IL School District to Monitor Student Blogs 438
tinkertim writes "According to a Yahoo article, a school district in Libertyville, IL will be holding students accountable for illegal actions discussed in their MySpace blogs even if such actions in no way involved the school or another student. A spokesperson for the school district was quoted as saying: 'The concept that searching a blog site is an invasion of privacy is almost an oxymoron,' he said. 'It is called the World Wide Web.' Supposedly, no direct monitoring or snooping will be done unless the school receives a report from a concerned parent, community member or other student."
Curioser and curioser, and more curioserererer (Score:5, Insightful)
The ambiguity of the criteria doesn't help either: 'Illegal' is one thing, but 'inappropriate' is another one they use (though not mentioned in the summary) and more or less gives them a license to discipline (oh, but only after some undisclosable anonymous source expresses 'concern', of course). I'm willing to bet that illegal means mostly slander against school employees, and inappropriate is 'anything else we don't like and can use as dirt against a kid we want to get rid of'.
Given that most of the time, it's parental apathy being compensated for by the authorities, it's very telling that in this case parents are demanding to be given back their control.Re:Curioser and curioser, and more curioserererer (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Curioser and curioser, and more curioserererer (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Curioser and curioser, and more curioserererer (Score:3, Interesting)
I know how this feels first hand. In the 6th grade my parents sent me and my two younger sisters to a private school. The Dean was pretty strict, but we were getting a good education, a lot of individual teacher attention and really exceeding in our studies. The second year the Dean decided that we (the students, not just me and my siblings) were rebels that needed to be
The real oxymoron (Score:5, Insightful)
Makes perfect sence to me (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Makes perfect sence to me (Score:2)
Re:Makes perfect sence to me (Score:2)
Re:Makes perfect sence to me (Score:2)
In case you hadn't noticed, we get bred, whether we're in season or not, by our all omnipotent government everytime we walk out the door into the real world. The only real difference between us and a prostitute is that the prostitute usually gets paid for it, whereas we all pay for the 'priviledge' of getting bred.
Minor semantics difference, usually lost in the rest of the crowd noise.
--
Cheers, Gene
Re:Makes perfect sence to me (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Makes perfect sence to me (Score:2)
Re:Makes perfect sence to me (Score:2)
When you have control within you own establishment then fair enough, but outside of that a person is just that a person.
Now it is understandable in discriminating against police officers who commit crime, but a student is different.
You have little choice about school and schooling is very important. But the influence of the school should never reach beyond it's walls.
Beyond the walls of the School it is the job of the parents to care for their children an
Why can't they focus on education instead... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why can't they focus on education instead... (Score:2)
Re:Why can't they focus on education instead... (Score:2)
And not only that, but imagine if a kid makes a big deal on MySpace about being, oh I don't know, Jewish, and then they also complain about the school and talk about dope. If the school is admitting that it's using info on MySpace to discipline kids, won't they open themselves to possible di
By announcing they will be monitoring... (Score:3, Interesting)
Because school districts aren't equipped or funded to act as general law enforcement agencies, and have more than enough demands on their resources doing what they are supposed to do, without their staff trying to live out their "Internet cop" fantasies.
Re: (Score:2)
'splain this to me better (Score:4, Interesting)
what exactly is the school going to do, that they are going to hold me accountable for what I write in my blog..
arrest me? press charges as an educatorial influence?
A wild guess... (Score:5, Insightful)
Kick you off the teams (and other extra activities that look good on college admission forms). Kick you out of AP classes. Suspend or expell you. Put black marks in your record (and otherwise interfere with earning decent grades) that will blight your carreer and reduce your earning and marriage prospects for the rest of your life.
Stop ahead. Pay troll. (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe a school administrator had mod points?
Re:'splain this to me better (Score:2, Funny)
1. Give the diamond ring to me untill after class.
2. 5-Day Suspention.
3. Teacher-Parent Conference.
Please give this note to your parents.
IL SlashSchool
Mike Pricipal, Principal
Re:'splain this to me better (Score:3)
And about ten minutes after this goes into effect (Score:4, Interesting)
Should be no end of fun for the kids, and I rather suspect that the first several lawyers' fees will end up paid by the district too.
Works the other way too (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And about ten minutes after this goes into effe (Score:3, Insightful)
Indeed... If I was in the school district, I would start a blog, just so I could tell the story of how I used my army of robots to nuke New Tokyo, or something. Then, I would post that I shot Kennedy using my time machine. Then, I would post that I had a glass of wine. I'd love to
Why is it the school's responsiblity? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a perversion of what schools should actually be focusing on. Why not focus on teaching students how to perform basic life skills, like manage credit, get a bank account, balance a checkbook, and spot shady deals when trying to buy a car? At least that would fall under "education", not "parenting" (although parents should be teaching their children all that as well).
Re:Why is it the school's responsiblity? (Score:2)
Re:Why is it the school's responsiblity? (Score:5, Insightful)
Public schools ALWAYS WERE about control. (Score:2)
Public schools ALWAYS WERE about control - specifically, about indoctrinating children with a government/elite - prescribed culture.
Which amounts to teaching the next generation to be good serfs.
Look at the original debates on setting up and funding public schools. Actually educating the kids was hardly ever mentioned. The big push was to indoctrinate them with a common culture.
(Of course nowdays it's to indoctrinate them with
If they have all this free time (Score:2)
How come the School District is not spending their time working to improving grades?
With an administration that is concerned about what students are saying about them, it is like the staff themselves never left high school!
Impersonation (Score:4, Interesting)
I wouldn't mind if.. (Score:2)
I know that if this kind of thing went on at a school I attended, for some reason all the administrators BSDM sites would be "leaked" to the rest of the school.
2 ways of looking at this... (Score:2)
Two: How is it that we've reached a point where the schools are raising our kids for us? What happens outside of school is none of their business unless it indicates a threat to the other students. Violent crime, sure.
But more likely, this is going to be used to ferret out the pot smokers a
Re:2 ways of looking at this... (Score:2)
Anyway, it seems like government control over education has gone way too far. We have the Federal government regulating, the state governments regulating, the local school boards regulating, and so it's no wonder that teachers teach memorization of topics... they're just following the regulatio
And Charter Schools Dot the Earth (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:And Charter Schools Dot the Earth (Score:2)
There is just one problem with your theory. Charter schools are public schools (just without much of the bureaucracy). The parent school district of the charter schools can cut them loose if they don't meet their "standards." In other words, if charter schools become too numerous, the leaders over the regular schools would fight tooth and nail for them to stop gaining too much power.
Our school system needs to change.
Just doing their job (Score:5, Insightful)
Clearly this school is just preparing its students for the America of tomorrow.
Now wait a minute. (Score:4, Insightful)
Since when does a school have the time or resources to monitor this type of thing? Sure, sure, if they get notified and see it on the web page, report it to be the police. But last time I checked every person in this country is allowed "Due Process" before being sentenced for any type of crime, and last time I checked it is NOT the schools that are allowed to levy a sentence prior to a court of law.
Overstepping their bounds? WAY overstepping their bounds my friends.
Re:Now wait a minute. (Score:3, Insightful)
How is a student is supposed to get a fair shot at an appeal when those in charge of that invariably walk into the situation with the attitude that the school system is always right?
Privacy? (Score:2)
So what, they cant do anything (Score:2)
Stupidity (Score:2)
Not only do you discuss it in a public medium, you leave records that you did. I mean, that's just stupid.
Cheap imitation stupidity (Score:2)
All sorts of possibilities there for creative writing, don't you think?
Concerns about Privacy (Score:2)
How long until it is used against the school... (Score:2)
Just one budding Photoshop genius at the school, and the whole administration could end up as registered sex offenders.
If it's good enough to 'prosecute' a student into a suspension/expulsion, shouldn't the DA consider it good enough to prosecute the administrators into jail?
Circling Sharks (Score:3, Insightful)
Why the school? Where's the parents? (Score:2)
So, who decides what "inappropriate" behavior is?
Most teachers think cursing is "inappropriate", but I certainly wouldn't want my kids disciplined BY THE SCHOOL for cursing. It's ridiculous to even think about.
And, if the kids post really inappropriate stuff (like sexual activities or beatings), then the school should work through the parents and, if appropriate, the police.
I've got 2 teens
Since I hate my classmates... (Score:2, Insightful)
Privacy? No, due process (Score:2)
So, do the kids get to have a trial where the facts are aired publicly by both parties before they are punished? This is about lack of due process, not about a lack of privacy.
Now, I don't necessarily think that due process is needed for the school to govern behavior of students on school grounds. But I definitely think it's needed before the school can punish students for behavior that's so undisruptive to the school that the only way they can find out about it is reading a blog.
Continuation of a Trend (Score:2, Interesting)
While this action quite reasonably offends our sense of liberty and free speech, it is certainly not unprecedented. The fact that students are forced to sign this agreement in order to participate in extracurricular activities is what makes this likely to stand up to scrutiny unless a serious public outcry arises. A choice is given, and as long as students are willing to give up the privilege of participating in extracurriculars (which are not guaranteed/forced on them, unlike education), they are free n
inappropriate = anything we don't like (Score:2)
In essence this government agency will apply whatever standard one of their members deems fit. If not their members then people who have influence over them. I will be especially unsurprised if they take action against negative comments about employees of the school system.
Expect the term "hate speech" to be bandied about along with the other PC favorite "intolerance".
If anything we can only hope that the first court to get into th
Well, duh. (Score:2)
Does anyone think my name is really Khaed? It's not.
Do they think the kids are so stupid that they won't post with screen names, like I have here? I have two or three different names I like that I use in various places. I could be talking to some
I wonder (Score:2)
Re:I wonder (Score:3, Insightful)
What a child does outside of class that impacts the campus should rightfully be a concern of the district, even if its not under their direct "authority."
If a kid on myspace -- aka the backwater of the web where HTML from 1995 is still popular -- is talking about plans to take out a group of students, or running drugs onto
Re:I wonder (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I wonder (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I wonder (Score:3, Insightful)
The district has an obligation to inform the police. Anything less than this is complicity, and anything more is taking the law into their own hands.
Underfunded? (Score:2)
And again (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:And again (Score:3, Insightful)
Did you hear that? That was the sound of the point going over your head. It's not a privacy issue. The problem is that the school is punishing kids for things that they say WHEN THEY'RE NOT ON SCHOOL GROUNDS!!! As soon as that kid steps off of their property, it's none of their damned business what the kids say. And I don't give a crap whether it's just talking about extra-curricular activities or not. They are using this to coerce kids into keeping their mouths shut. Kids are learning abou
Must be an Illinois thing (Score:2)
So is there some prodding from the state department of education for school districts to be doing this, or is Illinois just more of a nanny state than most?
School FAILS students for racist comments (in .SE) (Score:2)
On a recent (this week or last) podcast (in English), Radio Sweden reporters told the story
of a Swedish school that failed students who made racist statements in tnhe classroom.
Apparently, the only course grade affected was in Sociology (or similar), or perhaps the
Swedish school course that focusses on other cultures.
I consider this a practical measure to curb racism (consistent with Anti-Race Hatred laws
in other coun
Oxymoron? More like "teacher's a moron" (Score:4, Insightful)
There's no oxymoron, but it's clear the spokesperson is a moron.
Re:Oxymoron? More like "teacher's a moron" (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Oxymoron? More like "teacher's a moron" (Score:3, Informative)
You are making the same mistake the teacher did - only looking at one aspect of privacy (secrecy). It is also an invasion of privacy to interfere with others without having any particular information about them. Even Webster's shallow and incomplete definition [m-w.com] encompasses this (see 1(b), and to some extent 1(a)). You seem to be limiting your concept of privacy to the paragraph 3 of the definition, so placed because it is
"don't do that! I don't like that!" (Score:2)
No one should have any say in what I do as long as I don't vioate your rights. And sorry, doing something you don't approve of does not violate your rights. You do not have a right to tell me what I can and cannot do.
That's all this is... you can't do that because I don't like it when you do that. Who are the children in this case? The students, or the school board?
Makes me sick.
What a waste (Score:3, Insightful)
Easy Solution (Score:3, Interesting)
Sign up for a myspace account if you don't have one. Exchange them among students. Complain about everyone elses account. Everyone ask every day if they have investigated all complaints. I think the biggest offense here from a liability standpoint would likely be the targeting of some students over others.
I'd also suggest fun with content. It'd be fun to post extensive content on which teachers were less than competent. Nothing libelous or overly inflamatory but it'd be nice to have a post for everytime a teacher was late to class or every time an administrator picked their nose. Just stick to the facts kids. Rat out every shortcoming of the institution and force them to read it all day in and day out. I ran pretty low on the Radar in highschool but I can still think of pleny of shortcommings that they would probably not like to hear about themselves.
I do believe that Libertyville is a farily large school so it should quickly turn into a giant morass.
Have fun people.
Old News (Score:3, Insightful)
They've been doing this at my old school district for well over a year now. (South-central PA)
My sister has had friends busted for having Xanga's, Myspace's, etc which detailed either insults directed at teachers, various parties involving drinking, or direct threats to other students (the excuse they use for this in the first place). Some have even had explusion hearings based upon what was stated on their Xanga's (although in one case... it was just the straw that broke the camel's back).
While there are ways to protect your privacy in these communities, many people don't do it for the simple fact that they INTEDED to be found by their friends. The flaw in the social system is that nobody assumes that their parents would ever check these systems.
The long and short of it is: If you'd get in trouble (either parentally, scholastically, or legally) for saying it to someone's face, either use a proper layer of privacy, or DON'T FREAKING WRITE IT!
Hopefully the state will micromanage my life (Score:3, Interesting)
But remember (Score:2, Insightful)
If you reference those people in your blog, we can find you
You go to school, you do extra-curricular activities
If you reference those activities in your blog, we can find you
You go to school, you have classes
If you mention those classes, we can find you
You go to school, you dislike a teacher
If you mention that teacher, we can find you
Basically, We can find you.
Re:But remember (Score:4, Insightful)
And if I ran one myself, it'd be private.
Re:But remember (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:But remember (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, of course they did. Because when you're a kid (under 18) and post naked pictures of yourself online, that "self expression" is called child porn, and predators feed off of that stuff.
That's not to say that it is the school's job (IMO, it's not) to be monitoring the activities of students after hours, but if that is their intention, then kids posting naked pictures of themselves should certainly fall under unacceptable behavior.
That said, were I a parent and my kids were expelled for something they did after hours, after making sure my kids were punished so that they don't begin to think I am on their side for what they did, I would sue the school over a denial of free, public education. I don't pay tax money to have the schools pick and choose who can go to school and who can't based on after school activities. And certainly not because the teachers don't like what they see on MySpace. If you have a personal problem with it, bring it to me. Don't deny my kid an education and hurt their future college prospects just because the idiots decided to talk or brag about stuff (that was probably much more mild in real life, or didn't even happen) on MySpace.
Re:public vs private (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:But remember (Score:2)
Re:But remember (Score:5, Insightful)
Welcome to America. Land of the free.
Re:But remember (Score:5, Insightful)
*Term and Conditions Apply
Re:But remember (Score:3, Insightful)
I remember... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm glad I'm out of that community and it reinforces my weariness of any suburb, anywhere. I feel sorry for the student
Re:But remember (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's say there was some kid I really didn't like, named Joe Smith. So first, I go onto GMail, and make an account for Joe.Smith@gmail.com. Then, I go register to MySpace with that email address. While I'm standing around at school, with my cellphone or other small camera, I grab a few photos of Joe. I post those up to "his" MySpace page.
I develop this page for a few weeks, because I have nothing better to do, and this lends it more credibility. Nobody notices, because of course I haven't actually told anyone who knows the real Joe Smith about it. I start posting some racy stuff. Nothing that would get the Feds / Police / DEA involved, but some stuff that the school admin people wouldn't like. Maybe how I think they're real assholes, and how I wish they would do biologically impossible and reproductively unproductive things with themselves. Or maybe I mention some low-level criminal activity: shoplifting, marijuana, drinking, etc. Allude to underage sex -- there's nothing to get puritanical hearts racing like the thoughts of 17-year-olds getting it on. (Or, for even more effective hell-raising, dig up some good dirt on Joe that's actually true -- everybody has some skeletons in the closet, even at 17 -- and post that to the web page. That makes it harder for him to deny later and increases the potential damage inflicted on his friends.)
Then, after I've established this for a little while, I drop a dime on "Joe's" online presence, or maybe I just mention it to somebody else's parent (one of those everything-is-my-business, moralistic asshole types). They check out the webpage, and do the predictable kneejerk thing and immediately go to the school principal/headmaster asking for Joe Smith's head on a plate. The administrator looks up the MySpace page in question, finds incriminating text, finds GMail account in Joe's name that's connected
End result: Joe gets suspended, suspension goes on his permanent record, messes up his chance to go to Princeton, he ends up going to community college and hanging himself while coming off of some bad LSD in his parents basement five years later. Or maybe just going to some other college. Whatever. The point is I was able to fuck with his life without really having to do anything -- I just created some stuff online, revealing nothing about myself besides an IP address (which the school probably wouldn't be able to trace back to me, especially if I was smart enough to use a proxy), and fucked up someone else's life hardcore.
That's the problem with policies like this: they don't take into account the fact that people will try to manipulate them to harm others, either for their own gain or just for the sheer hell of hurting other people. They're designed shortsightedly, and that's why they're almost always a very, very bad idea.
Re:But remember (Score:5, Insightful)
I've seen a few stories like this over the last week. It looks like schools are trying to step up to fill a lack of adequate parenting when it comes to student's use of the internet. I see the void they are concerned about, but I don't think its the school's place to step up.
However, since kids only have 2 sources of authority to answer too (parental and school), umm
US Citizens 18 and over should have the run of the internet with no restrictions on what thoughts or content you can publish or contribute. I agree with that because censorship in any form on what is supposed to be a world accessable free medium is bad.
However a 16 year old posting that he beat the crap out of someone and stole his car, well
Point is , if parents were doing their job a bit better
So don't look at this as big brother, look at this as (possibly) a lack of parenting and the school being a bit over eager to correct it.
I predict this is going to grow to be a national issue with hundreds more stories just like this popping up over the next 12 months.
Re:A hell of a lot of speech is... (Score:3)
If the cops charge him with a crime, or say he's potentially dangerous or whatever, then sure, the school can then consider removing him from the student population. But the school does not have the right to judge and sentence this kid based purely on some downloaded text.
Re:A hell of a lot of speech is... (Score:3, Insightful)
But if he is writing fiction, or writing about legal but objectionable activities he partakes in on his own time, that is his, and his parents business, keep the schools out of it.
>>
I agree with you, minus one detail. Most parents aren't making their kid's on-line activities their business. Someone who actively fantasizes about doing things of that nature does have some problems, and since in this case (it being a child) someone *should* make it their business.
My point was parental apathy is c
Barrier to entry (Score:3, Insightful)
By making something that's written on the internet a violation, it means that someone can sit at home with nothing but a computer, and possibly a camera to take photos with, and produce that "evidence."
It lowers the barrier to entry on producing incriminating evidence to a very low l
Re:Don't forget... (Score:2)
Re:Don't forget... (Score:2)
Re:Don't forget... (Score:5, Insightful)
People shouldn't have to conceal their personal information online when the searcher has no right to use it . It'd be bad enough if a school punished students for ranting about school online, but the fact that they are punishing students for anything non-school related is downright draconian and offensive. They have no right to do that.
Re:Don't forget... (Score:2, Insightful)
but the fact that they are punishing students for anything illegal or offensive after such actions have been brought to the attention of the school is downright draconian and offensive
Has a different ring, don't you think?
So yes, you video-taping yourself lighting cats on fire and cutting yourself might get you in trouble now with your school. Boo frekin hoo...
Re:Don't forget... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Don't forget... (Score:3, Insightful)
Society does. That's how the world works. The school only gets involved if there is a complaint (and I would imagine a number of complaints or a significant complaint). Hence, *society* external to the school decides on what is offensive. The school mediates. Again, I'm assuming there are rational people in charge at the school and care not about "Jimmy said the F-word on myspace!", but more serious issues like physical threats or mental abuse.
What is really happening
Re:Don't forget... (Score:2)
I'm not for this monitoring. When i was in highschool (late '80s), we had to sign a pledge not do drink alcohol or do drugs to participate in football, baseball or any other sports. Lesser activities like FFA and choir didn't have this requirment. It ment that I didn't play sports because I wasn't going to pledge anything in order to participate in a
Re:Don't forget... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Don't forget... (Score:5, Insightful)
If the student posts that he intends to kill his (teacher|principal|schoolmate), whether on the Net or anywhere else, he has made a death threat. Not only may he be discipined by the school, but he is also subject to arrest and prosecution.
On the other hand, what if he posts a profanity-laden rant about how unfair the grading system is? Not polite, perhaps, but certainly not illegal-and if done off of school hours, EVEN if he posts it on a public website (or shouts it in a public square), he should not be subject to school discipline. Yet, the school could easily state that what he said was "inappropriate", even though it was perfectly legal.
On the school district's part, it is breathtakingly arrogant-especially for a superintendent to claim that she is not violating the students' rights by "searching" their blogs. Of course she's not, it's up there for anyone in the world to read. However, the students' rights ARE being violated if she is suppressing otherwise legal speech in those blogs. Hell of a way to duck the issue.
I fully agree that should you be stupid enough to post information about doing something -illegal- in a public place, you deserve what you get. The big concern here is the ever-slippery "inappropriate". Teenagers naturally experiment and push the boundaries. This is a natural and healthy part of adolescence, and so long as the kid is not -crossing- those boundaries (i.e. breaking the law), it is not the school's place to intervene after the kid goes home.
Re:Don't forget... (Score:2)
Re:Don't forget... (Score:2, Informative)
I'd probably even do it on the school network if I could so they could not track the IP address (if MySpace would even let them have it). Internet anonymity for teh win!!111
from the district itself: (Score:2, Interesting)
Holding People Accountable?? (Score:2)
Imagine students posting something like
You get the idea. let's see the powers that be deal with that, especially if the kids put up fake profiles. with fake pictures ripped off from someplace else.
Re:Back underground (Score:5, Interesting)
No, I think they will just start posting under each others' names.
It is now apparent what the step before "Profit!!" is: snitch.
a great way to subvert the system (Score:3, Insightful)