2.5" Drives On the Desktop 291
An anonymous reader points out an article on XYZ Computing exploring the use of a 2.5" notebook hard drive in a desktop computer. From the article: "The tradeoff for these qualities has always been limited capacities, high costs, and slow transfer rates, but a the recent progression in portable storage techology has changed the 2.5" drive greatly. We put the Seagate Momentus 5400.3 160GB SATA notebook drive in our test system and took it for a spin."
Nice but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Nice but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Nice but... (Score:2)
Luggable (Score:4, Informative)
Of course now you don't have a 30 pound beast with a 5 inch screen. But it is the exact same concept.
Re:Luggable (Score:5, Funny)
Ever seen what some folks will brign to a LAN party?
True enough, but... (Score:2)
Re:Nice but... (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree with the others that notebook drives make a lot of sense i
Re:Nice but... (Score:4, Funny)
Sortof...
Article summary :
You can put a laptop drive in a desktop machine. Even though it's slower, everything will still work.
Well, Duh.
Well everything also works on my laptop, thanks for the amazing insight on the intricacies of hardware. Basically, disks work. Even the slow ones. I'm glad to know that.
Excuse me while I'm going to put an array of compact flash microdrives in my fileservers.
72k RPM laptop disks (Score:2)
Mine was, for example. I spent the extra 7% to add an after-market 72kRPM SATA disk (80gb vs 120GB, but hey, the 120GB is still useful in an external enclosure) and the laptop's performance about doubled for many tasks. It's worth every cent. The fact that Apple offer 72kRPM disks in their laptops is one of the bigges
Re:72k RPM laptop disks (Score:2)
72,000RPM! Holy crap! For 7% extra? I'm gonna put one of those suckers in my desktop and have 60GB of swap.
quiet home computers (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:quiet home computers (Score:2)
Re:quiet home computers (Score:2)
...and one possible source. (Score:2)
Re:quiet home computers (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:quiet home computers (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:quiet home computers (Score:2)
The dedicated media thin client doesn't need any of the extra (wasted) components that might be in a re-purposed machine.
Re:quiet home computers (Score:2)
-nB
Re:quiet home computers (Score:2)
Yes. In fact, I know it is.
Regardless I have gone the same route and appreciate the flexibility of an Xbox over a thin client.
Re:quiet home computers (Score:5, Interesting)
Considering that your hard drive is only consuming a few (as in, 10) watts, replacing it with a notebook drive won't save you any significant amount of money, even over the VERY long term. The advantages for notebook drives come, as others have said, in their small size and lower power consumption for notebooks.
Are you a married man by any chance? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:quiet home computers (Score:2)
I think we'll see within the decade solid state drivers. CF memory is now available in 3GB sizs for about $300; 32GB chips are now coming on the market; assuming these 3GB units use 8GB chips, we can imagine in the near year CF cards with a 12GB capacity at the same price point. These are already large enough to support a credible laptop computer, although you'd need ten or so to provide storage for a typical d
Re:quiet home computers (Score:2)
But it is media center ready, even though I chose XP Pro over Media Center becuase that's what I needed.
I do hear the drive on occasion though.
Re:quiet home computers (Score:3, Interesting)
Costs are good - awesome SRAID opportunity :) (Score:3, Interesting)
Whatever the answer, the advance of smaller (physically) but larger (storage) has arrisen from perpendicular recording [hitachigst.com] on the discs, which is itself a cool find.
Re:Costs are good - awesome SRAID opportunity :) (Score:2)
Re:Costs are good - awesome SRAID opportunity :) (Score:3, Informative)
There are two forms - Software and Hardware RAID. Software RAID is configured by the operating system, whereas Hardware RAID is a standalone piece of hardware that holds the discs and provides configuratio
Re:Costs are good - awesome SRAID opportunity :) (Score:2, Flamebait)
A quick Google search for "SRAID" [google.com.au] shows only 1 out of the top 10 are related to computers and RAID. The other 9 appear to be some word in gaelic [wikipedia.org]. The second page is worse. It also appears to stand for "SRA (Shop Replaceable) Assembly Isolation Diagnostic".
However, a Google search for "software RAID" [google.com.au] shows almost 10 times as many results, the first several pages of which appear to be entirely about computers and RAID. There's a bunch of howto's as well as ads for RAID gear.
So it looks like "SRAID" is
Re:Costs are good - awesome SRAID opportunity :) (Score:5, Insightful)
Compared to what exactly? You can get the same capacity, and much better performance, in a 3.5" form factor for under $50.
What I think is interesting is the cost behind setting up, say, a 4 Element SRAID system with these.
Why? For the same price, you could get four 500GB drives and have 2TB rather than 640GB... For a less than half the price, you could go with 320GB drives and have twice the space. For the same price as one 2.5" drive you could get the same 4-drive RAID as 3.5" drives.
Could heat be a problem here?
Heat (and relatedly, the somewhat lower power consumption) counts as the only advantage to using 2.5" drives. They cost more, hold less, and have shorter lifespans (They also make a more... "annoying" noise, IMO, though I don't know if I can fairly call them "louder"). Except for the niche markets of laptops and SFF/embedded, no one should ever even consider a 2.5" drive unless some design contstraint absolutely precludes the use of a 3.5".
Show off your hook, guys! (Score:2)
next to an ordinary drive [xyzcomputing.com]
In the other pictures the drive is by itself, so it could be as big as a lawnmower for all I can tell.
Re:Show off your hook, guys! (Score:3, Informative)
http://xyzcomputing.com/images/stories/articlepic
I'd say that's pretty telling.
Re:Papa Smurf wants his lawnmower back (Score:2)
Just helps to see it in someone's hand or something. Not Shaq's hand, though.
Mac mini? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think there are many Mac Mini owners who wouldn't jump at the chance of a slightly larger Mac Mini with a proper hard drive. Putting laptop drives in desktops is an exceptionally bad idea.
Re:Mac mini? (Score:2)
It is hooked up to ~23 network cameras at 640x480 capturing real time 24x7 and storing it to the external drive array holding 3 terabytes of video. It is also hooked up to a 23" monitor and using a Powermate for zoom capabilities (among other uses) it is an impressive displa
exceptionally bad? (Score:2, Funny)
boy, that's pretty bad!
You don't leave much room in your vocabulary for people like Micheal Jackson & the guy who drove a rocket car into a mountain!
Re:exceptionally bad? (Score:2)
Please. There's no shortage. Anyone willing to spend a few mil of their own money trying to get laptop drives as the default for the desktop is gonna get burned.
Re:Mac mini? (Score:3, Informative)
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ministack/ [macsales.com]
This case plus a 250GB 7200 3.5" PATA drive cost me $170, less than a 2.5" 120GB drive. And I got USB and Firewire hubs built in as well.
Re:Mac mini? (Score:2)
7200 spin 2.5 inch drives (Score:4, Informative)
Many laptop manufacturers now give options for 7200 spin HDD's in laptops. I have one from Dell, it somehow runs as cool and quiet as a slower 5400
2.5 Is Good For Raid Setups (Score:4, Interesting)
You can pack quite a few 2.5" drives in a desktop to create some neat raid setups. An example would be http://www.maxpoint.com/home/products/perph/spec_p g/es-252/index.htm [maxpoint.com]
You can also find solutions that will hold several more drives. This could be usefull for small form factor setups that people (myself included) use for pvrs. Small, reliable, cool running.
http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]Re:2.5 Is Good For Raid Setups (Score:2)
Re:2.5 Is Good For Raid Setups (Score:2)
You can find RAID 5 enclosures as well.
http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]requires software drivers (Score:2)
Already happening (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Already happening (Score:2)
Future of computing (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Future of computing (Score:2)
My iMac G5 is noisier, but, at the time it represented the best bang-per-dB. Its not silent, but I had to get rid of my external firewire drive because it was noisier than the iMac.
But if you put concepts of the lounge based Mac Mini and the iMac together, the obvious conclusion a 25"+ Mac, that also has HDMI input, but has USB ports for camera and iPod connec
Re:Future of computing (Score:2)
Re:Future of computing (Score:2)
And the response is (and I've actually heard salesmen say this to people), "Well, if you're going to do a lot of stuff on the internet, then you're going to want something really fast."
So... (Score:4, Informative)
The next generation of laptop hard disks have performance characteristics that are competitive with three generations old desktop hard disk drives. I fail to see a story. I'd be much more interested to see them compare these new 'hybrid' laptop hard drives with genuine top-of-the-line desktop drives.
And the newest hard disks aren't that loud. I just upgraded my iMac G5 with a WD Raptor (10kRPM SATA). You can definitely hear it more clearly when large files are being written or under swap conditions, but most of the time the difference in noise levels is indistinguishable -- meaning silent. And my subjective benchmarks reveal an almost 4x increase in the speed of common tasks.
Re:So... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:So... (Score:3, Informative)
Umm... Maybe you misread that. It's over an inch tall, and 4"x5.7", according to its spec sheet [hitachigst.com]. That would make it, by necessity, a 3.5" form-factor hard disk. It is nice, though. Now I just have to get a machine that can use SAS drives well, and save up a lot of money. I've got a 15kRPM Fujitsu hard disk around here somewhere that a customer gave me, but I never got around to shelling out the money for a
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:2)
I can't find the 2.5 inch model on their website, but they exist... There are plenty of news stories about them, and I've got one here.
Re:So... (Score:2, Funny)
As a general rule, if a Mac user notices a subjective 4x increase in speed, that's probably equivalent to an objective 5% speed increase.
Re:So... (Score:2)
OK, I'll bite. Upgrading an iMac G5 1.9GHz with 1.5GB of RAM from a WD1600, a 160GB 5400RPM drive with an 8MB buffer, to a WD740 Raptor, a 74GB 10kRPM drive with a 16MB buffer, dropped my boot time from 85 seconds to 30 seconds. Application icons that used to bounce 5-10 times in my dock before becoming active, now bounce once or twice. ANY benchmark can be refuted: Objective or otherwise.
I assume you're referring to Seagate's new 750GB behemoth with parallel recording, as an example of 7200RPM performa
This is going to happen (Score:4, Informative)
Re:This is going to happen (Score:2)
2.5" drives? (Score:5, Interesting)
Storage combinations (Score:5, Interesting)
Combining an internal 2.5" drive and external USB drives would be quite practical. You could leave the external drives off (and quiet) most of the time, hot pluging them only when you need them.
Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
I have found notebook harddisks run hotter, they are slower, more expensive and because they are not meant for use within a tower will require some creative mounting. If you need to mount a large amount of drive space in a MicroATX, use one 600+GB drive instead of 10x60GB.
The only conclusion they came to is that it was quieter and that there were other ways of silencing your desktop. I have a pocket 2.5" in a travel case, and it isn't very quiet. One day in the future we may see this HDD form-factor taking over the desktop market as we move towards miniturization, but IMHO the technology just doesn't seem mature enough.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Sorry for the quick rant. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sorry for the quick rant. (Score:2)
Depends what kind of access pattern on the drive there will be.
If all you will be doing with it is sequential access (like playing back MP3's for example), then 5400rpm would probably be just fine. A use case with a lot of random access, like the swap partition or an active database, would benefit from higher rotational speeds like 7200 or 10,000 rpm.
Re:Sorry for the quick rant. (Score:2)
In addition, heat and power consumption are becoming stead
You mean, like a Mac Mini? (Score:5, Insightful)
How could anyone write a whole article about 2.5" drives in desktops without even mentioning the Mac Mini?
Re:You mean, like a Mac Mini? (Score:5, Informative)
I think the news here is about faster 2.5" drives, not the possibility to put a 2.5" drive in a desktop. As that has been done for decades.
Nostalgia for the Sounds of the Early Computer Age (Score:5, Insightful)
Gone is the satisfying click-click-click feedback of the heavy tactile keyboards.
Gone is the deafening WHEEEEE-WHEEEEEE-WHEEEEEE of the dot matrix printer.
Gone is the atmospheric chuk-chuk-chuk grind of the hard disk.
Gone is the ultrasonic whistle of the screen changing resolutions.
Gone is the inquisitive thuka-thuka-thuka of a floppy disk scan on bootup.
Gone is the warm handshake WEEE-ERRR-HISS of the modem.
If the POST BEEP ever dissapears, I think the beauty and mystique of a computer coming to life will have been lost forever.
Re:Nostalgia for the Sounds of the Early Computer (Score:2, Funny)
Yes, I had one of those...
I still think that the dot-matrix noise did actually deafen me.
Re:Nostalgia for the Sounds of the Early Computer (Score:3, Interesting)
If you're lucky, you can turn this back in the BIOS setup program.
I guess you haven't seen some of those new boards that actually speak rather than beep their POST events [hardocp.com].
I don't know which is worse... (Score:2)
Of course, my first two computer screens didn't whistle, either... 'cause they only had one resolution.
Re:Nostalgia for the Sounds of the Early Computer (Score:2)
I love the power my system has, but the heat and noise the thing puts out is driving me up the wall these days. I'm starting to put a lot of consideration into either watercooling the thing or going mini-ITX.
Re:Nostalgia for the Sounds of the Early Computer (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Nostalgia for the Sounds of the Early Computer (Score:2)
Always... brings... a tear.... to my eye.
Sniffle
I need some Kleenex.
Re:Nostalgia for the Sounds of the Early Computer (Score:3, Interesting)
The clack lives on for specialty keyboard users: see the Matias Tactile Pro [matias.ca] and the Unicomp Customizer [pckeyboard.com].
Variable speed flopplies on early Macs (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Nostalgia for the Sounds of the Early Computer (Score:3, Insightful)
If I don't transfer 5 megabytes in a fraction of a second now, there's something wrong with the configuration of my system! Even my first PC-based hard driv
Re:Nostalgia for the Sounds of the Early Computer (Score:2)
I'll wait for "Solid State". (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry folks, I just don't see a need for a smaller hard drive when shortly there won't be a need for any hard drive whatsoever.
Cheaper, faster, more reliable, higher-capacity Flash memory is coming.
I'll wait for that particular bandwagon when it comes.
Re:I'll wait for "Solid State". (Score:4, Insightful)
Wrong (Score:3, Informative)
Wrong!
This page charts the annual improvement of price per capacity of hard disks (amongst other things): http://www.mattscomputertrends.com/harddrives.htm l [mattscomputertrends.com]
This page does the same thing for flash: http://www.mattscomputertrends.com/flashmemory.htm l [mattscomputertrends.com]
Here is a key quote: "The improvement rate for flash for the last three years comes in at 109% a year whereas for hard disks over the
Old news (Score:4, Insightful)
Quiet and Low Power? Just Buy a Laptop Already (Score:3, Insightful)
I keep reading about people wanting a computer that
is quiet, energy efficient and doesn't produce 80,000
BTU of heat. Many people see the solution to the
problem as retrofitting a desktop with huge heatsinks,
remote DC power supplies, special home closets for the
computer with long KVM cables and installing laptop
hard drives in your desktops. That's just crazy talk.
Folks, bit the bullet. Pay double (versus a desktop)
for a laptop and docking station and be done with it.
I haven't had a desktop in seven years and I don't
miss it at all. It was a little rough at first with
early laptop but we have long since passed the point
where performance is limited in a laptop. My latest
laptop is an IBM Thinkpad (well, Lenovo) Z60m. With
a wide screen, 1.5GB RAM, 100-gig drive and 2gHz
Pentium M processor, it is more than fast enough
for anything 92% of all, even advanced, computer
users would want.
Docked, I am able to pretend it is a desktop, even
using it with two monitors (a requirement in my
computing book). Yet, I sip power, am quiet as a
church mouse and produce next to no heat (compared
to a desktop).
As an extra bonus, I can take my computer with me
wherever I go.
(The 8% of you who really do need a desktop need
not respond. You know who you are and why you
can't make a laptop do what you need it to do.
I'm okay with you not having a laptop.)
Matt
Re:Quiet and Low Power? Just Buy a Laptop Already (Score:2)
Re:Quiet and Low Power? Just Buy a Laptop Already (Score:2, Informative)
Meanwhile, a desktop can be upgraded in $100 increments. None of these increments are particularly painful. No need to replace a display until it breaks (rare) or becomes obsolete (rare). Same for keyboard, mouse, and arguably HDD.
Re:Quiet and Low Power? Just Buy a Laptop Already (Score:2)
Upgradeability.
Re:Quiet and Low Power? Just Buy a Laptop Already (Score:2)
Not so fast (Score:2)
Yeah, I'll concur, that's just crazy talk. Funny how silencing my desktop involved neither. But, hey, don't let reality get in the way of a good "my
SCSI 2.5" drives (Score:2)
SCSI 2.5" drives (Score:2)
Xtore has a 2U 24x SAS JBOD here [xtore-es.com]
I imagine that an array with vertical bays and a pull-out shelf type arrangement could comfortably handle about 80 2.5" SAS drives in 3U of space. Power and cooling issues abound, however.
LSI and others have 36 port expander ICs arriving in the pipe now. HP recently unveiled a few new server models that house more than a dozen drives (Proliant ML570 G4 with 18x drives.) 2.5" SAS is going to make a big impac
On the topic of quiet ... (Score:2)
You don't even need to do that (Score:2)
There are desktop motherboards that take a Pentium M CPU, and have the same chipset as a laptop motherboard anyway. Plus, they have AGP or PCI-E ports in case you want to put in a more powerful graphics card, have a standard ATX power connector, etc. Or you can get one of AMD's mobile CPUs, which plug into any el-cheapo desktop motherboard just fine. And AMD m
two 2.5" drives in one 3.5" bay = RAID (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Uh, Okay? (Score:2)
500G vs. 160G is a big gap. An expensive RAID group of smaller drives will just get me the equivalent of a larger single drive.
Plus there's heat and noise from multiple smaller drives to consider. 3x on the 2.5
Re:Ok... (Score:3, Insightful)
I was about to moderate as flamebait, because the first page of the article answers why.
Then I read the last page of the article, which basically says use a portable drive for a portable application. no-where would you use it in a actuall Desktop.
heck the mentioned use in a media center PC sucks, cause you will need many of the notebook drives to replace a single PC drive, then you'll want a raid setup to get the speed up, which ends up using more space than they save.
My first thought was, it would
I used to put them in high end servers, too (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, yes I can picture a Beowulf cluster of those, though I actually use ROCKS. [rocksclusters.org]
Re:Ok... (Score:2)
Re:Removable storage made easy (Score:2)
Re:Great for [more] Rugged Computing (Score:2)
Re:Great for [more] Rugged Computing (Score:2)