DebConf6, Hot and Spicy 90
What do a space tourist, a skinny dipper, politics, and code have in common? This year's DebConf, of course! Robin 'Roblimo' Miller has the writeup over on NewsForge (Also owned by VA). From the article: "Shuttleworth was back in Oaxtepec Wednesday, hanging out and chatting with individuals and small groups, checking his email, and otherwise behaving like most other DebConf attendees. It was obvious that even if not all of them loved him -- or Ubuntu, or his for-profit company, Canonical Ltd. -- he considered this small group important enough to be worth more of his time than the 14,000 people who went to JavaOne."
reading comprehension skills (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What about the fight? (Score:5, Informative)
First I want to say that this was my first experience with the Debian community and I knew almost nobody at all.
I have known Ted a long time and we shared a room there.
Throughout the conference there was a small group (about 10) that seemed to be out to get Ted Walther any way possible. Probably because he is outspoken and not afraid to say what many others were thinking but afraid to say. Or that he had sent some E-mail's that challenge the Debian management. I don't know or even really care, because it shouldn't matter really.
So last Thursday night, way the hell out in the middle of no where at a resort 1.5 hours south of Mexico City they had "formal dinner" with rumors of a dance afterwards. Ted decided to invite a lady, a friend of the local ISP's owner, named Hilda.
This group, after spreading many rumors about Walther that were totally false, one of which that his date, Hilda (a local entrepreneur in a very small town where everyone knows everyone and runs a dental administration company) was accused of being a prostitute, and this was because Ted couldn't possible get a woman on his own. Being that I was there when Ted met her at the local Internet cafe, this vicious rumor is definitely not true.
After rumors failed, 7 guys tried to rush him and became quite agitated and violent. I am a fairly big guy and happen to be standing in the doorway at the time of the attack against Ted.
Several people where behind him and they would have pushed Walther and several innocent bystanders over the 2 foot ledge that lead to the street, probably injuring some of them.
I actually stepped in between and told them, "Do you want to get physical?" not really knowing what the hell was taking place, but that it wasn't good. The group backed off very quickly.
The management assured me they would listen to all sides and make a decision.
That night at 4 am a group was in the hallway talking and I approached them and introduced myself,"hello, we haven't been introduced, my name is
But the next morning at 7am the Andreas Schuldei entered our room and demanded Walther leave the premises immediately for his own safety. That his presence would provoke violence, and promptly dumped him out on the street, broke and stranded out in the middle of nowhere.
They then removed him totally from the Debian project, his accounts, E-mail and even blog posts and photo from the groups mugshot collections.
I am incredibly offended by the management decisions to punish the victim and not the perpetrators and the way they went about this in secret!
Re:What about the fight? (Score:4, Informative)
Several people were spreading many rumors about Walther that were totally false, one of which that his date, was a prostitute, and this was because Ted couldn't possible get a woman on his own.
Being that I was there when Ted met her at the local Internet cafe, this vicious rumor is definitely not true.
Ted was not a saint (Score:1, Informative)
The Debconf6 events are not clear, and I am not in a position to talk about them other than to say that not everyone agrees with how it was handled (and that I personally don't agree on how these events were handled, either).
But if you are kicked from Debian, we do it right: you are NOT given a time window to do damage: your access rights are immediately revoked, as we can always reinstate them if the expulsion is undone for any reason. All Debian resources, including the email address, are solely for uses related to the Debian project. Duh. I have no idea about the deal with mugshots, though.
Anyway, the Debconf6 events were *not* the reason Ted was swiftly kicked out of Debian. He was thrown out because, after years of dealing with it, the project had enough: he finally managed to break the camel's back. Mind you, it is *QUITE* difficult to get thrown out from Debian: Ted managed something only a warez loser had managed to do before. If you doubt this, ask any Debian developer.
On the other hand, IMHO, Ted should not have been thrown out of Debconf6 at all, and the people involved in these events should have been subject to a throughout dressing down. You don't do that to someone even if he deserves it (and it is becoming clear he didn't in this particular case).
Re:Ted was not a saint (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Ted was not a saint (Score:2, Informative)
Err... what part of suggesting that people tried to assassinate Ted is not a wacky conspiracy theory in its own right?
Who are you claiming invited Ted to DebConf? The conference was widely announced in the Debian developer community, with information on how to register and apply for travel sponsorship; obviously these announcements didn't claim "Ted need not apply", but did he receive a personal invitation from the organizing committee that none of the rest of us did? If not, in what sense was he being "lured" to Mexico? It would require a remarkable degree of naivete for him to believe he would be welcomed warmly by everyone on the organizing committee, after making unsubstantiated claims of sponsorship favoritism based on fabricated details, accusing the organizers of religious discrimination for being unable to accomodate his singular dietary requirements, and describing the venue as a "second-rate hotel in a third world country."
While some of the behavior I witnessed at the formal dinner was disappointingly uncivilized, it does say something about how much he actually "mended relationships" there that people found the rumors credible enough to warrant attempting to eject him from the dinner. (No, not "assassinating" him, not "beating him senseless" -- generally if you're trying to injure someone you don't do so by pushing them towards the door on the far side of the building...) I don't know if someone in Ted's company thought it would be funny to let people think he had brought a prostitute, but evidently others at the event didn't find this idea humorous at all.
Re:Ted was not a saint (Score:4, Informative)
I still fail to see a real reason. How can holding a foam rubber bat be so offensive to people that they should try to beat him up or remove him from debian?!
If you read Anthony's letter it never states specifics just "disruptions", "disturbances", "provoke"
As example requesting Kosher Food. Oh my god! If requesting Kosher food is disruptive then
For me personally I don't eat Pork and it was impossible to tell what the meals were made of some really look like pork. Being Pork free in Mexico and at the Debconf when you don't speak the language was a serious problem.
Then later claims such as "Nazi propaganda and Holocaust denial information" this is based on them never having read what he had, or the context that it was in, which was in a very pro-jewish, we must never let it happen again light. I also believe that people need to see these documents! That hiding them will only doom us to repeat the past.
Well which is it Anthony? Is he a NAZI or a JEW!
"Why Didn't King Solomon Kill The Two Prostitutes".
Did anyone bother to read this one!!!
It's all bible quotes. But for many I'm sure the bible is too offensive!
From that very blog post:
You cannot hit one party with the full penalty then let another get off free for the same crime. It is better to err on the side of mercy, so if you do not convict one, you should not convict another. This is violated daily by un-Godly governments who selectively enforce their laws to "make examples" of people. Such selective enforcement is neither fair or just.
How appropriate since they did just what he spoke against the very next day.
from the Debian private list that I am not bound to silence on
Anthony Towns
to debian-private
Hi,
It's my regret to report that the Debian Account Managers, James Troup
and Joerg Jaspert, have decided to expel Ted Walther (aka Jonathan
Walther, with IRC nicks SirDibos, SirDinosaur, Dinosaur, and account
name krooger@debian.org) from the project.
Ted has been a continuing source of disturbance within the project, and
whether deliberately or accidently has repeatedly acted in ways to provoke
other members of the project and make their participation in both the
project at large and DebConf 6 in particular difficult and uncomfortable.
The triggering event for this expulsion was a disturbance at the DebConf
Formal Dinner, which I'll detail as best I can in a separate mail.
This has followed a number of other incidents at DebConf 6. The first
of these that has been communicated to me were a number of disruptive
communications with the travel sponsorship team in April, where Ted
attempted to override the deadline for travel sponsorship in various ways
[0].
This was followed in the next few days by complaints regarding the lack
of food conforming to his dietary requirements, which he described as
the "Karaite Jewish version of kashrut" in contrast to Jewish kosher
food. When informed that the vegan/vegetarian menu would conform with
his requirements, and that the hotel would not be able to conform with
his requirements otherwise, he responded by accusing the organisers of
"kosher discrimination", and booking a "second rate hotel in a third
world country" where the cooks are "not worth their salt".
In order to ensure that the debconf lists remained useful, his posts
were moderated, with only the mails containing a question others might
be interested in, or some information others might find useful being
allowed through.
Ted's conference registration was accepted, and he obtained room and
food sponsorship for the period of his stay.
After arriving at DebConf, Ted brought along a foam rubber bat
labelled with "clue", and hit a number of organisers and delegates
with i