Chicken and Egg Problem Solved 449
Java Pimp writes "It seems scientists and philosophers now agree which came first. The Egg. From the CNN article: 'Put simply, the reason is down to the fact that genetic material does not change during an animal's life. Therefore the first bird that evolved into what we would call a chicken, probably in prehistoric times, must have first existed as an embryo inside an egg. Professor John Brookfield, a specialist in evolutionary genetics at the University of Nottingham, told the UK Press Association the pecking order was clear.' So, does this mean we can now show P=NP?"
I thought this was obvious to everybody (Score:4, Insightful)
Flawed assumption (Score:3, Insightful)
I still believe that the first chicken was actually born of the very last chicken egg in existence, transported back in time by his noodly appendage [venganza.org].
So, what does a mobius chicken taste like?
Re:Alright, now answer me this: (Score:3, Insightful)
I thought that this was Science Vs. Religion (Score:5, Insightful)
Crap came first (Score:4, Insightful)
The egg clearly came first since chickens evolved from species already laying eggs.
If you ask if a specific chicken came before a specific chicken-egg, then probably yes, depending on the time of the laying/conception/[your preferred existance-deciding moment].
If you ask if a specific chicken came before it's own egg, then obvously, no, which is well-established by the laws of causality.
But, that those aside, in the more transcendal (and usual) interpretation the question doesn't make sense since development of a species is continuous and the whole concept of species is trying to break that continuous development into discrete steps. That process is bound to have boundary problems and the system of species should not be applied in those conditions.
Re:I thought this was obvious to everybody (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:obvious (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I thought this was obvious to everybody (Score:3, Insightful)
The rate of evolution being as slow as it is, it's about 0% likely that a mammal (live birth) could give birth to a bird (egg laying) like that.
Maybe in Spore, though...
Re:Obligatory Chicken & Egg Joke #928 (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I thought this was obvious to everybody (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:I thought this was obvious to everybody (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I thought that this was Science Vs. Religion (Score:3, Insightful)
uhm.... no...
'Put simply, the reason [that the egg must have come first] is down to the fact that genetic material does not change during an animal's life.
Their argument is within the framework of an evolutionary worldview.
Re:I thought this was obvious to everybody (Score:3, Insightful)
It's kinda like asking when dough becomes bread. There's definately a difference in the starting and ending state, but any two obervations made within a few seconds of each other would lead one to conclude that you're looking at the same thing both times.
Re:So, does this mean we can now show P=NP? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Alright, now answer me this: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Old News - Older even than you (Score:5, Insightful)
Cecil Adams' response was only correct for one interpretation of the question. That interpretation is a question of whether eggs of any sort existed before chickens of any sort. His interpretation is only useful if you intend to be a smart-ass by answering the letter of the question rather than the common interpretation. The more common interpretation of this question is whether chicken eggs existed before chickens themselves. That is the question that TFA seeks to answer.
BTW, I also answered this question years ago (though not before '84). All it got me was dumb stares from the people I told it to. Now that my answer has been "officially confirmed" I expect nothing but head scratching and comments like, "I don't remember you saying anything like that at all."
The answer is actaully quite obvious from an evolutionary perspective. If evolution happens between generations, then what came before the first chicken egg had to be a non-chicken. Thus the egg came first.
TW
But the answer is still right (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I thought this was obvious to everybody (Score:3, Insightful)
Nah, you've got it backwards...
The answer lies in the distinction between "Chicken" and "Not Chicken"
Well Duh ! (Score:2, Insightful)
But, if you assume we are talking about chicken eggs and chickens, then strictly speaking the chicken came first, ince the egg that was laid by the pre-chicken was not, in-fact, a chicken egg, but a pre-chicken egg.
If we allow for any species of egg then we have to allow for any species as well and we are left with the question:
Which came first the egg laying creatures or the eggs?
(And that assumes the creatures would have to lay the eggs.)
Re:I answered this years ago as well: (Score:3, Insightful)