technology and the great constitutional end-run known as contract law.

    Make no mistake, this is a fight for freedom. It may not be as glorious, as roudy, or as conventional as you remember, but then again the american revolution was unlike any war since as well.. no grand columns of soldiers, but guerrilla attacks which the british considered "cowardly" and "childish". (see the original lyrics to yankee doodle for references)
  • by famebait ( 450028 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:48AM (#15588566)
    The problem with that is that the resulting sales drop will
    be blamed on piracy, and used as lobbying ammo for keeping and
    extending draconian DRM/copyright laws.
  • by CowboyBob500 ( 580695 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:51AM (#15588580) Homepage
    Voting with your feet is a useful tool of protest, but why not attack them on two fronts? It should be any individuals right in a free country to protest peacefully. That includes phoning up perpetrators of stupid laws and harrassing them (work hours only, at their office - not at their homes). Make their lives uncomfortable both in their work lives AND in their pockets.

    Bob
  • by burnetd ( 90848 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:52AM (#15588588)
    If you do not explain why you're not buying their CD's then the following will happen...
    • They won't know you are not buying them due to DRM.
    • They will just put any reduction in sales down to 'piracy' and use more DRM.
  • by kjart ( 941720 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:53AM (#15588590)

    As such, they have now found a new way of stripping away our right to own and govern property using technology and the great constitutional end-run known as contract law.

    I'll say it again - DRM sucks. But I really dont see how it is stripping away your right to own and govern property. It may be restricting your ability to use the property they are trying to sell you - but guess what? You don't have to buy it. Nobody is forcing you to buy music from major record labels. Even if they were the only show in town (which they aren't) you still wouldn't have to buy a single CD from them.

    That's where your analogy colapses. Whereas the British had soldiers with guns that actually did force you to do something (i.e. pay taxes) the only one you have to blame for buying a Britney Spears (or whatever) CD with DRM is yourself.

  • by Nicodemus101 ( 960204 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:53AM (#15588591)
    Spread the word about this call-in by asking your friends to register today! When you log in on Friday we'll give you a special number to call. After you've made your call, you can let us know how it went.

    I think the email would go something like this:

    Dear defectivebydesign Team
    I called that fantastic number you supplied me with. I was confronted with a recorded message stating "Welcome to RIAA, DRM department, the person you are looking for is not available at the moment. Please leave a message and he'll/she'll get back to you as soon as possible. Your call is important to us. Have nice day"

    How to get a lot of people to sing up to your page:
    1) Find a lot of people on the internet
    2) Find a cause they all hate
    3) Give them a little hope by signing up to your page
    4) Sell thier details to the highest bidder for spam production
    5) Profit profit profit
  • by Eideewt ( 603267 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @07:59AM (#15588613)
    My guess would be that they want to balance the number of calls to each phone number, and they want to know how many people participated. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
  • by plasmacutter ( 901737 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:01AM (#15588615)
    I'll say it again - DRM sucks. But I really dont see how it is stripping away your right to own and govern property.

    Part of the term "property" involves the owner's right to fully govern it, not some corporation or elitist slobs.

    It may be restricting your ability to use the property they are trying to sell you - but guess what? You don't have to buy it. Nobody is forcing you to buy music from major record label

    And nobody is forcing you to breathe air.

    I think its about time this straw man was debunked. Culture is as essential to humanity as air, food, shelter and water, and like it or not the RIAA and their related organizations have a near monopoly control over the most popular and dominant expressions of our culture. If we do not own our culture and have a right to participate in it I say our "sentience" is highly overrated, and we need to go back to the trees where we belong.
  • by h2gofast ( 934016 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:09AM (#15588642)
    The issue is that it is not THEIR music, the music belongs to the artists and the distibutors operate like they own it because they have set up signifigant roadblocks to going around their distribution channels. Try to find an unsigned band on the radio. In North America 99% of music played on the radio is distibuted by major labels. How's that for controlling what gets heard by the consumer. If you want to make it in the music business, having a great product is not enough. You have to get signed and into the distribution channels designed to screw the artists. Granted, you have exceptions like Ani DiFranco (sp?), but if you want to buy the music in the U.S.A. you have to deal with this. It's not like we can go to another bakery to buy our bread because we don't like the prices at one. If you want bread you gotta get it from these guys.
          Unless you literally meant, don't buy it, which is exactly what is happening. The RIAA gangsters aren't the only distribution anymore. The internet is replacing them. The loosers are the Metallicas and Sheryl Crows who won't be making millions of dollars off of a rigged system. I'm a capitalist and an entrepeneur, so I know a scam when I see one. For every Sheryl Crow making a million dollars, there are a dozen more good artists who couldn't make a living because they couldn't get signed. It's not that the system makes a lot of money for Sheryl Crow (a good thing), the issue is that the system kills off opportunities for a lot of others to startup their own business as a musician and make money (a bad thing).
  • by Entropy ( 6967 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:10AM (#15588645)
    My guess would be that they want to balance the number of calls to each phone number, and they want to know how many people participated. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

    Those goals are reasonable - but can be attained without forcing a signup to get the numbers.

    You can ASK people "if you participate, please let us know".

    And you can ask them to choose a number by rolling a die.

    I'm not saying that the registration is evil, it's just counter intuitive in this context, not to mention annoying.
  • by damburger ( 981828 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:14AM (#15588659)
    Given that the underlying issue is freedom of speech vs. property rights, this issue is FAR from trivial.

    We live in a society that worships at the alter of the free market. The invisible hand can do no wrong and anyone who claims otherwise is a dirty commie. The abundant nature of data on an open network is heresy to this new religion though - the market requires scarcity to function. A scarcity must be introduced so that the glorious march of capitalism can continue.

    On the other hand, any IP law is a law that can be used to restrict what information is held on and communicated between computers is a restriction on free speech. Call me crazy, but governments shouldn't be adding more of those.

    I'm not sure if harassing certain people will have any effect on this struggle, but it might be worth a shot.
  • Re:Alternatives! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Eideewt ( 603267 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:16AM (#15588661)
    Just selling shit to us on the level is the alternative. People will still buy music. Do you know how I know that? Because they do it now, even though they don't have to.

    Nearly any song you might want is available on the Internet, for free. You might think that everyone would just go and download music for free when they want it (the RIAA seems to hold that opinion) like the amoral consumers they are. Well, obviously not. Many people buy music both from online stores and on CD, even though they don't have to. When I ask people why they do that, the answer I usually get is that they want to support the artists. So, if people buy music anyway, what exactly is the problem with selling it in a non-defective form? There's only one problem: when a person (not a *consumer*) can use the music they buy on all their devices, and don't have to re-buy with every format change (both of which I think we all agree should be legal), the music publishers lose the oppurtunity to milk fans for every cent they can. What a shame.
  • by yeremein ( 678037 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:22AM (#15588692)
    I blogged [blogspot.com] about why I won't purchase any "Plays for sure" music. The DRM is practically guaranteed to make your music collection disappear.

    Any system that restricts copying the music you paid for will eventually lock out the paying customer. I refuse to spend real money on a disappearing product.

  • by plasmacutter ( 901737 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:22AM (#15588693)
    Why in that order? Because the second will kill you whereas the first will - what? Make you a little bored? I wouldn't even go that far. There is far more to culture then what the major music and movie companies offer - and that's not going to change anytime soon.

    Why not? Because people _are_ free to participate in culture. If what exists sucks (or at least does in your opinion) you can go out and create your own works or, if your talents don't lay in that area, can support someone who does make something to your liking. Modern technology has even made this (arguably) easier to do nowadays then ever before.


    look.. participation does not mean simply "consumption".. it means remixing, sharing, communication, etc. DRM prevents that, so no, we _are not_ free to participate in culture.. thanks to DRM we are only free to _consume_ what they dispense.

    Further, youre right there is far more to culture than what the music and movie industries offer, just like there is far more to the world than what major industrialized nations have to offer, that doesnt change the fact that what these music and movie industries have to offer makes up the _majority_ of our culture and we deserve the right to participate in it rather than simply _consume_ it.

    Finally, we are not human if we do not participate in culture.. we are no better than the animals we claim differ from us..

    why not extend that argument from culture to food.. we can go much longer without food than we can air and water.. why not cut out food.

    would you tolerate it if the government mandated we eat nothing but kibble for food? dog food is more nutritious than our food but would you tolerate it?
  • by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:25AM (#15588697) Homepage

    Why should I have to sign up? Just post the damn numbers and then request I sign up,


    simple.

    Trolls. They are trying to limit the number of trolls. for every one moron spewing profanity and "1 0wn J00!" at them that destroys the credibility of 20 honest and professional calls.

    So limiting the idiots and morons that screw things up helps make the ration of intilligent to idiot much higher.

  • by 91degrees ( 207121 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:30AM (#15588731) Journal
    The way in which something is deffective is irrelevant - if I don't like a product, I don't have to buy it.

    True. However, usually they'd like to know why you're not buying a product. If you dislike McDonalds because they only serve fatty food, then they might consider some healthier options. But that will only happen if they know about it.
  • by Lurker187 ( 127055 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:35AM (#15588754)
    Why should I have to sign up? Just post the damn numbers and then request I sign up, and explain why it's important. I mean, I know that requiring registration is by no means the equal of DRM, but on some philosophical levels it does present it's ironies ..


    My guess is they want people to register for the same reason that internet petitions aren't worth crap -- anonymity is ultimately a form of obfuscation, and when you're trying to tell someone something they don't want to hear, they'll jump on any excuse to devalue the legitimacy of your position.

    But yes, it's a perfectly valid point, there is certainly some irony there.
  • Re:Freedom? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ettlz ( 639203 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:42AM (#15588781) Journal
    What about the freedom of citizens to not be spammed by (potentially abusive) phone calls?

    You're confusing a private citizen with their position as a leading figure in the RIAA. Yes, phoning them at home would be objectionable, but I don't see how ringing the office is an affront to freedom. They're not compelled to be in that job, and can always hang up.


    People really can't seem to be able to fight an intellectual battle in an honest and clean way.

    Well when the industry itself resorts to dirty tricks (e.g., Sony rootkit), what do you expect?

  • by dbmasters ( 796248 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:46AM (#15588793) Homepage
    The RIAA is just like labor unions, they were a decent idea, but they have gotten too big and too powerful and have grown themselves into a counterproductive entity that is hurting those that they profess to help and profit from them a great deal, which is also the exact reason they will never go away.
  • by broothal ( 186066 ) <christian@fabel.dk> on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:46AM (#15588794) Homepage Journal
    Everyone can vote with their dollars, but that doesn't tell the RIAA why they aren't getting the dollars.

    Yes it does. If you stop buying RIAA music because you are against DRM they will blame it on pirates and make even worse DRM initiatives. Either way - we lose.
  • IMHO. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DoctorDyna ( 828525 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:51AM (#15588817)
    The RIAA is a business. Their customers are record label execs. As has happened in the past, business are most hurt by robbing them of customers. People calling the RIAA isn't going to discourage anybody from conducting business, especially not record label execs.

    If you want to hurt them, we need to convince record labels that they don't need to employ what is basically a "task force posse" to protect their interests. Striking at the heart of the beast would be most productive. What we need to do as good, strong minded, mostly intelligent people is start some new record labels that are specifically designed with low profit margins and realistic salaries, and start campaigning to get major artists moved over to our labels that pass on more profit to them. We need to rob the RIAA supporting labels in the good old fasioned american way, which is build a better alternative.

  • by maillemaker ( 924053 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:53AM (#15588825)
    >Has any one else noticed that if we reduce ourselves to
    >voting with our dollars, then ordinary people get about 37,000 votes a year if
    >they are lucky, while Corporations and the super rich get millions or billions of votes?

    Ah, at last you see the light. This is precisely the way the world works.

    Steve
  • by professionalfurryele ( 877225 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:53AM (#15588828)
    I don't know what you mean by the government is the people. The government is China is very much not the people. The government in Iran as well.

    The government should be a manifestation of the peoples collective will to protect their rights, and ensure compliance with their responsibilities. The government is responsible for protecting peoples rights. When they fail it is the responsibility of the people to protect their rights by changing the government. Your government does not protect the rights of the people.

    "And really, I'm not sure I like a world were you have the "right" to content that I produce."

    So you believe that people do not have a right to the cultural heritage of humanity? Knowledge and information are not property. I would claim that considering them as such is an odd position to take. Here is the deal. You produce content, society agrees to give you certain, limited temporary rights as an incentive. Don't like it? Don't create. At least that used to be the deal.
  • by plasmacutter ( 901737 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @08:55AM (#15588833)
    They've only got the slings and arrows of the law -- we've got the b-52s of technological inevitability on our side...

    this is the problem though.. through the law they are steering the "inevitability" of technology away from consumer empowerment.

    DRM is a technology.. people often forget that when they talk about the inevitability of technological advancement... there is no guarantee any longer that that advancement will not lead to stronger shackles with which the general public will be chained.

    it is a double edged sword, and the law is far more powerful in sharpening an edge than competitive pressure is at sharpening the other.
  • by professionalfurryele ( 877225 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:06AM (#15588887)
    I think you missed the point. If we are going to rely solely on economics to prevent our rights being taken away, then those labels attached to the RIAA have far more clout than an individual American citizen. Given that those labels are not people, they should have zero say on rights issues. To suggest boycott is the solution is like suggesting not making tea is the solution to taxation without represntation. The solution is a change of government, to one which is concerned primarily with peoples rights. People have a right to acess the cultural heritage of humanity.
  • Caller ID logs? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Lost Penguin ( 636359 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:08AM (#15588896)
    The RIAA will simply forward the caller ID logs to the lawyers for future lawsuit prospects.
    If you call, you must be a pirate!
  • by kjart ( 941720 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:12AM (#15588915)

    Further, youre right there is far more to culture than what the music and movie industries offer, just like there is far more to the world than what major industrialized nations have to offer, that doesnt change the fact that what these music and movie industries have to offer makes up the _majority_ of our culture and we deserve the right to participate in it rather than simply _consume_ it.

    So you are suggesting that all cultural work should be free to everyone to do with as they wish? I respectfully disagree - I am quite content in a world in which the artist is able to choose what they do with their work (and going with a label that believes in DRM is a choice) - whether that be selling it, giving it away for free or doing nothing.

    If I sing a song or write a play or paint a picture and I don't share it with you, am I violating your rights? I find that notion absurd. Creators should have the right to do as they will with their creations.

    why not extend that argument from culture to food.. we can go much longer without food than we can air and water.. why not cut out food.

    Again, doing without culture is not literally going to kill you. Regardless, we aren't even talking about doing without culture - we are talking about not consuming specific pieces of culture or, in choosing to consume, not being able to do everything we'd care to do with them (at least legally).

    would you tolerate it if the government mandated we eat nothing but kibble for food? dog food is more nutritious than our food but would you tolerate it?

    No, but you are again comparing apples to oranges. See previous comment regarding people with guns vs buying a CD.

  • by plasmacutter ( 901737 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:12AM (#15588916)
    I couldn't agree more. Nobody is being forced to buy their stuff. Even if the big labels were the only outlet of music (and they're most certainly not) you _still_ wouldn't have to buy anything from them.

    If the only supplier of housing was a monopoly who imposed DRM and high prices on all housing, would you suggest they not buy housing too? granted we can survive without shelter too.. exposure to the elements does not necessarily equal death after all.

    of course.. you could live like an animal.. do nothing but eat, sleep, work, and crap.. without culture we are not human. I'm sorry but culture and cultural participation are essential to humanity, nearly as essential as food, we've had this argument before but since you've decided to post redundantly so have I, and damn the karma, i wont have this "just dont buy it" fallacy bandied about without rebuttal.

  • by thunderpaws ( 199100 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:15AM (#15588945)
    A telephone harrasment campaign will be viewed by executives as coming from a bunch of crack pots who want something for nothing. They can easily plug in the numbers into their arguments about piracy. The reality is they do have the right and responsibility to protect the products they represent. The problems exist because current copy right laws apparently do not adequately address digital content. The vacum that exists is allowing the RIAA to abuse consumers under the banner of anti-piracy. Whether or not we agree that Apple's 'FairPlay' is a good thing, it is an example of a very resonable implementation of DRM. What is really needed is educating the multitudes of consumers about the issues. All too often consumers just accept things as they exist. I wonder how many consumers have computers that are hobbled by Sony's rootkit fiasco without a clue. These are people who would blame 'pirates' and 'hackers' for problems they might experience with their computers rather than the true villans, because they just don't know.
  • Chicken Meet Egg (Score:3, Insightful)

    by delire ( 809063 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:16AM (#15588948)
    This action should attract the people who thought that Apple was not a good target because it is the RIAA that requires DRM..
    While Apple may not be the primary target, they most certainly shouldn't be delisted from those considered responsible; Apple is proving that DRM business is big business, and so indirectly affirming the RIAA's idiotic war. Despite the fact it is trivial to bypass the AAC copy restrictions/'lock-in', users are still disallowed the legitimate rights to use the stuff they bought the way they want to use it. Apple is making this work in their favour, not ours.

    Futhermore no one forced Apple to adopt support for DRM, and so we should be wary of the notion that Economic Rationalism somehow renders them inadvertent victims of these lobbyists and would-be legislators. Apple are actively supporting the reduction of use-rights and will no doubt continue to develop technologies to these ends.
  • by ajs ( 35943 ) <{ajs} {at} {ajs.com}> on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:17AM (#15588957) Homepage Journal
    Actually, if poor people stopped buying music, I think the music companies would be terribly, terribly screwed.

    Purchasing power is not always proportional to purchasing, especially with respect to entertainment.
  • they won't care (Score:3, Insightful)

    by livingdeadline ( 884462 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:19AM (#15588963) Homepage
    The music industry won't care about some users protesting about DRM, since their only goal is to turn the whole market into a standardless pay per view system, and they will succeed sooner or later when people get used to the idea of using only specific software and hardware for managing music. With comments like these [arstechnica.com] (original story in finnish mirrored here [homeunix.org]), it's pretty clear that not only the 'merican music industry seriously wants to assure those responsible for various judicial systems that increasing incompability is the only way to go in the digital age.
  • by plasmacutter ( 901737 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:19AM (#15588965)
    I am quite content in a world in which the artist is able to choose what they do with their work (and going with a label that believes in DRM is a choice)

    I agree fully.. they should be able to do what they choose with their work, but consumers and electronics firms should have full right to do what they choose with DRM'ed formats.. including circumvention.

    Further, consumers should have a right to do what they want with their bought items after artists have sold them, including stripping DRM.

    I see nothing wrong with what you said.. I see everything wrong with the DMCA interrupting the free market's ability to correct abuses.

    No, but you are again comparing apples to oranges.
    no, it's not comparing apples to oranges. there are laws mandating that the free market cannot correct for DRM by building DRM free players capable of playing DRMed product.. granted it's not expressly put that way, but that is the end result.
    If the government were to do this indirectly it would amount to the same thing.

    Granted not having culture will not "kill" you.. but i've spent time doing nothing but eat, sleep, work, and crap.. i have had very demanding times in my life.. and i will tell you i've felt the difference.. your mind becomes numb and you lose pieces of yourself. it is definitely not healthy.

  • by migloo ( 671559 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:21AM (#15588975)
    You don't see me protesting McDonalds because the Big Mac is a piece of crap - I take my business elsewhere.

    Fallacious comparison:

    If McDo had a DRM, your only choice would be either junk food or starve.

  • by Kev_Stewart ( 737140 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:25AM (#15588994)
    We all think that when music is bought it should STAY bought.

    The RIAA thinks exactly the same thing...

    ...about their politicians.

  • by parcel ( 145162 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:27AM (#15589003)
    It wouldn't be a problem if the legislation bought on the way to their death would go away with them.
  • by user no. 590291 ( 590291 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:33AM (#15589021)
    While it's obvious you're attempting sarcasm here, it is the sheep that willingly follow who bear the ultimate responsibility for the erosion of all kinds of freedoms--the people who willing submit to searches when leaving retail stores, the lambs who show ID without question to anyone, and, yes, the people who rent (not purchase--purchasing a digital restrictions-encumbered product is impossible by definition) DRM products because it's "fast, convenient, and cheap."
  • by Hrodvitnir ( 101283 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:41AM (#15589065)
    If I didn't have a credit card, I would have no option but to pirate.

    Or, simply not derive pleasure from someone's work without due compensation. Unless you think it's your 'right' to listen to good music. Something tells me those with the money, but not the card, to purchase the music aren't sending checks to the artist after they pirate their music.
  • by VoxCombo ( 782935 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:51AM (#15589112)
    Our free market takes care of this. If "the only supplier of housing" became a bad deal for consumers, then the market would eventually even that out. It's the beauty of capitalism.

    Nobody has a monopoly on housing, and nobody has a monopoly on music. Go forth and buy your house from whomever you want, and buy your music from the thousands of labels and artists who do not use DRM.
  • by lcde ( 575627 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @09:56AM (#15589145) Homepage
    It seems to me that the poor secretary will be the one having to handle these 1000 calls.

    Wouldn't it be much better to write a letter, put it in a manila envelope and send it directly to the RIAA exec. The key is to pay the extra dollar or so and get the Signature Confirmation [usps.com] service that the USPS offers. I think when an executive gets 1000 letters on his/her desk that ALL need signatures you tend to notice.
  • by arrgster ( 951348 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @10:02AM (#15589177)
    that support DRM in that list as well. Politicians react to pressure a lot faster than big wigs in a company.
  • by mike_the_kid ( 58164 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @10:03AM (#15589183) Journal
    Makes you wonder how mankind existed before the the invention of the phonograph.

    Just a quick note. You say that cultural participation is so important. If your idea of participation is buying music, you might be selling yourself short.
  • by Asphalt ( 529464 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @10:07AM (#15589200)
    Something tells me those with the money, but not the card, to purchase the music aren't sending checks to the artist after they pirate their music.

    Actually, you just roughly described the business model of a record label.

  • by vertinox ( 846076 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @10:14AM (#15589240)
    These don't look like RIAA executive numbers to me...these look like the numbers of elected officials in washington?

    Oh... Our bad. We thought you were looking for RIAA Executive lackies? Not the Exceutives themselves.
  • by dpilot ( 134227 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @10:22AM (#15589290) Homepage Journal
    It's not the music or the DRM, it's the legislation!

    I can not-buy-music, too. In fact, I generally do - I buy very little music, largely because of this set of issues. There's also a pragmatic/economic issue lumped in with it. If CD prices were halved, I'd likely buy more than twice as many. If they were cut in thirds, I'd likely buy more than 3 times as many. But as the price declined further, taste and storage would become the limiting factors, so from their perspective, it wouldn't make sense to lower my price to that point. All of this for something that costs $0.10 to duplicate, about as much to package, and has a list price in the $18 range. There's enormous room to play with the supply/demand curve, and they're not doing it. They just pout and cry about piracy.

    That's where the real damage is - their pouting and crying is to legislators, expressed along with $$$. They're striving to preserve their current business and pricing models through legislation. Aside from subverting the free market, there's a complete ignorance of and disregard for consequences of this legislation.

    Imagine if McDonalds had similar clout at the FDA. Simply voting with your feet wouldn't be sufficient.
  • by Ryan Amos ( 16972 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @10:22AM (#15589293)
    Oh come on. Your name, address and telephone number are not private information. In fact, rumor has it that there is a book somewhere that has the name, address and number of every person in the entire city. Imagine if someone with nefarious purposes were to get ahold of that -- we would all be in trouble!
  • by SCHecklerX ( 229973 ) <greg@gksnetworks.com> on Friday June 23, 2006 @10:45AM (#15589435) Homepage
    Or, simply not derive pleasure from someone's work without due compensation.

    That is what live shows are for. CDs should not be the big moneymaker. Charge for them what it costs to make them, maybe a little more. Sell them for $5 a piece at a cd release party show. Etc.

    I don't see any local bands freaking out because people enjoy their music and share it. They love it, b/c it gets people to their shows, and lets those people enjoy their art.

    If you suck, you have no right for huge profit simply because you might have gotten just one good song on your CD of 15-20. That same song already having been played to death on the radio so that you don't want to listen to it anyway.

    The CD should be the promotion of your work. You think the RIAA compensates their indentured servants...er...artists properly with CD sales?

  • by ajs318 ( 655362 ) <sd_resp2@@@earthshod...co...uk> on Friday June 23, 2006 @10:57AM (#15589514)
    Actually, they do have a monopoly on popular music, since with any kind of art there is, by definition, no objective criterion for evaluation.

    Industrial components are standardised. If I buy an M6 nut from one supplier, I can be sure that it will screw onto an M6 bolt from any other supplier. If I buy a length of 15mm. copper piping, I can similarly be sure it will fit any 15mm. compression or soldered elbow, tee, reducer or valve. If I need a 10K ohm resistor, or a diode which will handle 6 amperes with a maximum reverse voltage of 400V, I can buy ones which perform identically from any of several suppliers.

    If, however, I want to listen to the song "Whenever, Wherever", I can only find this song sung by Shakira, and only on Epic Records -- a label owned by Sony Music. Everytime someone spends several pounds on a copy of the CD, Shakira herself -- the one truly indispensable person in the equation -- receives a few pence out of this money. Logically, anyone should be allowed to make their own copy and send Shakira the same sum of money as she would have received had they bought one from Sony. Yet, for some reason, this is not allowed. If this were allowed, then there would not be a monopoly situation, since various entities would be competing to supply the same music as though it were a standard industrial part, and the market would decide matters for itself.

    {Note 1: anyone is free to make recordings of classical music which has entered the public domain.}

    {Note 2: in some European countries, you used to be able to buy cheap and cheerful LPs and cassettes -- CDs weren't invented then -- containing poor-to-terrible cover versions of popular British and American chart hits. I suspect this is no longer the case. Any Continentals care to comment?}
  • by SoulRider ( 148285 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @11:15AM (#15589635)
    Futhermore no one forced Apple to adopt support for DRM

    Your wrong, the RIAA told Apple that they must support DRM or they couldnt sell their music. Since Apple cannot legally promote and distribute their own bands (through agreements with Apple Music Inc) their choices became support DRM or give up on iTunes. The decision to allow conversion to non-DRM'd formats (the RIAA is still pissed about this) was made for their customers while still pacifying the RIAA so they could implement iTunes in a timely manner. I can play the DRM'd music I download off of iTunes on my iPod (the real reason iTunes exists), and I can rip my own cds to my iPod using Apples DRM format, what exactly is Apples economic gain by allowing users to convert files to non DRM'd formats? Yet it still costs them real money to support this feature.
  • by DoctorDyna ( 828525 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @12:12PM (#15590034)
    You (as well as others) still seem to be confusing "fair use" with "theft". Stop that. That is the single most annoying thing that people keep doing, that in fact is the root cause of all these problems with DRM incumberment. You and your thinking, and people that think like you are the reason that no matter how much I pay for a cd, I still don't own it. Fuck you. When I buy something, I would like to be able to use it however I want. If that includes copying it to my hard drive and archiving the disc in case anything ever happens to my drive, then that should be my right.

    I think the theft argument is tired. People have been using it for decades now, and when it comes to media usage, it really, honestly doesn't apply. If I buy a car from a car dealership, and then turn it around and give it away to a friend, does the car company sue me? But! they didn't get a profit from my giving that car away! Perhaps, they should sue me! I know, your saying to yourself right now "but that's not the same because if you give the car away you don't have it anymore for yourself." Exactly. We've been applying the term "theft" to something that can't be stolen. Sure, it can be traded. It can be given to sombody without charging them. You might eeevvvven be able to stretch it into "unfair trading", but to call it theft is lunacy. It's a word thats applied simply to generate sensationalism. "But! They're stealing my music!" sounds alot more we-need-protection-ish than "But! They're trading my music!"

    Right now, in the US, there are alot of states that make it legal to shoot sombody who comes into your house who you beleive might be there to steal something.

    Now, imagine for a second, if trading a couple of music files could really be bundled into "theft", then, should it be legal for a performer to open fire on sombody in the crowd he sees with a microphone? How about bursting into your house and shooting you dead?

    You are absolutely right my friend, the problem does look alot different in their shoes. It looks alot like this: How, oh how do we convince the legislature and governing bodies that something that is less of a crime than "copyright infringment without monetary gain" can be publicised, and then treated as if its grand larceny?

  • by Beryllium Sphere(tm) ( 193358 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @12:27PM (#15590177) Journal
    >Also, the free speech mention is weak at best. Please clarfiy how it is a free speech issue if I use a CD precisely how I want to.

    To use a CD precisely the way you want it, you may need to hold down the shift key when you load it into your computer. The person who spoke freely about that received legal threats.

    To use a DVD precisely how you want to, for example putting it on a hard disk for easier access or for legally authorized backups, you need a magic 40-bit number. Someone who merely *linked* to a site with that number got slapped with an injunction requiring them to stop speaking (this happened under your southern neighbor's "DMCA" law).

    DRM can't be enforced if there is free speech, because free speech could be used for sharing workarounds.

    DRM can be used directly to inhibit spreading information for political debate. If the Pentagon had put DRM on their history of the Vietnam War, Daniel Ellsberg couldn't have leaked it.
  • by Yez70 ( 924200 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @12:28PM (#15590182)
    Not buying their stuff IS NOT the solution. That is doing nothing. If it was a solution, we would have had an effect long ago. There are BILLIONS of consumers on this planet - how many know what DRM is and what it does?

    99.9% of consumers have no idea or care less about DRM and what it does. This is the exact opposite of the feelings of those who do care. They do not yet realize the implications or the restrictions. They buy a CD and listen to it on their CD player. Their DVDs work in their DVD player. They buy an MP3 and listen to it on their iPod. End of story.

    In a few years they may realize that MP3 isn't going to be playable on their new fancy phone with a zillion features and won't transfer to their new googlePod (gPod) or their new PC or laptop. The new HD/Blu-Ray player won't even play CDs and it's possible some DVDs or HD-DVDs may not work if they've already been used in another piece of equipment. Their Windows Media Center Vista2 won't play it either, due to it's DRM. You won't be able to rent video games anymore at blockbuster, because games will be locked to a single game console.

    But by then the RIAA/MPAA or whatnot has their money and they've legislated their DRM to be a part of life and law.... Is this what you want? Go ahead, don't buy their stuff - let everyone else suffer.

    If something is not done now, by those who do understand the implications, nothing will ever be done.

    Having the attitude that nobody is forcing them to buy their stuff is asinine. You have to stand up and make yourself HEARD!

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
  • Re:Good Idea (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Yez70 ( 924200 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @12:33PM (#15590247)
    It would be interseting to a torrent site start listing where to mail compensation directly to the artist/creator, maybe include a public rating system where the users determine what they consider is a fair value too.

    Add in an anonymous way to pay, to protect them from the **AA's attorneys/spies, and someone will notice...

    Imagine if AllofMP3.com started mailing checks directly to the artists, bypassing the labels. I bet the checks would still get cashed, with a big smile on their faces too. :D
  • by shark72 ( 702619 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @01:36PM (#15590846)

    "The above situations would remove a tangible product from circulation thus preventing someone who wanted to pay for it from doing so and removing real property from a place of business. Downloading a file that you could not purchase even if you wanted to does no such thing."

    Good point, but the fallacy of "I don't have the money to buy it" becomes really easy to rationalize. I'd wager that 9 times out of 10, the person given the "download the track for a buck or get it on P2P for free" does have the money to buy it (after all, they are likely paying for their broadband connection, and rent or mortgage on house that contains the PC with the broadband connection). If somebody really does not have one dollar to spare, they likely have much more grave issues to worry about than whether or not to get that new Gnarls Barkley single. Humans have a great ability to rationalize and fool themselves (for some reasons, it must have helped us along evolutionarily) and the 10th or 100th or 1000th time you happily think to yourself "it's OK, I don't have the money to buy it" it becomes meaningless.

    Similarly, "I wouldn't have bought it anyway" is a tautology. Again, 9 times out of 10, pirate "wouldn't have bought it" because it's readily available for free.

  • by shark72 ( 702619 ) on Friday June 23, 2006 @01:53PM (#15590988)

    "Logically, anyone should be allowed to make their own copy and send Shakira the same sum of money as she would have received had they bought one from Sony. Yet, for some reason, this is not allowed."

    The reason is, of course, that it's Sony who funded the production, marketing, and distribution of the CD. In turn for investing a significant amount of money, their contract with Shakira states that they are the exclusive distributors of the recording. If Sony doesn't turn a profit, they're out of business. Maybe I misunderstood you -- when you wrote "for some reason" did you mean that you actually didn't understand the reason?

    "If this were allowed, then there would not be a monopoly situation, since various entities would be competing to supply the same music as though it were a standard industrial part, and the market would decide matters for itself."

    It is a monopoly in the sense that copyright provides a limited monopoly, but it is not a monopoly in the sense that the word is typically used. The danger of describing the record industry as a "monopoly" in these terms makes it meaningless, as many, many industries -- pretty much any industry that develops branded products or engages in exclusive contracts -- would also fall under this definition.

    Calling the record industry a monopoly may be good for the soul, and if it makes people feel better about using P2P so they can be a "monopoly buster," then it's all good. But be careful about using the m-word around an economist or similar expert. It's a bit like creationists who deliberately misuse the word "theory" (as in evolutionary theory) to make their point. It might sound convincing, and it satisfies the people who want to believe, but it's still hogwash.

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

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