SCEA President Hypes PS3 Shelf Life Over 360 139
kukyfrope writes "Sony Computer Entertainment America President Kaz Hirai recently talked to San Jose Mercury News about their upcoming console. His argument is that, by waiting to deliver Blu-Ray and performance hardware, even at a high price, the PS3 will be in greater standing than the Xbox 360 in the long run. Hirai also takes a cop-out on the amount of hype surrounding the PS3 hardware performance saying, 'It's all about the games. We all know that [...] This is a console that is here for the long haul and is not on a five-year cycle. Microsoft is coming out with an HD-DVD accessory for HD movies as an add-on only a year after they launched: that is exactly the kind of thing we don't want to do.'"
omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:3, Insightful)
In six years, Blu-Ray will either still be a niche market, in which case the average person won't care, or it'll be popular enough that you can get players cheaper than the PS3.
As for the PS3 being more powerful, even if true, it won't matter. Did anyone in the history of gaming say "I'm getting Xbox because it's more powerful than PS2"? Well, somebody probably did, but not many.
As to which will have better games, guess we'll just have to wait and see which one attracts more devs in the long run.
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:4, Insightful)
MS won't ship 360 games on HD-DVD for precisely the reason you give. And you're right that people won't dismiss 360 games because they're on DVD, but that's not really the point Sony's trying to drive home here. They're trying to push the idea that the PS3 is more "future-proof" than the 360 because of Blu-Ray. They're kind of right and kind of wrong.
They're right in the sense that, yes, games continue to expand in size, so if the PS3 sticks around for more than 5 years then Blu-Ray's capacity advantage may shine.
Where the theory goes wrong, however, is that it focuses entirely on the storage medium and ignores the rest of the system. If MS releases a followup console 4-5 years from now while Sony continues pushing the PS3, the new Xbox 1,440 (going with "720" is just boring) will, presumably, have a much more capable graphics solution and much greater processing capability (eight cores all running at 6GHz, or more). It would also contain a high-capacity disc drive which, by that time, will cost as much as a fast DVD-ROM drive does today. As a bonus, if the PS3 turns out to be successful at its high price point, MS will be able to charge more for their next console without setting a new pricing precedent.
All that said, if folks actually believe that Sony won't have a PS4 hitting the market in 5-6 years, then they're more gullible than I think.
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:2)
We could still hope, though! Maybe if we're really lucky, the PS3 will suck bad enough to kill the company.
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:1)
I know Nintendo could always make a huge comeback with Wii if Sony drops out. But if it comes down to Nintendo vs microsoft there's more than a good possibility that microsoft could and would just spending them out of the market or at least into a distant second supported solely by the big time Nintendo fans.
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:2)
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:1, Troll)
Repeat after me: Sony sold over 100m units each of the PS1 and PS2. They didn't do that because of hype, they did that because those consoles weren't dedicated Halo/Madden players (XBox), and had more of a library than Zelda/Mario/Metroid.
If you look at the great gaming libraries (post NES), the PS1's and PS2's are maybe 2 and 3, with the ordering depending on your taste. The SNES's, of course, is first, followed by either the
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:3, Insightful)
You've got kind of a chicken and egg problem there. Does the Playstation line have such a deep lineup because of its large installed base, or vice versa? It's probably the former (the PS2's launch library was pretty sad, but it sold a lot anyway), but it's pretty much impossible to know for sure.
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:2)
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:1, Troll)
I doubt people would be saying "Xbox 360 sucks because its games are on DVD!"
It sucks fitting games onto a DVD for the PS2! The large streaming worlds we are making are taxing the DVD as it is. With the absolutely massive texture sizes needed for HD and the expectation of streaming worlds for all games, the XBox360 is going to look like a cripple once the PS3 gets rolling. Possibly the XBox360 will have multiple-dvd games and that is how it will cope. However the data-read rate of a DVD is going to
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:1)
It's more than capable.
"The PS3 is also not going to do half of the promised "interactive" features of a standard Blu-ray player."
Why not? It's more than capable.
"Blu-ray is necessary for all the old-school MPEG2 videos you'll see on PS3 RPGs."
I guess that all the main memory will be used by "old school PCM audio" because the cell isn't powerful enough to decode perceptual acoustic audio and compressed wavelet video
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:1)
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:2)
surely yet another sign that the xbox PR department has effectively infiltrated forums all over the net spreading FUD.
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:3, Interesting)
Not really, especially if you can upgrade current Xbox360's with the HD-DVD drive to play those games. I don't suggest MS do it this year or 2007, but even if you had to buy the HD-DVD attachment at $200 2-3 years from now to pla
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:2)
On the other hand, like you said it's a good bet that no game within the next 2 years will use that extra Bluray space for anything other than "HI Def FMV". I mean It h
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:1)
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:1)
Nonsense. Name one game console media add-on that has ever caught on in the U.S. market.
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:2)
There are lots of *good* games today for which a straightforward "next-gen" port could not be done within the confines of DVD. Star Ocean is a perfectly good game, FMV or not, and you'd need 3-4
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:1)
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:1)
Microsoft will ship games on HD-DVD (Score:2)
They are wrong.
Microsoft will be forced to allow use of the HD-DVD drive for storage by angry game manufacturers. They will rationalize it by saying that you can always buy an external HD-DVD drive, and it will appeal to Microsoft's desire to push that format.
Multiple discs are not really a good answer for a game maker because they have a fundamental problem - inherant linearilty of content. Once yo
Definitely *no* games on HD-DVD (Score:3, Interesting)
Hello again.
People like to think that Microsoft will not deliver games on HD-DVD, because it would anger current owners.
Microsoft have repeatedly confirmed [eurogamer.net] that they will not ship games on HD-DVD.
No-one wants multi-disc games, publishers as well as gamers, but they simply won't be necessary, even on DVD, for the vast majority of games.
What takes up the most space on a disc? Not gameplay code, or even textures. It's cut-scene video - and there's many ways of reducing that. Faster, multicore CPUs can
Re:Definitely *no* games on HD-DVD (Score:2)
Re:Definitely *no* games on HD-DVD (Score:2)
HDR textures can take up something around 4x the space
Only when uncompressed, and even then they need take no more than 2x. There are numerous fast and efficent representation method for stored HDR images that take up little more than non-HDR. This is something I have a lot of experience in. Oh, and less texture compression usually means slower loading, as there is more data to fetch from disc. Better to encode it tighter, get it off the disc quicker, then decompress it in the background with a spare CPU
Re:Definitely *no* games on HD-DVD (Score:2)
I've spent the last 10 years writing commercial software for cinematic effects, actually.
And you? You don't have even the credibility of a name. Come back when you've got something more than unimaginative insults to offer.
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:5, Informative)
No, it really didn't. Admittedly, the only Xbox size I could find was a PAL version, but it was a whopping 2.85 GB. The NTSC version of GTA III was a whopping 733MB (even the Dreamcast GD-ROM could have accommodated that on one disc) and GTA:VC was 1.20GB. Relatively few games even made it past the first layer of DVD. It's no wonder that Microsoft didn't feel a next-gen disc drive was necessary for the 360.
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:1)
Yes, it really did. I just popped the PS2 GTA:SA disc into my computer and the files totalled 4.15GB. That's basically the entire first layer.
Given that the delay involved in switching layers makes streaming across the layer barrier completely impractical, dual-layer DVDs aren't viable solutions for certain types of games. Then consider that texture data will need to be 6 times la
Re:omg teh ps3 pwnzorz (Score:1)
The PC gaming market isn't really dying, at least not in Europe. Its strength is the low barrier to entry which is why you see more indie games on the PC shelves. To get an indie game on a console you have to make a PC version and have it sell, or at least reach a big audience. Many (all?) of the indie games on XBox Live Arcade were released on the PC first.
Own worst enemy... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Own worst enemy... (Score:2)
I'm also getting so tired of informed people (i.e. Sony flack) bashing HD-DVD because *THE FIRST DISCS ARRIVING* are only 15GB. Double-layer discs are on the way already, and triple-layer are in development. That's going to give 45GB in the near future. They know this, but for obvious reasons don't share it.
Blu-Ray is going to be betamax and minidisc rolled into one...only thi
Re:Own worst enemy... (Score:1)
Well not you... not too many 12-17 year olds... but then they weren't the ones paying $400US for the just launched Xbox360, Xbox, Playstation 2, Dreamcast, etc... hardcore gamers, high disposable income folk, tech enthusiasts.. these are the people that drive a launch. Prolly see heaps of PS3's under the tree at Xmas 2007 tho. I can see it now:
"Dad: well what about this Xbox360? It's cheaper!"
"Kid: nah that doesn't play high def movies, if we get the PS3 we get
Shelf life... (Score:5, Funny)
XBOX 360 has pretty short shelf life: when they put it on the shelf, someone comes immediately and buys it (well, except Japan... yet). That will happen with the Wii too. That sucks for them having so short shelf life.
But PS3 will have a great shelf life...
Re:Shelf life... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Shelf life... (Score:1, Informative)
That was a dumb thing to try to brag about...
Especially when everyone can see for themselves the stacks of unsold 360s in stores right now.
Microsoft still hasn't sold through their initial 150k shipment to Japan - they are at the amazingly pathetic 130k mark as of now. So there are 360s over there with a seven month shelf life and seven months of dust on them.
Microsoft is getting killed by Sony and the PS2 in Europe right now. The 360 has sold somewhere in the 500-600k
Re:Shelf life... (Score:2)
Remember, when you've boarded a sinking ship...find a lifeboat.
Re:Shelf life... (Score:2)
Re:Shelf life... (Score:1)
Which gimmicky controller? The Wii-mote or the DualShake? And have you actually played either one of them enough for the controller to get old? And if so, are you sure you don't just suck at using it and therefore get bored with it? Actually, I can understand how the DualShake would get old pretty quick, since the basic design has been around since, oh, I dunno, the PS1.
Also, how about some links to back up your claims about 360s sitting on the shelves? The la
Re:Shelf life... (Score:1)
Re:Shelf life... (Score:1)
Yes. Hair movement. Sure. You were looking at the physics of her... hair.
Does it matter? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2)
My firm belief is what Sony's CEO meant by "long PS3 shelf life" is that Sony's filing for bankrupt after the PS3 release.
Reminds of me of their E3 press conference, where they've spent 90% of the time mumbling stuff like: "But moooom... high resolution and more polygons also matters for gameplay. See? It's 1080p, that's c
Why would they have to? (Score:2)
Even today Sony has not yet released a console
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2)
Hypes? (Score:2, Interesting)
"It's all about the games..." (Score:5, Insightful)
Next Gen (Score:1, Troll)
Because a next generation console built on the concept of powerful graphics has next generation storage abilities - like large capacity game discs or hard drives in every model.
Why would Sony give up such a huge advantage when the console costs only $100 more than a 360?
Re:"It's all about the games..." (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, Sony is thinking about four or five years from now... but they're not thinking about games. You missed the boat, son. If space for game content was the purpose, they could have dropped blu-ray and gone with HD-DVD, which would have made it at least a hundred bucks cheaper.
Re:"It's all about the games..." (Score:2)
Cheaper for who? Somehow I can't imagine any savings being passed on to the evil consumer. Anyway, on a game costing so much ($75?) I don't think it's the physical media keeping the price up.
Re:"It's all about the games..." (Score:1)
Even if (Score:2, Insightful)
Blah blah... (Score:5, Funny)
Stupid Microsoft, having to come out with an accessory just an year after they launched.
Do as Sony does: they've not even launched yet.
Re:Blah blah... (Score:2)
Do you need HD? (Score:2, Insightful)
Sony also likes to point out that games in the future may be upwards of 50 and 60 gig. I'm not quite familiar with console game sizes these days, but what
Re:Do you need HD? (Score:2)
As for the 3 DVDs, I think that you could easily get there. People scoffed at the CDROM when it was first available and they'll scoff now too. If you give the developers the space, they'll us
Re:Do you need HD? (Score:1)
Re:Do you need HD? (Score:2)
I happen to want HD. It shits all over DVD quality wise. Fanboys can piss and bitch and moan all they want. I just want a Firefly that looks like my 720p Firefly trailer.
The need for HD (Score:2)
Multiple discs imply a more linear game to avoid disc swapping. I do not like media dictating game design.
HD does not require Blu-Ray (Score:2)
The PS2 has already seen a number of two-disc games
Early PS2s could only read 4.7GB from a DVD. Are there any dual-layer gamediscs for the PS2? Are there any two-disc games for the Xbox? Besides, there are many more possibilities today for keeping content size down than there used to be, especially if the game design is at stake.
But what if [Sony] are right? That's a possibility that people seem to not understand
Betmax. Minidisc. UMD. Memory Stick. The fact that it's Sony makes it less of a possibi
Re:HD does not require Blu-Ray (Score:2)
All of which involve compromise of one form or another, and add development time and resources.
Betmax. Minidisc. UMD. Memory Stick. The fact that it's Sony makes it less of a possibility that Blu-Ray will succeed than it otherwise w
Re:HD does not require Blu-Ray (Score:2)
All of which involve compromise of one form or another
Everything's a compromise. Sony's is to charge more.
CD - developed primarily by Philips, as I recall. Firewire - Apple. Sony developed DVCAM, less sure about MiniDV, though they certainly pushed it in the early days. You're right, Sony has had its many successes too, but although it's way too early to say for Blu-Ray, UMD's recent and public failure didn't exactly endear Sony movie formats to the studios.
You may have forgotten what 360's were going
tens of thousands at least (Score:2)
All is forgiven when you are putting millions of players into peoples hands. That's why Blu-Ray currently has a longer list of studios behind it than HD-DVD (even though there is some overlap) and Blu-Ray also has more exclusive studios (Disney and Sony at least, I think there may be others). I am pretty sure studio s
Great! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Great! (Score:2, Funny)
You need to get yourself a girl, mate. Oh, wait, I forgot where I was for a second.
Re:Great! (Score:1, Insightful)
Yes, that's exactly the plan. Sony intend to sell the PS3 initially to people who are willing to pay $500/$600 for it, then to gradually lower the price over time and sell to those who waited for a lower price. They may or may not have correctly judged the numbers of early adopters willing to p
Re:Great! (Score:1)
Re:Great! (Score:2)
Shelf life?!?! WTF?? (Score:1)
On a slighty offtopic note, has anyone noticed since the change of the Revolution to the Wii, all the names of the game consoles rhyme?
PS3
Wii
Xbox 360
Re:Shelf life?!?! WTF?? (Score:1)
We'll round up $1 to make it simpler.
PS3= $500 *OR* $600
360= $400
Wii= $250
500 - 400 is indeed 100.
600 - 400 is 200.
500 - 250 is 250.
600 - 250 is Three-hundred-fifty dollars.
Not to mention that a) the price of the 360 will likely come down either before or not long after the PS3 is launched, and b) the Wii may even be less than $250.
Even if you only compare the PS3 'lite' with the 360, $100 more than 400 bucks does not in my book qualify as a good deal.
Re:Shelf life?!?! WTF?? (Score:2)
Re:Shelf life?!?! WTF?? (Score:2)
Keep talking..... (Score:1, Insightful)
We wouldn't want that... (Score:1)
Ya, giving your customers choices is like soooo totally stupid. Please, shove your undead-Betamax player onto me.
Choices smart? (Score:2)
So you'd claim the Sega CD was a stroke of genius?
With consoles, choice in add-ons are giving people a choice of things people will not buy and game makers will not code for (and with the HD-DVD drive Microsoft claims it's not even something you can use to play games!)
Why is delivering a $200 add-on that can't play games on a game console smart again?
Because... (Score:2)
... it's not going to be used for games?
It's for playing movies, nothing else. It will be bought only by people who want to play HD movies (because it's cheaper than a standalone player), and being an optional add-on, it has the not-inconsiderable advantage of saving money for everyone else.
Add-on (Score:2)
There's no way they are going to have about a 10% purchase rate for these external players. Meanwhile every PS3 that ships is another Blu-Ray player in a house. Sony can point to those numbers alone and make a compelling case for a studio to provide a movie in Blu-Ray even if they also produce HD-DVD's.
Re:Add-on (Score:2)
As other people have pointed out, unlike all other console add-ons, this one doesn't require support from game developers to be useful. It's much more comparable to buying a 1/3-price standalone player, except that its market is limited to Xbox 360 owners. And, unlike Sony, MS don't care if they sell to a mere 10%, they don't have a vested interest in pushing the format on us no matter what.
As for the "fifteen discs of content", come on, you can do better than that :-) Right now it's an infinite multiple o
Re:Add-on (Score:2)
Accessories usually don't go over so well. (Score:2, Interesting)
Makes sense to me. It didn't work particularly well for Sega with the SegaCD [wikipedia.org] and the 32X [wikipedia.org]. Add-ons for consoles just generally don't go over too well.
Re:Accessories usually don't go over so well. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Accessories usually don't go over so well. (Score:2)
That's an odd way to look at it... How about "Game playing is hindered whether you buy it or not." Streaming off a DVD is huge pain for developers. It is at least doable in the low-res low-poly current-gen market, but the fact that all PS3 devs can design knowing a hard drive is installed opens up a lot of possibilities there.
That, coupled with the extra storage space available on Blu-Ray means that Sony developers don't have to worry about "legacy" ne
Looking into the future (Score:1)
On a side note about game pricing: Won't some games still be in DVD9 format for the ps3? Like budget-esque games
PS3 looks awful (Score:1)
I am sure Sony could release new slim line models but then people have to go re-buy the same machine again. If the PS3 is going to be 'expanded', then won't it look the same ugly way for the next 5+ years?
The reason why I mention this is that in the 70s, the wo
Re:PS3 looks awful (Score:1)
Heh... they bought the purple one? Wow. You do realize that it was released in three colors at launch (purple, orange, and black), and has since had one color dropped and another one added (orange dropped, silver/"platinum" added), right? So, perhaps they should've bought a black one or waited a while longer for the silver one. (Or an orange one... Orange ones have to be worth $$$ now, si
In other words... (Score:2)
I bought an Xbox360 (Score:2)
Re:I bought an Xbox360 (Score:1)
Re:Zonk's EasyBake 360 Fanboy Blog (Score:3, Insightful)
Okay, people have to stop saying this. While it's true that there is currently a moratorium on the use of this "feature" (for both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray), it's only temporary. Supposedly, most of the studios have opted to hold off on its use for a while (Warner is apparently considering using ICT for particular movies) but all of them would like to. The "security" consultants have gotten the executives to believe that the "analog hole" is the primary
ICT can die though (Score:2)
That is why it's imperitive that people who are buying the PS3 buy the $500 model without HDMI. You can still play games at 108
Re:ICT can die though (Score:2)
it's imperitive that people who are buying the PS3 buy the $500 model without HDMI. You can still play games at 1080P.
Sure you can, but without any consumer-level display devices that will accept 1080p over component, how are you going to see them while you play?
HDMI is the future, with or without HDCP.
Here's a 1080p display via component (Score:2)
Take a look at the specs [samsung.com] for the Samsung HL-S5687W [tvauthority.com]. It reads:
2-component video inputs
(480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p)
Yes I admit somewhere just under $3k is somewhat expensive for a TV. But lots of people are buying HD sets that expensive nowadays. I'm also sure there are less expensive examples, that's just the first one I came up with in ten seconds of googling.
W
Re:Here's a 1080p display via component (Score:2)
Cool, that's one at least. Good news for the Samsung HL-S5687W owner(s) out there. I assume it's out of pre-order by now.
The TV Authority page actually seems to contradict the Samsung specs page (it says "two smart component video (Y/Pb/Pr) inputs that accept 480p/720p/1 080i signals."), but I think we can accept Samsung's word here.
Now all we need is some real evidence that the PS3's component output can also do 1080p, on the low-end model.
That's the real question (Score:2)
I agree that's a little fuzzy, I'd like to see some real specs on these things...
Here's another [ecoustics.com] pretty interesting article on HDMI vs. DVI vs. Component, and why the "digitalness" of HDMI may not be entirely superior to component for some uses (mainly cable length). Read comments to the end because there are some people there who also think component can't handle 1080 - i or p.
Re:ICT can die though (Score:2)
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. It's fast becoming impossible to buy a new HDTV/HDTV-ready set without an HDCP-capable DVI/HDMI input. This is particularly true with the big brands where even their cheapest digital sets are now shipping with HD
Two sides (Score:2)
But that's OK so long as we all purchase players without HDMI/HDCP. If enough people do so eventually we will see cheap Chinese displays that support 1080p but only take in stright-up DVI and component inputs, because there will be a market for that. At the point we see that, ICT is really dead. Until then it's a war to get HDMI capable players in peoples hands, which again is why it's so important to buy the $500 PS3 if you
Re:Zonk's EasyBake 360 Fanboy Blog (Score:2)
Wrong. It will do 1080i- there's no way to do a progressive scan signal at that resolution via component. This doesn't seem like that big of a deal until you takethe Image Constraint Token into account. Supposedly there's going to be a moratorium on the ICT, but if/when it goes into effect any movies made afterwards WILL NOT play in their full resolution over analog outputs. Furthermore, there's no garuntee that BluRay will become the next movie standa
Actually... (Score:2)
It's quite possible to transmit a 1080p signal over component. The spec allows for it - take a look sometime.
However, finding a consumer display device that will accept a 1080p component signal is another matter entirely. I'm not aware of any (and no, the Westinghouse LVM-42W2 won't do it).
Re:Actually... (Score:2)
Don't count your chickens before the console hits the shelves.
Re:Zonk's EasyBake 360 Fanboy Blog (Score:2)
That's hardly a scientific sampling.
Native 1080p sets will not be $1000 by September.. (Score:2)
Re:Native 1080p sets will not be $1000 by Septembe (Score:2)
Nintendo is also a Japanese company, and yet: