Web Development - A Tough Job to Have? 112
frank_tudor asks: "Hey everyone, I have been a web developer for seven years now. I have had some moments of success, but mostly down moments with low pay, less than stable work, and unemployment. I love what I do and I don't mind the trends and technology changes that come with web development, but I am getting older and have been mulling a change in professions. But to what? I an wondering what those of you on Slashdot think about web development as a job, and what professions they think would be both stable and challenging to consider?"
Work for a hospital (Score:4, Interesting)
Bottom line, it's a stable, well-paid, and interesting place to work.
work for someone (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't have a solution for you, I'm now working in an electronic engineering company doing the software side of things and am in way over my head as far as the electronics is concerned, but I'm learning and am paid well- its a great job that's not on contract. Don't do contracts unless you've got lots of customers and other people to help you, otherwise you just get all the headache managing things- there are in fact advantages to working for someone else, as much as I like being on my own.
Web Developer (Score:5, Interesting)
Not everyone wants to be involved with management, but if you enjoy web app work, perhaps you'd enjoy trying managing others and using your experience to help them.
Re:As a Web Developer ... (Score:2, Interesting)
Amen to that brother.
I just had the same experience again the other day. The "CEO" turns to me and says, "So for tha past week you've only worked on the login page?"
I just wanted to scream him down.
Having a bad streak of luck myself right now (Score:4, Interesting)
If you don't like switching the technology every odd month - then don't. It's that simple. There are countless OSS solutions out there, one better than the next. Pick one server side and one client side and stick to that. Zope/XUL, Typo3/Flash Java/Java, OpenLaszlo, Joomla/Ajax, Symfony/XHTML
I know a webdesigner who does EVERYTHING with ExpressionEngine (a commercial PHP/MySQL Weblog/CMS that's popular amoung designers). It uses some hairbrained Template Level PL for small logic actions. Some more webappy things he does are a total mess and totally destroy the concept of MVC but all the websites he puts out are top notch and easy to operate for his customers. He knows his way around that CMS and customers don't question him.
After years of exploring all the neat and fun OSS webtechnologies and after 3 years freelancing in the field I'm slowly growing old and will bite the bullet and start to focus. Allready I've done a few jobs with Joomla. Since I'm building a larger PHP webapp just now I'll probably chose a PHP CMS to dive into. And since I'm in germany it probably will be Typo3 - allthough I hate the beast.
Bottom line: Specialize and focus. That will bring you further than eternally trying to be the jack of all trades.
Re:Heh (Score:3, Interesting)
I definitly wouldn't recommend that anyone try to be both a frontend and backend expert. I've found tjat good HTML/CSS design and programming are not skill sets with much overlap. Very few people can do both really well. I would suggest that anyone serious about making solid web apps team up with someone (or many people) to complete a well rounded set. You many think "I am a Perl/PHP/Ruby/Java whiz, I can do HTML good enough..." No. You can't. Don't even try. Find a good framework with proper MVC model so you can decouple the front end from the backend and find someone (or a whole team) to complement your skills.
Although Javascript is a bit of an exception to the front-end/backend separation. As a programmer, you'll probably want to take on a lot of Javascript to help the designer.
I can't tell you how much my web development job satisfaction improved once I gave up on trying to be an XHTML/CSS expert. Now I can just ask the designer, "Do you have the layout done yet so i can hook it into the backend?"
-matthew
Re:As a Web Developer ... (Score:1, Interesting)
I would have brought out my tablet PC and drawn a diagram, grade school level, of how things like that are important to a company. And then subsequently fired for being "difficult".
That's why whenever someone who's not my boss has a problem with my work, I smile my fake ass smile and say "Well you'd have to talk to my manager about that."
Glad to be out (Score:3, Interesting)
For example, I took a job as a system administrator for a large ecommerce company, they had an emergency one day where some perl cgi scripts broke, the developers were flapping around trying to figure it out, I suggested a solution that worked, from that day one I also had web development tasks, when I finished that job my offical title was: IT Manager/Network Manager/Website Manager.
Second time this happen, unix sys admin for DoD couldn't be further from web development right? Wrong, since being in this job I would estimate about 60% of my time is spent doing tasks related to web development, (I don't mind so much here since the development is very much backend stuff for internal application so less pressure), but it all started because a midlevel manager noticed on my resume when doing some reviews that I had experience in that field.
I swear next job I am omiting all references to web development from my resume.
Re:Work for a hospital (Score:3, Interesting)
I work at a much less lucrative non-profit than the poster and the worst I can say about my job is that the pay check is not as large as many of my peers. On the other side, the perks are great. My bosses respect me and they look at decisions in terms of effectiveness and not so much in how much of a profit it will turn. (The difference between the two is subtle but important.) I can freely experiment in a lot of the technologies since the cost of entry into many of them is free.
I get a lot of satisfaction out of my work knowing that any process that I can fascilitate and reduce the time we spend on it helps somebody in the community. And most of the rest of the employees here think I'm a savior for bringing technology into a world that has skimped on it out of a perceived necessity.
The only legitimate complaint I have is in the area of conpensation and even that isn't terrible.
Re:As a Web Developer ... (Score:3, Interesting)
I could not imagine going back to work as a developer. I make twice as much as a first year associate in a major firm than I was as a senior developer working on some major web sites. While I probably work longer hours here (though not much longer, to be honest), I am treated much better, in terms of benefits, perks, respect etc. At least where I am (a top 50 NYC law firm), there are no stupid partners who lucked into their positions. The result is that as long as you are good and can get along with others, you will succeed because it is directly in their interest in having smart people working for them. When dealing with miserable middle managers whose lives suck and who seem to just want to be dicks for the hell of it, it doesn't always work out that way. To top it off, the work I do is far more intersting than the upteenth iteration of some crappy flash interface or search engine.
My advice to everyone in web development: get out.
Re:As a Web Developer ... (Score:2, Interesting)
- I hate constantly educating clients about how things work
- I hate arguing over comments like "this really should not take this long to do, it's a simple change, all you have to do is move this HTML table". Go and do it yourself then!
- I hate clients who constantly try to sneak in free changes here and there in their lists of comments.
- All projects are different, yet they are all composed of same modules. They may look different, and have slightly different features, but in the end it's all same.
- I hate sales for promising things that cannot be delivered.
I've been working for the same company for last 6 years, but for last 4 years I've been getting more and more into network/systems administration and I love it. Now I manage a data center of 40 servers and doing this is a lot more fun than coding and dealing with stupid clients.I still get suckered into doing coding every once in a while but it's mainly maintenance/changes for projects I worked on over the years, and I am the only one who can do it fast, but that will go away eventually.
In relation to the original topic:
It is true that there are a lot of jobs out there for web developers, and since more and more applications are now web-based, I am sure there will be even more work out there. So if you are happy being a web developer, stay in this field.
just my 2 cents
Re:Frank, there's something wrong. (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm well-versed in a lot of development areas. While I can't say I'm an expert in any field, I know my stuff well and consider myself to be a lot above the average level of web developers and "web developers". For example, I know how to develop in both PHP and
But I'm out of luck and I don't know anyone.
Why, you ask? Most companies I've done work for have gone bankrupt. They're not present on the web anymore, and I have nothing to show to potential clients. In some cases, I've done intranet web apps; again, that's not something I can show, and I've even signed contracts preventing me from disclosing any information (including screenshots). So in the end, my portfolio is virtually blank. It's a vicious circle; if you don't have anything to show, nobody wants you, and if you have fifty sites (no matter how crap they are), you're the next big thing and you'll get the job. That, or someone will insist on Flash with music and things flying around the screen... I don't do that. Whether to label it as unfortunate or not, I don't know... Oh, twice I haven't even been paid for a couple of projects I was working on for 5 and 7 months full-time, respectively.
Another problem is that I live in a poor country. Demand for good web developers here is still almost non-existant. I'm now working for a government institution just so I can pay the bills and have something to eat, and I'm the lowest-paid person in the entire department, despite being the most competent one (my salary is about 5% above the country average, BTW). I have to do things their way, fight inherited undocumented crap code and do everything on my own. Again, I have signed a contract that will prevent me from disclosing information one day. I can't even keep up with modern web development anymore. The apps I do have to be colour and pixel-perfect compatible in layout with the old ones, because they were designed by some big-shot that could sue them if he finds out, I kid you not. Oh, one other fun thing is that the institution outsources a bit of development to a software powerhouse with connections amongst the politicians, and these guys tend to produce apps that need 48-72 hours to spit out a weekly report because there are no indexes in their databases, but there are nested cursors in all queries. They get paid twenty (20) times more than me for an hour of work - and that's just maintenance. For the creation of the apps, they usually get paid roughly 250 times more than I earn each month.
I seriously hope Frank is not there yet, but I'm *this* close to saying "fuck it all", quitting this career and getting a job as a supermarket clerk. I can't do (web) development anymore, I'm burned-out.
Frank, best of luck... I hope it works out for you better than it does for me.
You are confused. (Score:1, Interesting)
This is why some incredibly incompetant people can have more work than they can handle, while some people who are amazing at what they do can't find work at all. Its not about the quality of your work, its about the impression your clients got from you. If you made a shitty, exploit riddled pile of crap for them, but were always giving them status updates, working with them to make everything look and feel the way they want, and met your deadlines, then they will love you and recommend you to all their friends. They have no way to know that your work was garbage, just that it looks the way they want.