Sony's Obsession with Proprietary Formats

geoffrobinson writes "Jonathan Last, writing for a lay audience in the Philadelphia Inquirer, comments on Sony's push for the Blu-ray format: 'Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. One of life's more satisfying ironies, however, is that the same fate often befalls those who fixate on history... ...Obsessed with owning proprietary formats, Sony keeps picking fights. It keeps losing. And yet it keeps coming back for more, convinced that all it needs to do is push a bigger stack of chips to the center of the table.'"

How is it Any more

[Nazmun]

HOw is it any more proprietary then Toshiba's HD-DVD (or whomever the designing company is)? This isn't a rhetorical question, I just don't know how.

Both techs seem to be upgrades with associated licensing fees for the tech. Do DVD's lack any licensing fee's to whomever originally designed it?

It's only a "Sony proprietary blunder..."

[mehtajr]

...if it loses. If Blu-ray wins, it's Sony making an absolute killing by developing the standard for hi-def DVD content. The author ignores that, and that the situation he described with Betamax is apples and oranges with Blu-ray (i.e. Sony making deals with dozens of companies to get Blu-ray drives and discs out).

Re:They could get away with this

[kfg]

Whereas those old Betamax machines just keep running, and running, and running, and. . .

KFG

Re:How is it Any more

[PFI_Optix]

I don't think it's that Blu-ray is "more proprietary" so much as it marginalizes itself. HD-DVD is on the market now, and hit the shelves much cheaper than BR. What I'd really like to know is why I should rush out and buy their overpriced format instead of continuing to purchase $5 DVDs that I can watch on my XBOX. Of course, I'm still waiting to be convinced why I need to spend $500 for HDTV when I can get an analog for $150 and receive all of one less signal.

does it really matter?

[MrSquirrel]

It doesn't matter to me who wins in the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray battle. Why? Because regular DVD's look great! High definition looks better than non-HD, but not THAT much better (especially considering the costs). Sony says the ps3 will cost less than a blu-ray player... that's at $600! You can get an amazing DVD player for $150 with all the bells and whistles. When HD-DVD/Blu-Ray come to market and start to popularize, you can bet plain old DVD prices will drop. From a financial sense, DVD's trump HD-DVD and Blu-Ray DVD. ...not to mention that yargh, I'm a pirate matey, and I like to rip/burn DVD's -- something that'll be nerfed with Blu-Ray/HD-DVD.

Recent Attempts Probably Not Fiscally Unsuccessful

[kannibal_klown]

Their proprietary formats recently have probably met the first goal of proprietary formats: feeds revenue into the company. Unfortuantely, they just keep failing to be adopted as defacto standards (for good reasons).

Look at their memory stick. While they didn't succeed it making it the de facto standard for portable media, I'm sure it's worked great for them. Their cameras, PSP, etc all use it and between their manufacturing and licensing I'm sure it helps them out some.

The PSP's UMD bombed for movies, that's a given, but it was a worthwhile "attempt." Personally, I think it was the price that killed it, had they made it cheaper than it would have been worth it for travelling purposes (and only travelling).

Sure, technologically UMB is not the best for gaming because of the power/loading time associated with discs but I'm sure the licensing helps them, but it was a good effort. Storing a lot of data for personal gaming probably doesn't have too many options. Besides, if company X wants to print a game for the PSP they get a piece of the production fee one way or another.

I have a feeling Blu Ray is where it all hits the fan. Unlike it's other more recent proprietary formats which can supplement their own products, Blu Ray can only survive on its own in the wild. It must be adopted as the main video format or else there's just little point in it. Sure if it fails you can still sell Blu Ray burners for Desktops and such, and if PS3 goes Blu Ray then publishers will need to kick a few pennies to Sony.

But in the end, it needs to beat out HDDVD to win and the only way that could happen is if they beat it to market or offered it as a cheaper alternative. I guess we'll see what happens here.

Re:$ony is the electronics world M$

[Rinzai]

Saying that corporations (which are designed to make money) want our money is like saying that dogs like food. Of course Sony wants to make money. Thanks for the update, Darth Obvious. How they're going about it, or whether they're going about it in the wrong way, is an entirely different argument.

I wasn't bothered by the UMD format because it was specific to the PSP; sending out PSP games on SD cards or other compatible media was a waste of time because the games wouldn't run on any other system in the first place. Movies on UMD were inevitable since the PSP is a pretty good movie player, other things being equal. That Sony figured it was going to license the UMD format to other vendors seems pretty short-sighted to me, though. (Likewise Memory Sticks. Yuck.)

So, I agree with the idea that Sony is taking the wrong tack. I just need something more substantial than "Sony wants our money" as the rationale.

Re:Why I avoid

[theotherbastard]

My great story is when I bought a MiniDisc player and thought it was great. Then, slowly but surely the proprietary Atrac3 format became more and more of a hastle. Forcing me to store 2 copies of all my music on my PC. Not to mention the extremely slow conversion and transfer rates to the damn thing.

I still have yet to shell out of a true MP3 player or iPod rather opting to burn CD's of anything I want to listen to. I will still, from time to time pull it out and load some songs onto it. But it just isn't worth it.

Oh yeah, and lets not talk about how the navigation buttons rarely work the way they are supposed to due to poor design.

Re:Recent Attempts Probably Not Fiscally Unsuccess

[revlayle]

Well, HD-DVD is already out on the market... so let's see if they can go for cheaper.

Wait, it's Sony...

Disposable media

[od05]

I'd prefer bringing back the tape or having cartridges with plastic casing (like NES games) so my media doens't need replacement every 5 years. I remember seriously abusing NES games and cassette tapes and having them still work.

Both HD-DVD and Bluray are optical disks that will not play if scratched. If the media itself wasn't so fragile people won't need to back it all up in the first place. I won't be buying into any of this fragile DRMed media that will not play if scratched until I am able to back it up first.

For flexibility, for value - No Sony Products

[gadlaw]

The last Sony products I bought were Walkman Cassette players and a Trinitron TV. Back then those products were values for the money. Now I look at everything from digital camcorders to various music players and see no good value. I see locked in technology that would cost me more to own so I find something else to buy that does give me value and quality for my money. The article mentions Betamax, the memory stick and that stupid mini-disc, all examples of proprietary, expensive and locked down technologies from Sony. If Blu-Ray is the same it'll have the same fate as the other products Sony has tried to pawn off on us. It'll smell like a turd but they'll have pretty girls and advertisements telling us that's flower perfume we're smelling but it'll still be turd. Sony thinks that they have the video game players locked in because of the PS1 and PS2 and they reason that those folks will migrate to whatever nonsense Sony puts down in front of them. This was the reasoning with the mini-disc and the memory stick as well. Sony thought they had the personal music player market locked up. I mean after all, wasn't the walkman the most popular thing on the planet? Folks won't mind if we lock them into our Sony's expensive stuff. Only it didn't work that way, other music players came and other memory options came out and that market once owned by Sony was gone with the wind. The article writer Jonathan V. Last is right, Sony is a prisoner of their own internal logic and keeps making the same fatal mistakes.

Re:How is it Any more

[MasaMuneCyrus]

Because Toshiba's HD-DVD format was developed in unison with the international DVD forum [wikipedia.org], whose task it was to collaborate and create the next-gen DVDs. Sony, however, backstabbed the world, and created a second format war when it dismissed HD-DVDs and made their own specification.

Moreover, Blu-ray has unimaginable support by movie companies, because of the very same reason everyone hates Sony and everyone hates the MPAA. The Blu-ray format has more DRM and other copy-protection than HD-DVD does.


Simply put, BD-ROM is another propietary format developed by Sony, and it is screwing consumers in ways that this generation has never seen. The DVD forum was created to prevent another horrible VHS-Betamax war, and because of Sony's arrogance and greed, it was all for naught.

Re:Those who ignore facts are doomed to look stupi

[Kenshin]

UMD can only be played on the PSP, and only on the PSP's display.

Blu-ray Discs can be played on any BD player (when they're shortly available), and on any display. (With varying resolutions.)

Any attempt to compare the two is either misinformed or biased.

Content will decide the victor...

[rkhalloran]

The studios listed for HD-DVD are *also* listed for BR ("CYA group"), but Sony's got more lined up for BR only. When little Joey wants his Disney fix in HD, and the parents find out it's only to be had on BR, guess what wins? Add the gaming boost from Playstation's market share and Sony may actually have something here.

Re:Why I avoid

[MrShaggy]

Being old enough at the time, I seem to recall the video-tape wars.

Sony had a better product, it was smaller and had a higher quality then VHS.
It wasn't that it was inferior, their mistake was that they didn't license it.

It was shortsightedness that brought them down, much like what happened to the Amiga. If the opened up to other manufacturers, they probably would have taken Apples place, if not along side them. They were an awesome thing.

Sony lost out, only because of price, not quality. Same reason I wait to upgrade my video card only when I need to. I only spend 50$ or so. That way the ones that are a couple of hundred now.. will be there for my pickings then.

Sweet.

Re:How is it Any more

[Kenshin]

Because Toshiba's HD-DVD format was developed in unison with the international DVD forum [wikipedia.org], whose task it was to collaborate and create the next-gen DVDs. Sony, however, backstabbed the world, and created a second format war when it dismissed HD-DVDs and made their own specification.

One could also say:

Because Toshiba's HD-DVD format was developed in unison with the international DVD forum [wikipedia.org], whose task it was to collaborate and create the next-gen DVDs. Sony, however, saw that the new format wasn't advanced enough to meet standards 5 years from now, and created a second format war when it dismissed HD-DVDs and made their own specification with twice the storage capacity.

Re:cliche retort

[mrchaotica]

You know the pattern in your examples? They're all old Sony products. It's the newer ones people seem to be complaining about.

Re:They could get away with this

[Anonymous Coward]

Disclaimer: My entire post is not directed at yours. Firstly, with regard to your comment, when Sony was making Betamax machines, VCRs were build a whole lot better than they are now. I remember my first VCR weighed at least 20lbs -- built like a real brick shithouse. Nowadays, most consumer electronics (DVDs / VCRs) don't weigh a quarter that amount. This probably has to do with replacing metal gears and drives with plastic or nylon ones. There is no internal frame to speak of...just a sheet metal cover that attaches to a base. So, no, they don't make'em like they used to... Regarding other comments about Sony and their proprietary mess...they better learn that real consumers do pay attention...I recently purchased a digital camera -- I loved some of the features of the sony cameras, but crossed them off due to their use of the sony memory stick. Much cheaper media in the form of SD, CF, etc. I also crossed off Nikon -- the only reason was that I remember reading (on /.) about how Nikon was being a dick about releasing specs on the RAW format. Frankly, I don't give a shit about RAW format, but I do give a shit about companies that treat their customers badly. Cheers!

Re:Those who ignore facts are doomed to look stupi

[Duds]

Most studios released stuff on minidisk and betamax too.

Re:Those who ignore facts are doomed to look stupi

[transami]

UMD could have been successful, if Sony "opened" it up more. I think that's the heart of the matter. It's not that they have propretary formats. It''s just that they cling to them too tightly.

I would have been very interested in a UMD drive form my computer. Small, well protected. Burn my own PSP media. Very cool. It woud And a blu-ray based UMD disc later on (for PSP2) would have been the bomb. And if I could plug my PSP into my TV and watch the UMD like that would be very cool too. I actually wish Sony would retry with UMD, but this time do it right.

T.

"Writing for a lay audience"????

[fm6]

The submission makes it sound like Jonathan Last is some kind of technical expert. He's just a reporter on the technology beat. He does make some good points in the article, but he also makes some of the lame mistakes ("the DVD already had one competitor, DivX" and "household gadgets needed in a war-ravaged country: rice cookers and heating pads") typical of those self-taught "experts" who doesn't know technology as well as they think they do.

Re:cliche retort

[gearfab]

Likewise, I still use my Sony D8 DAT Walkman and Sony R300 DAT Rack 11 years after purchase. With some modification, they are easily able to circumvert SCMS restrictions - which never really mattered since I bought them to tape/process Grateful Dead shows. Having said that, Sony should stick to making great versions of existing consumer products and quit trying to create/force everyone into their proprietary formats. They, quite simply, never have and never will win these battles.

Re:Regular DVDs do not look "great"

[DragonWriter]

... and it frustrates me because they are screwing up something we really need.

Sure, sure, higher resolution video entertainment is a pleasant luxury item, but it boggles the mind to see it described as "something we really need".

I mean, solutions to problems of social injustice, environmental degradation, resource exhaustion, those are things we really need. Prettier ways to watch movies in our livingrooms are nice, and something I'll certainly be spending money on when their available and affordable, but hardly a necessity.

Re:How is it Any more

[ByteGuerrilla]

Yup... just like the ridiculous 'Super HD' resolutions Sony promised us in the PS3.

The all-but-official Kings of Making Shit Up. I don't believe anything Sony promise until I can see it in real-life.

Re:Those who ignore facts are doomed to look stupi

[Fulcrum of Evil]

UMD could have been successful, if Sony "opened" it up more.

Maybe if it had been a mini dvd that played in a dvd player. UMD confronts the problem that nobody is willing to buy the same dvd twice so they can play it on a psp. I'd rather spend the cash and rip my dvd to mpegs and watch them on a laptop.

Re:cliche retort

[homer_ca]

When Betamax and MD were new people may have complained about proprietary media but not about quality. These days the quality and reliability of Sony electronics have gone downhill too. That is new.

Re:How is it Any more

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Uh, have you ever watched HDTV?

No, I have a HDTV monitor from 2001, so none of the current HDTV crap will play on it. Frankly, I don't see the appeal, nor am I willing to spend $thousands on something I can't even record.

Re:How is it Any more

[plague3106]

I've checked out HDTV every time I'm in an electonics store. It doesn't look any better to me than regular TV. in some aspects, it looks worse, because the big TVs show the blockies in great detail.

Re:Why I avoid

[thatguywhoiam]

And from that point forward, my bad experiences with their stuff just kept piling up. I've been 'done' with Sony since about 5 years ago. Now I just wait for them to die.

You're going to wait a long time. I have a Sony radio on my shelf, it was built in 1962. Sony is not going anywhere.

Unless you are some kind of console fanboy, why on earth would you want them to die rather than simply improve?

Re:Those who ignore facts are doomed to look stupi

[tbannist]

No, it's just simple greed, and that's not necessarily a bad thing either. They're supporting one format because they'd rather have just one format. The economies of scale are much greater for 1 format than for 2, and that means supporting 2 formats is going to cost them money. Sure they'd by denying you the choice of which format to have, but they also know a majority of their customers would rather not have the choice in the first place if the two formats are functionally the same.

The point was to try and get everyone using the same format, but the primary backer of HD-DVD appears to be Microsoft and they can afford to prolong the fight indefinitely.

Re:Technologically superior?

[drinkypoo]

there was no way to use MD as portable storage until long after the iPod had arrived

Who told you that? There was a portable Data Minidisc drive before the iPod was even a gleam in Apple's eye. It was not available in the US and AFAIK would not let you transfer music via the data interface - you still had to use the stupid optical as your only digital interface, in real time. Before mp3 players, though, the minidisc was the best thing going. Kicked the hell out of CDs, and unlike a recordable audio CD, you can delete a track out of the middle and record a new one, because minidiscs have a TOC more complicated than the start and end of tracks.

IIRC the minidisc data drive had a SCSI interface, and Sony sold a PCMCIA Type II SCSI card to go with it.

Re:Why I avoid

[Mistshadow2k4]

Unless you are some kind of console fanboy, why on earth would you want them to die rather than simply improve?

Because they keep influencing the industry with their methods. By this I mean prop formats that lock you in -- Sony is most famous for it, but others have tried to do the same thing. And with their quality going down but their prices continually going up they make all of us look even more like suckers than we are (which is saying a lot because so many are suckers) and that negatively influences the industry as well.

Your response isn't contradictory

[Calyth]

He said that if they still made quality products.
AFAIK, MiniDiscs were around 1992, which qualifys as the not-so-recent past. I don't see how his comment is contradicting your comments about older Sony devices that worked well.

I got a Sony Vaio laptop from a friend, and the DC plug inside the laptop died promptly just after a year. After fixing that, AC power is kinda flaky and the laptop has basically become useless for me.