Time-Tested Gaming 123
1up has an interesting piece looking at games that have withstood the test of time, aging gracefully where others have not. Titles discussed include the Korean powerhouse Starcraft, Nethack, and the Sim series. From the article: "It's hard to label which games are suitable for repeated lovin' and which are forgettable. One gamer's Halo is another gamer's Superman 64. But when it comes to firing up a favorite, some adventures hold the same appeal they did when they were released years ago -- and jumping in for the fortieth round is every bit as pleasurable as the first time."
tetris! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:tetris! (Score:1)
Unfortunately (Score:1)
Re:Unfortunately (Score:1)
Re:tetris! (Score:1)
Re:tetris! (Score:1)
Ask and you shall receive [x-entertainment.com].
It's a board game, not a tabletop game, but d20 is pretty much a board game anyway.
What's the big deal about Nethack? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What's the big deal about Nethack? (Score:3, Informative)
I'm sure others who have more knowledge in Nethack will provide more info. I myself am not an expert on the subject.
Re:What's the big deal about Nethack? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What's the big deal about Nethack? (Score:1)
Re:What's the big deal about Nethack? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you give it a go for the first time, prepare yourself to be disappointed. Be prepared to spend the first ~hour or so dying many times, mostly from starvation and YASD (Yet another stupid death). But if you get that through hour or so and last beyond around level 10, you will be hooked for life (not necessarily a good thing!). I would recommend reading some of the many guides on the net, but avoid the spoilers at least for the first while, it will spoil the satisfaction of discovering things yourself (like #dipping your sword into a poition of poison will make your sword poisoned as a small example).
Re: YASD (Score:3, Interesting)
That's why I'll never play Nethack. I don't enjoy games where you're forced to "learn by dieing." It's like a stupid platformer game where you're forced to memorize the first N jumps only to fall off at N+1, so you have to start over from 0, only to fall at N+2. Repeat ad infinitum. It's bullshit. I've got better things to do with my time than explore the infinite number of ways some
Re: YASD (Score:2)
Re: YASD (Score:3, Interesting)
> you say is bad, yes. However, in Nethack you just die until you get
> the fundamentals of the game down. From that point on, it is smooth
> sailing. This applies to almost any games, even sports.
Odd, I don't recall dying even once when I was learning baseball...
Chris mattern
Re: YASD (Score:2)
Re: YASD (Score:3, Funny)
How about basketball when you were forced to be on the "skins"?
Re: YASD (Score:2, Insightful)
Until, after another fortnight of playing, the game suddenly arbitrarily decides to kill you after all. It's usually at that point that people with other things in their lives realise that they don't, in fact, have time for a game where a single accidental death means you have to start all over again from scratch.
This applies to almost any games, even sports.
In Nethack soccer, if the g
Re: YASD (Score:1)
What you imagine and what takes place aren't the same thing. Nethack is popular.
I wouldn't say that the game arbitrarily decides to kill you. It has its own rules, like any other game. Common sense usually helps a lot, but it's difficult to remember common sense in games because few games are as life-like as Nethack. I once killed myself by falling into a pit with an iron ball shackled to my leg, because the ball fell on m
Re:What's the big deal about Nethack? (Score:2)
Re:What's the big deal about Nethack? (Score:1)
Re:What's the big deal about Nethack? (Score:2)
Others have mentioned depth, I think a lot of that comes from the random/polymorphic nature of NH.
Every time you play, a new dungeon is generated. While there are similarities as you replay, it is always different enough to stay challenging and interesting.
So you have to do a fair bit of dying before you get the hang of it, but it's not like you have to repeat the same thing over and over as you improve. Each trip into the dungeon is different.
It's great because a lot of the energy that typically goes
Re:What's the big deal about Nethack? (Score:2)
Civ II (Score:4, Interesting)
One glaring omission (Score:5, Informative)
I have followed Zelda games ever since I was a child, and even today, tons of people follow it. It was simply a perfect game. There's a community online that makes their own quests with an engine:
http://www.zeldaclassic.com/ [zeldaclassic.com]
Also, a person has redone the original NES rom and made another game that's fantastic on its own:
http://rha.cymoro.com/zelda3c/ZeldaC/ [cymoro.com]
Re:One glaring omission (Score:2)
Re:One glaring omission (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:One glaring omission (Score:2)
You get bombs as soon as you want.
You get the power bracelet whenever you want, provided you figure out the lost woods combo. The ladder just makes getting this easier.
You can pick up the white sword without ever setting foot inside a dungeon.
You can save keys from dungeon-to-dungeon, and even buy more keys if you get sick of searching for them.
Most items
One obvious omission (Score:2)
It may have aged more gracefully than some, but it doesn't have one thing that a lot of the games in the article do: replayability. And a lot of times that will keep a game being played not only for a long time, but also more often than other games. Zelda? One shot, you're done. And don't tell me about the second quest; it was just a shell game.
Zelda could go on a classic games list (and has, many a time), but there
Duke 3D and 2D artwork (Score:3, Insightful)
On the other hand, I think there's a hidden appeal to the higher-quality 2D artwork of yesteryear. The glory days of 16-bit artwork like the stuff featured in Chrono Trigger will always look cool in my eyes, where first-gen 3D console titles will stick out as primitive and likely ugly.
Re:Duke 3D and 2D artwork (Score:2)
Re:Duke 3D and 2D artwork (Score:1)
Now with advanced shaders, normal maps and real shadows/lightning games start to look pretty again. This time it more because of better simulation techniques (with tradeoffs and near approximations of course), than because of improved art.
2D had fixed point of view, meaning that developers knew exactly what players is seeing at
Re:Duke 3D and 2D artwork (Score:2)
Re:Duke 3D and 2D artwork (Score:3, Interesting)
Duke 3D, eh? (Score:1)
Which is why I also love Serious Sam (First Encounter, and Second Encounter). If you have an XBox (or even PC), I can't stress how much you should pick up SS. Up here in Canada, I got it for 19.99 brand new. It's a budget title, but I'd have to say that it contains some of the most fun I've had with a FPS in a looooong time. Nothing complex, like Rainbox Six or Perfect Dar
Re:Duke 3D, eh? (Score:1)
Re:Duke 3D, eh? (Score:1)
Other choices? (Score:3, Interesting)
Red Alert is a kind of game that still ends up fun, even after eight years. Those times when you turn around and go for a new kind of rush, taking down a Tesla coil with dozens of infantry, or just reliving tank rushes for the sheer hell of it!
Tie Fighter had all the elements of a successful space fighter game, and allowed you to play as the bad guys. That in itself made it fun to play.
Sonic 3 might be a bit different for me, since it was the very first game I played, so I obviously see it with rose-tinted glasses. Somehow, it got the formula just right and it keeps you going throughout, pure brilliance.
Worms 2 should never age. The cartoony graphics, the silly voices and the brilliant weapons all come together to make something truly fun.
Re:Other choices? (Score:3)
Re:Other choices? (Score:2)
Absolutely! I actually just fired up EU2 again the other day for the first time in a while. It's remarkable how well it has held up. (Note to strategy game geeks: you can pick up EU2 now for $15 [gamersgate.net], and it will run on just about anything more modern than a 386, so if you have never tried it, you officially have no excuses.)
My only hope is that the upcoming EU3 is as good, that'll keep me content until 2011 or so ;-)
Re:Other choices? (Score:2)
The Mac version [vpltd.com] is slightly more spendy, but still available for $23.96, and supported up to the last patch.
Re:Other choices? (Score:2)
Another series that for me is truly timeless is the Thief series. The first two games used the same engine - not even particularly advanced back in the day. Now they look downright outdated, but nonetheless, there is someth
It is in the cards. (Score:3, Insightful)
Solitaire!
Re:It is in the cards. (Score:2)
As a side note, I think this has something to do with Nintendo's mindset...
Dodonpachi! (Score:2)
About 9 years old and still an example of shooting perfection. The graphics still hold up fairly well. The sequel is great too, but I still come back to play a few credits every now and then... and for some reason get better each time.
-ReK
Rereleases (Score:1)
Although, both Tetris Attack on the SNES, and Panel De Pon on the GBA (part of Dr. Mario and PDP) are excellent versions of Panel De Pon. Now lets all play together, under the clearest of -blue skies-. :)
Recurring theme; Use your brain! (Score:3, Interesting)
---------------
*Oldies but goodies
Go
Chess
---------------
*More recent classics
Civ II
Risk
Seawolf
Monolopy/Checkers (Just hear me out on this one)
---------------
The pattern that makes these popular and still "Fun To Play!" is that it requires you to use your brain and think strategy. (And to a lessor extent this applies to Monopoly/Checkers)
Sudoku is a recent blip on this theme.
Any game that allows you to beat any other opponent based solely on your mental ability will be coveted by the non-jocks of the world, (and we ALWAYS outnumber the jocks.)
It doesn't require physical skill. (Which is why most FPS games are mere blips in the pan, would you really devote 20+hrs to Wolfenstien3D again these days?)
One brain vs another, priceless domination.
Re:Recurring theme; Use your brain! (Score:2)
Re:Recurring theme; Use your brain! (Score:2)
I would if it were Return To Castle Wolfenstien: Enemy Territory... I haven't played in a while but that was all I played for about 2 years. Great multiplayer game that was totally free. Enough depth via the various classes/skills/weapons to be interesting.
Re:Recurring theme; Use your brain! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Recurring theme; Use your brain! (Score:2)
In fact, I'm testing the new glGo client
Re:Recurring theme; Use your brain! (Score:2)
Both entries make the claim on oldest game ever, but that's just some usual Wikipedia inconsistency. I've also heard from a seperate source (Wired magazine?) that Backgammon predates Go.
Hm, I think I'll try to correct the Go entry.
Board Games (Score:2)
Re:Recurring theme; Use your brain! (Score:1)
What makes that priceless domination? Why would a game like that be more worthy than a frantic fps? Do you really not think twitch games require skill?
If you think fps games require actual physical skill then you need to get some excercise, because moving a mouse about is not exhausting.
You can't say that fps games are for stupid people just because YOU don't have the necessary skill.
Goldeneye! (Score:1)
Re:Goldeneye! (Score:2)
And even then our favorite levels were the ones from Goldeneye.
I was just saying to my friends today that we should fire up the N64 again for some Facility hallway camping. With remote mines.
OpenTTD (Score:3, Informative)
The scope of that game is amazing.
Re:OpenTTD (Score:2)
Or just try to make the damn trains follow orders :(. They keep on getting lost at the rate of making the whole rail system nearly useless... And since they are in the way of other trains, the whole s
Re:OpenTTD (Score:1)
I was a TTDLX addict (Score:2)
I discovered that, even though the game doesn't support it, you can build automatic parallel switching trunk lines [geocities.com] if you're willing to devote the extra land required. WARNING: back in the day I hosted this on my buddy's old Geocities site, please tread lightly.
You can also do fun things like swi
Nadia, you silly... (Score:2)
"A well-developed game will live for years." next to a picture of KOTOR 2, a game derided as being rushed to market (rather than being allowed to percolate to perfection), complete with locked-up content showing off the mostly-unfinished proper ending. At least Halo 2 had most of the bugs fixed before the "SEE YOU IN HALO 3" ending flashed up, while Kotor2 would often le
Re:Nadia, you silly... (Score:1)
Re:Nadia, you silly... (Score:3, Informative)
Misheaded nethack page. (Score:3, Informative)
'%' in nethack represents food, not any enemy. sure, when enemies die their corpses are considered food, but still not quite the point.
'C','c','&', or pretty much any other character on the keyboard would have sufficed, but I think the title should have been "@ versus the evil @".
But maybe that's just me.
Re:Misheaded nethack page. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Misheaded nethack page. (Score:2)
Re:Misheaded nethack page. (Score:3, Informative)
'trice corpse, choking on a wraith corpse (I knew a guy who did this...With the amulet!), green slime, choking on a melon (I once found bones in Gehemmon from someone who died like this), green blobs, rotted corpses. Did I say 'trice corpse?
C aren't hard. H though... And T. Ts are NOT fun.
Re:Misheaded nethack page. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Misheaded nethack page. (Score:3, Informative)
One of my favorite ways to deal with the troll problem is simply to kill them once so they become %, then eat them. They ain't regenerating in my gut.
Oh, and to defend my original statement:
Yes, % can kill you in nethack, but to summarize the game as "versus %" is a bit much.
(and on yet a third note, this is my first time seeing
Re:Misheaded nethack page. (Score:2)
I usually go for the "eat them" or "Kill 'em with Stormbringer enough times so I can 1 Hit-KO them with a scalpel" routes, since water isn't common (thankfully).
For what it's worth: join #nethack on freenode, great place for info and discussions!
Re:Misheaded nethack page. (Score:2)
Honest mistake.
However, I do think "@ versus %" is very apt, since in the beginning you WILL die from starvation. More so if you play Wizards with 18 int
DOTT (Score:2)
Re:DOTT (Score:2)
Who said anything about Hentai? If you dont know about DOTT you must be fairly young to computers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Tentacle [wikipedia.org]
Some themes of my favorite games (Score:2)
First, most of them lack much of a story. I think this works well for replay value because it can become tiresom to sit through the game telling you a story when you've seen it a dozen or more times already. Second is that most of the ga
I'd add X-com to the list (Score:2)
It's also just about the only game I played back in the day that doesn't have a modern equivalent - LSN isn't nearly as good, and the only other game I can think of that came close was Fallout (which is also a gooc classic in it's own right). In fact if it weren't for the lack of more recent choices, I probably wouldn't be playing X-com; I don't do the whole "classic" game scene normally.
Re:I'd add X-com to the list (Score:1)
I also think many fans felt betrayed by the X-Com 3 and X-Com 4 sequels. X-Com 2 was still great though, probably because it didn't try to go with what was popular at the time.
I really want to play X-Com again. Are you using an emulator, or an old DOS-box? Also where can I find it if it's lost in my personal archives?
Re:I'd add X-com to the list (Score:1, Informative)
Battlefield series (Score:1, Offtopic)
Been hooked on this series since the day it came out, and play it regularly, usually about 10-12 hours/week.
No other game gets my adrenaline up like this one can, and gives me the variety of play I crave. What do I feel like doing this respawn? Take a tank to support the attack? Make a fast assault in a humvee or truck with a couple squadmates? Join in a defense of a flag as a medic or assault? Go sniper and sneak a
Birth of the Federation (Score:1)
It even has a relatively dedicated (though slow working) group of people developing a sequel that can actually be modded!
Re:Birth of the Federation (Score:2)
There was sort of a constant state of betrayal in that game for multiplayer. You just had no idea if you were being setup or lied to or what was going to happen.
I also recall that it was on the MS Gaming Zone.
I should dig it up and put it on my laptop as a time waster. Hey - shoot me an email - matt at braynard dot c
NWN (Score:3)
The community-constructed modules ("adventures") have definitely made NWN worth coming back to.
Starcontrol II (Score:2, Informative)
Heroes of Might and Magic 2 (Score:2)
Homeworld (Score:2)
I like the choices, but the writeups are horrible. (Score:2, Insightful)
In Nethack, a % is food. It's not evil. The character they were looking for is & (demon).
2) Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
The writeup is all about how you're no longer stuck going through linear levels - how now there are items to find, and you can backtrack and unlock previously-locked areas.
Apparently this author's never heard of Castlevania II: Simon's Quest - released in 1988 - with all of these features.
Descent (Score:2)
I use D2X-XL [descent2.de] version 1.6.6.
I tried to play Quake2 in the last month but it was just boring compared to descent, which is older.
Re:Descent (Score:1)
between carpal tunnel and lack of time I don't get a chance to play games much any more. But if I did, this is one of the few I'd still play. Even the circa-1996 version of Descent II was a such a good game (especially with teams) that it's still a lot of fun.
Where's Ultima Online? Where's Quake? (Score:4, Insightful)
Then, there's also Quake (yes, the first one). It's still played around the world. Quake mods such as Team Fortress (which paved the way to full modification mods as we see today) and some simpler mods such as Total Destruction are still played and there many active communities for these games.
Although America's reality is a bit different, these facts are completely true in another countries such as here in Brazil, for example, and maybe in many other developing countries. This is the positive side of not being able to have the latest graphics card or whatever: people don't focus that much on graphics. They worry about fun. That's why UO is specially popular: people can make their own world and play with their friends, with a server hosted on their own machine. Almost any PC can run Ultima Online without problems (I used to play it on a K6-350 with 32MB RAM).
The culture is really different. The most commercially succesful game here in Brazil currently is Ragnarök, a crappy online RPG. It has terrible mixed 2d/3d graphics and people are still paying to play it. Because everyone can play it. It's not like Half-Life 2 where maybe 10% of the computers can even run it at a barely playable level.
X-COM (Score:1)
Age of Empires 2 (Score:1)
Total Annihilation (Score:1)
Re:Total Annihilation (Score:1)
Diablo 2 (Score:3)
Minesweeper. (Score:1)
Duke Nukem Forever? (Score:2)
7-Player Bomberman on the Sega Saturn (Score:2)
They also ran the multiplayer game in some weird high-res mode that I've never seen used in another Saturn game, that actually allowed for a map large enough for 8 players (7 human, 1 computer).
Subjective (Score:2)
But basically all games are about as fun to play as when they came out, provided that you're inclined to like old games as much as new ones.
As for consoles... (Score:2)
SNES games seem to have stood the test of time, probably more than any other system, they really were the height of 2D gaming practices. Of course, there continue to be great 2D games (Smash Bros, New Super Mario, Viewtiful Joe), but the concentration of 2D gaming was so great, and so refined at the time, while still being concidered "cutting edge" (let's face it, New Super Mario is a great game, though a lot of it's appeal is nostolgia, not just quality).
I think one of the main things that SNES games rea
Re:Bolo (Score:1)
It was ported?! WHEN?! WHY WAS I NOT INFORMED?!!
And to think I nearly forgot about that gem of a game...
-:sigma.SB
Re:Fallout 1 & 2 (Score:1)
Re:Fallout 1 & 2 (Score:1)