Do You Have a PC Posture? 163
prostoalex writes "PC Magazine takes a look at 'PC posture' and the problems associated with the workstyles of those who spend hours in front of the PC. They talk about proper sitting styles, the erroneous name of 'wrist rest,' monitor height and the need for periodic exercises to help alleviate potential repetitive stress injuries."
Nonesense! (Score:5, Funny)
Now, if only I could stop forcing my kids to pedal whilst I sit back I might actually lose some weight.
Oh great! (Score:2)
Re:slashdot's posture (Score:1)
2 articles from prostoalex spamming his scams (Score:5, Interesting)
he must be working overtime
as the previous article by "hdtv" domain (PLASMA-HDTV-PRICES.COM) is registered to Alex Moskalyuk aka prostoalex, along with the blog submitted on ZDnet is also Alex [zdnet.com]
so he registers a load of domains and then pretends to be different unrelated submitters in order to hawk his scam of the week, i guess ZDnet doesnt pay that well
Re:2 articles from prostoalex spamming his scams (Score:3, Informative)
yeah. I do :( (Score:5)
Your wrists arched back? Yes
How about your neck: Is it craned forward? Yes
Is your back aligned with your chair back? Yes. Is this bad?
Are your feet flat on the floor? Yes. This is bad too??!!
Re:yeah. I do :( (Score:1)
Your wrists arched back? no
How about your neck: Is it craned forward? Yes
Is your back aligned with your chair back? Yes
Are your feet flat on the floor? no, feet up on the table whilst my nutts roast
Proper posture (Score:3, Insightful)
I should probably have carpal tunnel by now, considering how much I use computers at work and at home. Yet it's the people who aren't very into computers and only do data entry at work that seem to get it.
Re:yeah. I do :( (Score:2)
Re:yeah. I do :( (Score:2)
Re:yeah. I do :( (Score:2)
Re:Consider the jihad (Score:1, Offtopic)
OK, while I'm all for fucking with Slashdot as much as anyone, have posted trolls in the past and always browse at -1, I just don't understand this statement. How does reposting garbage "force" anyone to do anything? What does your reposting garbage have to do with ethical lapses? Is it ethical to waste time? Is it ethical to bring down somebody else's
Re:Consider the jihad (Score:2)
Re:Consider the jihad (Score:3, Insightful)
Since you're apparently desperate for us to pay attention to you today, let's rephrase that.
MOD PARENT UP +5 INSIGHTFUL (Score:1)
Re:Consider the jihad (Score:2)
Thanks for playing,
Re:Consider the jihad (Score:2, Offtopic)
Yeah, but not as tired as I am of spammers like you. Four spams to the same article [slashdot.org]? That's pretty lame.
Also, your site looks like some kind of silly troll hangout (judging by your About page and your forum). You can't expect anyone to take your grievances seriously with such an ugly site with unprofessional information and focus, and seedy members.
Here's an idea: You have a web site. Why not turn it into what you think Slashdot should be, instead of some worthless hive
Re:Consider the jihad (Score:2, Offtopic)
Are you tired of slashdot's editors?
Yes, they make mistakes. Don't we all?
Check out anti-slash!
Okay. It looks like a site that was intentionally designed to tick people off. Oh wait - that's what trolls do.
While you're there, check out the database tool here.
I will admit - that's a neat piece of work. It's a shame it is only being used to break the moderation system.
That's right. Moderation is broken because the likes of you intentionally try to break it to prove a point.
With the database
Re:Consider the jihad (Score:2)
Moderation 0
50% Offtopic
50% Insightful
Exactly my point about your "censored thread". My post was indeed offtopic, just like the FSTPI.
Re:They are guilty (Score:2)
Your link is about the infamous First Slashdot Troll Post Investigation, not about banning moderators.
But let's discuss that thread anyway. A plurality of the mods were Offtopic mods, and the post indeed had nothing to do with Oracle. So you are suggesting that we should shoot someone for being right? Also, there is no solid evidence that a mod blacklist even exists. [pudge.net]
One more thing about your "censored thread." This "injustice" which caused you to start your pathetic little holy war was an investigati
Re:Consider the jihad (Score:2)
And are you still there? I haven't received a reply to my latest post on this thread. I must have indisputably proven you wrong, and you must have cowardly crawled away like the pathetic troll you are. I win.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oblig. (Score:2)
Taking breaks at work (Score:5, Funny)
my posture (Score:2, Funny)
Re:my posture (Score:1)
I must comfortably, too. Wihtout verb.
Re:my posture (Score:1)
Re:my posture (Score:5, Funny)
Ummm... I don't think that's a *POSTURE* problem, but perhaps a *VIEWING* issue...
Article's missing something (Score:3, Funny)
Slumped back in chair, head tilted towards screen, body rigid except for wrists and fingers.
Trying to correct that is like trying to find a cure for the neurotic cat.
Re:Article's missing something (Score:1)
http://www.shotgunworld.com/ [shotgunworld.com]
KFG
Re:Article's missing something (Score:1)
Nope, I was wrong. You're still really fucking lame.
Re:Article's missing something (Score:1)
KFG
Re:Article's missing something (Score:2)
Trying to correct that is like trying to find a cure for the neurotic cat.
Kitty Prozac(TM) [www.pets.ca] (or, in the case of this article, Anafranil(TM))?
Odd (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, about halfway through the article I saw the following:
"A new study suggests many workers would forego higher salaries in favor of an improved work-life balance and career advancement opportunities. Click here to read more.
And the entire sentence was a link to this [yahoo.com] site. Was that link an ad to another of their articles? How in the hell was that relevant to this article? There was some more link trickery throughout the page as well. Honestly, this story read more like something on Askmen.com than something from an actual news organization.
Actually (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Actually (Score:4, Funny)
My posture is usually leaning to one side so I can check out female co-workers' butts as they go by, and give whistles and cat-calls to the hot ones.
So I guess I don't have a PC posture.
Re:Actually (Score:3, Funny)
Standing, hands either typing, or feeding punch cards, while wanting to cover ears for the fan noise.
Relaxation (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Relaxation (Score:1)
"When you do this, your pelvis and back are aligned properly and it allows you to move easily in the chair," said Young.
The simplest, most direct and most effective means of accomplishing this to remove the back from your chair. You were designed to sit on a platform (like, for instance, the Earth). Without a back to lean against you naturally rely on your muscles to maintain proper spinal a
Re:Relaxation (Score:1)
As in specific persons, although the majority of those specific persons resided on the Indian subcontinent. The majority of people debunking people who continue the practice today also live on the Indian subcontinent and have my full support.
There is no such thing as "race," although there is certainly such a thing as religion; and yoga was developed out of certain religous philosophies, not scientific anatomy.
There is nothing wrong with using classical yoga se
Re:Relaxation (Score:1)
I know. I have studied it under Indians.
Enlightment itself is "superhuman" power, except for the fact that, like "race," there is no such thing in humans. If a human has the power, it is a human power.
One may achieve the "superhuman" ability to perform The Cobra position, if one is prepared to suffer permemant injury to the vertabrae to accomplish it.
The path to enlightment does not require this.
KFG
Re:Relaxation (Score:2)
Says someone whose name is "poopdeville".
Evidence? (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's a contrary hypothesis: carpal tunnel syndrome and chronic back pain are stress related. That's not to say they aren't real, it's to say that the primary contributory agent is stress. People in repetitive data entry employment may have stressful lifestyles. The stress may be partially caused by the job, or there may be some other non-causal association.
Now sitting differently -- or any other intervention -- may even cause a measurable improvement due to the Hawthorne effect. That's not proof that sitting one way or the other was the cause of the problem.
Exercise -- just getting up and walking, running, swimming, and so on -- probably has more effect than changing posture at the job. Whether that's physiological or psychological or, more likely, both, is unimportant; it works.
I encourage people to check out primary sources or research on these issues, not just statements from consultants who have something to gain from a particular point of view, or trade unions or employers or insurers who have somewhat different axes to grind.
[Says he slouched in bed with wrists heavily on laptop keyboard, who is about to go out for a jog, so as to prevent the chronic back pain that he has suffered from time to time in his life.]
Re:Evidence? (Score:1)
Your hypothesis is well founded, My other half has a serious back problem that may or may not have been started by horse riding BUT now it is trig
Re:Evidence? (Score:1)
KFG
Re:Evidence? (Score:1)
Re:Evidence? (Score:3, Informative)
News (Score:5, Funny)
Well, here's some news that might get you to sit straight up in your chair:
Shit this is gonna be intense... I knew it there's something in there I didn't know.
Along with the majority of the computer-facing population, you could be well on your way to developing a series of unsavory repetitive stress ailments such as carpal tunnel syndrome, postural syndrome, tendonitis and eye strain.
Wait, you promised me news, damn you. I WANT MY NEWS!!!
My dear old worn chair (Score:5, Funny)
It has been with me for the last 6 years, in which I have been sitting at the computer many hours every day in this chair.
I have often been thinking about replacing this chair and often people tell me to do so. So far I have not done this. Somehow I have an idea that this miserable chair helps me to avoid injuries.
One obvious things about this chair is that with me not sitting comfortable I often rise and move around for a little while before getting back at the computer, one thing that the article emphasises as being a good thing.
Another good thing is that this chair makes me change seatnig position all the time, without really thinking abuot it, the chair is not much diffrent than a stool I have a variety of ways of sitting at the chair that put the strain on diffrent places in my body.
I think I will stick with this worn chair until it totally falls apart after which I will go look for a similar old worn chair.
After all the countries where people sleep directly on the floor without soft mattresses like India back injuries were curiosly enough almost unknown until they started getting civilized sleeping in soft beds.
Is this news? (Score:1)
Well yeah. (Score:2)
Then when I want to use a laptop I tend to adopt a more erganomic posture such as this one [fluff.info].
The Shape I'm In (Score:3, Funny)
I did switch from CRT to LCD after about 10 years. And I use two very different action keyboards on my desk. And I refused to learn "touchtyping", preferring instead a John Entwhistle approach to 10-fingered hypersonic hunt and peck. But my PC rigs seem to have served more as exercise equipment than torture chamber. Maybe I'm just lucky to be born PC-shaped.
Re:The Shape I'm In (Score:2)
Maybe I'm just lucky to be born PC-shaped.
Moderation 0
50% Funny
50% Overrated
Maybe some TrollMods are just jealous.
we are not supposed to live longer than 40 years ! (Score:3, Interesting)
The actual truth is human being isn't designed to live more than 40 years old. So consequently, no matter the working position, there is potential for degenerative problems. It is only in the past 3000 years that people are living more than 40 years.
If we are always standing up, we'll have hip and knee problems; if we are always sitting down, we'll have vertebral column problems; if we are moving from one position to the other or always moving, we'll have tendinitis and bursitis problems.
So honestly, my conclusion is our musculoskeletal system isn't designed at all to work as long as our 2006 life expectancy.
Re:we are not supposed to live longer than 40 year (Score:1)
what kills us is a bad case of stupid
Re:we are not supposed to live longer than 40 year (Score:2, Insightful)
In most people the things you describe happen after they've reproduced so how could natural selection work on them?
Re:we are not supposed to live longer than 40 year (Score:3, Informative)
simplistic (Score:3, Informative)
Sorry, but that's wrong. Life expectancy may have been 35 or 40, but many individuals has lived twice as long; and those individuals have probably been very important in preliterate societies. In addition, 3000 years is plenty of time for big evolutionary changes.
Re:we are not supposed to live longer than 40 year (Score:4, Insightful)
A better 'average' lifespan is around 70. It's difficult to say, as many of the side effects of a modern industrialised society - poor diet, lack of exercise and chemical/toxic pollution drag us down just as modern medicine helps individuals live longer.
Your post also assumes a 'designer'. We've evolved like all animals, and part of the evolution that allows us to stand upright also involved bending the spine into a rather unusual shape, leaving us prone to lower back problems. We also have wear and tear on the joint surfaces (which usually starts kicking in seriously about 70). We have a number of evolutionary weaknesses, which have often been caused because they gave us an advantage in another way, or simply weren't detrimental enough to the population to be weeded out. There's no 'natural' age to live to though, it really just does depend upon luck and maintenance.
Shoulder/Back Brace (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Shoulder/Back Brace (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Shoulder/Back Brace (Score:1)
car accident trigger (Score:1)
the physio said something about bad posture making the effects of the crash worse... and my sitting at a comp all day has messed up my healing time im pretty sure.
Yes - weird (Score:1)
Re:Yes - weird (Score:1, Funny)
Hooray.
General lighting level (Score:1, Interesting)
good and bad (Score:5, Informative)
When my lower-back problems first arose, it was nearly impossible to get a doctor to do anything other than "take a couple advil". Next step was "take a couple vicodin". Or unhelpful or obvious advice like "lose some weight" (duh).
My problems got progressively worse year by year. Until last year, when I was hurt so bad I could barely work. Each time I had a hurt, it was extreme pain that would last 8-10 weeks, or more. I'd get x-rays, and the doctor would say there's nothing wrong. Sometimes I'd get chiropractic - which also did nothing to help the long-term problem.
FINALLY, a new doctor talked the insurance company into springing for an MRI. Degenerated L4-L5 disk (at this point, it had already been obvious). They talked about cortisone shots, but freinds I knew who had similar issues weren't helped. I've heard a lot of good things about surgery, where the bulging part of the disk was trimmed. But no doctor would do that unless I was physically impaired to the point where I could not walk, or lost bowel or bladder function. (I shit you not).
So it seemed as if I was doomed to keep experiencing these re-occurring episodes 2 to 3 times a year, with only reactionary treatment available, nothing preventative, nothing that would be a long term cure. Unless I paid for it myself and saw an out-of-network doctor.
I say this now: When the revolution comes, HMO accountants will be the first ones up against the wall. I swear, I will torture those motherfuckers until they beg for mercy. And then I'll keep torturing them.
Now, I had been sent to "physical therapists" before - heat treatments, microwave treatments, ultrasound treatments, traction, massage, etc. ALL a complete fucking waste of time.
Then, I saw one that specialized in sports-medicine, who simply proscribed a series of daily stretching excercise for my gluteals and hamstrings - that, coupled with an ergonomic workstation that allowed me to work standing-up during part of the day, then sitting for part of the day. These two things did more than anything else to help me.
Sit-stand tray and monitor stand.
Hamstring and gluteal stretches.
That's all.
I still have a lot of pain and stiffness, particularly in the morning. And I still get sciatic pinching symptoms like patches of numbness on my leg, or burning sensations. But for the most part, I don't get these injury-episodes anymore where I can barely walk for 8-10 weeks. The stretching is the factor that helps the most. If I had a curious doctor, I suppose I'd go in for another MRI to see if there was any effect on my degenerated disk. But that's never going to happen. Not with my current insurance.
One side-effect, though; I usually stand for about the first four hours of the day, then I sit. But this has started to cause some soreness in my knees and ankles now, and, my mouse-wrist, because of the change-in-angle when I'm standing, so fixing the wrist problem was just a matter of changing my keyboard angle when I go from sit-to-stand, and vice-versa.
I'm hoping that the knee and ankle issues will be relieved, since I began a light weight-training program at the advice of the physical therapist.
Re:good and bad (Score:1)
Would you please be so glad to tell me more details about the stretching you perform?
Really thanks.
Stretching Excercises (Score:2)
While I didn't write the comment you replied to, my story pretty much mirrors the parent poster. My problem started with an accident injuring my neck and shoulders and working on a computer most of the time didn't help the healing. He may post his stretching exercises but in case he doesn't, here are mine.
For each of these stretches, you won't be able to actually touch the body parts as listed but if you attempt it, the str
Re:Stretching Excercises (Score:2)
The back bridge exercise is very effective, although a little intimidating at first. See here [bodybuilding.com] for a good explanation of all the core exercises with photos. No weights, no gyms, a few minutes a day. Charles Atlas would have been impressed.
Re:good and bad (Score:2)
The hamstring stretch; I'll stand next to a waist-high table, couch back, or my bed (my bed sits up pretty high compared to most). I'll put one leg out, horizontally, and straight, and bring my head down toward my knee. Most people will say to try to keep your knee straight. I can't. I have very tight hamstrings. So I just do my best, and keep it mostly straight. It's not optimal stretching, but it's better than nothing.
The gluteal stretch; Lying on my back, I'll lift one knee, bent at about a 90-degree
Re:good and bad (Score:2)
My description of the hamstring stretch is how I'm doing it now. Not how I started. When I started, I was in a lot of pain. I would lie on my back, and had my wife lift one leg up, holding my knee semi-straight. We got about 30-degrees or so at firt, with my left leg (problem was worse on the left side). So I couldn't even put my leg up on a table or my bed back then. When I remember that and think back, I've made a lot of progress in range-of-motion.
Lower back pain sucks... (Score:3, Informative)
If your back pain gets so bad that a doctor reccommends "disc fusion" or similar, look into "artificial disc replacement". I first heard about this last year on NPR, but it looks like research and development of this technology has been going on for at least 20 years.
Unfortunately, I think they are still working on the surgical technique - the method described on NPR seemed to indicate that they had to operate from the abdominal side, moving y
Re:good and bad (Score:2)
Resolving lower back problems (Score:2)
Re:good and bad (Score:2)
Whoa. What stopped you from going to a Real Doctor? If I were in that much pain I'd mortgage my house to afford the proper medical advice if I couldn't afford it out of pocket.
I mean, given the choice between dropping some coin and exacting carnal revenge, one ought to favor the less bloody approach.
Re:good and bad (Score:2)
a convenient euphemism...? (Score:1, Funny)
Merck will save us (Score:1)
honestly... (Score:1)
Next time you have to take a long drive, try setting your seat upright. Move the seat forward until your fingers can reach the dash, set the height at a comfortable level and adjust the mirrors.
You'll probably find that you need to stop and stretch less often. Most travel-related back problems are easily cured this way.
United We Stand, Comfortably We Sit (Score:3, Informative)
I used to have a standing workstation [flickr.com], but once I started doing long hours (as in 10+) of work at home, that was no longer practical. But for as much as 4-6 hours a day, it’s awesome, especially for gaming. (This is the only point on which I agree with Rummy [wikipedia.org].)
Re:United We Stand, Comfortably We Sit (Score:2)
It's a spiral downwards (Score:2)
Yoga (Score:2, Interesting)
I have been dealing with computers for quite a numbers of years now. RSI, back and shoulder problems, eye strain, you name it, I've been throuh all. We are all bound to suffer of this as long as we keep on sitting in front of the computers both at work and at home.
The only real cure I've found for back problems is actually yoga. The classical yoga program takes no more than 1 hour to do and it stretches thoroughly most muscles in your back. Try it, join some yoga courses and be constant for several months (
Automatic Rest Breaks (Score:3, Interesting)
I use WorkRave [workrave.org] to force myself to take regular breaks and get my "10 to 12 seconds" of wrist relief.
The program can be a real pain when it's getting late and I'm rushing to meet a deadline--but this is where I need it most... You can configure "micro-breaks" as described above, longer rest breaks and even a daily limit. And the program is smart enough to only calculate the time you are actually on the system.
Try it out--it's free software and has Linux and windows versions available for download [workrave.org].
Re:Automatic Rest Breaks (Score:2)
I use ADD to force myself to take regular breaks...
There is no posture better than another (Score:1)
Low writers.... (Score:1)
I'll let the readers figure out why this guy is so lame...
PC? (Score:1)
recline (Score:2)
Use a Swiss ball (Score:2, Interesting)
Depth (Score:3, Interesting)
Fortunately, the shift to LCDs should free up another foot or more of space on people’s desks. And hopefully their reduced size and weight will cause more people start mounting them [flickr.com] on walls or articulated arms. Oddly enough, bringing your focal point up to eye level does wonders for the neck (and probably the eyes as well).
Aching back... (Score:1, Informative)
At last year's MacWorld Expo, I picked up this really need strap like device that goes around my lower back, and front of my knees, then I lean forward and pull it tight, then as I lean back, my lower back gets amazing support. I sometimes feel things getting "adjusted" inside and my chiropractor has mentioned a significant improvement. I can now sit about 3 - 4 hours longer with less discomfort by usin
Nerd Hunch (Score:2)
Thank goodness for corporate ergonomics efforts, or I'd be a crippled hunchback by now.
My Posture... (Score:2)
Rx lenses (Score:2)
Stand-up Desk (Score:2, Interesting)
I have found that standing at my desk all day eleminates all the hunching over problems. I can rest my arms on the desk, I can bounce my legs and move around all day as I am working. Compared to bouncing my legs endlessly while sitting.
Of course my friends initially made fun of me, saying "Dude that is way high, what did you do? Screw up when measuring before bui
Why jocks should grow up to program computers (Score:5, Interesting)
But carpal tunnel is very different. I have had friends fall victim to this, and I've seen them point to all manner of things to deny what seems totally obvious to me, and yet what I see no press play about: A lot of people who spend their time at a desk are not football players. They have not trained themeselves for years to be strong. That's just an observation, not a criticism. The weakest among us often prefer desk jobs. And some of them end up victim to the fact that desk jobs have their physical stresses.
At the risk of angering my insurance company, I should say that for 30 years I've sat with posture that is not perfect. I've rested my hands on my desk. I've worked long hours. And my typing is fine. Yet others I've known haven't survived 2 years of light typing. Why the difference? I can't believe it's typing.
Looking around at those who do and those who don't, I see weak-wristed people who have problems and strong-wristed people who don't. What did I do as a kid? I swam (with my arms, never kicking enough) competitively for a number of years. I bowled, using at least one wrist heavily. And I played baseball--again sport that uses the wrist. I played volleyball (lots of wrist there) and ping-pong (same). I did tetherball (very strong wrist use). And I loved the horizontal bar (pullups, and pulling my whole body over the bar). It doesn't surprise me, then, that as an adult, my wrists had nice broad cord strength going through whatever the bone structure was there. My arms were always very strong, and it's served me well programming. Probably plenty for a robust typing life.
If you're a kid, or you know one, or have one, who wants to be into computers, I recommend sports. And particular those sports--the ones about wrists. I just don't see the problem. Then again, typing itself from an early age may well build a generation of kids whose bones grow up knowing they'll need this strength. So it may just be those who are late to learn typing that end up with the problem. Still, a bit of swimming and those other things won't have hurt you any...
Maybe what I'm advocating is less PC style posture, and more Mac-style posture, since the Mac commercials seem to be more about getting out and doing physical things with your computer on your belt...
Err, scrotum? (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:Posture (Score:2)
I'