Teen Sues MySpace Over Sexual Assault 979
kaufmanmoore writes "A 14-year old is suing myspace for $30 million claiming the site failed to protect her from a 19-year old she met through the site. The suit claims that MySpace doesn't verify a user's identity or age and doesn't do enough to protect users."
In other words (Score:2, Insightful)
And right now, Myspace has a lotta money.
Wait what (Score:3, Insightful)
MySpace says on a "Tips for Parents" page that users must be 14 or older. The Web site does nothing to verify the age of the user, such as requiring a driver's license or credit card number, Loewy said.
What kind of 14 year old kid has a credit card or a license?
"In May, after a series of emails and phone calls" (Score:4, Insightful)
mooches mooches (Score:5, Insightful)
Getting justice twice? (Score:5, Insightful)
Guess what? (Score:4, Insightful)
How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wait what (Score:5, Insightful)
The lawsuit claims that the Web site does not require users to verify their age and calls the security measures aimed at preventing strangers from contacting users younger than 16 "utterly ineffective."
But the part of the article that really caught my eye was the following:
Lauren Gelman, associate director of the Center for Internet and Society at Stanford Law School, said she does not think MySpace is legally responsible for what happens away from its site.
"If you interact on MySpace, you are safe, but if a 13-year-old or 14-year-old goes out in person and meets someone she doesn't know, that is always an unsafe endeavor," Gelman said. "We need to teach our kids to be wary of strangers."
This lawsuit is just ambulance chasing.
Re:What they need. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wtf (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"In May, after a series of emails and phone cal (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if Myspace *was* a pre-requisite for email, the rape didn't occur on-line. She met someone on-line and then decided to follow-up with a personal get-together. Where was her mother when she was getting ready for her "date"? What kind of mother teaches a 14-year-old girl that it's OK to meet strange guys? Finally, what's to say that age-verification would have prevented the rape? Do they really think that she would have been totally safe if she was meeting a completely anonymous boy her own age?
Wait just a minute... (Score:5, Insightful)
Age verification is fine for sites that require you to be 18 or over, but if you want 14-year-olds to use your site, I can't think of a good way to verify their age that doesn't have really disturbing implications.
If they talked to each other on the phone several times before meeting in person, why is AT&T not liable for failing to protect her?
Let me see if I understand this correctly: a 19-year-old claimed to be only 18 on his myspace profile, and this is worth $30 million?
I'm not excusing the guy's actions. He knew she was 14, and that's not OK, even if she said yes, which I'm guessing she probably did. And lying about your age is generally not cool. But I really don't think MySpace could have reasonably done anything that would have stopped this from happening. Do you think she wouldn't have agreed to meet him, if she had known he was really 19?
They started by sending e-mail, then exchanging phone numbers and talking on the phone; at what point do you draw the line and say what these people do is not MySpace's responsibility? If I find a (18+) girl on MySpace, send her e-mail, she e-mails me back, I send her my phone number, she calls me, we talk, we go out for coffee, things go well, we start dating, have dinner a few times, then one day we get into an argument and she punches me in the face - can I sue MySpace for failing to protect me from her?
Re:Wtf (Score:5, Insightful)
They expect others to make their choices for them, and to do it correctly.. thus the reason for laws designed to make other people raise your kids for you (video game laws, TV censorship/ratings laws, movie ratings, etc).. and of course if these other people and companies do it wrong they are held liable because well.. it wasn't their fault for being "stupid"...they outsourced their decision making to you so you are now liable.
It sucks to be sure, but this is what an ignorant majority wanted, so this is what our society has produced.
Re:Interesting world we live in (Score:3, Insightful)
$30 million is two decades worth of average adult earnings to you?
See, this is why the US has problems with offshoring. I'll do the same job for only $20 million! And we're off on the slippery slope to an average adult only earning $10 million or so in two decades... disgraceful.
Require retention of conversations for underage (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What they need. (Score:2, Insightful)
Cedric
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
If there was a law regarding identity verification that they failed to follow, then and only then are they at fault.
Suppose this girl got dropped off at the mall to hang out with some friends, and she met this guy there. Should we sue the mall for its role in the situation? How is the mall doing anything differently from what MySpace does?
Parents should teach their children not to run off alone with strangers, particularly older ones. The responsibility is shared between the guy for being a worthless piece of scum, the girl for being stupid, and her parents for not teaching her any better. If anyone should be sued, it is the guy... you know, the one who actually acted with malicious intent.
But wait, he probably doesn't have any money, and that's what this is all about.
Re:Wait what (Score:2, Insightful)
I am so annoyed with 'mom'. The girl is stupid, and she probably lied to her parents about where she was going, because teens do do that. In fact lets *hope* she lied, because if her mom okayed this without meeting the boy, she's negligent.
But I'm really annoyed with her parents. They failed in their duty of care here after the fact. The girl has had a nasty experience, and she will probably need counselling, but she is still healthy and alive. The perp is in jail. The parent's role now is to be there for her... and reinforce for her that *this is why* you don't go off with strange guys from MySpace. This is *why* when she's so young, she needs to clear her boyfriends with her folks. She might not have been alive to sue anybody.... she was very lucky.
But no. Ohnoes! MySpace! It was the bad innerweb people!
Agggh! *HeadGoBoom*
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How can they? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Wait what (Score:2, Insightful)
Nobody should ever assume that "everyone" is your friend. You can be anything you want on the internet. Everything can be spoofed. Theres no way to be secure about anything (There are some exceptions to this, but they don't apply here).
A 14 year old can have the education to be wary of what they read. That needs eduction though.
Yes, but you also have kids and pedophiles in the same, real world. With the only difference that on the internet, a pedophile can't harm you. In the real world, he can.
Dammit. And people over 18 just get the education about issues such as this from where?
Kids need to learn to! If you can read and write on a computer, you should be able to know that ANYONE can write ANYTHING on the internet.
Screening myspace won't help here at all. Nothing helps here. People need education.
Re:the dumb do get the money... (Score:2, Insightful)
Not this one again - I know this case is a standard-bearer for the insane lawsuits that come to pass in America but this one was actually not without merit - the coffee was served way too hot (180-odd degrees, which is unfit for consumption - it would burn the mouth) and McDonalds knew it was a problem - there were a *lot* of previous cases and the woman got third degree burns over some *very* sensitive areas.
Oh and the court case found her 1/5 responsible for what happened so was granted "only" 4/5 of the granted compensatory damages.
See now the one where a guy that broke into a house, managed to lock himself in the garage and had to spend two weeks subsisting on dog food and a couple of cans of fizzy drinks because the owners were on holiday and then sued that family for a lot of money - thats a better example :)
Re:Wait just a minute... (Score:3, Insightful)
Does MySpace generate an age from a user input date of birth or could he have written the profile when he was 18?
Also since this involves an alleged sexual assault why arn't the police involved...
Re:What they need. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wait just a minute... (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, assuming she had hit puberty, what's the problem? Most likely, he was much closer to her in maturity level than he was girls his own age.
This magical age limit thing is really bothering me.. especially since each country seems to have their own magical number. I can understand there needing to be a set agelevel as far as the law goes, because measuring maturity-level is pretty much impossible.. But we don't *need* to be as stupid when it comes what we deem moral. A childish 19 year old boy can be perfect match for a grown-up'ish 14 year old maturity-wise.
The law protecting the dumb and stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
That turned 180 degrees. Today, being stupid can be very profitable. Thus we get all those neat little "safety stickers" (you know, the "things look smaller in mirror" crap things) on EVERYTHING. In a perfect world, those stickers wouldn't exist and Darwin would be given a chance to prove his theory that whoever is too stupid to live will be eliminated from the gene pool. The stupid would die out and evolution would take over.
Suddenly Creationism (and its advocates) starts to make sense. Not as a theory, but just WHY they advocate it. I mean, would you like a theory that told you that you should've been eliminated centuries ago... anyway.
Our legal system is protecting those who're too stupid to live. Not every time, mind you, there are still very justified suits, but there's a lot of suits that reek like this one. I'm stupid, and it's someone else's fault that my being stupid and careless, and that I didn't think put me in an undesireable position.
It's convenient to blame someone else for our mistakes. And profitable! But as a bottom line, there are 3 people to blame:
The 19 year old, for he should DEFINITLY have known better.
The parents of the 14 year old, for they should have cared what their daughter is doing online.
The 14 year old, for not thinking what a 19 year old could have in mind.
Where I do blame most of the 14 year olds fault at her parents again. Why didn't they prepare her? They should have told her what a 19 year old wants from her, they should have told her that it's not a good idea to meet a random stranger online.
But that would have required to talk with her about (*eek*) sex! It's more convenient and less embarrassing to sue now.
And of course start a riot about how online media need to be doing the parent's job! I.e., watching what their kids do online.
How do we protect teens from their own ignorance? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What they need. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes... you can. Seriously, I really don't buy this. It's part of a growing idea (certainly in Britain) that it's impossible to parent properly and monitor what children get up to, and it's an absolute myth. Up until the age of about 11 or 12 children should have no guaranteed privacy in terms of what they say and do, and if they've been used to loving oversight for all of their lives they won't have a problem with this. Sure, they can have conversations with their friends, but parents should be aware of what's going on and step in if something isn't right.
They should be gradually introduced to having independent passtimes and activities - like a Scout group or sports team - but understand that they are supervised by the adult that's in charge there. Only when they're entering their teens should they start to do any activities really on their own, and to begin with they should be clearly definined things like meeting some friends for a milkshake and then picked up again in the car. By the time they hit mid-teens they should be responsible enough to go and do things without running everything past mom and dad, but always know that they can come and talk about any problems.
The idea that a 14 year-old girl can meet a 19 year-old man without parents being aware until afterwards should raise questions about the parents' responsibility (neglect is a form of child abuse, although I don't know enough details to allege that in this case).
Where does the Internet fit into this? Web usage should follow the same pattern: a 14 year-old saying "I'm using the Internet" is even less specific than saying "I'm going to the mall" - in both cases the answer should be "no you're not". If they say "I'm just messaging Jane" then 20 minutes later they should be asked "are you still messaging Jane - why not invite her over for dinner if you're talking for so long?" If they're researching something for school then that's what they should stick to. Social time on the 'net should be limited and checked. If they abuse trust and lie about what they're doing then it should be withdrawn for a period of time.
This may sound terribly draconian but I think it's the only way to bring up children safely and with an understanding of what's right and safe and what's wrong and dangerous. I spent hours on the computer alone as a child, but we didn't have a modem and my parents knew what software was there. I also spent hours in the street playing with friends, but my parents knew every other parent on the street and it was a quiet cul-de-sac. Things have changed now, and it's not safe to let children play outside alone, and neither is it safe for them to play on the Internet alone. If parents aren't available to supervise then the children can't play in the street; if they can't supervise the 'net then it should be unplugged or password protected until they can.
Maybe I'm old... (Score:5, Insightful)
The internet is the greatest market place in the world. People go here for trade, conversation, news/gissip and inspiration. There are public spaces where you can make a fool of yourself and there are dark back alleys where other people can make a fool of you. This is a place where everyone is treated like a adult with no regard for your age.
How many parents would let their 14yr old children roam a big unknown city at night by themselves? How do children learn to recognize the good from the bad it their parents don't guide them?
When someone has a private party (myspace) and is inviting children to join in... what may be expected? What is posible to expect?
In this case, myspace had no way of knowing that this man could be treat to this girl. You can not assume that every 18+ male is a pervert. This relationship (if that's the word) developed mostly outside the control and supervision of myspace. I think that there is really nothing myspace could have done differently; except maybe, not to invite children to begin with.
Re:What they need. (Score:5, Insightful)
Because they have more money to sue for.
Re:Wait what (Score:2, Insightful)
That's called "parents" where I come from.
Re:What they need. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is exactly the kind of story that should be covered in an afterschool special. If the family wants money, sell the story, to hell with the courts.
Personally, I think the family should be told to stuff it and she should be made an example of by the media as the stupid little slut she is. These stupid little girls need to be told, harshly, that trying to manipulate scuzzy guys with sex can very well get them hurt (or even killed). Instead, whenever it happens, the girls are never at fault and are always "good girls" who were unfairly victimized and could never do anything wrong - regardless of how trashy & loose they were.
A great example is this highschool girl from my hometown - she was dating a 30ish drug dealer several cities away for some time. As girls her age are prone to do, she grew tired of him and decided to break up with him. As they are also prone to do, they are petty & vindictive towards ex-boyfriends, and threatened to turn him in. As bigtime drugdealers are prone to do, he kidnapped her, beat her & eventually executed her, burying her body in a shallow grave in the mountains. Media response? Obviously she was pure, innocent & unfairly victimized by a complete monster. Not that she could -ever- have any idea that bad things could happen to her for sleeping with a man twice her age in exchange for meth...
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
Personal responsibility R.I.P (Score:2, Insightful)
Personal responsibility is survived by common sense.
Responsibility
begining of time -- 2006
R.I.P
Re:What they need. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What they need. (Score:5, Insightful)
Up until the age of about 11 or 12 children should have no guaranteed privacy in terms of what they say and do, and if they've been used to loving oversight for all of their lives they won't have a problem with this.
Man it's Nazis like you that take a childs trust and piss all over it - I don't care if you are dressing it up in nicey nicey language and giving a couple of half-assed exceptions to your draconian behavior. I give my child the privacy he wants, he respects me and listens to what I say and then he does it too.
I warn him of the consequence, which is all I can do, and if he fucks up then its his fault. He knows he can talk to me if he does, he can talk to me about anything. I'm not going to start taking that freedom away and locking up his television/computer/bike when I dont think its right for him.
Thats called LEARNING. You cannot cotton ball children, or chain them up and make them do what you want. They will just end up resenting you and then before you know it (because they won't tell you) they will be hooked up with some druggy taking herion.
The next thing you'll know, mr/miss, is they're face'll be on the news found dead somewhere.
Good luck, you're going to need it.
Re:How can they? (Score:3, Insightful)
What's in their heads? (Score:5, Insightful)
The children are protected online. Their problem is protection offline beyond the realms of a website. MySpace is not revealing personal data at another member's request through their website. The children are protected online to the best of MySpace's abilities. This girl wasn't abused on the web in a session of cybersex where MySpace provided a button to electrochute her.
How concerned her parents is on protecting her offline is a better question.
Obviously, they can do the basics as verifying personal data, and we have a similar site in Sweden that does exactly that, but abuse still happens, because believe it or not, there still exist plenty of jerks who don't mind providing their real information. Most probably get away with it too, by threatening the girl to not speak. In the end, your own mind is your most powerful weapon against "online predators".
The major flaw in their argument is that she was fully protected online, as MySpace does not allow members to get actual address and user information at request. Their problem is that she was not protected offline, and who's to deal with that if not her friends and/or parents. Have your first date at your parents home and have a talk in your room to get to know each other better for christ sake, not his apartment or something. Get some friends and go to the movies and have a good time while you get to know him. It doesn't have to be all "OMG, let's go to your apartment on our first date and have sex". Especially if you're just 14.
Who's your daddy? NOT Tom... (Score:3, Insightful)
The 14 year old willingly went out with this person...to dinner, then a movie. Why aren't the restaurant, movie theater and apartment complex (where the girl was allegedly assaulted) being sued as well? They weren't protecting this girl either. They aren't being held responsible, so what does MySpace have to do with the incident itself?
If an underaged girl meets some guy in public on the street and he manipulates her in whatever way, a lawsuit wouldn't be filed against the city...the responsible parties are the suspect, the girl, and her legal guardians. MySpace doesn't even begin to fit into any of these catgories.
If the Internet was fully regulated by the government and was subject to specific laws in which websites had a heavy responsiblity to police their users, then maybe this girl would have a valid argument/case. Otherwise, this is just another episode of "How Ignorant People Make Money Off of the Internet"
Re:How do we protect teens from their own ignoranc (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:What they need. (Score:1, Insightful)
Sexual assualt is not ok but mark this one up as being younge and stupid. If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain things are expected of you. This does not mean that what the boy did was acceptable but anyone slightly mature would realize what they are giving the impression they are going to do by going to his house. The girl involved is partially responsible only becuase she is younge. When i saw this i mean it like someone is responsible for their own mugging if they walk through a bad neighborhood at night. This lawsuit is rediculous becuase MySpace is where they met, not where the crime happened.
This is like suing the a mall where two teenagers meet before one purpetrates sexual assault on the other. This is rediculous and the only reason the suit is happening can be summed up from this line:
"Founded in 2003, MySpace has more than 80 million registered users worldwide and is the world's third most-viewed Web site, according to the lawsuit."
Basically MySpace seems like a good target becuase of its success. Another funny thing here is the $30m figure. You cant even sue someone for that much in worse crimes than sexual assault where the girl is partially at fault.
Re:What they need. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What they need. (Score:4, Insightful)
I suppose you read the part of my post that mentioned the 12-16 range, right? Starting around 12 yo, you can't just check everything they do.
This may sound terribly draconian but I think it's the only way to bring up children safely and with an understanding of what's right and safe and what's wrong and dangerous.
You don't have kids, do you?
Re:Maybe I'm old... (Score:2, Insightful)
As for using the site unmonitored at 14, by 14 my sister and I were certainly trusted to use the Internet safely... but not to go meet people randomly, and I like to think my parents did something right in teaching common sense and practical safety precautions and were thus justified in our freedoms. The only girl I personally know who was sexually assaulted by somebody met on MySpace was 16, and effectively an orphan (her addict mother has no real part in her life). She, as opposed to this girl, has an excuse for not knowing the dangers of what she was doing.
Gimme a Freakin' Braek! (Score:2, Insightful)
Lets not Mince words here, she's a money grubbing little SLUT and so are her parents. Had they taught her anything about life they'd have told her that boys and men will want to get into her pants, period. It's not nice, but it is reality. If they had talked to her about this when she began puberty maybe none of this would have happened. If indeed she was sat down and had the birds and bees conversation; they would have told her she should have known better and it was her bed to lay in now, pun not entirely intended.
Parents these days don't take proper responsibility or teach their children anything when it comes to morals or self worth, or even taking the responsibility for your own actions. I cannot believe that there is any motive other than publicity and Money.
I've said my Piece\Peace
Richard H. Smith Jr.
rhsjr7
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What they need. (Score:5, Insightful)
Hang on... (Score:5, Insightful)
Whooooah there. Wait just one damn minute. You surely can't mean what I think you mean, do you? Please tell me I've misunderstood what you've said.
If you go around to someones place, they may or may not be hoping for something of a sexual nature to happen, but there is never, ever an expectation on someone to "put out" just because you went to visit. Yes, it is a fair assumption that someone who has just wined and dined you is going to try to put the moves on you, but merely visiting isn't consent to take things as far as they want. The visitor can soak up the dinner and movie, drop over, drink their coffee and eat their chips, and at the end of the evening get on up and go, and there's not a damn thing expected of them.
Having said that, I'd question the wisdom of heading back to a 19-year olds place after dinner and a movie because there's a good chance they've got something quite specific in mind. But bear in mind this is a 14-year old, and they don't always have the life experience to avoid making such a poor decision.
My reply to you would be far, far more vicious if I thought you genuinely meant what you've written. It just seems so far out that I'm hoping you chose your words poorly; please tell me that I've misread your actual intent.
Re:What they need. (Score:1, Insightful)
there are two things in the world that is infinite
(1) the universe
(2) human stupidity
suing myspace for this kind of sexual assault is similar to suing DARPA for it
fuck the girl!
Re:How can they? (Score:2, Insightful)
As well he should. The 19-year old invited a 14-year old back to his place with the intent of having sex with her. Is there something else I'm missing in this picture?
Yes, he did something which was wrong by US law. This would've been legal in other countries, like Spain for example.
Then perhaps if he wants to pull this sort of crap he should head off there first. A 14-year old sleeping with a 14-year old is extremely regrettable. A 19-year old should have known better.
Re:Hi.. (Score:1, Insightful)
And she didn't experience the worst thing evar, that would probably be being killed/maimed. Sure, it is shameful, dangerous and unpleasant. But this extreme attitude that the victim should feel extreme shame their entire lives needs to go.
The guy is in jail, and why is myspace being sued again?
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
For the sake of humanity she really must lose the lawsuit.
The internet is a wonderful social tool. It brings people closer. Including the people you don't want to be close to. Once upon a time in order to find a variety of people I had to travel many miles from my parents suburban home to find such culture and people. Today I can find all the culture I can stand in about 30 seconds and three clicks. Good and Bad people abound both on the internet and off. There are things such as "dark alleys" on the internet too. And just like it's the responsibility of the parents to keep our 14 year old daughters from roaming alleys and talking to predatory individuals, it's also our responsibility to keep them off the alleys and steer them away from certain areas on the internet. Where was Mom and Dad when the minor went on a date with a 19 year old? MySpace is not a surrogate parent or baby sitter and makes no claims to be.
Why isn't anybody going after the mother? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What they need. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What they need. (Score:5, Insightful)
If they meet on MySpace, that's one thing, but if they want to go and meet in person, no website in the world is responsible for that.
Informed consent (Score:5, Insightful)
So why were they only sued in America? (Score:2, Insightful)
- If McDonalds coffee was really dangerous, they'd have been sued in every country around the World. Were they? Didn't think so.
- And if "Third degree burns occur at this temperature in just two to seven seconds" how ever did other customers drink this coffee without burning their mouths and throats and requiring skin grafts?
Damn. You're a troll aren't you? D'Oh!Re:Hang on... (Score:3, Insightful)
The phrase I latched onto specifically was "expected of you", rather than just "expected", which (IMHO) has a subtle but very different meaning. The relevant entry in Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary is here [m-w.com]. Specifically:
to consider bound in duty or obligated
which gives meaning to the original phrase something as: "If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain (sexual) things are expected of you (you are bound in duty to deliver these sexual things or obligated to deliver these sexual things)". Obviously there is big problem with this, hence why I hope the GP really didn't mean it like that.
Of course, if the GP really meant that, I wouldn't be the only one ripping them a new one, they'd be modded to oblivion, so forth. I don't think the GP has bad intent. I just think the choice of words is... unfortunate.
Re:What they need. (Score:5, Insightful)
But how did he learn that trust and respect in the first place? It doesn't happen by magic. Sure, children need to learn from mistakes, but those mistakes need to happen in a safe environment to start with so that the consequences are limited. When children are learning to walk we don't let them wander all over town and across busy streets - they're encouraged to try walking from one person to another in the home, and then outside holding an adults hand. Their freedom to walk without direct involvement of an adult is gradually increased, and if a worrying trend develops their their freedom is reined back a little, for instance if they keep wandering into the road then they might be made to hold hands for the rest of that trip and that pattern repeated until they've learnt the lesson.
Social interactions are no different, children gradually build up an understanding of how the world works and how to recognise danger in social situations. They aren't born with an innate ability to understand the world that would flourish if only parents didn't hold them back (as you seem to suggest). I can see your point: over-protectiveness can be just as damaging as neglect, but it's about being appropriate to the child's level of development. The majority of (but clearly not absolutely all) 14 year-olds are not ready to move about in the adult world completely unsupervised, be it virtually via the Internet or physically, as this story clearly illustrates.
Yes - but a responsible parent will ensure that the "fuck up" will not do serious damage to the mental or physical health of the child. In the case of this story the 'hands off' approach has been shown not to work - the mental and possibly physical heath of a minor has been seriously damaged through sexual assult that should not have been possible if appropriate supervision had been in place.
Wow (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Hang on... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hang on... (Score:4, Insightful)
It is quite possible the teen snuck out without her parents knowledge- not hard to do, teens have lied about where they are going since the dawn of time. But even this is an assumption; she may just have terrible parents. And greedy ones too, apparently, given their choice of Myspace as a target.
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
happens all the time, in every school, in every city. The only difference in this case was she met him on myspace instead of "at the library". It sucks to be him, but its not the schools fault and its not myspace's fault.
Re:What they need. (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's a possibility:
I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the first time the girl got layed. It's just that her mother found out this time and a teenage girl then does what works best: Play the victim role and accuse the neighbor/teacher/boyfriend/one night stand whatever really happened. I always have my doubts in cases like this. There ARE 14 year old sluts. There's no denying it. They get their tramp stamp tattooed when they're 12 and as soon as they have it they start showing it off in malls wearing hardly anything. And when the parents find out.... they can't handle their own failure and start victimizing their poor special girls.
I'm not saying pedophiles and assholes don't exist. They do and the law is the law. But who's fault it is when a kid ends up on someones dick remains to be seen. My guess is it's mostly the parents, the kid herself and the local school culture that are to blame. And of course the owner of the dick for not checking her ID.
And indeed sueing MySpace is like seuing the police for letting everything else happen on the public street "cause they didn't do enough to prevent it". Ridiculous.
Re:How can they? (Score:3, Insightful)
It is very simple, there is no verification of anything on the net. This is like searching around for some metric to judge evreyone else, it not only won't work it can't work. We will hear things like, "she said she had an athletic build
The truth of the matter is you cannot verrify someone over the internet using the same methods we use in person, it really is a diffrent thing. Both parties/people are comfortable in their anonimity and feel free to bs all the things they know they could'nt in person. It's like trying to repetedly fit the square peg into a round hole, we just have to find a method of explaination or understanding that will make people realize this.
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
She consented? No good, she's under 16, she's too stupid to make that decision. That capability doesn't magically appear until the day of her 16th birthday.
She lied about her age? Tough. He should have checked her ID.
He tried to break it off when he found out the truth and the whole "sexual assault" thing is typical teenage girl petty revenge? Well, sucks to be him.
Lots of possibilities here besides the simple "the guy is a sick pedo." But no one will consider any. He's better off just hanging himself in his jail cell right now. Even if by some miracle he's innocent and aquitted of wrongdoing, he's already been judged.
Re:Hang on... (Score:5, Insightful)
Part of me *hopes* this is a setup by the parents, in light of the "Palestinian runaway" and with MySpace being in the news an awful lot lately. It would make me feel better to think that her parents were trying to perpetrate a fraud than being just that hideously stupid. If your daughter is 14, you meet the people she goes out with, whether platonic or romantic. No exceptions.
Straight from the TOS. I hope Myspace sues her. (Score:4, Insightful)
Straight from the MYspace Terms of Service...
"Please choose carefully the information you post on MySpace.com and that you provide to other Users."
Choose being the key word here. She chose to contact people with her personal information, thus putting herself at risk...
"Your MySpace.com profile may not include the following items: telephone numbers, street addresses, last names"
If her profile can not contain any personal contact info as per the rules, she then chose (theres that word again) to contact this 19 year old.
Myspace is not at fault for anything.
If anything, this 14 year old is a whore.
Case and point.
Re:Hang on... (Score:5, Insightful)
Here in the UK, I'd take "expected of you" to mean "someone is expecting something of you". Well, people can expect whatever they want, it doesn't mean that it's going to happen. Knowledge of that expectation may instill a feeling of obligation in the person concerned, but that's another matter entirely. In the context of the definition I referenced, the original phrase you quote would have a meaning of "If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain (sexual) things are expected of you (the 19 year old hopes or believes that you will engage in these acts, but you are not necessarily obligated to do so)"
To my (UK) mind, an expectation is just a hope/belief, while an obligation is an expectation the non-fullfilment of which has consequences, including (as appropriate) the use of legal force to ensure the fullfilment and/or extract recompense for non-fulfilment.
Basically, me and the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary say that expectation is not the same as obligation. You and the Merriam-Webster dictionary disagree. It's a "two people separated by a common language" thing
Given that I also assume that the OP is American, I'll bow to your interpretation of his words, no matter how wrong it feels to me.
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
The 14-year-old in all reality probably consented to whatever went on - maybe it's different across the pond but here in the UK pretty much ever girl, from thirteen and up, wants a 18+ boyfriend with a car and fat wallet - yeah, the guys are wrong for going along with it, but it's hardly 'worthless piece of scum' time - girls of that age are more likely to want a boyfriend of 19 than one of their own age (for the record, my girlfriend is 18, as am I).
If you let someone take you out on a date, and then go back to their place, you are obviously not being forced against your will to do those things - the girl spent many hours talking to this boy, via emails, phone calls, etc, and I'd bet you any money you like 'cybering' of some sort was involved, from both sides - I really doubt this guy sprang this on her after pretending to innocently take her out to dinner and a movie... but hey, one overzealous soccer mom finds out her underage daughter made out with a guy of 19 and it becomes 'sexual assault'. The article mentions a 27-year-old assaulting a 13-year-old, yeah, that guy's a 'worthless piece of scum' as I'm betting he lied about a lot more than one year and it was a lot less consentual, but this? This is just a teenage girl wanting an older boyfriend, her mom finding out and going apeshit, with the nice added bonus that if she keeps going apeshit she might get $30m in her back pocket.
Parents of teen girls: Girls of that age are sexually aware. Most girls that age want a dude with a car. This means that given the oppertunity they will jump their bones. Don't like it? Watch your damn children! If I'd spent hours on the phone to strangers every day my parents would sure as hell know about it, and if I arranged to meet anyone I met on the internet, alone, my mum'd still kick my ass for being so stupid even now.
Re:Hang on... (Score:2, Insightful)
Believe it or not, 14 year olds can think, life experience or not. At 14 I certainly knew that people lied and that its not a good idea to off with a stranger who's face I never even saw.
In this particular case the girl was pretty stupid and there's no law against that. MySpace isn't liable because her parents (in all likelyhood) overprotected her to the point where she thinks the world is nothing but rose petals and puppy dogs.
Its amazing that when AOL was hot they were not responsible, even though I'm sure a lot of 14 year olds met others through IM and chat rooms.
Finally, I guess she does now have a 'life experience' from which she can learn, doesn't she?
Cynical-vision.. ACTIVATE! (Score:3, Insightful)
"I hooked up on MySpace and it went bad, bad enough my parents found out. The guys in jail but I'm still they're blaming me for putting up a MySpace page looking for hookups,who can I blame? Oh yeah. MySpace did it by not stopping the guy I e-mailed. We should also sue MicroSoft for not predator filtering e-mail in outlook"
Or...
"Our daughter is no slut. There's no way that unless someone or something else facilitated it she would never get in a situation like that. Where is she now? She was really upset so she's spending the night at her friends.. um.. Marsha or somethings like that's house. We can't get a quote for you right now from her because she said Marsha's phone was out..."
Maybe I'm wrong, I'll admit that. But if I were betting money I know where it would be. Yes, the guy is a creep and criminal for doing this, but the parents should have been aware of the childs surfing habits. There is no excuse now a days and enough software that you could both track and control a browser. At the very least they should have known about her MySpace site, and her e-mail.
Re:Hang on... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is when an underage user misrepresents him- or herself by saying that they're older than they are; THIS is a violation of their rules.
This is why I don't understand how age verification would have solved anything to begin with, because it wouldn't have stopped her from being on the site. But regardless, they shouldn't be held accountable because she broke the rules, period.
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
That just verifies that someone behind the keyboard is in posession of the eID card of someone of a certain age. It does nothing to (and cannot possibly) verify that the fingers on the keyboard actually belong to face and identity on the card. The PIN helps, but still is not certain.
Re:Hang on... (Score:3, Insightful)
to consider bound in duty or obligated
which gives meaning to the original phrase something as: "If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain (sexual) things are expected of you (you are bound in duty to deliver these sexual things or obligated to deliver these sexual things)". Obviously there is big problem with this, hence why I hope the GP really didn't mean it like that."
You left out the word 'consider'. She is not in reality bound in duty, but its very possible (if not likely) that the 19 year old considers her in some way bound in duty. Expectations are not needed to be rooted in reality, in fact they are often not.
Re:Hang on... (Score:4, Insightful)
The fact that teens sneak out does not mean that the parents aren't lousy. They're still responsible, and they're still lousy for letting their teen sneak out in the first place. More to the point they are lousy parents for forcing their kid to feel like they have to lie and / or sneak out to do the things they want. I didn't sneak out, because I knew I could go to my parents and tell them exactly where I was going.
MySpace Meet MyLawyer (Score:3, Insightful)
Ummm... am I missing something? (Score:4, Insightful)
From the article (Score:3, Insightful)
To create an account, a MySpace user must list a name, an e-mail address, sex, country and date of birth.
"None of this has to be true," the lawsuit said.
Uh, what 14 year old has a DL or credit card? This would accomplish nothing. The adult predator who does have a CC and/or DL could simply input their info and still sign up as a minor, saying that they're verifying that they give permission for their child to have an account. This still wouldn't solve shiat.
The kid's parents are shirking responsibility for their inaction to supervise her and the stupidity of their daughter.
Granted she didn't deserve this, but c'mon. MySpace isn't responsible for making sure it's users aren't acting like dumbasses.
Also from the article:
"If you interact on MySpace, you are safe, but if a 13-year-old or 14-year-old goes out in person and meets someone she doesn't know, that is always an unsafe endeavor," Gelman said. "We need to teach our kids to be wary of strangers."
If your child doesn't know by kindergarten that strangers aren't to be trusted, you're asking for trouble. If your teen doesn't know by now, then thats one example of failure to adequately parent.
"We feel that 1 percent of that is the bare minimum that they should compensate the girl for their failure to protect her online when they knew sexual predators were on that site," he said.
They're going to have to PROVE that MySpace knew that there were predators on their site and failed to police its own system. Even if MySpace was used like this in the past, that doesn't go towards proving it. They're going to have a hard time with this point.
I live in Travis County, and can't wait to see how this unfolds. I hope it gets thrown out of court as its an obvious attempt to get a hand-out.
If they really want justice, sue the 19 yr old that molested her. Of course, they won't since he doesn't have $30M to pay them.
Re:Hang on... (Score:5, Insightful)
While I think that it is terrible that this girl was assaulted, I still think this lawsuit is BS though with the parents and girl both shirking their own resposibility in avoiding the situation.
Re:Hang on... (Score:3, Insightful)
Absolutely.
and they're still lousy for letting their teen sneak out in the first place.
They may not have had a choice in the matter. It's not too hard to say you're going to an event with X, and get X to go out the same time as you elsewhere. I've seen it done, and I was X a few times as a kid myself. Not saying it's right, just saying it happens.
Alternatively, you're completely right.
More to the point they are lousy parents for forcing their kid to feel like they have to lie and / or sneak out to do the things they want.
Or the parents are fine and the kid is lousy or foolish. Or alternatively, again, you're completely right.
I didn't sneak out, because I knew I could go to my parents and tell them exactly where I was going.
Not all kids are good kids like you appear to have been nor have good parents like yours seem.
Re:Hang on... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What they need. (Score:3, Insightful)
Dude, noone is _responsible_ for their own mugging or their own rape, especially when the _only_ "fault" is being at that place at that time. It's not like someone went to the biggest gangster in the neighbourhood and started calling them names or anything even remotely resembling starting it. So blaming the victim or making them _responsible_ of their mis-fortune, when again all they've done was happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, strikes me as _absurd_ to the extreme.
You may call it poor foresight, maybe even bad judgment, but outright shifting the blame onto the victim is just surrealistic.
Also, as a guy, I feel insulted by being compared to a mugger in a bad neighbourhood. The implication that going to a guy's house is obviously (enough to deserve blaming the victim) gonna result in getting raped if you don't put out, is outright insulting to males as a whole.
And generally, I don't know in what geek fantasy world do you live, where that kind of an attitude towards women is normal, but rest assured that most males can understand such notions as "free will." Nothing "is expected of" anyone just because you gave them a meal and a cinema ticket. If you want to get laid, there's that "free will" again: you have to make them want to do that and/or get past their inhibitions. You're trying to win someone's _consent_, not buying a quick fuck at a brothel. Wining and dining them is a means of making yourself likeable enough to that end, not buying a non-refundable ticket for sex.
I can tell you that I've had classmates and such coming to my home, or me going over to theirs, and the notion didn't even enter my head that I have some obvious right to fuck them one way or another. Sure, I'd try to make some move, rarely it actually worked, most of the time it _didn't_ work (guess my being fairly nerdy didn't help either), but at no point was there an idea that they have some duty to put out, much less that failure to do so is punishable by rape.
So excuse me if I take it as an insult when I read no less than that coming to my place was comparable to going to get mugged at night in a bad neighbourhood.
And let's not even get into the whole aspect of doing it with a underage kid, in any form or shape.
"This lawsuit is rediculous becuase MySpace is where they met, not where the crime happened."
With that I can aggree, though. But again, that doesn't make the girl guilty of her own rape either.
Re:From the article (Score:3, Insightful)
If anything, the parents should be the ones held responsible for their underage daughter's actions. They are, afterall, supposed to be legal guardians.
MySpace should countersue the parents.
Responsibility (Score:3, Insightful)
This idiot of a kid probably placed herself as an adult (listing her age as 18). Went and met some guy who she thought would be "sooo cool" to meet because he is older. Then got in way over her head.
That, or in related news 14 year old gets married to 19 year old who previously assaulted her.
Re:Hang on... (Score:3, Insightful)
"Consider"
This is a word that is based on opinion. "I consider that 19 year old to be an asshole". It is my opinion and nothing more. He may consider what he done to be ok. Highschool kid going out with highschool girl.
And as the post before yours said, expect is not obliged. He expected sex does not mean she was obliged to give it to him.
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody seems to realise that this entire issue is only an issue because most European-descended industrialised societies have run out of targets to hate. Other nations? No, we pity them, give them aid, and invade them, but we can't hate them: they're too weak to hate. Other religions? No, can't do that either: it causes civil strife within a nation and Crusades and Holy Wars without. Other races? Can't do that either. At least not publicly.
So goshdarnit, whom can we hate, unreservedly, with all our hearts? Gentlemen, the answer is paedophiles. That's right, child molesters. They are the new witches of today and we all enjoy seeing them burn at the stake: they are the one "species" we can all feel superior to and not feel guilty about it.
I remember a case here in England where two men shared a jail cell and one of them castrated the other because he had been convicted of some kind of rape. You wouldn't believe the smug self-satisfaction the public greeted this news with. No one seemed to notice that we shouldn't be resorting to criminals to mete out rough "justice" to other criminals: society itself is responsible for that, but would prefer to be hypocritical.
If the guy didn't actually forcibly rape the girl, the parent is absolutely correct: he should kill himself right now, because even if by some miracle, the courts acquit him, society has already judged him guilty. He will never recover from this debacle, careerwise or in any other sense. He is a marked man.
Surely in societies where girls as young as 9 - 12 boast of sleeping with two different boys in a single night at Catholic camp (yes, it happens, and often), a slight change in perspective is needed. There is a clear difference between such wanton and consensual promiscuity and those who genuinely do not wish to engage in sexual activity, whom the law seeks to protect. Unfortunately, below the current age of consent, it becomes difficult to legally seperate the two, the issue being topical enough as it is. It often becomes a case of "my word against yours", where the female word is often given more weight.
Until we have some progress, the fellow in TFA, if he is innocent of true forced rape, will be screwed by the mob justice the public is dying to mete out to him.
Re:Maybe I'm old... (Score:3, Insightful)
I blame the parents for not learning their child to think.
Re:Getting justice twice? (Score:2, Insightful)
As Marcus Aurelius once observed, "A man cannot gold-plate his Ferrari with justice alone."
Re:Whore Schmore (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hang on... (Score:3, Insightful)
This can be chalked up to a lousy kid too. You pick your own friends when your young, and if you pick stupid peers and start doing stupid things against your parents wishes, that does not make them lousy.
Re:Getting justice twice? (Score:3, Insightful)
The bottom line is only the perp is responsible .. (Score:5, Insightful)
FTFA: The lawyer for the parents:
FTFA: The lawyer for the parents:
FTFA:
FTFA: Stanford Law School:
And the same can be said for the local mall, the local cineplex, the local church, the local school, the local park, and any one of a number of other venues. Pete Solis has been arrested and charged. MySpace hasn't been charged, because they commited no crime, and didn't go out of their way to enable a crime. The only other difference (and a very significant one) is Solis, the alleged rapist, doesn't have $30 million.
Bottom line: There is no real way to verify a person's age or identity online that doesn't also cause problems. The internet is like any other public place - anyone can use it, and anyone *will* use it - which is why parents need to be more vigilant. Even that won't be enough, though - if the Internet were to disappear tomorrow, rapes and assaults would still happen, no matter how careful everyone is ... which is why you go after the per[p|v]s.
Re:Hang on... (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, sorry for lumping you into that group. I tend to jump the gun sometimes, because when I was that age, I promised myself that I wouldn't underestimate kids, like adults were doing to me at the time.
But a good number of kids that age do have a degree of naivety, and some girls that age may not have caught onto the sheer number of people who will say and do whatever they can to get into someones pants.
Well, that's partly their parents fault, after all.
Yes, and it's sad that she had to learn this way.
Its unfortunate, but I also see no other way of learning such life experiences.
Re:Wait just a minute... (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe because it's COMPLETELY NORMAL BEHAVIOUR ?
Teens having sex with teens is screwed up to begin with.
Why ? Because some fucked-up religious puritans think so ?
Re:How can they? (Score:4, Insightful)
What other information do you need? If you have the name and address, that's all you need to come in the middle of the night and arrest them. Are you talking about whatever additional information that the authorities might need to decide that you are an enemy of the state? Well, once you have a giant database of names and addresses, a fascist government simply needs regular police monitoring to discover political dissidents in order to start disappearing people.
People living in fear of the authorities will call in and report a controversial editorial writer or talking head. People have reputations as to who they are, what they do, and what they believe, so all you need to do is start asking questions as to who has said what. There you get a name, and that is all you need.
Outlandish, eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
It wasn't too long ago that it could have been LiveJournal instead of MySpace in this headline. Should be interesting to see who winds up in the crosshairs once MySpace wears thin. Time for a loser-pays rule for suing, IMO.
The parents are the ones suing, not the girl. (Score:2, Insightful)
The money-grubbing nature of the suit makes it likely that the parents found out about this later and are exploiting the opportunity to milk money off Myspace success. The girl herself wouldn't even be thinking about Myspace unless she didn't even care about the 19yr-old's participation in the first place.
The girl may even have participated willingly in the act(which doesn't make it legal), but then the parents found out later and wanted money.
Re:How can they? (Score:4, Insightful)
As well he should. The 19-year old invited a 14-year old back to his place with the intent of having sex with her. Is there something else I'm missing in this picture?
Oh no! Teenagers having sex! Won't somebody please think of the children!
Re:Hang on... (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps. But if you can't protect your children against their own stupidity, don't expect a web site to do it for you. So no $30M or whatever they're asking for.
Re:Hang on... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What they need. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you leave your kids with a known pedophile you are guilty of willful endangerment irrespective whether anything happens. MySpace (as much as I think it's a worthless POS and should die) is not responsible for this. WTF was a 14 year old doing looking to meet a guy for anyway? And a Double WTF to the parents for not at least having the meeting supervised.
As a parent of two kids I will acknowledge that you can not watch your kids 100% of the time, but instilling basic self preservation and understanding of being in situations you can not control is something that should happen before a child is allowed to run free.
-nB
Re:What they need. (Score:4, Insightful)
It doesn't matter if it was consensual. (It probably wasn't forced sex, or he'd be charged with rape, not sexual assault)
It doesn't matter if this would never have come to light had the mother not found out.
He's 19. She's 14. As you said the law is the law, and sexual assault is sexual assault.
He should be prosecuted - it is his fault he fooled around with a minor, and all accounts indicate that she said she was 14 on myspace.
Oh, and btw, suing myspace is ridiculous.
Re:What they need. (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree....what the hell happened to personal responsibility? And in this case...since she is a minor, it applies to her parents!!
Actually...I'd say the avg. 14 yr old today is more savvy than my generation and should know much better than this....as a young girl, you can't be that trusting of someone you just meet. Also, her parents should be keeping up with who her friends are and who she is meeting..especially from some online forum!
It isn't the websites fault nor responsibility to police behavior...they are just providing a communitcations forum.
People could be meeting by telephone, but, you wouldn't think of suing the phone company for not doing their part to screen people would you?
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
In the US sex with a minor is a statutory crime(hence statutory rape). This means that you are guilty of it merely by having been proven to have commited the act, there are no extenuating circumstances.
Therefor we know that he didn't have sex with her(or that she was consenting, is still consenting and won't testify against him). As he's not being charged with attempted rape we can probably even presume he didn't come very close to commiting said act.
Now we've got down to sexual assault, which can be pretty much anything from innapropriate touching, upward. That's probably very questionable behaviour, but not really all that unexpected on a date, particularly if they knew each other for a while.
All we really know in this case is that a 19 year old tried to date a 14 year old. While I personally think this is probably wrong, I also know that if he'd been 17 it would have been perfectly legal, even though she'd still be 14. She knew he was a high school senior on the football team(and it's not totally unheard of for guys on the football team to have been held back either for educational reasons or by parents who want them to have a size advantage), doesn't sound like too much of a lie to me. He didn't just abduct her off the street, and he seems(based on the levels of crime involved) to have let her go without too much of a fuss. So while he's probably a bit of an idiot, he's not exactly scum of the earth material.
Re:Hang on... (Score:2, Insightful)
Kids will never ask for permission to have sex or do drugs because they already know the answer.
This is why, like I've been saying, the answer to those questions must not be flatout NO. The answer must be 'Here's how to do those things somewhat safely, but do you really feel you're ready for that?'.
Also, with booze, it's a good idea to let them 'experiment' by getting them completely smashed on vodka one Friday night, while safely at home, so they have a horrible hangover Saturday. And videotape them looking like an idiot. And ask them if that's what they really want to do. Play dirty. ;)
How is this Myspace's fault? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How can they? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How can they? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You're Out Of Touch (Score:4, Insightful)
-nB
Re:Wait just a minute... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hang on... (Score:2, Insightful)
Okay, you're the one crossing a line here. The girl is innocent. I don't know exactly what you would think she was guilty of, but even assuming you meant 'She intended to have sex but chickened out', you're wrong. She chickened out, if it was that, in a car in a parking lot, so they obviously were not about to go into full intercourse at that point. This wasn't 'both of them almost completely naked on a bed', and he put his hand somewhere and she decided to sto pright then and there, or whatever you think it was.
As for the guy's intention being nefarious. I'm sorry, 19-year olds shouldn't even try to get laid with a 14-year old. Not because it's illegal, but because she's got the maturity of a high school freshman, whereas he's supposed to be an adult. For all we know, she's mature for her age, and he's immature, but that age gap is about twice as far as both I, and law, are comfortable with.
Re:How can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
Man, you people are paranoid. WTH is wrong with a country requiring their citizens to carry an ID with them all the time? I've had mine since I was 12, and only *one* time did somebody require me to show it to them. That person was a cop, giving me a ticket for a traffic violation. It serves the same purpose as a drivers license: to allow the police to identify you when you commit a violation or a crime. The only reason he asked for my ID and not my drivers license was because I comitted the traffic violation by bike. If I were driving a car, he would have just asked for my drivers licence.
Other than that, the ID only leaves my wallet to show my dorky picture to friends. Now, what does it matter if the information is written on the thing, embedded in a chip, or both? None whatsoever. But hey, as soon as identities and electronics meet, armageddon must be near, right?
The positive benefits of an ID are stuff like ease of identification when I'm found dead, or badly hurt somewhere, so they can contact my immediate family; police knowing who I am when they arrest me for comitting a crime; age verification towards merchants who may not sell certain products to minors etc...
The downsides? I can only think of one: when the thing gets stolen, I'm required to report it and get a new one. That means paperwork and a couple of trips to city hall. Big fucking deal.
If you people actually took the time to educate yourselves about stuff you so religiously oppose, instead of following the herd and repeating the voice of the dumb masses, you might have noticed that the API is freely available, opensource implementations are already there, hence there is no bloody way the government can track you through it because nothing gets communicated to a central government server during any of your transactions. Otherwise it would bloody well show up in the API and opensource implementations and you can bet your ass it would be a huge scandal, and the whole eID deal would be dismissed faster than you can say "dog". The worst they could do is have the chip secretly log all transactions behind our backs, then datamine our returned IDs when they expire and we're supposed to exchange them for new ones. Yeah, 5 friggin' years later, they can finally get to my transaction logs. Whoopty-fucking-doo!
Maybe it's just 'coz most of you people live in the US... Living under a government that tested illicit drugs on their own troops to verify their validity as a weapon during the Vietnam era, that tested chemical warfare shit on their own soldiers during the gulf war, that constantly lies to their people to justify going to war (WMDs in Iraq anyone?) killing thousands of their citizens... Maybe all of that made you people a little paranoid and crazy in the head when it comes to trusting any government. But trust me; the worst shit that happens around here is some helicopter manufacturer paying some politicians to give them a positive evaluation when they're competing with another manufacturer to get this large government contract in, or politicians comitting fraud to line their own pockets and build luxury villas in a nice and quiet neighbourhood.
We Europeans value our privacy just as much as you yanks, the difference is we approach the privacy issue on a "think first, analyze the situation, then speak" basis, whereas you guys have more of a "shout fanatically as soon as anything even remotely applicable to our privacy gets mentioned" mentality. Fanatical shouting about stuff you don't understand doesn't make you seem more knowledgeable to anyone except your equally dumb peers who don't understand the stuff themselves, but have the same desire as you to belong to some "elite group of critical thinkers", although their thoughtprocesses could probably be surpassed by Lassie on a bad day.
Girl sues Stop-n-Shop next? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What they need. (Score:5, Insightful)
Good point. The phone company is a common carrier and is not responsible for what people say and do with it.
Therefore she should sue her ISP, not MySpace. After all, her ISP is likely against net neutrality, implying that they do not wish to be a common carrier, and therefore are responsible for what happens over the connections they provide...and therefore are liable when bad things happen.
Re:Hang on... (Score:3, Insightful)
Especially rebellious teens.
Re:Really? Could have fooled me (Score:3, Insightful)
These are slashdotters responding to an article which (I gather) makes the assumption that he's a sick pedo. So they present a plausible counter-theory. That's what I'd do, regardless of which way the article decided. If you counter a statement, at least the fair (correct) conclusion is more likely to be found than if everybody just jumps on the bandwagon for whichever explanation comes up first.
Re:How can they? (Score:3, Insightful)
Myspace sends an XMLRPC verify() request to the state's verification server, with an identification number. I had a state-issued ID number when I was 14 years old; anyone 15+ is very likely to have one via the Learner Driver's License. Anyone who doesn't...well, it's an incentive to go out and get one then, isn't it. Or the school district could verify ages the same way with a student ID (not an SSN).
Some type of system that works ilke Scan DL > Send DL to mainframe > DL returns information on the person.
In order to proffer a DL# to an electronic system, you have to have the physical card in front of you. Nobody in their right mind is going to remember a number that in FL is in the form of $-xxx-yyy-YY-zzz-n after all. The site compares the responses of the xmlrpc query to the provided information, and approves or denies the registration.
Or, to make it even more secure, why not directly send verify(DL#,criteria) and have the function return OK or GO AWAY depending on whether it matches. Do the comparison server-side, so the information stays in the relative security of the Government's systems.
I'm not opposed to positive ID verification...but if they do positively verify IDs, they need to remove the restrictions on who can view who's information. If everyone is legitimate, they have no business hiding the younger people from the general network.
misleading summary (Score:4, Insightful)
"A 14-year-old is suing MySpace
it should read:
"An opportunist shyster is capitalizing on a 14-year-old's misfortunes to shake down MySpace
PR Stunt by Homeland Security (Score:3, Insightful)