Blizzard, Square/Enix Ban Yet More Farmers 318
Eurogamer has the news that both Blizzard and Square/Enix have banned another batch of players for farming. The number of accounts, and the amount of money removed from the economy, is astonishing. From the article: "According to the World of Warcraft website, some 30,000 accounts were banned last month - and, as a result, more than 30 million gold were removed from the economy across all realms ... Based on the results of this investigation, more than 250 [FFXI] accounts among those found to be involved in large-scale RMT operations have been terminated... Thanks to these measures, more than 250 billion gil has been removed from circulation."
Well... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Subsidizing farmers is for national defense (Score:2)
Pity someone wasted a mod point modding a joke as a troll.
Re:Subsidizing farmers is for national defense (Score:2)
Cost of crops in the US without subsidies = cost of crops in 3rd world
And you need to keep the infrastructure in place. Sure, you can grow food anywhere, but to grow large quantities of food (say, enough to feed a country) you need irrigation, storage and distribution systems already in place. Otherwise they take years to build and your country has starved in the meantime. Nothing will lead people to revolt quite like hunger.
Re:Subsidizing farmers is for national defense (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Subsidizing farmers is for national defense (Score:5, Insightful)
If the United States were to decide to grow enough food for all the hungry in the entire world (and we could for at least staple foods, we've got plenty of empty farms due to subsidies, etc), then all of the food (not far) beyond what we already distribute would rot in a warehouse waiting to dispursed. It's a sad state of affairs yes, and it's unfortunate that fixing the problems isn't a higher priority for the government or the people, but that's just the way it is.
Also, it takes more than just water and sunshine to make a plant, and with every bit of produce sold off a little bit more of the needed nutrients go with it. By not growing food on a plot of land every year it allows the soil to be revitalized every few years, allowing more food to be grown in the long term.
Re:Subsidizing farmers is for national defense (Score:4, Insightful)
World of Final Fantasy?! (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyway...
I have to love the subtle order of magnitude in accounts banned. WoW bans 30,000 accounts out of 6 million, or about 0.5% of total accounts. Assuming Square-Enix banned the same percentage, they have a total of 50,000 accounts.
Now, I know that Square-Enix's MMORPG isn't quite as popular as World of Warcarft, but I'm going to guess that's more of an indication that Blizzard is being more proactive in their banning of cheaters than Square-Enix is.
Re:World of Final Fantasy?! (Score:5, Interesting)
Either that or the percentage of "cheaters" in WoW is greater than in FFXI. I put "cheaters" in quotes because, at least in the case of WoW, the "cheaters" often aren't using any illegal hacks or third party programs -- they are either buying or selling gold, items, or accounts. That doesn't mean that some (or perhaps most) of the farmers in WoW aren't using illegal macros or other 3rd party programs, but my guess is that the majority of people banned didn't use any illegal programs -- they just violated the terms of use in some way.
Also, from the article it looks like Square-Enix focused on the suppliers (these so-called "RMT" groups), while Blizzard went after both the buyers and the sellers.
If you have any question on how aggressive the staff at Square-Enix is, take a look at this blog [blogspot.com] by a GM for the game.
Re:World of Final Fantasy?! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:World of Final Fantasy?! (Score:2)
Federal Reserve (Score:4, Funny)
Visualize banned Greenspan.
Re:Federal Reserve (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Federal Reserve (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Federal Reserve (Score:2)
One sad thing about Bernanke as opposed to Greenspan, Bernanke never embraced a firm currency, he never wrote about the benefits of thrift. All of Bernanke's writings have been about how he believes it's possible to print wealth.
Bernanke's promotion to the head of the Federal Reserve does not bode well. If the policies he's
Re:Federal Reserve (Score:2)
We're supposed to take your commentary seriously when you can't even be bothered to look up the guy's name?
And you also mention that you edit Wikipedia.
Way to go.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Federal Reserve (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes because what we really need is only the rich being able to readily access liquid assets.
Inflation (Score:3, Informative)
The 1930's did have inflation, because the government put in place legal restrictions against people dropping prices to fit the changing market conditions. As a result, there were surpluses which the government then paid (with printed money) farmers to destroy.
If you want to decry the depression of the 1930's, you might
The damage has been done (Score:4, Insightful)
There is no fast fix at this point, but closing accounts is a good start. I hope they keep up the good work, and hope even more to stop seeing ads to buy gold and gil.
Re:The damage has been done (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The damage has been done (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The damage has been done (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem comes in when these casual players somehow think they need/deserve the top tier epic equipment. Yes this stuff costs a shitload of gold, because it's designed for people who put a shitload of time into the game. This stuff is really only required for the most challenging instances though (which are far beyond what a casual player would ever do).
I also find it very amusing how gold buyers are so quick to claim that people who don't buy gold don't have real lives. You are spending real money on make believe money (when you certainly don't need it to play and have fun), yet you have the audacity to insult the social habits of those who don't do this. Judge not lest ye be judged, ya friggin hypocrite.
Re:The damage has been done (Score:5, Insightful)
Want to go do a raid (why you'd want to do this I don't know, but some people obviopusly like it)- if you don't have top level eq, you either won't be allowed on harder raids or you'll end up being a leech.
WoW is a gear based game. If you want to play, you need top end gear. End of story. If you have a life, that means buying it. THis is a flaw in the game, and the gold sellers help to mitigate it. I salute them for it, and Blizzard ought to be damn thankful they exist- they got an extra hundred or so off of me when I would have quit without them. And I'm far from the only one, I know another 2 dozen or so like me.
Re:The damage has been done (Score:3, Insightful)
What I've learned from your posts is that you don't like questing, grinding, or raiding. You like PvP, and you think you should be able to single out just that portion of the game, and be competative at the top levels without playing the
Re:The damage has been done (Score:5, Insightful)
Your absolutely right- I bought gold to make WoW a game thats more appealing to me. I also remodeled my kitchen to make it more appealing to me- is that cheating? And yes, I should be able to play the parts of the game that I want and not play the parts of the game I don't- its a game. Why the fuck should I pay to do something I don't like? Hell, for that matter name any game where you like every aspect of it- I can't. I eventually quit WoW when Blizzard made it impossible to do the parts of the game I did like without doing the parts I don't (I wasn't about to spend 5 hours a week doing MC, which was what it took a good guild then. I like having weekends). SO did the rest of my guild, minus one or two players, so there went a few grand a year for Blizzard. But if there's enough parts of the game I do like, I'm going to go ahead and play it and use whatever means are possible to skip the not fun parts. SO long as doing the fun parts is worth the money, its all good. In this case it was- I spent a few hundred on gold, and enjoyed the game for a decent amount of time. It was a lot cheaper on a per time basis than many other hobbies.
Re:The damage has been done (Score:5, Insightful)
All I'm saying is that if you don't like the way WoW playes, cheating isn't the way to fix it. It's like filling the sandbox with dirt because you like making mud-forts more than sandcastles, it's really best for everyone involved if you just go play in the mud and leave the sandbox alone.
Re:The damage has been done (Score:3, Insightful)
Tetris.
Re:The damage has been done (Score:2)
-Rick
Re:The damage has been done (Score:3, Insightful)
MC or BWL gear isn't bought. It's dropped. If you want to go get it, you do those runs, you don't buy the stuff. In the same light, if you want to do strictly PvP, there are rewards for doing PvP as well.
Want to go do a raid (why you'd want to do this I don't know, but some people obviopusly like it)- i
Re:The damage has been done (Score:4, Informative)
With top end gear thats limited to 4-5 people per server, and is still vastly inferior to whats found in BWL. So you still won't be able to compete. Not that you could get to the top anyway, as you'd need the best gear to have a chance.
Through the standard progressive sequence, if you raid the proper dugneons sequentially, you will get acceptable gear simply from drops or quests. There is simply no need to buy the stuff.
If you don't want to have to do the same dungeon 50 times waiting for a 2% drop? If it gets ninja looted when it does drop? Or if you lose the roll legitamitely? If you want to play with friends who aren't still doing those lower level dungeons?
Gear certainly helps in certain areas, but you in no way need top end gear
Top end gear is absolutely necessary to do PvP. Its absolutely necessary to do high level dungeons (admittedly, you can do lower level ones without it). Get 40 people in greens in MC and have fun- you won't be able to beat more than 1-2 bosses, and that will be with heavy deaths.
Re:The damage has been done (Score:3)
Both are. Early on, when MC was just begining a group with so-so gear but better organization could beat the gap- greens from a few runs of Strat/Schol/UBRS was enough. Now? It doesn't matter if you're better organized if their mages can hit for 2x what yours can and their warrior can 1 shot your mages.
Re:The damage has been done (Score:2)
wrong (Score:2)
I ahve never had a problem getting into a raid without 'top tiered stuff' In fact it is ecpected someone won't be in top tiered stuff. Most top tiered stuff is BoP, so it has zero auction value.
So being a 'leech' isn't an issue.
I ahve another character who does WSG. I routinly beet people(usually undead rogues) who ahve 1000+ GP worth of enchants.
I ahve some blues and greens, and some good enchants(not great) and all the money I got for my enchants and gear
Ummm, wrong (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The damage has been done (Score:2)
First of all, it's not clear that someone who complains about a need for gold is necessarily a gold buyer. -1 points for you.
Second, if you can wo
Re:The damage has been done (Score:2)
Except in this case it is crystal clear, as the post he was replying to freely admitted to buying gold. -10 points
Re:The damage has been done (Score:3, Insightful)
Damn. People don't even RTFGP anymore. A DIRECT quote from the GP: I buy gold and I'm damn proud of it-
Doesn't leave much to assume does it?
Second, if you can work as many hours as you want, or at least you can work extra hours, and you get more gold for working an hour and buying it than you do for farming for an hour, then why shouldn't you buy gold if that works for you? I mean a
Re:The damage has been done (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, farming drives the casual gamer away (Score:2)
I don't know if you ever noticed what happens when mass farming drives the economy in a game bonkers. In a nutshell, it means that you don't EVER get anything, unless you shell out real world money. You won't be able to put enough time into the game to actually buy something with the money you make. The money quite literally inflates faster than you can harvest it. Without farmers, you, the casual player, have a chance to actually some d
Re:Actually, farming drives the casual gamer away (Score:2)
Re:Actually, farming drives the casual gamer away (Score:2)
EVE had a very stable economy for quite a long time. It is still fairly stable. They've had their share of macro-mining and other exploits, but they found a way to deal with it. I don't know if it is still true, but for the time I played it, they managed to come up with en
Re:Actually, farming drives the casual gamer away (Score:2)
Re:Actually, farming drives the casual gamer away (Score:2)
Money ain't everything in EVE. Do you have the skill to actually use that cruiser? If not, you're just throwing away about 2 cents. You'll actually do even less damage than with the frigate, if you can't "use" the cruiser.
I'm not talking about personal skill. I'm talking about your character's skill.
Re:The damage has been done (Score:2)
Ever consider that it's because of the gold farmers and players like you that the prices of equipment on the open market become so inflated?
It's like what happens if a country decide
The damage was done in design phase (Score:2)
I suppose this would be okay if $critter could be made extinct by players killing them, leading to no more loot coming into the system. (since you should get the phiscal corpse of $critter if you wack it)
That would, at best, shift the problem (Score:2)
If a commodity is finite, it is by default more interesting for farmers. So if a species could be driven to extinction, it WILL be driven to extinction. Twice so if what they offer is valuable.
I kill them all, with my farmboys, hoarde the loot, then charge you if you plan to own one of those things. I know for a fact that I'm the ONLY, or at least almost only, one offering it. Let's see... does 500 bucks sound too much?
Yes?
Tough luck. Some idiot next to you is willing to pay it.
Helping the economy by removing illicit capital (Score:4, Insightful)
In short, prices drop, and the "poverty line" is lowered drastically.
Re:Helping the economy by removing illicit capital (Score:2)
That explains all those unguilded rogues! (Score:3, Insightful)
This type of action is largely pointless. They've slowed down the farmers for a little while, but they just level new accounts and go back to it. Meanwhile Blizzard is making more things that require Arcanite, which is probably the single most farmed resource on the entire server. That will just drive prices up and increase the pool of people who say "screw it" and go buy gold from some farming operation, spawning more farmers.
If they actually want to do something about this, they need to reduce the need to buy gold to get anything done in a reasonable timeframe, and/or start banning people who BUY gold. They're the problem anyway.
Re:That explains all those unguilded rogues! (Score:2)
Re:That explains all those unguilded rogues! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:That explains all those unguilded rogues! (Score:4, Insightful)
Time sinks are here, and they're here to stay.
Re:That explains all those unguilded rogues! (Score:2)
The people that buy gold aren't the problem. You pointed to the problem yourself...Blizzard is the problem. Face it, if there weren't a ton of gold sinks in the game and if gold was easier to get, there'd be no market for buying gold from other players. As it is, gold is tedious to come up with and
Re:That explains all those unguilded rogues! (Score:2)
"But if some of the goals weren't so "time sinky" in nature, I bet everybody would just play the game."
And then, after they breezed through every possible quest and goal in the game in under a week, would get bored and go back to whining about how much the game sucks because there's nothing left to do and the economy has been ruined by a flood of cheap goods.
Worse yet, if they have two brain cells to rub together they just might stop playing and take their money somewhere else. That doesn't exactly su
Re:That explains all those unguilded rogues! (Score:2)
I don't mean to suggest that every time sink be removed, but if things like the epic mount quests were more a string of individual quests no less t
Re:That explains all those unguilded rogues! (Score:2)
Anyways, on many of the more established realms, the creation of new characters (for accounts with no characters already on that realm) is closed. When farmer accounts are removed, they are removed forever. I'm sure most of these
Re:That explains all those unguilded rogues! (Score:2)
Re:That explains all those unguilded rogues! (Score:2)
Oh Noes! (Score:5, Funny)
Nice Job, Bliz...
Ebay economy is life or death for your game (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Ebay economy is life or death for your game (Score:2)
Or maybe people can distinguish between reality and the game world, and don't want to spend any more real money on the game than the purchase price, subscription fee, and an expansion or dozen.
Re:Ebay economy is life or death for your game (Score:2)
Well, the big deal is that it hurts gameplay.
1. Its breaks the economy and makes things more expensive. So auction prices get driven up by all this influx of money.
2. It hurts gameplay as a pick up group usually means you'll have a farmer and once a very nice item drops and everyone is typing in "/roll" the farmer will take the item, hearthstone back to the inn, and sell it at auction.
Arguably, this a game design problem. Wi
Governator of Kali-forn-ya (Score:3, Funny)
"You want to be a fahmer? Here, I give you a couple of ache-ers!"
Posturing (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Posturing (Score:4, Informative)
And guess what? As of today, the bot is still out there in the exact same location farming the same group of mobs. Bloody disappointing, let me tell you.
Don't be disappointed: Blizzard is actually being pretty smart about this. Once they catch a bot farming, they don't want to immediately shut it down. That's selecting for resistance.
Instead, they flag the account and monitor who it sends money/items to. Those items are flagged. It spreads like so.
Also, you can develop a profile of the bot, perhaps update Warden (the process that Blizzard uses to scan for bots in the background) to detect the software that's being run. Then, over the course of several weeks the software will spread to other users. Then you can start nailing hundreds of them at a time.
And you also hit them harder. You take more accounts out, you remove more stuff from people who are buying gold/items/etc.
So chances are you'll see that guy operating for a while. Feel good: he's helping Blizzard find the rest of his ilk. Oh, and thank you for reporting him!
Math tells all (Score:5, Interesting)
$ 30 for a WoW account key
$120 for the lost gold itself
$ 50 for 2 people * $1/hr * 25 hours to level up a character
$ 50 for 50 hours to farm the gold
----
$250 total
Obviously the $/hr rate is an overestimate, but the gold exchange rate and cost of a WoW key make up the majority of this estimate. At a minimum the total is $160.
So, this is a net hit to the farming companies of $250 * 30k = $7.5M.
All in all, a sizable blow. Unfortunately it will really only hurt the solo farmers, the guys doing it for a few extra bucks from their home. For a very large farming operation this is only a setback of about 2 weeks (100 man hours per banning) in terms of profit.
Re:Math tells all (Score:4, Insightful)
I think Blizzard's real motive here however, is clear.
30k accounts x 30 dollars per CD key (I thought it was more, but I'll use your numbers) = 900,000 dollars increased revenue in Blizzard's pocket. Not to mention any additional time purchased on said accounts that was taken (IE, if they were paid 6 months in advance, that's up to 80 additional dollars per account). Why do they make extra money on this? Because the farmers will be back. As long as there is a demand, and the design of nearly any MMO creates the demand, certainly WOW does.
Now think about it - if you could do something that would provide a great PR booster, and make nearly a million dollars doing it, why not?
Re:Math tells all (Score:2)
As to motive, you are of course right.
Re:Math tells all (Score:2)
Re:Math tells all (Score:2)
Re:Math tells all (Score:3, Informative)
25 hours? The record to 60 as best as I know is 6 days
Even the power leveling places will take 2wks or so 1-60.
Here is my problem... (Score:2)
Now, before anyone says I'm all for gold farmers I am definitely NOT. They cause me nothing but grief when I'm farm, errr, trying to acquire certain patterns or items needed for my character(s)
Re:Here is my problem... (Score:2)
I'm sure they didn't ban exactly those amounts but it is close enough to be a weird coincidence since, like I said, you can buy epic mounts for less with discounts.
I just found it an interesting coincidence is all. Personally, I'm glad they've banned farmers and are continui
Auto Article Generator (Score:2)
A market system that will kill the harvesters: (Score:3, Interesting)
Downside: You won't be able to chuck old/unneeded items on the ground or at your friends, only delete them or liquidate them.
Upside: Harvesting gold loses its profitability in the real world, because virtual items can't be sold for real money. Thus harvesting is greatly reduced.
I don't know how other Blizzard players feel about this, but I'd gladly trade my ability to toss items at my friends for a virtual economy that might not fall apart immidiately.
P.S. Come to think of it, the game might be more enjoyable simply by merit of not ever recieving hand-me-down items. The sense of achievement and respect among kickass characters would be all the greater because it will be known that everyone arrived at virtual greatness through their own ingenuity and perseverance.
Re:A market system that will kill the harvesters: (Score:2)
Another idea is to impose a sliding scale on auction charges, so the more you sell, the more you are charged by the auction house, this should curb farmers somewhat and not effect most of the other players as most players are casual.
Dup (Score:2)
If you really want to get rid of farmers... (Score:2)
Maybe even have the prices fluctuate slightly with supply/demand. If demand is high, there obviously aren't enought farmers, so the merchant will pay a little mor
Gold farming can't be fixed by bans (Score:2)
The truth of the matter is gold farming is going to continue (just like the drug trade and spam) until some fundemental problems with the core system is resolved.
When money is involved, people will go out of their way to get that money regardless of the law and the rules of the land. No matter how many farmers you ban, IPs you block, or drug dealers you throw into jail, people are going to be doing this.
So how
Re:Gold farming can't be fixed by bans (Score:2)
The only way to limit gold farming is to not allow people to exchange gold.
Second to that, only allow people to exchange small amounts of gold.
For example, cap the high end price something can be sold for, based on the item.
Farming shows a much bigger problem (Score:5, Interesting)
"Hold a second. That's like saying I buy Castlevania and then hire someone to play it for me so I can do the end boss fight. That makes no sense."
Yup. We're getting closer to the problem. There are actually people who PAY money to NOT HAVE TO play the game. Now, when a game has parts that are so "boring" that it's no fun to do them, the problem starts with the game, not the farmer. The farmer is actually more or less an effect. Not the cause (he's the cause for other problems with the game, we're getting into a circle here).
In a good game, it should not even cross your mind that you want to bypass parts of it. It should be interesting to do just that what is bypassed.
It's not only a problem of WoW, that problem can be found in almost all MMORPGs. And a MMORPG that solves it will certainly sell well. But as long as there are tedious and boring parts in a MMORPG, farmers will exist.
Re:Farming shows a much bigger problem (Score:4, Interesting)
What you're suggesting about a "perfect" MMO is impossible. Why? Because people always want to have the best character, if for no other reason than to buy a level 60 warrior in full epic gear, then go and Heroic Strike someone in PvP with their Ashkandi. (Yeah, HS. I'm sure you've encountered these people too.) And this segment will be there whether your leveling content is absolutely breathtaking or a mindless grind.
Re:Farming shows a much bigger problem (Score:5, Insightful)
A) Spend a combination of 40 hours playing a game killing creatures to buy a sword so you can continue following the game's story line, quests, and continue playing with others
B) Pay some dude $20 and buy the sword so you can continue following the game's story line, quests, and continue playing with others.
I think the worst example of poor game design was FFXI. In it you had crafting skills which required pieces from all over the world. You could literally spend an entire weekend aquiring the materials and spend 2 hours watching the materials critically fail and now you are out the items you spent 40 hours worth of WORK in addition to into and haven't gained much progression for your character. MMO's are all about playing with other people and advancing, yet developers purposefully create time boring sinks which cause people to rely on farmers in order to get back to the fun parts of the game.
In my opinion if an MMO came out that modeled Diablo or FF in the sense that would allow soloability (the option of playing with others is better than having to play with others - see WoW's user base) as well as by the time you reached max level you're character could easily afford anything he wanted or needed without having to "farm" you'd have a solid game and one that could potential be the end all be all of MMO's.
But unfortunately no one wants to make one. All the companies hire designers who enjoy forcing people to play variable classes in certain ways, farm for greater amounts of time than playing with others, and insist on making MMO's more tedious and annoying. Why? Because the longer it takes you to achieve your goals, the longer you have to pay them a monthly fee.
Re:Farming shows a much bigger problem (Score:3, Insightful)
During my time in EQ, I bought plat so that I could buy things for friends who were starting the game. Eventua
Re:Farming shows a much bigger problem (Score:2)
Seriously now. What really puzzles and kinda amuses me is that people are willing to pay real money so they have "the best" equipment in the game, when it is certain that with the next patch, the next expansion, the next main boss some equipment will come into the game that makes your so expensive "best" equipment look like beggar's rags.
So pay again? I'd feel stupid, to be honest.
How gold-farming works (Score:3, Informative)
On Gold and Gollums, an overview into the Gold Farming and Selling Industry [metblogs.com]
Sure, it's interesting that there are large, organized networks that employ legions of people willing to spend their days harvesting gold, but what really strikes me is the degree to which gold farmers manipulate a server's entire economy.
wow check out the ratios (Score:2, Insightful)
30,000 accounts on wow, removed 30 million gold, thats an average of about 1000 gold per account
on FF its 250 accounts and 250 billion gil?
thats an average of about 1billion gil per account?
holy crap
For Those Who Don't Understand (Score:2, Informative)
Re:RMT? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:RMT? (Score:3, Insightful)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmer_(gaming) [wikipedia.org]
Re:Ban them faster! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Ban them faster! (Score:2, Funny)
I could help you with this VR money problem, but unfortunatelly I don't seem to be able to log back to my farm.
Re:You want to stop gold farming? (Score:2)
You can't fight economics.
Re:You want to stop gold farming? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't understand... (Score:3, Insightful)
"The last thing I want to do after working all day doing borning work is to come home and end up playing a borning game where I have to spend a 100+ hours to get a half way decent character that can do somewhat fun quests."
I think the part that you don't understand is that there are "somewhat fun quests" available right from the start, and more become available as you progress through the game. It's not fifty levels of beating up rats followed by a sudden transition to some mystical, enjoyable "end-game
Re:Don't understand... (Score:2)
For someone who makes a lot of money but doesn't have all that much time and wants to keep up with their online friends (or move to the server where they are playing), spending a couple of hundred bucks to save the trouble of repeating conten
LevelingEnd Game (Score:2)
Re:Don't understand... (Score:2)
Re:dey tek er jebs!!! (Score:2)
They can personally farm all day long -- it is when they cheat or go on ebay to sell it that they get in trouble.