Why First Generation Apple Products Suck 148
mmAPP writes "CoolTechZone.com has an article up that pleads with Apple to focus on its quality assurance before releasing new products. From the article: 'If anything, I think Apple should do a better job at quality assurance than Dell, HP or other OEMs that deal with more units than Apple. The benefit of being a considerably small company (in comparison to other OEMs) is to focus on delivering quality products. There's no denying that Apple is perhaps one of the most innovative companies when it comes to consumer electronics, but ignoring quality as a result is not something it needs to ignore.'"
Show^W Give me the money (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, Apple aren't perfect, but let's face it, who is ? Not that I'm at all religious, but I'm fairly sure there's some mention of "let him without fault throw the first stone" in some old book somewhere. Ok, so everyone has an opinion, hell there's no reason why you should listen to me - bitch if that's what floats your boat; but to do it purely to provide profit via another vector *does* annoy me. One more site to ignore from now on...
I'm sure pretty-much every company does their level best, within some budget, to give their customers the best experience - it's only good business sense. I think Apple actually do *better* at that than most. Shame the nay-sayers disagree...
Not to mention that the logic is
For what it's worth, I gave my sister a nano, she's an air stewardess, and it travels a lot, stuffed in a handbag along with loads of other luggage (tardis-like, in fact - another story...). Yes there are some (small) scratches on it, but no more than any of the other plastic items she carries - significantly less than her credit cards, for example. Yes, it's only one data-point, but the pictures of the unusable screens that were floating about the internet seem maliciously-driven to me - you'd have to take a scourer to the surface to get it that bad...
Simon
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:5, Insightful)
I avoid most first generation products for this reason, or at least wait six months, unless there is a real reason to throw caution to the wind.
Like any product, while it may have been tested well in the labs, the real world is far more complex in the issues that get thrown at stuff. People don't use products as intended, forget procedure or do other stupid things that no one would have thought of. Other issues include manufacturing problems, so even if the product was perfect in the lab something subtle might have screwed up in manufacturing. These problems can get corrected as the issues arise, but it is people buying the product as the start who will get hit by the issues first, since they are using a product that hasn't been fully submitted to the trials of life.
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:3, Insightful)
I dunno why people get down on Apple for this. Whenever I'm looking for a new car (a new used car anyway) I always avoid the first year of any major body change. When a new processor comes out or some brand-spanking-uber-new-features chipset, I avoid it. When I was in my teens, being an early adopter was cool, but now, I favor reliability over pretty much everything else in all my gadgets.
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:2)
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:3, Interesting)
For an analogy, around the Bay Area, people are buying new and old diesel cars and converting them to run on
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:2)
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:2)
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:2)
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:2)
I am a pretty big fan of Consumer Reports (I subscribe) and I have a Mac on the desk, right next to the linux and WinXP boxes that I also use daily.
That being said, Consumer Reports is probably the worst place you could get computer advice from. They are great on evaluating paint, clotheswashers, and cars, but they suck hard on computer knowledge.
As the man said, Let them alone: they
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:2)
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:5, Insightful)
I know my expectations were very high when I bought my MBP. FWIW, my 17 inch MBP has none of the problems reported about the 15 inch model. It is quiet and runs relatively cool. Much cooler in fact than the 17 HP notebook it replaced.
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:2)
FWIW, my 15 inch MBP has none of the problems reported about the 15 inch model. It is quiet and runs relatively cool. Not quite as cool as my 17" G4 powerbook it replaced, but it is easily several magnitudes faster. It is MUCH cooler than my old G3 Lombard was.
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:3, Insightful)
Kinda like magazines, eh? Don't hold your breath.
-matthew
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:1, Troll)
Basically I think this field extends to customers and potential customers of Apple. Steve Jobs has been successful in convincing people he's never even met that Apple products are superior to everything else, that the hefty price tag all Apple products carry is worth it, that Mac OS X is an open-source operating system, and that Apple can do wrong.
Of course some us s
Re:Show^W Give me the money (Score:3, Funny)
Sounds like ... (Score:3, Funny)
Sounds like some other company that makes operating systems. Can't place my finger on their name right now though
Re:Sounds like ... (Score:2)
You know, if everybody does it, they can all get away with it...
lame article (Score:3)
R&D --> Production --> Quality Assurance --> Launch --> Marketing and Sales --> Technical Support + Luck (hoping everything works smoothly and there are no serious issues that the company might have missed).
But here's how a typical product cycle works at Apple:R&D --> Production --> Launch --> Marketing and Sales --> Real World Testing (Quality Assurance) --> Recall, Technical Support, Mass Hysteria --> "Re-Release" --> Success (Notice how Apple doesn't need luck. It has already used an early batch of excited loyalists to do real world testing before launching a refined product).
Give me a break, did this guy's nano just die?
Maybe I'm expecting too much. Whatever it may be, if Apple can't ship better first generation products and is having a troubling time maintaining quality, I don't think Apple should focus on increasing its market share. Apple is not responsible enough to handle a small (I use this term loosely) group of users; do we really expect them to be a mainstream company?
Too bad this guy's not in charge
Apple's QA... (Score:5, Insightful)
Where first-gen Apple products do have issues is not with QA, but with design stubornness. They used the scratchy ipod plastic not because they didn't know it was scratchy, but because Steve liked the look of it. The heat issues are not an issue of "whoops! look at that, processors produce heat!" They know that the machines will run hot, but want to keep the sleek form factor anyway.
All in all, I think Apple products have few overall bugs, but the tight design all around makes those few design flaws stick out like sore thumbs. (damn you, TiBook hinges!)
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:1, Insightful)
And it makes the problems with AppleDontCare stick-out even more. It really sucks to own a 17" PowerBook that doesn't work well. It looks great, but with a bad inverter board it only runs only on slow. Unfortunately AppleDontCare doesn't consider that a serious problem. After fighting with them for over a year for permission to send it back (should have just called American Express at the time to do a chargeback!), t
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:3, Insightful)
These *are* qa issues. If these things cause an unfavorable consumer experience then they are "bugs". They should be rectified, if they are not then the QA process is not doing its job. It is QA's job to say "this is ready for prime time".
They used the scratchy ipod plastic not because they didn't know it was scratchy, but because Steve liked the look of it.
You have no way of knowing if this is the case.
I'll pitch in my 2 cents about iPods. Almost everyone I know incl
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:1)
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:2)
The term is also used more broadly to refer to failures of several other kinds of disk storage systems.
Thank you for playing.
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:2)
And yet they keep buying them. Hardly gives Apple an incentive to make them more reliable does it? iPods are essentially disposable electronics, it's amazing that Apple has managed to create something disposable that lists for such a high price tag. Cell phones are probably the only other comparable item.
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:2)
It's a pretty reasonable bet, though. Steve Jobs is *infamous* for valuing his aesthetic opinions of a product over every other feature and imposing them on others (famous example: wanting to rearrange the circuitry inside the Apple ][ (I think it was) so it looked better).
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:3, Insightful)
I have purchased for my own personal use 8 new Macintoshes since 1993. The only problem I have ever had has been a hard disk failure in one (laptop) unit which Apple replaced under warranty and the airport card in my brand new Intel Mac Mini did not get very good r
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:2)
That being said, I'm clearly a build it guy because I like having the option of going and grabbing a replacement system board or some various part from a local shop. So I guess I am not their market anymore.
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds more like a problem with the HD supplier, than with Apple.
That would be annoying, I'd imagine.
Wouldn't it have been x dollars to spend in the Apple
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:2, Informative)
The DVD settlement was not in the form of a gift certificate for the Apple store or anything like this. It was "special deals" on various Apple merchandise, and no, none of it was reasonably priced. Most of it was extraneous stuff I wouldn't want anyway. The most interesting was the ram, but the price was not a "special deal." I remember looking up the same ram in price watch and it being li
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:2)
LaCie all the way for me. Quality drives, nice enclosures and quiet operation. Perfect for the discerning Mac fan.
That does suck. You have my condolences. I often take issue with class action suits, but if a company is found guilty, then they should be made to pay in cash, not in vouche
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:2)
Re:Apple's QA... (Score:2)
Didn't realise they were using Seagates.
Innovation (Score:2, Insightful)
When I say innovation, I am not suggesting the iPod as a product is innovative. Or the MacBook as a laptop is innovative. I mean more towards specifc features and functions.
The screen used on the Nano, for example. Nobody tried putting it on a MP3 player before. Someone at Apple thought it would hold up. Oops. Guess not.
One approach would be to take the Dell route. Only incorporate technologi
Re:Innovation (Score:1)
Re:Innovation (Score:2, Interesting)
A year or so after Apple successfully(failures seldom make it) uses a new type of screen, or other componet you can see it showing up in other competitiors products.
By the way I know of one Nano user(m brother) who drops his nano, p
Re:Innovation (Score:1)
Is there something wrong with the nano screen? (Score:1)
CoolTechZone (Score:3, Funny)
CTZ Drone: Post an Apple troll?
CTZ Exec: PERFECT! Do it!
My panties went too far up my hynee (Score:3, Insightful)
don't think Apple should focus on increasing its market share. Apple is not responsible enough to handle a small (I use this term loosely) group of users; do we really expect them to be a mainstream company? Apple will always have a great market share because of their marketing and they've been mainstream since Billy boy was stealing Xerox codes.
Is it me or does this author sound like a disgruntled Apple enduser. Perhaps a Dell employee or other corporate shmoo.
Troll (Score:5, Insightful)
His "questions" he'd like to ask sound exactly like "Have you stopped beating your dog?"
Do you really do real world testing on early adopters?
Why is it that nearly all products you unveil are plagued with serious setbacks?
Why is your quality assurance department so incompetent?
Do you ever learn your lesson from previous mistakes?
If so, how do you correct them? If not, why not?
Could you please admit that you will continue to release products with serious flaws in the near future (that will at least give us something to count on)?
Re:Troll (Score:2)
Oh, right, like /. has never had any of them. Get real. Do you actually read the posts at this site?
You know what bugs me about Digg? I'll say it outright: a lot of the users are just assholes. Witness the trolls to the recent article on a game developers suicide. Sure, you get that here, but not as much. So there, a legitimate reason to slam diggers, without making shit up or acting like /.ers never do what you're criticizing diggers for. At least be honest about it because insulting them for doing the sa
Products that suck (Score:2, Funny)
> Why First Generation Apple Products Suck
Tell that to Hoover.
This vacuum sucks! (Score:2)
I concur with this (Score:1, Insightful)
You know what an apple employee told me when i said my hard drive in my powerbook died after 2.5 years?
"Laptop drives die between 2.5 and 3 years after use, it's normal"
Overheating in all their laptops^Wportables (no longer can be called laptops)
chipped paint off the latch button, whine sounds,need to re
Re: (Score:1)
Re:I concur with this (Score:1)
Since when? My Toshiba laptop drives are: 18, 6, 3, and 1 year(s) old. Not a drive failure yet. Plus one more that I got used. Still running after 6 years SINCE I bought it.
And yes, I do still have an 18 year old laptop, and it still runs, and I still use it for one program. Now I only use it once or twice a year, but it is still running and good.
Re:I concur with this (Score:1)
From factory!
Re:I concur with this (Score:2)
They don't. 5 current Macs, all running OSX since 10.1.5, I have NEVER had any problem that was fixable by "repairing permissions"
It's a placebo.
http://daringfireball.net/2006/04/repair_permissio ns [daringfireball.net]
http://daringfireball.net/2006/04/repair_permissio ns_voodoo [daringfireball.net]
Apple does not state *anywhere* in their documentation that repairing permissions is required or even desireable afer updates.
Re:I concur with this (Score:2)
Repairing Permissions is not a placebo for one reason. If anything happens to your
For the record, I have only seen the
Re:I concur with this (Score:2, Insightful)
That being said, the complaints most people have with Apple products are typically perception issues: too hot, too noisy, scratches too easily. Everyone has their own tolerance of what they will accept and despite the limitations of cu
Re:I concur with this (Score:2)
Now, on to the main point: you'd be surprised what Apple employees will say.
As my iBook 700mhz was nearing the end of the warranty (reluctantly extended by Apple after a barrage of logic board compl
Small device (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Small device (Score:2)
Re:Small device (Score:2)
Re:Small device (Score:2)
Dell.. (Score:5, Insightful)
How odd (Score:4, Funny)
Who accepted this article again?
Quick Product Cycle (Score:3, Interesting)
I think it's due to the rapid innovation cycle Apple operates on. If Gateway takes an extra 6 months to ship some beige box, who cares? But Apple, as a niche operator, is much more conscious of staying up on trends and must constantly put out improved and upgraded product. Hell, my 1.83 Ghz MBP isn't even made any more.
The good news is that Apple continually sends out fixes and OS updates, both software and firmware, and its user base is an active and (generally) technically savvy bunch who love sharing what they learn. Being an early adopter isn't always easy, but it's very rewarding.
Re:Quick Product Cycle (Score:4, Informative)
It might be a good idea to look a bit further back in the history of a firm before making any sweeping statements. For every first-gen Apple product that sucked, you can name another that was wildly successful. Apple IIc's were great, Apple III's sucked. There are still Mac IIci's running today, the Mac IIvx was a "roadapple" the day it was released. The Blackbird series of Powerbooks were fabulous, the 5300's crashed and burned (literally). Aluminum PowerBook G4's were/are great machines, the iBook G3 series never were satisfactorily revised, the same form factor with a G4 was a winner from generation one.
One could continue on like this. I upgraded my first-gen iPod to 20gigs and I suspect I'll probably be buried with it (hopefully not soon).
Re:Quick Product Cycle (Score:2)
Re:Quick Product Cycle (Score:2)
More Press Coverage != More Problems (Score:3, Insightful)
So let me get this straight, this guy is arguing that because he's read a lot about first generation Apple products being buggy, they are not doing as good of a job as everyone else? And he has no numbers to back this up? And we're just supposed to assume he's right?
Apple products get more press coverage. They are high profile and do a better job attracting the press than most other manufacturers. They also tend to be more cutting edge than is average and since many users want OS X and there is only one practical source of hardware that runs OS X, people care about their releases. Thus, when there is a problem, everyone hears about it. Does that mean they have more problems? Independent reviews of their hardware reliability put them at or near the top of the heap. This is despite releasing more "cutting edge" features that can't benefit from the mistakes of others. I've heard it said they update their product line less often, which may mitigate this somewhat. Still, from what I've seen their products, first rev or otherwise are no worse than anyone else's. I don't buy first rev cars, or other expensive, engineering heavy, devices. I usually don't do the same with computers, from any manufacturer. Basically, I just don't see any evidence that Apple is worse (or even as bad) as the average.
How do you figure (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How do you figure (Score:2)
Not similar to my experience. (Score:5, Informative)
Worst Apple product ever: The "saucer" power supplies. I've seen at least ten of them fail, some in ways that involved visibile flickering sparks over a period of time. We've had to mix and match parts to cobble together working power supplies. They sucked so much it's unbelievable... Even three years after they came out. Why? Not "rushed to market". "Fundamentally stupid design."
Why First Generation Apple^H^H^H^H^H Products Suck (Score:1)
Re:Why First Generation Apple^H^H^H^H^H Products S (Score:2)
Re:Why First Generation Apple^H^H^H^H^H Products S (Score:5, Insightful)
After the first generation, manufaturers start looking for ways to cut costs.
I saw a great show on the BBC once about washing machines. They took apart an old first gen washing machine and showed a beautiful machined flywheel. The thing was a work of art and I can't imagine how long it must of taken to make or how much it must of cost. The latest version of the same style of washing machine had the equivalent of a coffee can filled with concrete fulfilling the same role. I kid you not.
When I look back on CD players or VCR's that I bought, the first generation models were like tanks. They weighed a ton and held up under constant use for over a decade. I bought them in the mid-80s, and I gave them to the Salvation Army when I moved in 2001, I'm sure they're still running still 20 years on unless someone tossed them out. I only switched to newer models for the new bells and whistles.
His complaint doesn't match my experience (Score:2)
Dumb article. (Score:4, Informative)
All the heat problems people had with Inspirons in '03? The Pentium floating-point bug? It's just that Apple happens to release new products more often than most other companies, so they crop up now and again. I have a first-gen iPod that still works okay (though the battery is pretty much shot after all this time), and one of the first white iBooks that still works grandly.
I would say from my personal experience, Apple's biggest problem is breaking stuff with software updates. In the past, I've had sleep, cd burning, and fink unexpectedly broken with minor revisions; currently (10.4.6) airport is flaky. But that's not what people are talking about when they complain about first-gen products.
Airport Flakiness... (Score:2)
Wow, What Syntax! (Score:2)
I think they ought to think about thinking as a thought process, myself.
At least, that's what I think.
Couldn't be the anti-Apple cultists? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've had four first gen Apple Desktops with zero incidents. I own a first gen iPod that still runs great, yes the battery still works just fine. I have a first gen nano with zero scratches on it, but I also don't carry it around in my pocket with my friggin' keys. I'm on my second first gen Apple laptop with no issues.
Granted personal experience isn't going to define a company, but my experience has never run into any of the problems complained about.
Sometimes you just have to wonder.
Re:Couldn't be the anti-Apple cultists? (Score:2)
It sure seems like you don't spend any time on the support pages. If the end user destroys their battery in 18 months then that's their own fault or it's a defective battery, hardly a QA problem. It's a rare occurrence and Apple deals with such issues in a very timely manner. Somehow I and many others have managed to keep ours working for nearly 60 months now with little difference in performance.
The MacBooks weren't overheating, they ran pretty warm until Apple released the software
Why these stupid articles continue to be written (Score:4, Insightful)
So, when someone has some bad experiences, they cry louder than, say, someone who has a problem with a Microsoft product. "Oh, Windows broke again? Well, it does suck, that's just the way things are, oh well, no sense in complaining."
Being in support, I know all about the hyperboles users make when complaining about their problems. They go on and on about how this is a critical problem that must be fixed, how there's no quality assurance going on, and that everyone else in the world must be experiencing this same problem. Meanwhile, no one else has reported this problem, there are confirmed tests of this problem not occuring in many standard configurations, the user has a highly specialized configuration, and the affected area is not in fact a critical function.
The guy wants a little extra satisfaction, and wants to be heard. However, he wraps it in the cloak of an editorial, like most bloggers, so called journalists, and other web writers do.
Did the guy get into a crap situation? Probably, and that sucks.
Did the guy get crappy support? Maybe, and that would suck.
But making a sweeping generalization that the products just suck when millions of human beings completely disagree with you is not going to get you any points with Apple or anyone else.
Whatever happened to writing about the facts? If you want to editorialize about any technology company, you have to go find the facts and then lay them out. Finding the facts means getting information on other peoples experiences, surveys, reviews, etc. You then take that information in context and write your own article.
However, if he was going for ad hits, congratulations. Good job there.
Re:Why these stupid articles continue to be writte (Score:2)
Uh, a lot of people do think that Apple has a QA problem. I've seen it both on and off Apple fan boards. So if you're going to make a sweeping generalization that he's totally wrong and that no one will agree, do some research. There are plenty of people who agree, and they're not going to give you or anyone else any points f
In the Last Year... (Score:1)
I've purchased a first-generation Mac mini (PPC G4 version) and a MacBook that I ordered on the day they were announced. Not a single problem with either of them. The MB does run a little warm, but not hot enough to be alarming and is otherwise one sweet little unit.
Granted, Apple does have occasional QC problems with new models but so does every other manufacturer--not only manufacturers of computers but any complex product. Would I like every product I buy to be flawless? Of course. Can I reasonably expe
Apple a 'small' company? (Score:3, Informative)
This erroneous concept that Apple is, in some way, a 'smalltime' player, an equal to the likes of, say Atari, Acorn, etc. deviates hugely from the truth.
Re:Apple a 'small' company? (Score:2)
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=t&s=dell&s=AAPL [yahoo.com]
But, yes, they are a smaller company - Dell's revenue is $56B, AAPL's revenue is $17B. Still big though, but not compared to other OEMs.
It's not just Apple (Score:3, Insightful)
Mozilla 1.0?
Fedora Core 1?
And now for the obligatory MS bashing:
DOS 1.0?
Windows 1.0?
NT 4, Win98/ME/XP without service packs?
Generation 1 of anything sucks.
Apple Product Cycle (Score:4, Funny)
First thing that came to my mind. Not that I agree with the article (pretty far from it, actually), but it seemed an obvious link to post here.
What is this writer smoking anyhow? (Score:5, Insightful)
Really? A simple software update fixed the perceived problem, but that makes the MacBooks suck. So sayeth Gundeep Hora, the same person that starts out the article by stating: Nice preface to your FUD and blatantly unbiased attacks against Apple. Gundeep Hora just said that only 1% of the nano's were affected and replaced and that the MacBooks had a software update address a perceived problem. Where are all the examples of recalls? One percent does not justify the concept that first generation nanos were replaced, only those, seemingly, owned by the careless and ignorant needed replacement. So where does Gundeep Hora come off making such a vast generalization? Well, regardless of what he claims in his preface, Gundeep Hora obviously does hate Apple and their recent success. How does this article classify as a "featured story" on CoolTechZone? How does the "editor-in-chief" release such garbage? Maybe he just sucks?
Wow, verifiable facts, I love those. "Mass hysteria" comes from 1% of the users, now that's mass hysteria... I'm sure that Apple does no QA before releasing to the public, I believe Gundeep Hora, he's some kind of expert. I had no idea that they were so lucky. What a hack this moron Gundeep Hora is. Somebody should really reconsider his position. This article is tiring. Gundeep Hora's incomepetence is tiring. Those two weak examples of Apple's supposed incompetence aren't sufficient for these extreme anti-Apple sentiments. What has this douchebag got against Apple? Did Steve Jobs run over his cat or something? Sheesh...
Apples in our lab... (Score:2, Interesting)
what do you consider first generation these days? (Score:2)
that being said i picked up a used 1st version dual USB iBook that i use daily.
i have a G4 tower that was the first version with AGP, but what does that mean? any revision would have an upgraded motherboard, and that was at least the 3rd tower in that same basic case.
i have an iPod shuffle i got when they first came out (t
If you buy a 1st-Gen.-Lemon: Buy it from Apple! (Score:2, Interesting)
I've bought numerous Macs since 1994 (about 50 or so, small graphic-design firm). During this time we've had four real "1st-Generation-Lemons" (one PM 6100/60, two G4/400, and one iBook/500).
In each of the four cases Apple was extremely helpful and fair. Yes, each of those machines did cost me time & nerves (and my coworkers learned many colourful new words), but the way Apple handeled these issues are one of the
Xbox 360 (Score:2, Insightful)
no denying? (Score:2)
I deny this. They certainly put the iPod suite together well, but I hardly call an MP3 player innovative. They have relied very heavily on their business partners for the real innovative thinking. (reasonable DRM (dolby), connection to car stereos (kenwood, JVC, etc), storage (hitachi), etc. Besides the iPod, what has apple even put out for "non-pc" consumer electronics. The newton? The H
Re:no denying? (Score:2)
BS (Score:2)
Mac fans whine more. (Score:2)
first gen product buyers are the true beta testers (Score:2)
Re:Does anyone here... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Does anyone here... (Score:2)
Re:Does anyone here... (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Does anyone here... (Score:1)
Re:Does anyone here... (Score:2)
Sure you can claim "But Dell sells far more computers", and that is true. However Dells product line is how many laptops? 20? 30? I have no clue, but a ton. Apple has essentially
I have an iMac Core Duo (Score:2)
Re:Does anyone here... (Score:2)