The First Blu-ray Burner, Pioneer's BDR-101A 181
mikemuch writes "ExtremeTech has a review of Pioneer's BDR-101A-- the first Blu-ray burner available. The drive can do anything with CDs, is kind of slow with DVDs, and doesn't support double-density Blu-ray media, but hey, it's a start, and can burn 25GB in 42 minutes. Check out its burn speed benchmark performance at the link above."
Learn to read! (Score:5, Informative)
should read:
The drive can't do anything with CDs
Re:Learn to read! (Score:2)
Fatal Error (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Fatal Error (Score:5, Funny)
Huh huh, hu huh, huh huh (Score:2)
Wanna stroke my beard?
Wow (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Wow (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wow (Score:2)
The printer friendly version doesn't have pictures and leaves out the most relevant piece of information
Re:Wow (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wow (Score:2)
On the other hand, retrieving the data should be pretty fast when comparing to other medias that can handle that much data.
Re:Wow (Score:2)
Re:Wow (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wow (Score:2)
Re:Wow (Score:3, Informative)
Which I've always thought was odd since:
* 44,100 samples per second per channel
* 2 bytes per sample (16bit audio)
* 2 channels
44,100 (samps/sec) x 2 (bytes per samp) x 2 (channels) = 176,400 bytes per second or about 172kb/s in the old meaning of kb/s.
Yes, you get more "effective" data rate from CD-DA (Score:3, Informative)
You can still use these extra bytes for extra capacity if you use Mode 2 (VCDs use this), at the cost of ECC.
In either case, the CD (assuming 1x read) still rotates at exactly the same speed, whether it is a CD-DA, CD-ROM Mode 1 or CD-ROM Mode 2 disc.
Re:Wow (Score:2)
Okay. So that must mean that the error correction codes are all taken care of within the CD drive and they do not traverse the bus?
Re:Wow (Score:2)
I wonder if they've fixed that yet?
Re:Wow (Score:3, Informative)
- Don't buy the Blu-Ray burner. Save $1000
- Use the $1000 to buy 10x 250GB external HDs. This is equivalent to 40x Blu-Ray disks
If you expect to burn more that 40 Blu-Ray disks AND expect the price per GB of Blu-Ray media to go below that for HDs (keep in mind that the price per-GB of HD media is going down fast), then go ahead and get the burner.
By the way: Reading and writting data to an from and external HD, even via USB is actually much faster than to and from a Blu-Ray disk. Still, if th
Re:Wow (Score:3, Interesting)
While I do agree that it makes sense to have some "near line" backup solution, it is by no means a replacement for tapes and CD/DVD/Blu-Ray. Remember this is first gen, heck it is first. DVD burners cost $2,000 when they were released. Having said that, it would be very nice to backup all my pictures to one of these babies as opposed to the current 3 DVD's it takes now.
Now having said that, I also agree that for me it isn't wor
Re:Wow (Score:2)
Re:Wow (Score:2)
Re:Wow (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wow (Score:2)
Re:Wow (Score:2)
Yeah, but, 25GB. That's about equivalent to a 60x CD-R drive in terms of throughput.
Heck, I remember the days when it took over half an hour to burn a single 650MB CD-R. I'm not about to complain about 25 in 42.
Why burn just 1? (Score:5, Interesting)
...when you can set up your own distribution center: Engadget has a peek at Primera's mass Blu-ray duplication system [engadget.com]
Primera has started shipping the world's first Blu-ray disc duplication system, the Bravo XR-Blu Disc Publisher, able to burn up to 50 discs in one session. The core of the unit is actually Pioneer's recently announced BDR-101A Blu-ray burner, but it's backed up by some sweet built-in robotics to keep the discs moving (we hope -- we've heard this things are a little buggy) and full-color direct-to-disc inkjet printing to ensure a professional-looking job. This being the first unit of its kind, however, it should come as no surprise that it only uses single-layer discs, able to store a measly 25 GB, but Primera says an upgrade will be available "shortly" to allow for dual-layer burning. And if you thought regular, single-disc Blu-ray burners were expensive, you better look away now, 'cause this beast will set you back a whopping $5295.
Sounds like we'll be seeing surprisingly cheap Blu-ray movies on Ebay any day now.
Re:Why burn just 1? (Score:2)
70 hours if it's dual layer.
Don't you remember how long it took for DVD-Rs to come down in price? We aren't going to see cheap BDVD-R movies on ebay for years.
Re:Why burn just 1? (Score:2)
Re:Why burn just 1? (Score:2)
Re:Why burn just 1? (Score:2)
Re:Why burn just 1? (Score:5, Informative)
Hey, I remember when blank CR-Rs were in the $10-20/disc range. RAM cost $50-$100/megabyte (not gigabyte). And DVD burners were still on the horizon at $15,000 each. And we likedit. (Hell no we didn't!)
Re:Why burn just 1? (Score:2)
Concurrency (Score:4, Interesting)
Is it just me, or were there a LOT more DVD players and DVD media in enduser hands, before the announcement of DVD burners?
It's almost like they (yes, the perjorative and mysterious 'they') want to have it both ways.. sell the stamped media, the blank media, and the hardware all at once - yet you *know*, from recent demonstrations, that they are geared up to protect any potential infringement of copyrights.
Or is this just how things work, these days?
Correction on CD disk capability (Score:5, Informative)
Anyway, the Blu-Ray disks are $19-29 USD. I will need to wait until I can buy a spindle of 100 Blu-Ray disks for 9.99 before I go out and buy one of these things.
"CD disk" Capability? (Score:3, Funny)
This Public Service Announcement has been brought to you by the Redundancy Department of Reduncancy.
Re:Correction on CD disk capability (Score:2)
Ummmm 25GB per disk, that is 2,500 GB or 2.5 TERRABYTES of storage for $10 dollars, which gives a price per Megabyte of 0.0004c. Current CompUSA own brand [compusa.com] is $24.99 for a $100 spindle CR-R (700Mb) which is 0.0357c, so you are asking for something almost ONE THOUSAND TIMES cheaper.
Muppet.
Re:Correction on CD disk capability (Score:2)
It's not fair to compare CDRs to Blu-Ray DVDs.. Comparing to DVD-Rs is much more realistic. Blank DVDs are 4.7GB, and they cost $22.99 for 100 on newegg, or 4.89c per GB. Blu-Ray costs $20 per 25GB disk, or 8c per G
Re:Correction on CD disk capability (Score:3, Insightful)
Just give it time
Re:Correction on CD disk capability (Score:2)
Re:Correction on CD disk capability (Score:2)
Can't read CD media? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can't read CD media? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Can't read CD media? (Score:2)
Most likely, they assume that people buying this will either already have a cdrom drive or have an extra slot for one. It's nice to have them in one drive, but then again, plenty of drives are still sold that can't burn cds.
Re:Can't read CD media? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can't read CD media? (Score:2)
What I found more interesting was that they left DVD-RAM off the compatibility list.
Why no love for DVD-RAM?
Re:Can't read CD media? (Score:3, Interesting)
Licensing fees.
Re:Can't read CD media? (Score:3, Insightful)
I am not entirely sure but I think it would require a different laser, so a BIOS flash to support CD's may not be possible.
Why no love for DVD-RAM?
People exist who actually use DVD-RAM? I mean it has some advantages such as hardware verification of written data and the ability to be used similar to how a HD is used but because it is not highly supported and is pricey why not just buy an actual hard disk?
Re:Can't read CD media? (Score:2)
It may start to become more common... some inexpensive DVD recordable drives are starting to include DVD-RAM compatibility. The disks are still a bit pricey ($10 each?) which may keep DVD-RAM as a niche market.
Re:Can't read CD media? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can't read CD media? (Score:2)
Yes, but that is not the point. Many people have smaller systems now and either don't want a separate drive or CAN'T have a second, optical internal drive. I see no reason why the drive should not support reading and writing CD/CDR/CDRW, it should be extremely easy. It is a bad precedent to set- not having backwards support, and for something that is physically the same size disc!
CD's are not going away anytime soon. There are billio
Re:Can't read CD media? (Score:3, Insightful)
It is a bad precedent to set
What a load of crap. They're not setting a precedent... They're just getting their drive out the door before everybody else. The CD part of the firmware probably wasn't done, and leaving it out probably shaved days off the release.
If you don't understand i
It's a feature ... (Score:2, Funny)
Think of it as protection from Sony's Root-Kit
Re:Can't read CD media? (Score:4, Insightful)
I think CD compatibility would require a tri-laser head, which exist but might not be production ready yet. CD/DVD burners are generally, one for each medium because each has its own optimal frequency. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are a third, significantly separated frequency from the other two.
Frankly, I don't see the problem. At that price, it is probably marketed as an authoring test drive or a very rich nerd toy. Many nerds and many media authors tend to have multiple optical drives anyway.
Re:Can't read CD media? (Score:2, Funny)
Here, [aol.com] now it's a cupholder too.
(Explanation here) [mcafee.com].
The Summary (Score:5, Informative)
This just about sums up the entire article: Wow, neat. Don't buy one yet.
From the last flamefest... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:From the last flamefest... (Score:5, Insightful)
Backups, distribution of free software, etc. There are plenty of uses for a new recordable optical media type that don't involve buying commercial DRM-infested discs.
Oh hell, who am I kidding? The real reason is right here [thepiratebay.org].
Re:From the last flamefest... (Score:4, Interesting)
Blah. Sony may be screwing up this format launch so far, but I really hope they pick up the ball on this. Since it'll be at least another 5-10 years before another optical format emerges, I'd hate to see HD DVD be the one we're stuck with for that duration...
DVD(HD) on DVD5,DVD9,DVD20,DVD45 no HD-DRM (Score:5, Interesting)
Here are the steps to follow:
1. Upscale your DVD collection, writing using standard DVD's, in the DVD format, except enhanced for resolution, and perhaps formats (Perhaps Theora, DivX, MP4, in addition to MPEG2).
Call this DVD-HD.
2. Find a player that plays these DVD-HD discs. Buy this player.
3. When/If you find a commercial disc encoded with "DVD-HD", buy it as well.
4. Remember, don't buy the other HD-DRM discs (Unless it has be worked-around)
5. You can buy a DVD20 or DVD45 writer for data backups.
6. If a "DVD-HD" player is sold that plays "DVD20-HD" or DVD45-HD", buy this player.
7. Or just use VLC on a PC.
8. When/If you find a commercial DVD20 or DVD45 disc encoded with "DVD-HD", buy it as well.
0. If you bought into HD-DRM-DVD, then you expect the next step to be expiring media, then rentals only . Have fun.
Re:From the last flamefest... (Score:2)
But was the up-mod for the insight, or for the irony? ;)
Some of our zany mods need to tick it up a few for Informative, just to seal the deal
Why bother? (Score:5, Insightful)
Blu ray would have been relevant 4 years ago if it had been introduced then, but it wasn't. Instead it's been introduced in todays age when you can buy a 250 GB hard disk for less than $70 with ease. The disks for this will be like any other disk in that their effective lifecycle will just be a few years. Like any other burnable disk they will suffer from burn problems and very low reliability.
It doesn't price justify to buy this kind of media (nevermind the whole DRM bit). Your better off spending your money on hard drives, they hold significantly more data, are an order of magnitude cheaper and several orders of magnitude more durable. In all sincerity, why would you ever want to buy something like this?
Re:Why bother? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why bother? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Why bother? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not at all. VHS tapes aren't compatible with DVD players, however, Blu-ray and HD-DVD players are fully compatible with the DVD collection you already own.
In addition, these high-def formats are fundamentally different:
They are being introduced at the very start of a new TV technology (unlike DVDs, which were released at the END of NTSC TVs).
They provide the full resolution these new TVs can display (unlike VHS)
It's perfectly reasonable to assume HDTV will be the standard for the next 50+ years. Only 3D TV could require something new, and that's nowhere near the horizon.
Now that our home media has switched to digital (computer) standards, it's perfectly reasonable to assume backwards compatibility for many, many generations of formats to come.
There's absolutely no reason to re-buy your DVD library, thanks to backwards compatibility.
These technologies are just being introduced. Maybe they won't catch-on for a few years.
You're acting like you have to throw away all your DVDs RIGHT NOW.
Re:Why bother? (Score:3, Interesting)
Piffle (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Piffle (Score:2)
Re:Piffle (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Piffle (Score:2)
Yes, but dual-layer DVDs have been the single exception, quite possibly because people haven't yet felt the desire to upgrade from their single-layer DVD burners.
CDs and single-layer DVDs have dropped through the floor very quickly, and I can't see any reason why single-layer Blu-ray discs won't do the same.
Re:Piffle (Score:2)
Also you don't have to buy them on spindles to get them at or below $2/ea:
http://meritline.stores.yahoo.net/single-sample-du al-layer-dvd-dl-r-media.html [yahoo.net]
recordingstore.com [amazon.com]
Re:Piffle (Score:2)
Still? Still? When DL first came out the media cost about $10-15 disc -- probably more than that but I bought my first DL burner about 2 years ago when the media price dropped to about $10 (3 for $29.95). It was at least a year after that before the price started to drop, as competitive suppliers began filling the pipelines.
Re:Why bother? (Score:2)
Well once the price of the media and drives comes down, there is a/are format(s) that are somewhat standard, and high definition DVD players are more common how about to be able to master your own HD DVD's? You can't really cheaply mail out copies of the latest video you took in HD to people using hard disks and it also is pretty hard to get a high definition DVD player to play content when it is on a hard disk and not a compatible optica
Re:Why bother? (Score:2)
Re:Why bother? (Score:2)
(I so very want to see the looks on face when gray haired executive boss jerk gets angry at financial operations manager... I HATE THEM so much!!!!)
Re:Why bother? (Score:2)
Then you can transfer it to computer to computer and not have to worry if it has an expensive blue ray reader.
Your right about the hard drive. Definitely for $399 you can get a 200gig usb2 drive easily
Video (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Video (Score:2)
I'd love to see some feedback on this though.
It remains to be seen (Score:5, Funny)
Please forgive me. I seem to have caught a cold. It has persisted since, oh, about 1983 or so...
Re:It remains to be seen (Score:2)
Re:It remains to be seen (Score:2)
Re:It remains to be seen (Score:2)
Joke n.
- a humorous anecdote or remark intended to provoke laughter; "he told a very funny joke"; "he knows a million gags"; "thanks for the laugh"; "he laughed unpl
growisofs (Score:2, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Definitely (Score:5, Funny)
Create/burn PAR2 files with your backups (Score:5, Informative)
For those that don't know, PAR2 files are parity files that can efficiently reconstruct missing or damaged blocks in your archive. If you have more PAR2 recovery blocks than damaged blocks, then you can completely reconstruct all of the damaged files in your archive. The best newbie explanation I've seen is the "PAR & PAR2 files" section [slyck.com] from Slyck's Guide To The Newsgroups.
If I'm backing up to a data DVD-R (capacity 4,706,074,624 bytes), I'll leave around 4GB of space for the actual data and fill the rest (to the brim) with the PAR2 files that I created for that data. I name the PAR2 files starting with the letter 'z' so that they get burned on the outer edge of the DVD. When creating the PAR2 files, I choose a block size that is a multiple of 2048 bytes because that is the block size of a DVD sector.
Some easy-to-use tools to create PAR2 files:
Some DVD data recovery software (to get every readable block off a damaged disc):
Thanks, WuphonsReach.
Re:Create/burn PAR2 files with your backups (Score:5, Informative)
Interesting idea with the PAR2 files though.
Re:Create/burn PAR2 files with your backups (Score:2)
Re:Create/burn PAR2 files with your backups (Score:2)
On a very full disk (4.3GB) I'll go with a block size as small as 1/4 MB (256KB).
Still wish Peter would find the time to work on PAR3 which is going to be much faster at creating parity data (but less deterministic).
Re:im too paranoid (Score:2)
Moreover, having even larger disks would make that process a LOT more efficient. I'd much rather make multiple copies of a few large disks then multiple copies of dozens of smaller disks.
No doubt, putting all your eggs in one big basket is dumb, and putting all your eggs in multiple little baskets is a better thing to. Yet, if you can make copies of that big basket all your huevos are going to be pretty damn
Stupid Sony... (Score:3, Informative)
Now, right before the PS3 release, Blu-ray burners are available in the same price range. Even the media is similarly priced. If history repeats itself, which it always does, you should be able "backup" your PS3 games for under $400 in about a year.
Re:Stupid Sony... (Score:2)
Incredible! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Incredible! (Score:5, Interesting)
- $1995 price tag
- Could only record 650MB CD's, and at 2x speed
- Blank CD's started at $20 to $25 each.
- Could not handle rewritables, as there were none.
- No buffer underrun protection (i.e., $20+ coasters)
- The Pinnacle Micro drive I had came with super-beta software,
so you were guaranteed to get one of those pricey
coasters for every dozen disks.
The Blue Ray drive doesn't sound bad at all, in comparison. Expect media price to plummet as soon as there's competition, and expect the drives prices to drop 400% within 3 years.
Re:Incredible! (Score:2)
Re:Incredible! (Score:2, Interesting)
It appears young people today have no idea of how much IT costs have plummeted in the last few years. To me the Bluray player/recorder or even the (shock, horror) PS3 is cheap for what it can do, especially if you compare it against older technology and like it or not DVD is older
Re:Incredible! (Score:2)
The price will come down eventually. Since BD-ROMs are aimed fairly and squarely at consumers it is inevitable that you'll start to see them ship in some of the higher price PC models by the end of the year. I doubt t
Re:Incredible! (Score:2)
$19-$25 for the media isn't bad. I got started with DVD-R back when the disks were still a few dollars each. I expect that the media prices will drop to the $8-$10 range in about a year (if it follows the same curve as DVD media did).
With $1000 as its pricetag.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:With $1000 as its pricetag.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Tom
Why Blue Ray should win over HD-DVD (Score:3, Interesting)
The Last Samurai: 28GB,
Mel Brooks's Blazing Saddles: 26GB,
The Phantom of the Opera: 25GB,
Jarhead: 25GB.
The Bourne Identity: 23GB
Serenity: 20GB,
The Fugitive: 18GB,
Doom 17GB.
None of these movies could fit in a single layer HD-DVD, and some came very close to filling up the double sided one. Current capacity (double layer), Blue Ray: 50GB, HD-DVD: 30GB. but that's just the beginning. The highest achieved for the 2 formats: Blue Ray: 100GB, HD-DVD: 45GB. The theoretical max: Blue Ray 200GB, HD-DVD: 60GB. I'm really surprised that M$ and Inter support HD-DVD, obviously the Blue Ray has a lot more to offer capacity wise.
Re:Error in the article (Score:2)