Cellular Companies Join to Improve Linux 95
TrdrJoe writes to mention a Reuters article about a group of cell companies joining up to develop an open-source Linux-based OS for many of the market's phones. From the article: "Linux software currently occupies only a tiny proportion of the mobile market, mainly in China, while market leaders Symbian and Microsoft dominate the space. The attraction of Linux for handset makers is that as the code is not owned by any one company competition is likely to be fierce between firms supplying ready-to-use embedded Linux versions for phones, driving down fees, whereas Symbian and Microsoft can keep prices higher."
Finally (Score:1, Insightful)
Yeah, IF... (Score:2)
...they don't lock up the hardware so that only "approved" versions will run, like TiVo. In that case, what's the point?
Re:Yeah, IF... (Score:1)
*Reboots to XP to sync WM5 again*
ps -ax (Score:1)
Watch. (Score:2)
A) The ability to manipulate the phone hardware
B) The ability to control how your phone interacts with the network
C) The ability to do anything useful with Bluetooth or any of the other peripherals
D) The ability to anything cool at all, really.
Wireless companies are dead-set against locking the consumer out of decisions on how hardware which lives on their networks operates.
This isn't going to be nearly as great as you think it will. Mark my words.
Re:Watch. (Score:2)
Re:Watch. (Score:2)
With a phone though, unless it's a PDA with the phone added in, I really don't see myself going through the motions of
And that's assuming I can even enter my password...
Besides, most of the smartphones already have ssh clients (the palm h
Re:Watch. (Score:2)
Re:Watch. (Score:2)
I'm just pretty certain that putting Linux on these things, whatever it does, won't give any more control to the user.
Re:Watch. (Score:1)
Mobile companies' nightmare coming true.
But, current problem is that mobile internet access is VERY expensive. About closest thing you can get for free messaging is Blackberry.
Things might change when UMTS networks become mainstream.
Providers will probably blacklist ICQ, AIM, MSN etc. servers, but it doesn't stop geeks from setting their own for private networks.
Heh (Score:1, Insightful)
MS Smart Phones (Score:1)
Re:Heh (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Heh (Score:1)
I really expect Intel to finally produce something worth of respect and get into the
Analogy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Analogy (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Analogy (Score:2)
to the escaped mental patients.
Trying to use my formerly AT&T, now cingular phone on a cingular network has shown me just how disfunctional cellphone companies are.
Re:Analogy (Score:5, Funny)
Got Debt? [debtishell.com]
Re:Analogy (Score:2)
Re:Analogy (Score:2)
Re:Analogy (Score:1)
. . . "Gang of Escaped Lobotomy Patients" is to "Improve MIT".
I think they call those "alumni."
Re:Analogy (Score:2)
Can an infinite number of Cell Companies having an infinite amount of time eventually improve Linux?
So true... (Score:1)
Free applications locked out? (Score:5, Interesting)
In North America, the vast majority of mobile phones are subsidized by a network operator. Developers of operating systems for mobile phones generally allow a network operator to use lockout features to control what software may be run on a subsidized phone. Such systems include "Get It Now" in implementations of BREW on phones sold by Verizon and "Mobile2Market" in Windows Mobile smartphones. The features exist purportedly to improve the "security" of a network, but in practice, network operators use them in order to require that all applications be purchased at jacked-up prices from a network operator's online store, and so that free software or other freeware self-published by a hobbyist developer (who generally cannot afford the code signing fees) cannot compete.
Will this Linux OS for mobile phones support the same kind of lockout, where the hardware verifies an approved kernel and the kernel verifies approved apps?
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:5, Informative)
Probably, but at the same time, it'll be linux-based, which means it's more hackable.
With that said; You can unlock the locked features on damned near any cellular telephone. I'm only particularly familiar with Motorola but on their phones there's files called "SEEM" files that are the config files. There's numerous SEEM editors, and guides to SEEM editing, sufficient to unlock full functionality on pretty much any phone. They can be created by examining the differences between provider-altered SEEM files, and the SEEM files on a Motorola-retail phone, or by using Motorola PST (the official service software, available ALL OVER the web) to modify phones with specific features, then comparing SEEM files.
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:2)
Speaking of which, are there any that don't require Windows? I'd like to hack my RAZR, but I'm a Mac and Linux guy...
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:2)
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:2)
Wow, thanks for the info! Just one more quick question: what's the quickest/easiest way to get Java applications or games onto the phone, and where can I get them (aside from paying Cingular's exhorbitant prices, of course!)? And are there any good Free (as in GPL) apps for it?
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:2)
You bought a Sony phone and you're complaining? You should be strung up by your tendons. Some manufacturers are simply less odious than others, and sony is pretty stinky. I feel especially sorry for anyone who bought their walkman mp3 player phone, that has a whopping 256MB flash in it.
Even on Motorola phones there are files that can't be deleted without flashing, but at least it can be done. You can also hack Samsung and Nokia phones well. Why would anyone buy anything else unless it was some kind of h
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:2)
Well, I agree that the design and UI for all Nokia phones I've ever seen has been 100% pure crap. That doesn't change the fact that there's scads of easily available hacking tools fo
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:2)
Sony Ericsson phones are technically ERICSSON phones (just have a bit of sony marketing).
SonyEricsson is a joint ventur between Sony, and ERicsson, Headquatered in London UK. Sony provides the money, Ericsson provides the tech.
This actually shows up a lot. SE phones (even the walkman brands) are the only "Sony" named Music Players, that does NOT support ATRAC, but does support MP3s, MP4 (AAC). and PROVIDED the phoen has not been buggered by Vodafone, et al, they are actually quite open in design.
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:2)
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:2)
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:1)
I bought a Motorola phone a few weeks ago, and subsequently found out about all the hacking stuff available. (I'd really like to increase the volume and enable the sound recorder.) Unfortunately, I couldn't get it to work. Some references said it might be necessary to install PSTools to get the drivers. But the PSTools software you refer to as "all over the web" I could only find at a
I downloaded it and thought about it. Then I thought about it
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:2)
Your neurosis notwithstanding, it's extremely easy.
You actually don't need the Motorola PST software to make most changes to your phone. You only need to be able to put the phone in the PST mode, and use the PST drivers.
There's two ways to accomplish this. One is by using PST, with the PST drivers. This is not legal.
The other way is to download the Motorol
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:2)
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:2)
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:1)
If you aren't familiar with them you can check out a post in my blog I made about them a month ago.
http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2006/05/javao
cheers,
Dean
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:1)
So how do I convince mobile phone network operators 1. to offer phones that use the Savaje operating system and 2. not to lock the phones to run only apps signed by a corporation?
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:1)
Re:Free applications locked out? (Score:1)
Unless I live in the United States. As I understand it, the only unlocked phones available for sale in the United States are used phones being resold on the gray market. And can I buy a SIM on a prepaid plan separately from a phone?
this means little to consumers (Score:3, Insightful)
Am I going to have better features and/or functionality because linux is running instead of Microsoft phone OS? Again, highly doubtful. Maybe it'll be a little easier to be extensible or perhaps more flexibly upgraded but really, on a cell phone is this a big deal?
From what I can gather, the only ones who really benefit from linux on the handsets are shareholders of the manufacturers themselves, as they'll be able to save $x on y phones every year, thus adding to their bottom line.
Meh, this is a nonissue. The headline should have been, "Cellular Companies Look For Ways To Save Money".
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:5, Informative)
I think it'll be a bigger deal that they will be more stable. I have a PDA running Windows Mobile 2003 (I know, not the latest... but let me continue) and it crashes pretty frequently, locks up more frequently than that, and twice has crashed out and lost all my data. Well, it would have, but after the first time it happened I configured an automated nightly backup to my SD card.
This stuff is moderately acceptable on a PDA, except for losing all my data, which is just plain unacceptable. (I have all updates applied, just in case you were wondering.) It's totally unacceptable on a phone, and I've heard time and time again that the phone version of the software is no faster nor more reliable.
Even my Motorola phones using official software sometimes have to be manually cold-rebooted :P
WM2003 (Score:2)
That's one of the 'big' features of WM5; persistent storage (that is, writing out data to flash memory)
Re:WM2003 (Score:4, Informative)
Well, it's probably because that's not my fucking problem. I haven't yet run out the battery in the device, which also has a backup battery for maintaining memory.
What actually happened, contrary to your assumption that I am a fucking retard, is that application crashes caused the device to somehow mysteriously reset itself to factory settings, eliminating all of my data from the internal storage, including installed programs. After it happened the first time I discovered WHY compaq bundled an "iPAQ Backup" application, and started using it. The first time it was an application crash in SPB AirIslands Demo that caused the OS to crash and, as I mentioned caused it to reset. The second time it was actually iPAQ Backup that crashed... thankfully, right after backing up my system.
An application should never be able to take down the OS. This happens all the time. The OS crashing should never be able to delete all your data from internal storage and restore your device to factory settings. I've only EVER seen this happen on my iPAQ.
Re:WM2003 (Score:1)
Re:WM2003 (Score:2)
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:1)
motorola appears to have absolutely no interest in fixing this bug, btw. the way i see it, gnu/linux and other *nix operating systems are more stable than most produ
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:4, Informative)
Linux is a pro consumer product. This is a consumer win.
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:1)
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:1)
In this case, who is the consumer? The manufacturers of mobile phones.
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:2)
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:1)
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:2)
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:1)
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:2)
I'm guessing that a more open OS such as linux would be a nice way around this. Also, I'm guessing that linux on a treo 650 would be much better than Palm OS. Currently my shiny new 700p has already
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:1)
> manufacturers themselves
In some cases the handset vendors (or their linux OS vendors) contribute improvements back to the community, to the betterment of a variety of linux-based consumer electronics devices (such as improvements in XScale PXA27x platform support that largely resulted from Motorola's use of that platform for various phones).
Re:this means little to consumers (Score:1)
Symbian is pretty open from a developer's point of view and bigger partners can get access to the source code for the kernel and servers (without the GUI or all the device drivers because these belong to the manufacturers).
From what I can see this openness is not entirely pleasing to mobile phone operators whose thirst for "Average Revenue per User" or ARPU is unquenchable - they would rather like to monopol
So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:2)
the real question... (Score:1)
Oh, wait, um....
Mesh network? (Score:1)
Seen this in action (Score:1)
Re:Seen this in action (Score:1)
Dean
http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2006/05/javao
Just one question (Score:3, Informative)
(A week or so ago I had to install the software for a Motorola cameraphone onto a friend's [Windows] laptop... didn't work at all, and what was really annoying was that there wasn't any Linux program available that supported his specific phone. Probably wouldn't matter for him, but it really annoys me because there wasn't any way to – even temporarily – set up a Linux system to download the pictures that were on there so we could at least get that done, and worry about the rest later... sorry if it doesn't make any sense to anyone else
Re:Just one question (Score:2)
Re:Just one question (Score:2)
Re:Just one question (Score:1)
Re:Just one question (Score:1)
i recently got stuck helping a friend with a dictation device with a built in usb slave port. anyway, she'd installed the software (windows) to her machine, and the software just kept crashing and losing her data. so i thought, well sur
This is what open source software can be (Score:1)
"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas." -George Bernard Shaw
These companies are combining their resorces to make a linux distro for the
Gates Won't Like It (Score:3, Insightful)
...therefore, I'm all for it! Well, just kidding, I'm sure he's not a bad guy, but really, who wants to use Windows on their cell phone, after putting up with it on their desktop for so long? Microsoft has done a great job of marketing "Windows Mobile" as if it were really just a scaled down "mobile OS" version of Windows XP, through its interface skin and marketing materials (although any reasonable person like Mac user little ole me won't like it). The need for a robust OS that is user-friendly enough to be used on phones and other devices is so overdue that people like myself are practically ready to write it themselves.
Of course, this doesn't make me a fan of cell phone companies, I think they're the worst when it comes to thinking of users' needs. Now if Linux Mobile [sourceforge.net] were just a little bit farther along, we'd be all set...
Linux/Qtopia already runs on a few Phones..... (Score:2, Informative)
see:
http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9996556326.html [linuxdevices.com]
You can even test drive Qtopia via a LiveCD.
Download here (114MByte):
http://qtopia.net/iso/qtopia-4.1.1-2006_04-20_111
Simon.
reliability (Score:2)
i am not sure if linux will be helping but i hope they will get reliability right. my phone now locks from time to time and needs rebooting. there are times when applications crash (though a reboot is not needed.) but it is quite annoyin
Open Source firmware (Score:1)
Remember Tivo (Score:1)
This was expected (Score:1)
They seem to be doing the right thing. Founding the organization which will be responsible for developing the system they will all use. Cohesion and standardization