Portables as Servers? 99
vincecate asks: "Do portables make reliable Linux servers? The power on the island where I live is very unreliable. With the screen off the battery should last through a long power outage. I could even put on a UPS and have it last a day. My servers have little load (DNS and some web). Prices on portables are getting reasonable. Can anyone report on using portables as servers?"
Apache (Score:2)
Re:Apache (Score:2)
Re:Apache (Score:2)
Offshore hosting? (Score:4, Insightful)
Sadly I have no experiance with portables though.
Re:Offshore hosting? (Score:1)
Re:Offshore hosting? (Score:2)
Unless you have very exotic wishes, it's excellent for most servers. They won't take much load tho.
Re:Offshore hosting? (Score:2)
Re:Offshore hosting? (Score:2)
Other hosts [xensource.com] like these [google.com] provide Xen VPS hosting which gives full root access and more hardware resources. They can reboot their virtual server and install their own kernels and kernel modules. With any decent provider, users get provisioned their own partitions on top of an LVM volume group.
Pretty much anything claming to be a VPS under the $14.95-$19.95 price point wi
Re:Offshore hosting? (Score:2)
laptop = desktop = server (Score:5, Informative)
I/O on a laptop likely to suck, due to compromises in HD size/speed/DTR
limited memory upgradeability...but do you need 16GB in a laptop doing 'light duty' as a server?
I've run L.A.M.P stuff and Samba on an old K6-400 laptop, and it ran fine.
Re:laptop = desktop = server (Score:2)
I/O on a laptop likely to suck, due to compromises in HD size/speed/DTR
Yes.
Some people will tell you that fragmentation hardly matters on modern hard disks. I can tell you from experience that it makes a huge difference on laptop hard disks. I've also seen Windows laptops come formatted with small block sizes, which makes the problem worse. So, right off the bat I'd say use a file system that is more resistant to fragmentation than NTFS. If you use NTFS, make sure your block size is large enough (install
Laptop as Servers (Score:1)
Re:Laptop as Servers??? (Score:2)
Re:Laptop as Servers??? (Score:3)
No, you're coming off as a complete dick. Do you honestly think that Vincecate was wondering if they could replace his quad Opteron server and couple TB RAID with a 1500 dollar laptop and an external USB hard drive??? He's obviously not doing 2000 transactions a second if his power goes out constantly. Remember what happens when the power goes out? Your Internet connection goes down. No connection to the outside world (or outside your "server" room for that matter) to pr
Re:Laptop as Servers??? (Score:2)
> No, you're coming off as a complete dick.
We need a +1, "Situation appropriate smack-down."
Another article (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, if you can't use them for their intended role (Score:2, Informative)
Wow! (Score:1)
I really want the reverse: VGA - IN for laptops (Score:2)
Furthermore, I want to be able to do this on the fly. I want to lay two laptops on the desk and have one span both displays. Most laptops these days support spanning into an external monitor, but most don't accept input
Re:I really want the reverse: VGA - IN for laptops (Score:2)
--Talk to Apple, I'm sure they'd consider adding it as $feature to distinguish themselves in teh future.
Re:I really want the reverse: VGA - IN for laptops (Score:2)
I have to ask slashdot (Score:2, Funny)
Mods are from another planet (Score:1, Offtopic)
Sheesh
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I have to ask slashdot (Score:2)
I was thinking ``skateboards as mass transit"
Well, substitute bicycles and you've got Beijing.
My setup (Score:2)
I used to run an SSH/SOCKS proxy/home monitoring server on an old Thinkpad laptop. Worked really well.
I changed over to a Linksys router running the latest White Russian firmware, though, for the SSH/SOCKS part.
portable server advice (Score:4, Interesting)
Boot is okay from either HD or CD, but it should have enough ram to not poll the HD. 512m is usually a good bet, 1g will definitely be enough for pretty much anything (aside from running a mysql server with a large db or something), if you calculate everything you may find that 256 is enough... Then make it turn off HD after 1 minute of operations. Disconnecting either the CD or the HD might be a good idea too. If you boot from a CompactFlash or similar card, you don't need HD/CD at all - even less electricity consumption.
Fewer moving parts translates directly into longer battery life and better performance (standard HD speed is still 5400 RPM on laptops). It'll probably live longer, to boot (pun intended)
Heat dissipation is another issue you may want to look into (if the CPU is not one of those new low-power ones.. if you have a 15W core duo, you're golden). Since it'll be a server, you can easily pop off the keyboard and bare the cooling pipes (better cooling performance).
HTH
Re:portable server advice (Score:2)
Re:portable server advice (Score:2)
RAID for USB devices is overkill, IMHO - you can buy a pretty cheap stick in the order of 1-2 GB (under $50). Also, depending on which type of RAID you set up, all nodes may get written to every time (striping RAID) which makes the MTFB fall incredibly fast (and you want to keep MTBF as high as possible, especially for a serv
Compact Flash on laptop servers (Score:2)
Re:portable server advice (Score:2)
Relizble and convenient! (Score:2)
Ouch.
Re:Relizble and convenient! (Score:2)
Re:Relizble and convenient! (Score:1)
As long as you have little load (Score:1)
The main problem... (Score:1)
See if you can boot off a USB flash drive, and increase RAM enough that you don't need swap - then you can remove the HDD and run without moving parts (unless it's a notebook with an internal fan, which I would not recommend).
Re:The main problem... (Score:2)
Re:The main problem... (Score:2)
(Then again, I prefer Seagate... dunno if they've got a server-oriented Momentus...)
It really depends... (Score:1)
The weak point of your idea are the disk system... you could of course try with an external disk, PCMCIA/CardBUS SCSI or FireWire 800 adapters are available, but then you've got problems with power to the disk system.
I think the real question is how much diskspace is required and how intensive is the usage (of the disk), if you don't have h
Durability is an issue (Score:2)
The real question this spurs is why don't servers have internal UPS's like laptops do and why aren't there ones designed for low power and long batery life. A laptop motherboard with several big UPS style batteries, a mirrored set of drives and some reasonable low power cooling fans could probalby live for up to a day on battery and still be quite
Re:Durability is an issue (Score:2)
Data center applications, where you'll find the majority of servers at, are already stuck with having big UPSes for all their equipment (not all of which is the servers). Why pay extra for an internal UPS for each piece when you can use the economies of scale to get a gigantic one that covers multiple pieces instead?
Also, the batteries in a UPS are a con
Re:Durability is an issue (Score:2)
Because the solution offers superior reliability and no single point of failure. Its hard to protect from someone from unplugging the server from the UPS. With batteries in the box you are protected. Also.. it's hardly fair to call putting it in the server a UPS. With batteries in the computer there is no DC->AC->DC conversion. It's DC->DC which is
Re:Durability is an issue (Score:1)
Re:Durability is an issue (Score:1)
I think it would be nice if every power supply had a battery or capacitor large enough to power the computer through a shutdown, modern programs and filesystems seem to handle random improper shutdowns better but it is nice to know everything was shut down properly.
as far as laptops as servers go the only difference in software between a server and a desktop are the programs that are installed. I have a p
Re:Durability is an issue (Score:2)
It is also a lot easier to manage a few big expensive UPS's than to keep track say 30 or 40 batteries. Then you have the cost. Laptop batteries are expensive Li-Poly batteries. USPs use nice cheap lead acid batteries usually gel-cells. They probably cost less than half what the Li-Poly cells would cost.
What you suggest might be good for a small office or home server but not for a data center. Even at home or a s
Re:Durability is an issue (Score:1)
Re:Durability is an issue (Score:1)
Once you get into the higher end servers, you start to see the PSUs separate from
Re:Durability is an issue (Score:2)
Running FC4 in runlevel 3, I can run sox, l
Re:Durability is an issue (Score:1)
I have multiple laptops that I run 24x7 without disk failures so far. They've run nearly continuously for a couple of years. Granted, they're being used as light duty terminals, not servers, but I'd imagine that with a light load you're probably OK. If you can configure it to spin down the disk and power down the LCD when not needed, you're golden.
I'll definitely second the idea of going with a flash device. In fact, it's cheap and easy to get a CompactFlash to 2.5" laptop IDE adapter, and use a CF card as
Re:Durability is an issue (Score:2)
Low power / portables are great (Score:2, Informative)
I've used laptops in many places where a larger computer would not do. For instance, before you could buy wireless access points which would do real IP routing, I used to use recycled laptops to provide access via routed subnets. They can be placed in the ceiling, in closets, et cetera. One even spent a good bit of time in a
Re:Low power / portables are great (Score:2)
Farallon and D-link are two MF's I know of that mfr USB NICs.
Re:Low power / portables are great (Score:2)
For a server that gets slashdotted and pushes 400Mbps of traffic, the implication is that it's doing about 400Mbps outbound, and maybe 20Mbps inbound (ACK packets, requests, etc.).
How would a pair of full duplex 100Mbps links help with that? You've got 200Mbps out and 200Mbps in.
Data weenies are being misleading bastards when they count both directions. Nobody claims a 33.6k modem is actually pushing 67.2k because it's symmetric. Oh look, my
Re:Low power / portables are great (Score:2)
Sure. Why wouldn't it work? (Score:2)
Yes, laptops have a build in ups (Score:4, Informative)
A regular laptop will have even worse hardware. The HD especially is a weakpoint. However for non-heavy use where either the number of reads is limited or even avoided by loading everything in memory a laptop is just a lowend pc.
It can be very usefull as long as you don't expect it to perform the same as a real server.
The build in UPS is however very handy. I worked at an ISP where for some reason the power wasn't that stable for a year or so. Didn't matter for the important stuff because they were on a UPS like system but it did mean regular power failures in the offices (I think it was because workmen kept digging up the powerlines or something).
Anyway I put the ISP job to good use in the form of running my own FTP server. Hey, when you got a fat pipe you need to share it right? It is what I tell my gf anyway :P
It ran of an old laptop hidden in my cupboard (note, do not store chocolate in drawer above a laptop running 24/7) and it just ran regardless of power interruptions. Our workfloor test server was not so lucky and because it was badly adminned it never automatically recovered after a powerfailure.
So I developer on a laptop against my server laptop with power down all around me. Kinda cool although I now realize I was the only one working while everyone else was goofing around.
So yes, laptops can be used to overcome power outages. HOWEVER for what reason? In my case the network was on its own UPS. Will your laptop be as lucky?
No point in running a server when there is no network to serve right?
On the other hand if you can get a cheap UPS to power your network then the batteries of a laptop can last a long time especially if you add all the batteries you can by replacing the cd. Mine lasted through a 8 hour power outage once. The screen being off makes a huge difference.
Just remember heat and HD performance. Then again, I did have the old HD from that computer in my normal server (with adapter) running for years afterwards. I think HD reliability is severly underestimated.
Go for it. Just don't post your server on slashdot.
Re:Yes, laptops have a build in ups (Score:2)
If you had heat problems, you could get a cheap external cooling solution, but as long as you're able to keep CPU usage down most of the time (so the CPU can clock down), you should be fine.
I wouldn't consider my laptop a "low-end" PC: at 1.66GHz dual-core and 2GB 667MHz DDR2, this system is much faster than the Athlon 64 system it replaced. It has gi
If a Mac Plus can do it (Score:2)
How about Mac Mini's? (Score:2)
Nobody else mentioned it, so (Score:2)
Google for robots / mini-itx / dc power or any of the case modding freak sites. They are making a couple of motherboard systems just for DC operations, and not the kind that run for a few hours as a laptop... the kind that run like servers, just on DC power.
If your serv
My experience (Score:1)
Pentium MMX 166 with 48MB RAM: Running Tinydns.
Pentium II 300 with 288MB RAM: Running Tinydns and Postfix.
Pentium III 500 with 128MB RAM: Running Hylafax.
Every one of them is doing a great job for me.
A few questions, and suggestions (Score:2)
What do you mean by "Reliable"? Laptops almost certainly don't have the reliability you want for any of the above purposes (Heat build up, unreliable fans), but it's still a relative term.
What's the purpose of keeping a server running if your
Old Toshiba (Score:1)
Laptops (Score:2)
1) Heat
2) Movement
3) Upgradeability/Physical Space
Laptops get hot. Make sure yours runs sufficiently cool if you're going to leave it unattended for any length of time. Also, as other posters have mentioned, check the fans regularly or make it run fanless. Mini-ITX is a good idea if you can afford the extra power as it will e
My laptop server uptime is 632 days today (Score:1)
So you want... (Score:1)
Sure -- Use an External Drive If Possible (Score:2)
I can't tell you the number of laptops I have deployed as
firewalls and catch-all linux servers in small offices.
Lots of people have laptops with damaged or broken LCDs
and will just about give them away. Maybe it is the hinge that
is cracked or maybe the screen has been squished and is
bleeding in some places. In any case, the owner is upgrading
or replacing and the laptop is next to free.
Domain Controller (Score:1)
With its oldish battery, I get 3-4 hours with the lcd off, plus plugging it into a UPS would probably get me even more.
I would definately go with something in the more "portable" end of the spectrum, the desktop replacements still eat the battery; but a laptop serv
Perhaps a SBC? (Score:2)
Now, that said, why are you trying to keep your server up and running for a long time? Presumably, the client machiens are also down during these outages?
If the main reason is to have a basic PC with a built-in UPS, then, yes, laptops
Re:Perhaps a SBC? (Score:2)
I would be happy with any fanless/diskless computer without vents. I have had about a dozen computers for about a dozen years and my failures have been due to disks breaking, fans breaking, and bugs getting into the computer and pooping (I live on a tropical island). The PIC [offshore.ai] would be great if I could boot Linux from a USB port.
Any Fanless/diskless/ventless system with nx-bit? (Score:2)
I was told there was going to be a version of the PIC [offshore.ai] that would be willing to boot Linux.
Re:Any Fanless/diskless/ventless system with nx-bi (Score:2)
Re:Any Fanless/diskless/ventless system with nx-bi (Score:2)
Should be fine with one change.... (Score:2)
The fix for this is rather simple provided you use an OS with a small footprint; like my file server's CLI-only Slackware Linux install (less than 1G). Replace the drive with a flash based 2.5" drive. They come in sizes of up to 8GBs for around $300 that I've found using Froogle [google.com]. An important addition to this
No Power = no uplink (Score:2)
Re:No Power = no uplink (Score:2)
got this question once from a clueless sessional (Score:2)
Anyway, at the time I was a
power? (Score:1)
Why not? (Score:2)
In fact, laptops in my experience are more reliable than desktops. One reason is the limited number of configurations due to lack of expandability. The other is that laptops are somewhat 'premium' products and therefore made with higher quality. The main drawback is
Running my blog off my ibook (Score:2)
It's worked for me. (Score:2)
I keep meaning to replace it, but it keeps working just fine. (I did get another box up as second
laptop, power management, server (Score:2)
i have power management turned down so the machine runs in the speedstep state of 1ghz max and 500 min. i did this because the p3 was getting a bit hot and i didn't need the extra performance that
this machine does the following jobs:
samba server w/ 4 firewire drives(200gb each) in raid5 for 600gb.
groupware/web server/mail server
router/gateway
this machine gets a fairly heavy loa
Good Heavens NO!!! (Score:1)
If that laptop server has *any* security information on it, you're asking for trouble. Read up on the Microsoft's recommendations if you have a domain controller stolen. Yep- rebuild the entire domain.
It's even worse if you have Certificate Services installed. Feel like re-issuing certificates on every PC in the company?
Physical security is the lowest level of security, upon which all other security is based. Give a hacker (or the spooks) your server's hard drive, a li
define your requirements, then meet them. (Score:1)
Our laptop server is a win2k server with domain controller and ms sql server for 2-8 data entry personnel. It was setup this way before I volunteered, it works great for their situation. I would like to change the clunky ni
Not for business uses (Score:2)
Probably not... (Score:2)
It's probably not the best solution (Score:2)
I mean, you're still paying a premium for the miniturization on a laptop, and the result is a 2-3 hour built-in UPS. A good UPS, some of which will take additional external batteries, would run a low power machine for quite a while. The side adva
Hurrican LX800 / Geode LX (Score:2)
Right tool for the job (Score:1)
You're done.