Why First Generation Apple Products Suck 148
mmAPP writes "CoolTechZone.com has an article up that pleads with Apple to focus on its quality assurance before releasing new products. From the article: 'If anything, I think Apple should do a better job at quality assurance than Dell, HP or other OEMs that deal with more units than Apple. The benefit of being a considerably small company (in comparison to other OEMs) is to focus on delivering quality products. There's no denying that Apple is perhaps one of the most innovative companies when it comes to consumer electronics, but ignoring quality as a result is not something it needs to ignore.'"
Show^W Give me the money (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, Apple aren't perfect, but let's face it, who is ? Not that I'm at all religious, but I'm fairly sure there's some mention of "let him without fault throw the first stone" in some old book somewhere. Ok, so everyone has an opinion, hell there's no reason why you should listen to me - bitch if that's what floats your boat; but to do it purely to provide profit via another vector *does* annoy me. One more site to ignore from now on...
I'm sure pretty-much every company does their level best, within some budget, to give their customers the best experience - it's only good business sense. I think Apple actually do *better* at that than most. Shame the nay-sayers disagree...
Not to mention that the logic is
For what it's worth, I gave my sister a nano, she's an air stewardess, and it travels a lot, stuffed in a handbag along with loads of other luggage (tardis-like, in fact - another story...). Yes there are some (small) scratches on it, but no more than any of the other plastic items she carries - significantly less than her credit cards, for example. Yes, it's only one data-point, but the pictures of the unusable screens that were floating about the internet seem maliciously-driven to me - you'd have to take a scourer to the surface to get it that bad...
Simon
Apple's QA... (Score:5, Insightful)
Where first-gen Apple products do have issues is not with QA, but with design stubornness. They used the scratchy ipod plastic not because they didn't know it was scratchy, but because Steve liked the look of it. The heat issues are not an issue of "whoops! look at that, processors produce heat!" They know that the machines will run hot, but want to keep the sleek form factor anyway.
All in all, I think Apple products have few overall bugs, but the tight design all around makes those few design flaws stick out like sore thumbs. (damn you, TiBook hinges!)
Innovation (Score:2, Insightful)
When I say innovation, I am not suggesting the iPod as a product is innovative. Or the MacBook as a laptop is innovative. I mean more towards specifc features and functions.
The screen used on the Nano, for example. Nobody tried putting it on a MP3 player before. Someone at Apple thought it would hold up. Oops. Guess not.
One approach would be to take the Dell route. Only incorporate technologies already proven by someone else. Well, that lacks the innovative spirit that is driving Apple's products. (Again their specific products may not be innovative, it is the feature they incorporate.)
My panties went too far up my hynee (Score:3, Insightful)
don't think Apple should focus on increasing its market share. Apple is not responsible enough to handle a small (I use this term loosely) group of users; do we really expect them to be a mainstream company? Apple will always have a great market share because of their marketing and they've been mainstream since Billy boy was stealing Xerox codes.
Is it me or does this author sound like a disgruntled Apple enduser. Perhaps a Dell employee or other corporate shmoo.
Troll (Score:5, Insightful)
His "questions" he'd like to ask sound exactly like "Have you stopped beating your dog?"
Do you really do real world testing on early adopters?
Why is it that nearly all products you unveil are plagued with serious setbacks?
Why is your quality assurance department so incompetent?
Do you ever learn your lesson from previous mistakes?
If so, how do you correct them? If not, why not?
Could you please admit that you will continue to release products with serious flaws in the near future (that will at least give us something to count on)?
I concur with this (Score:1, Insightful)
You know what an apple employee told me when i said my hard drive in my powerbook died after 2.5 years?
"Laptop drives die between 2.5 and 3 years after use, it's normal"
Overheating in all their laptops^Wportables (no longer can be called laptops)
chipped paint off the latch button, whine sounds,need to repair permissions after each update (why macs need this?)...
Where's the old "macs cost more because they are made for better components, and last longer so you don't have to upgrade often" line i was getting 3 years ago in this forum?
Mac quality isn't superior anymore.
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:5, Insightful)
I know my expectations were very high when I bought my MBP. FWIW, my 17 inch MBP has none of the problems reported about the 15 inch model. It is quiet and runs relatively cool. Much cooler in fact than the 17 HP notebook it replaced.
Dell.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:1, Insightful)
And it makes the problems with AppleDontCare stick-out even more. It really sucks to own a 17" PowerBook that doesn't work well. It looks great, but with a bad inverter board it only runs only on slow. Unfortunately AppleDontCare doesn't consider that a serious problem. After fighting with them for over a year for permission to send it back (should have just called American Express at the time to do a chargeback!), they've had it for over six weeks. The web page at https://support.apple.com/repairstatus/ [apple.com] still says "Status: Diagnosing product". They sent the box from Elk Grove next day with DHL. The process started quickly, but unfortunately that's where that ended. Apple, after your customers spend $3,300 (with AppleCare and extra RAM) on a laptop, we expect good service. It's a laptop with a great design that makes your horrible service stand-out even more. Even if you spend less to make less sleek new products, please please fix your damn service problems.
More Press Coverage != More Problems (Score:3, Insightful)
So let me get this straight, this guy is arguing that because he's read a lot about first generation Apple products being buggy, they are not doing as good of a job as everyone else? And he has no numbers to back this up? And we're just supposed to assume he's right?
Apple products get more press coverage. They are high profile and do a better job attracting the press than most other manufacturers. They also tend to be more cutting edge than is average and since many users want OS X and there is only one practical source of hardware that runs OS X, people care about their releases. Thus, when there is a problem, everyone hears about it. Does that mean they have more problems? Independent reviews of their hardware reliability put them at or near the top of the heap. This is despite releasing more "cutting edge" features that can't benefit from the mistakes of others. I've heard it said they update their product line less often, which may mitigate this somewhat. Still, from what I've seen their products, first rev or otherwise are no worse than anyone else's. I don't buy first rev cars, or other expensive, engineering heavy, devices. I usually don't do the same with computers, from any manufacturer. Basically, I just don't see any evidence that Apple is worse (or even as bad) as the average.
How do you figure (Score:2, Insightful)
Dell make 10x the amount of computers that Apple does in a quarter. Dell NEEDS better quality assurance because they make more products. By the same logic, Dell has a lot more potential to find problems and fix them then Apple. If Apple sells 1 million iMac's in a quarter, they may not see glaring quality problems until months later, where as Dell will see glaring problems if 10 million units are shipped.
It may be growing pains for Apple as they have never had the kind of successful product as the iPod. They sell 5+ million iPods in a quarter, more product then they ever used to ship. For Apple, this is new, and finding the right manufacturer to assemble the units while balancing finding the right design that will work for mass quantities is key.
I still think that people over exaggerate Apple's "Quality Assurance" problems, but I do feel that Apple's biggest flaw is style over substance. They want the thinnest and lightest notebooks, but forget that putting a hot processor in a metal box is going to make the box get hot. Plastic wrapping aside, you can't get enough airflow in a thin notebook in order to exhaust the heat without the case getting hot, and I find the Power/Macbooks biggest flaw is the fact the case becomes uncomfortable during heavy processor loads.
Apple needs to learn that there is no point being the smallest, or thinnest or lightest if you can't be the coolest!
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:3, Insightful)
These *are* qa issues. If these things cause an unfavorable consumer experience then they are "bugs". They should be rectified, if they are not then the QA process is not doing its job. It is QA's job to say "this is ready for prime time".
They used the scratchy ipod plastic not because they didn't know it was scratchy, but because Steve liked the look of it.
You have no way of knowing if this is the case.
I'll pitch in my 2 cents about iPods. Almost everyone I know including me, has had an iPod fail. Some of my friends have had 5 iPod failures. I also know people who have had HD crashes in their powerbook via the infamous "Click of death".
I mean, I like Apple hardware but if Apple were to start making airplanes, I sure as hell wouldn't fly in one.
Why these stupid articles continue to be written (Score:4, Insightful)
So, when someone has some bad experiences, they cry louder than, say, someone who has a problem with a Microsoft product. "Oh, Windows broke again? Well, it does suck, that's just the way things are, oh well, no sense in complaining."
Being in support, I know all about the hyperboles users make when complaining about their problems. They go on and on about how this is a critical problem that must be fixed, how there's no quality assurance going on, and that everyone else in the world must be experiencing this same problem. Meanwhile, no one else has reported this problem, there are confirmed tests of this problem not occuring in many standard configurations, the user has a highly specialized configuration, and the affected area is not in fact a critical function.
The guy wants a little extra satisfaction, and wants to be heard. However, he wraps it in the cloak of an editorial, like most bloggers, so called journalists, and other web writers do.
Did the guy get into a crap situation? Probably, and that sucks.
Did the guy get crappy support? Maybe, and that would suck.
But making a sweeping generalization that the products just suck when millions of human beings completely disagree with you is not going to get you any points with Apple or anyone else.
Whatever happened to writing about the facts? If you want to editorialize about any technology company, you have to go find the facts and then lay them out. Finding the facts means getting information on other peoples experiences, surveys, reviews, etc. You then take that information in context and write your own article.
However, if he was going for ad hits, congratulations. Good job there.
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:5, Insightful)
I avoid most first generation products for this reason, or at least wait six months, unless there is a real reason to throw caution to the wind.
Like any product, while it may have been tested well in the labs, the real world is far more complex in the issues that get thrown at stuff. People don't use products as intended, forget procedure or do other stupid things that no one would have thought of. Other issues include manufacturing problems, so even if the product was perfect in the lab something subtle might have screwed up in manufacturing. These problems can get corrected as the issues arise, but it is people buying the product as the start who will get hit by the issues first, since they are using a product that hasn't been fully submitted to the trials of life.
It's not just Apple (Score:3, Insightful)
Mozilla 1.0?
Fedora Core 1?
And now for the obligatory MS bashing:
DOS 1.0?
Windows 1.0?
NT 4, Win98/ME/XP without service packs?
Generation 1 of anything sucks.
What is this writer smoking anyhow? (Score:5, Insightful)
Really? A simple software update fixed the perceived problem, but that makes the MacBooks suck. So sayeth Gundeep Hora, the same person that starts out the article by stating:Nice preface to your FUD and blatantly unbiased attacks against Apple.Gundeep Hora just said that only 1% of the nano's were affected and replaced and that the MacBooks had a software update address a perceived problem. Where are all the examples of recalls? One percent does not justify the concept that first generation nanos were replaced, only those, seemingly, owned by the careless and ignorant needed replacement. So where does Gundeep Hora come off making such a vast generalization? Well, regardless of what he claims in his preface, Gundeep Hora obviously does hate Apple and their recent success. How does this article classify as a "featured story" on CoolTechZone? How does the "editor-in-chief" release such garbage? Maybe he just sucks?
Wow, verifiable facts, I love those. "Mass hysteria" comes from 1% of the users, now that's mass hysteria... I'm sure that Apple does no QA before releasing to the public, I believe Gundeep Hora, he's some kind of expert. I had no idea that they were so lucky. What a hack this moron Gundeep Hora is. Somebody should really reconsider his position.This article is tiring. Gundeep Hora's incomepetence is tiring. Those two weak examples of Apple's supposed incompetence aren't sufficient for these extreme anti-Apple sentiments. What has this douchebag got against Apple? Did Steve Jobs run over his cat or something? Sheesh...
Re:Why First Generation Apple^H^H^H^H^H Products S (Score:5, Insightful)
After the first generation, manufaturers start looking for ways to cut costs.
I saw a great show on the BBC once about washing machines. They took apart an old first gen washing machine and showed a beautiful machined flywheel. The thing was a work of art and I can't imagine how long it must of taken to make or how much it must of cost. The latest version of the same style of washing machine had the equivalent of a coffee can filled with concrete fulfilling the same role. I kid you not.
When I look back on CD players or VCR's that I bought, the first generation models were like tanks. They weighed a ton and held up under constant use for over a decade. I bought them in the mid-80s, and I gave them to the Salvation Army when I moved in 2001, I'm sure they're still running still 20 years on unless someone tossed them out. I only switched to newer models for the new bells and whistles.
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds more like a problem with the HD supplier, than with Apple.
That would be annoying, I'd imagine.
Wouldn't it have been x dollars to spend in the Apple Store? I doubt it would be restricted to the RAM. You could have easily used it on the more reasonably priced items in the store.
Your computer doesn't suddenly become less usable after a new OS comes out. The machine isn't physically affected and all the software that worked on it before would continue to work today. And iMacs could run OS X. We've got some from that era running it. They're not speed demons, but things rarely get faster when you upgrade to a new OS. It's certainly not a Q&A problem.
Actually, it's 36 Fahrenheit. I'm guessing you plugged the Celsius figure into Google or some other conversion program? Remember that Celsius and Fahreheit don't have the same zero point, so converting 20C to F is not the smae as converting a temperature delta of 20C into a temperature delta in F.
Still a pretty bad mistake by Apple. Someone really dropped the ball on that one.
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:3, Insightful)
Kinda like magazines, eh? Don't hold your breath.
-matthew
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:3, Insightful)
I dunno why people get down on Apple for this. Whenever I'm looking for a new car (a new used car anyway) I always avoid the first year of any major body change. When a new processor comes out or some brand-spanking-uber-new-features chipset, I avoid it. When I was in my teens, being an early adopter was cool, but now, I favor reliability over pretty much everything else in all my gadgets.
Re:I concur with this (Score:2, Insightful)
That being said, the complaints most people have with Apple products are typically perception issues: too hot, too noisy, scratches too easily. Everyone has their own tolerance of what they will accept and despite the limitations of current technology, Apple users typically expect Apple to wave a magic wand and make a superquiet, supercool, indestructable device that will last for infinity, despite that no one in the industry can do this. And even though every other company faces the same limitations with heat, noise, and wear and tear, Apple complainers are typically the noisiest about it.
But dissatisfied customers have a tendency to argue from an emotional standpoint than a logical standpoint. Scratches on an iPod? That's a non-issue... buy a case. MacBook too hot/noisy? Get an Etch-A-Sketch. No, seriously, get a cooling pad for the heat, IT'S NOT A LAPTOP DESPITE YOUR INSISTENCE IT MUST BE. Get some headphones and music if electrical or fan noise bothers you that much. Do you bitch about your air conditioner and TV, too? I'm not ranting about anyone specifically but these are the big things people like to complain about nowadays in regards to Apple products. Now iBook G3 video issues, there was a legitimate complaint. Thermal paste? FUD, plain and simple. Been common practice since the powerbooks and never was an issue until people complained about the heat of 2.0 ghz CoreDuo procs. Better too much than too little. People are just wishing that their issue was as easy as too much thermal paste.
Xbox 360 (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:3, Insightful)
I have purchased for my own personal use 8 new Macintoshes since 1993. The only problem I have ever had has been a hard disk failure in one (laptop) unit which Apple replaced under warranty and the airport card in my brand new Intel Mac Mini did not get very good reception and had to be replaced (again under warranty by Apple). All of them have continued to work to this day, except that some units I got rid of because of age (which were working fine the day I got rid of them.)
I have probably bought 5 times this many Mac for work. (I'm a Mac developer.) I bought 4 Macs so far this year (2006) for work and about 8 or 9 last year. I can't recall having a problem with ANY of these systems.
I had a very old powerbook fail when someone spilled a large cup of coffee on it. People have dropped powerbooks and they still quite often work.
Apple is no worse than any other consumer electronics manufacturer with regards to quality. However, if you REALLY don't want to take any chances, then simply buy models right before or right after they are discontinued. I have done that on occasion just to save money - or sometimes just because it worked out that way. I have NEVER had a problem with units that were late in the model. I have had occasional problems with units purchased the week they were first introduced. For example, my problem with the Intel mini - I bought it the day it was announced. Again, this is very unsurprising considering the fact that no QA department can ever be perfect. Come to think of it, the unit that had the hard disk failure was purchased the week it was introduced as well.
So, you can clearly save yourself some headache by waiting (and often I think they will make small improvements to the specifications which tend to be in the first 6 months after introduction, so you might even get a better unit.)