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Tom's Overly Detailed Vista Review 283

Posted by Zonk from the have-a-few-hours-to-kill dept.
prostoalex writes "The weekend is here, and several software sites have published extensive reviews of Windows Vista for your reading enjoyment. Tom's Hardware is running a 500 hour Windows Vista review that spreads out 40 pages." From the article: "This new operating system is huge: it has more than 37,800 files, taking up a total of 10 GB. Part of this size stems from the fact that the current Beta is for the so-called "Ultimate Edition", which contains all available components, including complete versions of both Tablet PC and Media Center capabilities. In addition, many applications have been compiled in debug mode, so some space savings should occur for final versions once that debug switch is turned off. For our Windows Vista preview, we used Build 5381."
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Tom's Overly Detailed Vista Review More

Tom's Overly Detailed Vista Review

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  • I TOLD them it was a dupe! (Score:5, Informative)

    by yagu ( 721525 ) * <{yayagu} {at} {gmail.com}> on Saturday June 03, 2006 @02:43PM (#15462647) Journal

    Let me save you some time, this is a dupe.

    As a "subscriber", I get the preview of articles with the blurb: See any serious problems with this story? Email our on-duty editor. at the bottom. This gives opportunity to correct errors (doesn't happen much) and more importantly help stem the tide of dupes. I replied, told them "DUPE, BIG TIME", but alas. (It's a dupe of Tom's Hardware Looks at Microsoft Vista Beta [slashdot.org].)

    So, since it's a dupe, and I already posted to that story, feel free to read my post [slashdot.org] again.

    (I don't mind the occasional dupe, I wonder why a mechanism to prevent them is offered if it isn't used. Sigh.)

  • Too many pages (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bromskloss ( 750445 ) <auxiliary,address,for,privacy&gmail,com> on Saturday June 03, 2006 @02:48PM (#15462672)
    Tom's Hardware is running a 500 hour Windows Vista review that spreads out 40 pages.
    Please tell Tom's Hardware that in this age of wonderful technology, even a 500 hour review (whatever that is supposed to mean) doesn't have to span any more than a single page. I wouldn't read this one even if it was about something interesting.

    • Re:Too many pages (Score:2, Informative)

      by nstlgc ( 945418 )
      That's why God invented Print Versions: http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/31/windows_vis ta/print.html [tomshardware.com]

    • Re:Too many pages (Score:4, Funny)

      by kfg ( 145172 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @04:23PM (#15463116)
      500 hour review (whatever that is supposed to mean)

      How long you can expect it to take to click through it.

      KFG

    • Secret TH Printer Friendly Layout (Score:5, Informative)

      by TubeSteak ( 669689 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @04:56PM (#15463247) Journal
      http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/31/windows_vis ta/print.html [tomshardware.com]

      Someone in a previous Tom's Hardware thread pointed out [slashdot.org] that adding "print.html" to the end of any TH article will magically give you a ONE Page article.

      Thank you fief (12961). It looks like you've learned a thing or two since getting that low UID .

    • There's nothing to read (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Tim Ward ( 514198 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @05:14PM (#15463326) Homepage
      There's essentially no text - it's just lots of pages of screen shots. (Well, up to page four or five anyway, I got bored and stopped at that point.)

    • Re:Too many pages (Score:5, Informative)

      by vtcodger ( 957785 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @07:44PM (#15463842)
      Didn't read it, eh? A wise decision. Summary:
      • Pages 1-3: They have again improved (i.e. changed) the graphical interface with, are you ready for this? tranparent windows (I assume this is different from not displaying the window at all).
      • Pages 4-11 They've fixed IE so that it is secure, does what Firefox does, and prints properly (about damn time if true). People still use IE?
      • Pages 12-15 They've added GUI IPV6 support
      • Page 16 You can specify your language for voice input
      • Page 17 They've tinkered with the help system (again).
      • Pages 19-21 You will now have a choice of secure or usable. That's an exclusive or.
      • Pages 22-24 They have expanded Windows Update (an accident waiting to happen if you ask me)
      • Pages 25-29 They have tinkered some with Explorer. Some of the stuff sounds reasonable.
      • Page 29 They have done more work on device driver installation. This is probably a genuine improvement. But XP was pretty good.
      • Page 30 You can specify default browser, email, etc in one place
      • Page 31 There will be a new DirectX, but it's not ready yet.
      • Pages 32-39 All the old games are there and you can save and restore them. They've added chess, inkball.and purple place.(Yes, TH really devoted EIGHT pages to games)

      It took five years for This ? I imagine that there is more, but I don't know what. I've probably trialized some genuine improvements. But on the whole, Vista seems pretty underwhelming, and in any case, my fondest hope is that I can stick with Windows 9 until either Linux really works well, or Microsoft rethinks its approach to OSes and delivers up somthing that does less and does it better.

  • The 3rd Prostoalex Submission Today (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 03, 2006 @02:51PM (#15462686)
    Seriously, this is getting out of hand. He's already had 2 articles today [slashdot.org], every one of them linking to a different site of his. Did Slashdot's contract with Roland expire or something? This guy is clearly using Slashdot to pad his various semi-scammy sites. Something smells rotten here(and it's not RMS without a shower...).

  • Waste of Space (Score:4, Funny)

    by ludomancer ( 921940 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @02:54PM (#15462705)
    Maybe the extensive review is a tribute to the OS in question: Bulky and unnecessary.

    All I have to say is http://www.nliteos.com/ [nliteos.com] (nlite Windows software) to the rescue.

  • Dupe with print-view link (Score:5, Informative)

    by thewldisntenuff ( 778302 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @02:54PM (#15462708) Homepage
    This was a dupe from last Wednesday, posted mysteriously in the Linux section (something in the dupe post about Ubuntu 6) of /. -

    You can read the original thread here [slashdot.org]

    And if you don't like clicking through 40 pages, there's a print view here [tomshardware.com]

  • 10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:3, Interesting)

    by RobertLTux ( 260313 ) <robert AT laurencemartin DOT org> on Saturday June 03, 2006 @02:58PM (#15462729)
    im mean really mandriva is 12gigs total debian is 12 gigs i think that just about all the big distros are that big
    • But the 12 gigs of Linux also include all the programs you will ever need. What does Windows bundle with that same amount of space? Virus scanners, spyware removal, and the beautiful Aero!
      • Arguably vista has all the programs the average joe will ever need (minus an office suite). I have no idea what takes up the space, but keep in mind that Vista has much more of a driver base than linux. Also, vista has GUIs of almost all windows versions (classic, standard, xp, and aero; not sure if this takes up any space, but it is possible).

        XP is stable (I have no idea of vista is), the only thing that I think really needs to be imporved is security, networking, the registry, and the ability to insta-kil

        • Minus the Office Suite is a pretty fucking big omission. That's second only to minus the internet. But Microsoft pulled that one out of the fire on Windows 95

        • P is stable (I have no idea of vista is), the only thing that I think really needs to be imporved is ... the registry ...

          Just out of curiosity, what's your gripe with the registry?

          • Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:4, Informative)

            by naelurec ( 552384 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @07:08PM (#15463729) Homepage
            Just out of curiosity, what's your gripe with the registry?

            While in *theory* the registry is ok, I find major problems in the following areas:

            1. Migrating configs from one system to another system. On a *nix based system, I can simply copy the text configs and be on my way.. With the registry, there is no standard way to export the config of a given application easily and consistently.

            2. Organization - ties into #1 -- there are LOTS of programs that store/update/modify registry information in various parts of the registry. As a result, it is *VERY* difficult to track down configuration issues unless it has been previously documented (ie KB article). Outlook tops my list for aggervation with this one.

            3. Lack of alternate configs .. as programs store their configs in the registry, it is not possible to point an app to a different configuration. Ie- in a *nix config, I can simply point my apps to different config files and this adjusts runtime accordingly. Pretty nice for testing as well (much easier than attempting to locate a config key, export from registry, make a change, run it.. see if it works, reimport the reg key, yada yada..).

            4. Lots of data loaded un-necessarily. The registry contains a LOT of information. Configs for apps I use infrequently still are loaded and still need to be dealt with (a source of general slowdown).

            5. No ability to add comments to particular settings (ie a comment line in a text config file).

            6. AFAIK, no built-in versioning control (can't see how the registry has changed over time)

            Having said all that .. I do like the fact the registry provides a standard interface for configuration data (versus various config file formats when dealing with text configs). Though I would like to see separate registry files for each app (ie a user config, system-wide config) so I have the ability to see *exactly* what config settings a particular app uses and modifies.

            • Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:5, Interesting)

              by Marc_Hawke ( 130338 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @08:52PM (#15464051)
              The software our company writes uses the registry to store settings. However, the customers that buy our software like to lock down their users to where they have to 'write' access to ANYTHING, especially the registry.

              The two are incompatable. It's a constant barage from Customer Support trying to tell Development to "get the heck out of the registry."

              Of course, our other product writes to text files...and we are constantly having to tell people to give write access to those text files. And finally, another product writes to files that are stored in the users space. (Flavor of the day is "C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\application\" Have fun walking a non-techy user through checking that. (Especially since it's typically hidden by default.)

              I guess there's no way to win...but we've definitely 'lost' the most when using the registry.

        • ...but keep in mind that Vista has much more of a driver base than linux.

          Wrong. Windows may have more driver *support* in some cases, but those drivers don't come packaged with Windows. Linux supports more hardware out of the box than any other OS.

          Also, vista has GUIs of almost all windows versions (classic, standard, xp, and aero; not sure if this takes up any space, but it is possible)

          And most Linux distros will package at least KDE and Gnome, along with Windowmaker, Enlightenment, Fluxbox, Blackbox

    • 10 gigs may not be huge, but 10 gigs of eye candy is.

      A normal/basic Linux distro (e.g. Ubuntu) installs to about 2 GB. You can add tons of stuff to that, but they are all useful applications, not fluff. And you sure don't need 2 GB of RAM to run them.
    • Yup, but these come with an advanced image editor, various programming languages, compilers, kernel source code, a couple of mail clients, a pack of browsers and a dozen media players. Vista doesn't have lots of these (at least as I understand).

    • Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jlarocco ( 851450 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @04:00PM (#15463019) Homepage

      Comparing full install size of Vista to a large Linux distro is apples to oranges.

      Yes, some of the large Linux distros are huge, multi-CD behemoths. But they include just about every piece of free software under the sun. For your comparison convenience, here's a list of programs usually included with a mega-distro:

      • Compilers (gcc, g++, gnat, fortran, perl, python, ruby, ocaml, haskell, lisp, scheme, awk, ...)
      • Office suite (OpenOffice, KOffice, ...)
      • Several word processors (OpenOffice, KOffice, Abiword, LaTex...)
      • Spread sheet program (Gnumeric, OpenOffice, Koffice, ...)
      • Databases (MySQL, PostgreSQL, OpenOffice's Access equivalent, ...)
      • Dev environments (KDevelop, Anjuta, emacs, vi[m], eclipse, ...)
      • Graphics (Gimp, ImageMagick, [x|g|k]pdf, ...)
      • 3D graphics (POV-Ray, KPovmodeler, blender, ...)
      • Debuging tools (gdb, cachegrind, ...)
      • Java development tools (gcj, jdk[not in strictly free distros], eclipse, ...)
      • Mathematical/scentific tools (GnuPlot, Kalzium, KmPlot, Latex, ...)
      • Window managers (XFCE, KDE, Gnome, WindowMaker, IceWM, Enlightenment ...)
      • Web browsers (Opera, Firefox, Mozilla, lynx, links, w3m, ...)
      • Mail clients (Opera, Thunderbird, Evolution, KMail, Mozilla mail...)
      • Network tools (ethereal, tcpdump, wget, ...)
      • Drivers for just about everything (not everything, but a surprisingly large selection)
      • Text editors (Emacs, Vim, pico, nano, gedit, jedit, ...)
      • Multimedia (Xine, MPlayer, XMMS, ...)
      • Tens of thousands of other apps

      That's a fraction of what you get with a distro like Suse, Mandriva, or Debian.

      Now, a list of what you get with a full Vista install:

      • Window Manager (only 1)
      • Games (Solitaire, Minesweeper, ...)
      • Basic network tools (Internet connection wizard, ...)
      • Basic drivers (See /. article from a week or two ago)
      • Graphics (paint)
      • Internet (Internet Explorer)
      • Email (Outlook express)
      • Word processing (Wordpad)
      • Text editor (Notepad)
      • Multimedia (Windows Media Player)

      Notice something? Nobody uses Paint. Nobody uses Wordpad. Nobody uses Notepad. Nobody uses Outlook Express. Nobody plays Solitaire and Minesweeper. For most intents, Windows is just a 10 gig OS. If you want to do anything useful, you have to install other programs.

      A full install of a large Linux distro has programs for just about anything someone might want to do on a computer, and it's actually useful software. If it didn't include AbiWord already, I'd go download it. If Windows didn't have Wordpad, I wouldn't care.

      But I run Slackware. It's 2 CDs - a full install is less than 3 GB, and comes with word processors, latex, compilers, debuggers, network tools, 4 window managers, XMMS, and some other stuff. It's very useable, comes with a hell of a lot more stuff than Windows, and is less than 1/4th the size for a full install.

      • Notice something? Nobody uses Paint. Nobody uses Wordpad. Nobody uses Notepad. Nobody uses Outlook Express. Nobody plays Solitaire and Minesweeper.
        Why would anybody wrap so much verbiage that's apparently intended seriously around such a blatant troll? Worst of all, you forgot Space Cadet!. Sheesh.

      • Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:4, Funny)

        by TheDreadSlashdotterD ( 966361 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @04:12PM (#15463072) Homepage
        Nobody plays Solitaire and Minesweeper

        You obviously don't have relatives.

      • Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:4, Informative)

        by EvanED ( 569694 ) <{evaned} {at} {gmail.com}> on Saturday June 03, 2006 @04:43PM (#15463191)
        Compilers (gcc, g++, gnat, fortran, perl, python, ruby, ocaml, haskell, lisp, scheme, awk, ...)

        To be fair, the .Net framework (at least one version will almost certainly included with Vista) has compilers for C++, C#, and VB.Net.

        Basic drivers (See /. article from a week or two ago)

        Which article?

        Nobody uses Paint. Nobody uses Wordpad. Nobody uses Notepad. Nobody uses Outlook Express. Nobody plays Solitaire and Minesweeper.

        That's a big BS. Maybe Wordpad. But paint; people use that sometimes. I personally use Notepad all the freaking time.* So do many people I know. I'll occasionally play Solitare and Minesweeper. I'm pretty sure some people use Outlook.

        I'm not disputing your overall point which is that comparing a Linux distro to Vista sizewise is a stupid comparison, but you're being *slightly* unfair to Windows here.

        *I was using Notepad++ instead of Notepad, but then I had to reinstall Windows (and everything else) when my hard drive I guess decided that it was tired of spinning, and I've never reassociated .txt files with Notepad++ because Notepad works just as well as Notepad++ would for them.
        • To be fair, the .Net framework (at least one version will almost certainly included with Vista) has compilers for C++, C#, and VB.Net. ...but I should clarify something. There's space taken up by compiler logic even in the standard .net redistributable, however I don't think the command line tools go along with it (unless you get the .net SDK), so you need to install a 3rd party tool in order to take advantage of it. Go figuire.
      • How can you say no one uses paint and notepad? Those are the two most reliable windows apps, and I use them on a regular basis. Well, at least notepad if I'm jotting down a quick phone number or something.

        Actually I guess these days I use nano for that, but when I used windows regularly they were useful :)
      • Whoa. Don't knock the mighty notepad.

        It's the one application I can't live without. Ever try to copy and paste from one "rich" app to another? Notepad to the rescue! It strips off that font color / background color / font size in a flash. Oh, and don't get me started about calc. I love that thing. I stopped hunting for my calculator somewhere in the 90's and never looked back.

        Besides, it's more like (cut 'n pasting with calc: (40-15)= ) 25 GIGS!

        A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least [microsoft.com]

      • Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Jugalator ( 259273 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @07:39PM (#15463828) Journal
        Yes, some of the large Linux distros are huge, multi-CD behemoths. But they include just about every piece of free software under the sun. For your comparison convenience, here's a list of programs usually included with a mega-distro

        Yes, but much of the reason the Vista install has grown is because they're including much more bundles in this one than before, so yes, Linux may include even more, but the reason both grows is the same. Vista will compared to XP also include: a search based on Windows Desktop Search, Windows Defender, Windows SideShow, Windows Calendar, Windows Photo Gallery, Windows DVD Maker, Windows Collaboration, BitLocker, new games (Chess, Mahjong, Purble Place), Services for UNIX.

        So it's unfair to say that it's unfair to say that only Linux is gaining size from bundles. ;-)

        Personally, I thought the idea of overly many bundles were idiotic, Windows and Linux editions/distros alike.

        Instead release free/cheap "Addon Packs" to order on CD's for those who want, or via a slick OS integration for direct downloads if you have a good connection. For Linux/Windows to assume that everyone should want the bundled Movie Maker or other esoteric applications is just plain stupid IMHO.
  • Someone needs to tell Tom's that you can fit more than 10 article words per Web page, even if 99% of it is advertising.
  • This new operating system is huge: it has more than 37,800 files, taking up a total of 10 GB.

    When you make a sci-fi, you can brag how many frames have CG and how many special fx shots you have, but this is just wrong I tell ya...
  • 10GB for just the operating system is just plain ridiculous. Take practically any Linux distribution, you will have a full installation of the OS, assorted userland utilities, scores of server and desktop applications (hundreds if you count them by component), and a whole slew of games and still struggle to reach 10GB. Ditto for OS/X.

    Okay, so the beta as ships is compiled in debug mode, so the final release won't be 10GB; assume an average of 30% overhead for debug hooks (that's a generous figure). That w
    • So it uses 3$ worth of hdspace.
      Thats really the deciding factor of a 200$+ OS.

      Btw: you realize that its the "kitchen sink" version with all crap, too? Including for example the Media Player edition? How much disk space does iDVD, for example, use again in a full install, as a point of comparison?
    • My System and Library folders on Mac OS X occupy 7 GB. It is practically only native Apple stuff going in there. Add a number of applications, and you are up to 8 GB, standard installation.

      Much of it has to do with "internationalization", having language resources (help files, menus whatever) in some fifty major languages. Hard core 7-bit people can get rid of this, but for many of us this is very very practical.
    • What's the big deal? Hard disk space is ridiculously cheap and computers that aren't used for heavy music/video have gobs of unused space (those that do, meanwhile, will have vast HDs on the order of 300gb). Can't you find anything important to complain about?
      • You've got to spend more time with laptops. The IBM X41 tablet has a max hard drive offering of 60GB. Using 1/6 of the hard drive for the OS is ridiculous, especially when you take into account another 500 megs at least of swap. Together that's almost 18% of the hard drive.
        • I still don't see the problem. So that leaves 40Gb free. I've just spent 3 years using a laptop with a 15Gb hard drive and I did everything I wanted with it except video --- games, music, programming, image editing. If you really need more space, cheap USB hard drives are available.
    • With Windows 95 you had a reasonably large system, with a lot going into it, but it was unstable and crashed all the time.

      So they started introducing redundancy, including the .cab files for the original installation, allowing the system to be repaired with the original files at the expense of keeping the original files around.

      Then they added system backup points, which backup huge chunks of the system across multiple points automatically, functionally doubling the size of the installation.

      I'm guessing they
    • Does Vista have custom install? I noticed in Windows XP there isn't a custom install. I don't care about XP's games and things like that. I don't remember if 2000 and Me could do that too. I know 95 and 98 could. I want custom install!
    • My current xp install is about 3gb for the OS. The one thing MS is ok at is backwards compatibility, so I will assume they will leave most of the previous functions as options instead of just rewriting them (I really have no idea as I have not used vista). So I will assume anything they add will be additional.

      So what do we have additional:
      new network stack
      new GUI
      new indexing
      spyware/defender stuff
      couple of additional programs
      plus a few things I'm likely missing.

      Assuming the GUI uses a variety of different te
      • The one thing MS is ok at is backwards compatibility,

              Only when it suits them. Have you tried most MS-DOS games in XP? Oh yeah good thing that Microsoft wrote "DOSBox"...(/sarcasm)

    • Re:10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:5, Informative)

      by Skuld-Chan ( 302449 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @05:37PM (#15463429)
      Ditto for OS/X.

      Not true at all. The default install for my G5 was well over 10 gigs on OSX 10.4.x.
      • Yeah, but that includes iLife, which is preinstalled with every mac. And there the amount of space is even justified because Sound loops for garage band, templates for iMovie and iDVD just take space.

        But there is nothing like that in Vista.

  • I have to say that this IE7 feaure [tomshardware.com] of previewing tabs (similar to how Expose previews windows) is pretty cool... anyone know of anyone using this in the context of a tabbed program before?

  • Not only a dupe, but... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TheNetAvenger ( 624455 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @03:31PM (#15462882)
    Not only is this story a repeat, but it is worth mentioning that the Tom's review is basically pictures of the OS with almost NO technical details on Vista. They even are incorrect on features of DirectX 10 in the review.

    All these 'wonderful' reviews running around on Vista, and still none exist that talk about the OS itself, all the reviews are doing is throwing up some pictures of the desktop and talking about AERO.

    For example have you yet seen a review that mentions key points of the new OS of things that changed, like kernel changes, new memory management, new process scheduling, how the Video Driver is moved up from kernel level to user level, but still getting kernel level performace or even anytyhing on the vector based composer that is behind the AERO or WPF?

    Nope...

    Until you see these types of reviews, all you are going to get is a taste of the freaking eye candy and nerds going, "Here is the control panel" (Picture)

    • All these 'wonderful' reviews running around on Vista, and still none exist that talk about the OS itself, all the reviews are doing is throwing up some pictures of the desktop and talking about AERO.

      Um...thats all thats new in the OS. Shiny desktop, pretty pictures, lots of annoying security dialogs.
  • Under Windows XP, I normally keep the C: drive partition small (lately, 20GB) to make making an disk image easier. Applications and data are stored on a different partition, and a FUBAR partition for storing disk images. Since the specs for Vista is a minimum 40GB with 10GB free, I'm kinda wondering if I should let Vista take the whole 250GB hard drive and just get another hard drive for applications and data. Any ideas on how to handle this space hog?

  • File count is not a measure of OS size (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 03, 2006 @03:41PM (#15462924)

    "it has more than 37,800 files"

    For comparison: my Mac (Mac OS X 10.4.6) has:

    • about 78000 files in /System
    • about 100000 files in /Library
    • about 40000 files in /usr
    • about 65000 files in /Developer
    • about 110000 files in /Applications (this includes third-party apps I installed)
    The lesson you should learn from this is that the number of files is not really a meaningful indicator of the complexity of a system.
  • Here are one of the ways Microsoft is trying to sell the fritz chip [tomshardware.com] as a good thing.

    Funny I thought drm was not required to encrypt a drive? Oh yeah, all the components will have a trust relationship to lock data from the user and to force upgrades as windows will refuse to run if you change more than 2 or 3 things without paying for it again.

  • HDD Space (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Konster ( 252488 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @03:43PM (#15462937)
    Really, a 10GB install isn't that bad, considering that I can get a weenie 250GB drive for $80, and it doesn't even make a dent in the new 750GB drive.

    Laptop users may have a valid whine, with low-end drives at 40GB, mid-range at 80GB or so, but I'd expect that a notebook install wouldn't take that much on a low-end product.

    I'm not fond of the Microsoft Vista Ultimate Extreme De Luxe Ultra version that's a complete system-resources orgy that wants a few GB or so of RAM or a UI that makes my Geforce run at a good % of max for a good slice of time et cetera.

    On the plus side, MS Vista will be shipping (eventually) with a copy of Duke Nukem Forever.
    • Really, a 10GB install isn't that bad, considering that I can get a weenie 250GB drive for $80, and it doesn't even make a dent in the new 750GB drive.

      LAPTOPS! Why does everyone forget about laptops?

      The largest 2.5" drive Newegg sells is 160 GB. And that's $224. Some other samples:
      100GB starts at $109
      60GB starts at $70

      Even with the 100 gig drive, that's 10% going to your OS! I don't know about you, but that seems a bit large.

      And the problem's worse if you don't look at buying drives separately. The IBM X41

  • 40 pages? (Score:4, Funny)

    by DSP_Geek ( 532090 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @03:45PM (#15462946)
    Every goddamn article in Tom's is stretched out over way too many pages, no exceptions. Until they change that policy, they're dead to me. I have better things to do with my time than banging on the Next link like an ADHD 6 year old in front of a whack-a-mole game.
  • Are you kidding? All this talk about card games and "we don't even have a design for admin privleges, but it'll 'just work' when we ship" is laughable. They need something a little more compelling to bother to read these articles ( duped or not ). I'm sure a lot of people will get vista reguardless of any factors due to the OEM preinstalls, but why does anyone care about new card games/eye candy/etc?

    Someone make a real article comparing vista to xp or vista to ubuntu.
  • I'm going to click on 40 freakin' Web pages just to read their review - and their ads - they're out of their goddamn minds.

    Learn to put stuff that big in a PDF and make it available for download - or at least one big HTML page.

    Idiots.

  • Oh, give me a break. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by vought ( 160908 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @04:05PM (#15463044)
    Tom's Hardware is running a 500 hour Windows Vista review that spreads out 40 pages

    Another Tom's Hard-On review with two paragraphs per page that stretches out to 40 pages is supposed to be thorough because it is long?

    You think MAYBE it has something to do with the thick coating of ads all over TH's pages? I mean, they could have put it all on two pages or even one if they'd wanted.

    Is somebody at Tom's paying you guys to post these dupes about hard-to-read articles that add little insight to the pool of knowledge about Vista?

  • Trick for Tom's -- append "print.html" to URL (Score:4, Informative)

    by novafire ( 263854 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @04:11PM (#15463069)
    I learned this from a post on another Tom's related link on /.

    Just append print.html to end of the Tom's URL and get the one page print article.

    I figure if the article is a dupe, might as well dupe any useful comments, right?
    • Wasn't there a point in ancient history when Tom's hardware was actually, you know, good?

      I vaguely remember accessible but technical articles, which talked about important things. Hardware hackery that showed exactly what an individual with a soldering iron could do if they were so inclined. Articles that were written for people who had a clue.

      How long ago was that?

  • Reminds me of a high school term project... (Score:4, Informative)

    by divisionbyzero ( 300681 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @04:57PM (#15463255)
    Lots of pictures but not a lot of text... If he removed the screenshots, he could have fit it all on one page! Of course some people *LOVE* screenshots. So, I guess you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Damn you, Tom!

  • Very unbiased review... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Warlock7 ( 531656 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @05:27PM (#15463384)
    ...it outshine its Linux and Mac OS competitors.
    This isn't because of the fact that it steals most of it's features from those competing products? Then again, with beautiful non-buggy windows that look like this [tomshardware.com], who could argue?
    ...we're still dealing with a relatively early beta version.
    Wow, after, what is it now, seven years? It's an EARLY beta version?!?!?! Daniel Schuhmann needs to get his head out in the light more often because something is affecting his brain up in that dark damp place he's got it now.

    It's amazing that a "hardware" company like Apple can roll out a new OS nearly every year while it takes a "software" company like Microsoft seven to steal all of Apple's ideas... :P

  • Here is your fix. (Score:2, Informative)

    by Tama00 ( 967104 )
    I think this review sucks but for you guys who want to read it..
    http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/31/windows_vis ta/print.html [tomshardware.com]

    Tada!
    Its on one page :) and much more readable.
  • My experience with Vista started with build 5308, then tried 5365 and now 5384. Typically in Windows, I run firefox, thunderbird, battlefield 2 and starcraft as my main apps. Then there are the various media players, winamp with the clearone beta theme, itunes, and windows media player. My Windows XP experience has been relatively flawless. Sometimes I yearn for Mac OS's zen like simplicity and features like expose, but otherwise XP runs great on MY computer, meaning my computer doesn't run anything el
  • Vista doesn't represent enough of an improvement for me to make the jump, at least not now. Considering I waited 6 years to go from Windows 2000 to XP this should be no surprise at all.

    I'm particularly incensed that MS once again failed miserably on the innovation side and copied feature for feature from Firefox. That's probably a clear sign that they're on the precipice of their downfall. They've stopped innovating.

  • What took 500 hours? (Score:3, Funny)

    by frdmfghtr ( 603968 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @07:56PM (#15463893)
    Was it the screen captures? Maybe all that cutting and pasting took 500 hours.

  • Microsoft Appliance (Score:3, Insightful)

    by NullProg ( 70833 ) on Saturday June 03, 2006 @08:59PM (#15464069) Homepage Journal
    Windows isn't a generic OS anymore. You can't program your own devices. You have no control over what drivers are loaded. You can't delve into the inner chamber of ring 1 or 2. Vista means 'You can't get there from here'. Welcome to the world of centralized computing. A Mainframe on your desktop/laptop. Instead of being controled by IT, your computer is controlled by Microsoft.

    Its not a personal computer if you don't have full control over it. Its a Microsoft approved appliance.

    My two cents.
    Enjoy,

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