Has My Cell Number Been Cloned? 561
2bepissedoff asks: "According to my T-mobile phone bill, I have been receiving incoming calls from a 'NBR unavailable', since February, with talk time ranging from 1 minute to an hour. The strangest thing is, I have never received these calls (my phone doesn't ring and I haven't talked to the caller). I only started noticing them when my phone bill was charged over $40 more than my regular bill. Of course, I have a family plan (2 people only, 2 lines) and I talked to my partner. The answer: he too had not received any of these calls, especially over 300 minutes per month of them. We called up T-mobile twice and claim the possibility of phone cloning. Both representatives hung up on me, thinking I was trying to con them or something. Any advice to what this could be?"
I did a little investigation and I've noticed that some of the NBR minutes overlap with calls I actually make. For example:
'2/22 at 3:28 pm "NBR unavailable" 17mins usage.
2/22 at 3:44 pm "-(# I made)---" 3mins usage.
So if you add up the time 3:28pm + 17 mins = 3:45 pm. The time when I made my call was at 3:44 pm. This reoccurs several times. I still do not think this is enough evidence to convince T-mobile of Phone Cloning. So I am thinking of switching either my number or my service provider. "
'2/22 at 3:28 pm "NBR unavailable" 17mins usage.
2/22 at 3:44 pm "-(# I made)---" 3mins usage.
So if you add up the time 3:28pm + 17 mins = 3:45 pm. The time when I made my call was at 3:44 pm. This reoccurs several times. I still do not think this is enough evidence to convince T-mobile of Phone Cloning. So I am thinking of switching either my number or my service provider. "
The question is... (Score:5, Insightful)
You ask the question, "Has my cell number been cloned?" I ask the more pressing question... "Has your brain turned to mush?" DUH, if you're getting calls that you're not getting, then there's a problem.
You say "Both representatives hung up on me, thinking I was trying to con them or something." I say, you need to adjust your message to give them the facts -- customer support reps are only human. If you ramble on with your life story, or rant and rave, or interject useless details, then you might get hung up on. But T-Mobile gave me good service when I had them (I only dropped them because they didn't have good service in the middle of nowhere, where I live). If you call and say "Here are the calls that I neither made nor received. Please remove them from my bill and block me from ever recieving calls from the associated numbers." I can't imagine they'd refuse.
There's also the distinct possibility that the owner of the second line isn't being straight with you. I'm reminded of a poem I read on the bus [dart.org]:
By the time you swear you're his,
Shivering and sighing,
And he vows his passion is
Infinite, undying -
Lady, make a note of this:
One of you is lying.
-Dorothy Parker, Unfortunate Coincidence
Re:My "partner"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Come out of the closet, self hating fag (Score:2, Insightful)
While we're throwing labels around (Score:3, Insightful)
You're a self-righteous tosser. He's not talking about 'getting what he wants', he's talking about not being conned out of his money by Verizon. And what does "hurting people" have to do with anything, apart from making him sound worse in comparison to you?
or.... (Score:5, Insightful)
(Just saying. It happens all the time.)
Okay.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Next, either go to a B&M location and bitch to someone in person, have bills in hand, or send a letter/e-mail to customer service. The letter and/or e-mail are ignorable, but at least someone should attempt to read it. IF you actually show up at a location you are pretty much non-ignorable. Be sure to express anger, but do not do anything too stupid. IF worse comes to worse, threaten legal action against the location, the employees and T-mobile (always casts wide nets, threatening individuals works because they don't want to lose their money...loyalty to their business is probably minimal.
So make sure to verify that neither you nor your partner received the calls...then go make a stink in person.
Re:I am a fag, fag. (Score:1, Insightful)
Because he lives in a repressed society that doesn't allow him to call his partner his husband?
It is quite appropriate that some people claim their morals come from words engraved in stone.
Kinda like their stone age thinking...
Re:Partner? (Score:3, Insightful)
We can not bother because it's irrelevant to the question. Ask Slashdot isn't really a forum on sexual choices.
Re:Do Not Put Up With That (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's some advice: Don't take that shit.
That's the best advice you'll get. You pay them to provide you with mobile phone service and in return they promise to provide that service. The onus is on them; if someone is illegally using your phone number and wracking up hundreds or thousands of dollars in calls you did not make, they have a vested interest in determining if this is true and putting a stop to it. The easiest way for them to do that is freeze yor account and issue you a new phone number. I have T-Mobile and managed to lose my phone in France; I called them immediately and they were able to freeze my account that instant, preventing anyone from making calls and I was able to get a replacement as soon as I got back.
Try calling again -- keep calling until you get someone to listen. Try to cut right to the heart of the matter -- tell them you think someone is making calls using your number. A CSR should be able to pull up your current calling records and verify what you're terlling them easily enough.
As an aside, why is it possible for calls from the same number to be going on simultaneously? Wouldn't there be something to prevent that, unless you were using a three-way calling option?
Re:Call Waiting (Score:2, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why make things difficult? (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, aren't bills with multiple numbers broken down by call to/from each phone? Mine is, I believe.
Re:It's probably the NSA (Score:2, Insightful)
Uh dude, I think you mean the evening news.
Assume they are listening to your calls. This administration has a record of serial lying; they admit what they're caught at red-handed and say, "well, okay, we do A, but we would never do B, and the implication that we would is insulting and gives comfort to the enemy."
Then a few months later we find out that at the time of the denial, they were doing A, B, C, and D (torture, kidnapping and illegal rendition to torture countries, domestic spying on Americans, leaking identities of CIA agents, other petty acts of revenge on perceived enemies, etc.).
Don't reference fiction, man, the reality is more disturbing.
Be less "helpful" (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that you're trying to supply a conclusive diagnosis to the T-mobile rep when you actually ahve no freakin' idea why those charges are appearing. Quit trying to offer them an explanation up front. That sounds like a con. Just give them the symptoms-- i.e. calls/charges on the bill that aren't yours-- and let them figure out what's happening.
Re:You get charged for receiving calls? - Cheaper! (Score:4, Insightful)
In the UK (and most other countries), the landline-to-mobile rate is fixed at a high price. The mobile companies have no strong incentive to lower their termination fees, because they're not charging "their" customers - it's the other schmucks (landline customers) who get the shaft (customers they want to steal away from landline!). Of course there could be some limited competition on the landline side to get the "lowest" mobile termination fees, but in the end the landline carriers still have to negotiate that with the mobile provider. How much would 1000 minutes cost from landline to mobile in the UK? £36.10 - £215.40, depending on the carrier and time-of-day? [bt.com]
In the North American system, the entire minute bucket of incoming and outgoing minutes is negotiated between the mobile provider and their direct customer. Therefore, there is significant competition between carriers to provide the lowest total price. In other words, when you select a carrier here, you are negotiating the price on both sides. Over there, you are only negotiating the outgoing side of the equation (for the most part). How much would 1000 minutes (either direction) cost in the US? $40 (or free on nights/weekends)? [t-mobile.com]
In the future, it seems like unlimited wireless is a distinct possibility (it already exists in my market!). In North America, that means that there will be no mobile-related charges whatsoever for incoming or outgoing. Do you think that foreign carriers will let go of mobile termination fees even if/when outgoing calls become free (unlimited)? In my case, I could pay $70/month and nobody would pay any per-minute fees to or from my phone!
Re:Seems Wrong.. Cell phones work in airplanes... (Score:4, Insightful)
What? What about when you are on the ground and happen to be standing in between 3 different towers, an equal distance from each? Wouldn't that be the same kind of situation you are talking about in an air plane?
Because all the cells need to negotiate with each other to ensure that your phone is only logged in to one cell at a time? And if you're on a plane, not only can your mobile see a lot of cells (meaning that negotiation is expensive), but because you're moving fast, the system has to renegotiate very frequently as you move from cell to cell?
Re:Why make things difficult? (Score:3, Insightful)
Then, and only then, start discussing the reason that you called. It also helps to use their name while you're talking to them, to remind them that you really did keep track of the name.
I find that this makes more difference in how good the customer service is than any other tactic you can try. Yes, a rep can give you a bogus name, but I haven't had a single one give me attitude or hang up on me since I started doing this. I also try to not be too much of an asshole; I tend to say things like "I know that it isn't your fault that I'm having this problem, but it is really pissing me off, and I want it fixed."
As per the original post, I've found T-Mobile to give superb customer service, but I've been with them since forever, so they probably like me.
--- SER
Re:You get charged for receiving calls? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why do you have to pay extra for calling someone on their mobile phone instead of on their land line? Seems a bit of a rip off to me.
Re:switching the number won't work (Score:5, Insightful)
No, GSM can handle this quite well. In towns with a high base station density, it is also possible that multiple cells are visible.
Re:My "partner"? (Score:2, Insightful)
I have a partner as well. We are of opposite sex, so your jealous, vindictive, increasingly irrelevant $(GOD) should not be offended (perish the thought).
People often mistake us for being married (must be something to do with how we interact). We are, however, not married. We can't go around calling each other husband and wife, because that would be misleading, since we're not married. Hence, we refer to each other as, "partners."
In other words, the term "partner" is not exlcusively used to refer to same-sex relationships. In fact, from the context of the article, "partner" could even refer to a business relationship, rather than a personal one.
Like most religious/Republican extremists, you are likely incapable of apology, regardless of how strongly it is merited. Absent such, self-immolation will do nicely. *plonk*
Schwab
Re:Seems Wrong.. Cell phones work in airplanes... (Score:4, Insightful)
I told you, I worked for LogicaCMG, we provide manufacture Mobile Network equipment (Logica Mobile Networks). If you dont know who LogicaCMG is and the size of its involvement in Telecoms, well back in 2003, 75% of the worlds SMS all went through LogicaCMG Software. So now you know my experience, and expertise, let me continue.
WHen a plane that is so high up crosses a densely populated city with a high cell density A cellphone will attempt to log onto many of those cells at the same time. Both the phone and the cells on the network will see almost equal "signal strengths" (distance between plane and ground is greater than distqance between cells, litttle bit of elementary geometry required here.. sorry I dont have a picture decribing the phemonenom). As such the netowrk does some form of conflict resolution which is communication and processor intensive.
s the plane is flying at a high speed, its possibel the phone is connecting on and off to many cells in a short time (signals are weaker too), this causes a lot of strain on the network, sometimes causing it to go down temporarily as its automatically restarted.
Multiply this by 100 or more phones on a single plane, and you can see how much of a strain this can be on the network.
A network glitch like this looks bad to the operator, as customers on the ground are cut off their calls for a few seconds (there are some SLAs that operators have to publish here in regards to call disconnections)
Our reasearch was actually contracted by Orange, and O2 in 1997 to helpfind ways to improve the ability to deal with mobiles on planes affecting cells on the ground.
We have tested this phenomenon in our test labs many times to try and improve the systems.
Together with better switching algoritms on the cells, and also the use of PICO trancievers located on the plane itself, we believe we have found some solutions for operators.
But it is TRUE that the mobile networks were imforming the FAA and other airline bodies about this problem. Face it, they woudl me most happy for the extra income created when thier phones are used in the air, but currently their systems can break when they are.
Before anyone informs me that cells were being used in one of the 9/11 planes. The plane was flying low over an area with much lower cell density.
Re:Sad, but true (Score:3, Insightful)
Problem is, the bad customer service epidemic is now conditioning people to pull the "jerk" card before they really need to.
For example, my company prides itself in customer service, to the extent that we have never not replaced a broken product, even when well outside of our posted warranty period. Nonetheless, we get daily calls where people begin rudely insisting that they're going to get what they want... and before our reps have a chance to tell them that they will. I honestly don't blame the customers... it's just a sad statement about our service culture.
Re:switching the number won't work (Score:5, Insightful)
To be honest, it looks like his partner probably had another "partner".. who called that line "number witheld", and was just fobbing him off, sayign that his phone may be cloned. That seems the most likely situation.
(the fact the calls were INCOMMING, and the number was unavailable are the biggest clues)
Re:I Had a Similar Problem (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Unknown calls are bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this T-Mobile UK or USA? (Score:2, Insightful)
No, Technology isn't magic. (Score:2, Insightful)
First - there are legal barriers that allow you to strip a call of identifying headers. You can press a phone code to turn off your call id, and number forwarding, so that the recieving party cannot trace you. (in the u.s.) This was done so that victims of abuse could call home without fear of being traced. The phone company dosen't get that number either.
Second - as any technologist could tell you, just because a system "should" work a certain way, dosen't mean that the programer who implemented it didn't hack together a fix overnight which worked, so it became a permanent part of the system.
Third and Finally - Even though TV tells you that cell phone triangulation is a common practice, it's not. Triangulating on a cell phone call requires police, on foot, with three antennas, to find the right signal and take a measurement, from there they sit down with a map and work it out. This isn't built into the phone system, and its certainly not automatic. One reason for this is that one of the better ways to triangulate a signal is to measure the signal strength - if cell phone providers measured signal strength at all their towers consumer groups could gain access to those records durring the disclosure period of a civil suit to prove that large regions of their networks do not work sufficently.
Remember, Technology /= Magic.
-GiH
Re:Sad, but true (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No, Technology isn't magic. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I've had this problem also.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Seems Wrong.. Cell phones work in airplanes... (Score:4, Insightful)
It is both. Airline operators prohibit operating radio transmitting equipment on board an airplane in flight (FAA requires that any equipment that is going to be used be tested for safe operation on commercial flights), but even private pilots aren't allowed to use cell phones in the air due to FCC regulations.
Adjacent cell towers coordinate frequencies in use, and do handoffs to the next cell as you move from one to the other. In an airplane, you are "adjacent" to many towers at once, even those that are so far apart that they can't coordinate and hand off. Even though YOUR call may end up working, you're probably disconnecting other calls over a wide area as you step on their frequency (and since you're about 5 miles away from the cell you're actually talking to that's directly below you, your signal is still about 50% as strong over a 5 mile radius around that tower).
Re:You get charged for receiving calls? (Score:3, Insightful)
you are the person who decided the matter was important enough not to wait until the person was back in touch with a landline, the callee on the other hand has little choice but to pick up if its someone they even vaugely recognise (or no caller id). so you should bear the cost of using mobile communication.