Ticketmaster to Start Online Ticket Auction 390
Jason1729 writes "According to the NY Times, ticketmaster is going to begin auctioning off the best tickets to events online. They claim it's to eliminate scalping, but in truth it guarantees every seat will be scalped for the highest price with all the money going to ticketmaster. It also eliminates the possibility of getting a decent seat by waiting in line or being lucky."
Waiting in line? (Score:2, Insightful)
If the price being asked for a ticket is too much then maybe you didn't really want to go that much
As long as there are safe guards in place to create a safe / fair auction, eg single blind bid
Sounds like the free market. (Score:3, Insightful)
Capitalism in action (Score:5, Insightful)
The guy is absolutely right. (Score:5, Insightful)
Ticketmaster has every right to dictate their business model. And I have every right not to buy from them. I applaud his efforts to take back money lost to middle-men nipping at his heels. As long as the market will bear those prices - then go for it. This means that concerts will increasingly become the past time of the rich, yes, and they will leave some of their best fans, the teenagers, out in the cold. If there's enough blowback they might go back to the 'wait in line at 8am on Sunday for cheap tickets' model - but not if they are making good money. Perhaps some alternatives will spring up to fill the gap. Who knows.
As for myself however, I find some of their business practices riotously lame, and I haven't bought tickets to a big concert in years, and I scrupulously avoid ticketmaster. Mostly because:
Maybe one day live music will return to a more sane level of operation. In the mean time I'll continue to partake of smaller venues and lesser known bands. With the money I save I can buy some albums and listen to them in the comfort of my car or on my stereo / computer at home. Obviously there are plenty of people who don't agree with me, because they fill the stadiums up with people at any price currently.
Like the situation with the RIAA, the only ones who can change it are the acts themselves. They have to conciously choose to publish independently (which is actually possible with the internet) and not use companies like ticketmaster when promoting and selling live events. It takes a serious amount of balls to be the first major act, but I believe if enough acts choose to go this route, it will reach a critical mass that will again change the industry. All it takes is for one well connected entrepreuer to convince some of his rock star friends to go in on a website where the site gets 10% of the cut and the artist gets 90%. Then you can sell songs for 25 cents or 50 cents a piece, and most of it goes to the artist. And the artist is still making directly more than he or she would than through Itunes, and the sales are good because of the low price
Supply/demand imbalance (Score:5, Insightful)
Why the negative tone of the poster? (Score:5, Insightful)
As for the comment that the scalping fee goes to the organizer, is that not better than it going to a scalper? We all talk enthusiastically about the day that the extortion of money from fans with high prices for DRM'd albums will stop and be replaced by artists earning money honestly with performances. This is a step towards making performance a more attractive source of income.
Evolution in action (Score:2, Insightful)
What we are approaching is a graded experience; from right at the front with a great view, great sound (and atmosphere); through the also rans in the arena; to those watching live at home, and finally those watching the concert DVD. People will pay varying amount depending on the quality of that experience. Particularly stupid people will pay very, very large amounts. At the same time, the performer may well want demonstrative fans at the front to feed off. That brings in the concept of 'fan points', offsetting pure money will other contributions to the event.
The smart promoter will do more than a simple auction of seats - they will optimise on the value of the event and the contributions to that both on and off stage; and in reputation and future album sales.
I wonder if there actually are any smart promoters out there?
Re:Waiting in line? (Score:2, Insightful)
True capitalism (Score:2, Insightful)
Besides Ticketmaster, Broadway shows have also instituted "premium" ticket pricing (up to $400+ a ticket!). If someone's willing to pay that price, more power to them. If the new economy of ticket pricing puts the tickets out of range for most patrons, that's fine by me. The market will provide more local, "lower-scale" entertainment -- more regional theater, more minor league ballclubs, more local bands and performers -- all within reach of the average audience.
For entertainment (at the very least), a free market can correct itself in very short order.
- Richie
You hit it exactly. (Score:3, Insightful)
When you have a lot more money coming to you based on the number of fans you have, it becomes much more tempting to release your music for free to make it back on the concerts.
The better technology gets at distributing bands' music for them, the more attractive this gets.
Re:The guy is absolutely wrong, by a long shot. (Score:2, Insightful)
Ticketmaster has every right to dictate their business model. And I have every right not to buy from them. I applaud his efforts to take back money lost to middle-men nipping at his heels. As long as the market will bear those prices - then go for it. This means that concerts will increasingly become the past time of the rich, yes, and they will leave some of their best fans, the teenagers, out in the cold. If there's enough blowback they might go back to the 'wait in line at 8am on Sunday for cheap tickets' model - but not if they are making good money.
Strange that things are always good to do when you've thrown ethics out the window and they're bad if you try to replace ethics in economic activity.
Ticketmaster is once more proof positive that "free market" systems can fail. Start with the allowance of an endgame that is rewarded inversely of what ethics you practice, back it up with a hollow "it's a want, we arent pointing a gun to your head" justification, and you have market failure.
Regulation is all that is needed - and enforce it, even if it is unprofitable. Even things that are pure wants deserve protection. Just be sure to lock out the lobbyists out of the process, to ensure that the regulation isnt watered down.
Perhaps some alternatives will spring up to fill the gap.
Not in my lifetime- that's going to be quite a long one presuming ethics still is present in the economics of healthcare (given that it left us this year).
Re:Time to route around the damage... (Score:3, Insightful)
Ticketmaster is going to have to cut acts in (Score:3, Insightful)
Pay attention as arguments and policies designed for 'free'ing the market continue to wither those 80% who are labor-dependent. And by that I mean you without a portfolio that has you set for life. The era of the post-WWII/New Deal is over and the consequences for being you and your children will only grow harsher.
I kid, I kid. This is a great idea. Anyone know if Ticketmaster is a public company? Ack.. I may have just given away my scheme to make it to the other 20%.
Re:If you cant beat them, you have too much ethics (Score:5, Insightful)
At least with scalpers, while illigit, are working hard to make that buck. They stand in line, they shell out money for tickets, and resell them. They peform a useful service for those of us who can't stand in line... and that service is worth a few bucks to say the least. Better yet often times for overpriced over hyped shows they sell them at a huge discount. For example the Who's tour for their album Next seemed to have more scalpers than attendees... as also was the case for the U2 ZooTV tour.
Ticketmaster on the other hand is working with venues to artificaly infact the cost of tickets that normally would be flat rate. Call me silly, but I prefer the scalpers. It's income for the otherwise unemployed, and it sure beats selling things that are outright illegal and very much harmful like *crack*.
Re:Sounds like the free market. (Score:2, Insightful)
Pearl Jam tried to boycott TM for years and the only thing that happened was fans couldn't see the band in concert. There simply weren't concert venues that didn't use TM for Pearl Jam to go to.
Free market implies the consumers have a choice. We don't.
Re:Waiting in line? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Waiting in line? (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I completely disagree with the auction idea. I'd consider partial auctions, for limited quantities of seats (season boxes, charity auctions) where only small numbers would be affected, but auctions for every seat in the house not previously taken by the promoter or group buyers directly? Puhleeze. That's just asking for scalping to get worse, by pricing event tickets for popular events even farther out of the average person's reach. Most people who keep up with a team or a star do so because they feel that they can get tickets when they want to, even if it's somewhat expensive. This will sorely disillusion them to this.
Scalpers win huge numbers of tickets by having mass numbers of workers getting tickets for them, then collecting the tickets and reselling at high markup or at auction. This is essentially the same strategy Ticketmaster uses, except that they lock in contracts requiring the use of Ticketmaster as the sole official sales force, so they get to legally kick around every other scalper with C&D orders, but don't, because the scalpers make them so much money. Instead, they C&D the people promoting the events Ticketmaster sells tickets to, even if it's private sales to individuals/groups, so Ticketmaster gets all the sales profit that they can.
Re:Waiting in line? (Score:3, Insightful)
So? If anything this will encourage people to find new artists to follow. This is a good thing. If too many people get ticked off at Menudo or New Kids on the Block for the incredibly high ticket prices perhaps these groups will find ways to play without having to use Ticketmaster. This is a good thing.
Re:The guy is absolutely right. (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't like the last minute 'fees' and 'surcharges' - they should just list an all inclusive price up front, it's not like they have competitors in most cases, unless you want to drive to the box office of the event venue during limited hours.
Maybe you should get your tickets earlier as then there are no last minute fees. Shipping and handling charges make sense, especially as venue pickup and international deliveries make these costs variable.
I'm tired of the cavity search to get into a rock concert. I don't consider that part of a pleasant evening out. Concert security lately resembles the presidential motorcade. This is a problem in general with live events where any semi-famous person is present. It's just gotten silly and I'm not interested in feeling like I'm in the Soviet Union. It ruins the atmosphere.
Did you stop flying also? By the way, most rock concert searches focus on drinks brought outside and professional digital cameras, not security. And it only happens for a small amount of semi-mainstream rock artists.
I'm tired of rock concerts being at volume 11 - why should I wear earplugs when you can just turn the volume down? Are you doing that to benefit the one already-partially deaf person in the audience? Movie theaters with nice sound systems are pleasantly loud. Concerts are deafening. What's the point? Why have sound above what human hearing can tolerate without hearing protection?
Perhaps you should attend Celine Dion concerts instead of rock concerts.
the crowds, the stanky toilets, the not being able to see the band from across the stadium....
If you queue early you'll have an excellent view from the very front row (assuming a general admission show, which most rock concerts are). The bigger the crowd, the least I expect from venue facilities. Perhaps you should stay clear of large public events though, if crowds piss you off.
The enormous prices. I appreciate that the shows are big and expensive, but I'd much rather go to a symphony hall or a Loreena McKennitt concert. Maybe I'm just getting old. 20 years ago concerts were an order of magnitude cheaper - and that's taking inflation into account. $16 for Oingo Boingo. I have my ticket stub still.
There are still many, many shows to be seen in the $5-$15 range. Perhaps not mainstream artists, but you can't then compare to Oingo Boingo who haven't had a chart hit ever.
Maybe one day live music will return to a more sane level of operation. In the mean time I'll continue to partake of smaller venues and lesser known bands.
As do I.
But don't hold your breath for live music ever "returning" to your ideal situation. Your issues are with mainstream events, not with live music events. You'd get the same shitty prices, facilities and obnoxious crowds at a popular sports game.
Re:Waiting in line? (Score:4, Insightful)
But I think Ticketmaster is already gouging the public. I don't go to big name concerts anymore because a $25 ticket winds up costing almost $40 once all the "fees" are added on. And thats just for a ticket to some kids show like Dora or The Wiggles. I can't believe the people that actually will spend that kind of money to take their 3 year olds. Maybe its just me. Maybe I'm stuck in some kind of time warp. Or maybe a $50K job just doesn't cut it anymore.
Re:Waiting in line? (Score:3, Insightful)
-Kurt
Re:Welcome news! (Score:2, Insightful)
That is the only choice they need. They go and pay, or they don't go and don't pay. Why is this so bad?
Y'know, I've heard that supermarkets have near total control over the distribution of food, and often jack up prices by 35% or more! The manufacturers of the food themselves jack up the prices far in excess of what they are paying the farmers for! Do you know how much a 50lb sack of potatoes costs? Do you know what a small order of fries costs? Is there no shame in the things they will do to chase a profit??!?
The funny thing about people who act as if concert tickets were a basic human right, and who complain about gouging by the entertainment industry, and complain about poor quality entertainment product, is that they are really big suckers. It is the entertainment industry which has marketed itself into your brain and convinced you they are important, and you have embraced them and decided they are important, and now you resent them for being important. No matter how much you hate them because they abuse you, you can't stop loving them and can't give them up. Stop complaining or stop being obssessed.
Re:Welcome news! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Welcome news! (Score:3, Insightful)
Although I admit the situation is more grey where the public has been scammed into funding construction of a venue, but in those situations I think it's more a case of 'sucks to be you, next time watch who you vote for.' Besides which, most times the argument for using public funds to build stadiums and venues isn't one of "you'll be able to go to concerts!" but instead it's something along the lines of "it'll create x jobs in our city" (where x is outrageously large). So I don't think the public can really claim that they were promised affordable access to events -- unless it was in writing and part of the funding deal, in which case they can take the venue operator to court. But generally speaking, it's just one more reason why spending public money on those kinds of projects (casinos, malls, etc. also) are a bad idea, and the politicians who support them generally sleazeballs of the highest order.
You have no right to go to a concert or sporting event, and you certainly have no right to sit in a front-row seat. If you want to do any of those things, you can pay for them, and you can compete with other people who want to do them for who's willing to pay the most. If you don't want to pay ridiculous sums of money to go to a concert, or sit in a particular seat, don't do it.
Eventually, the concert promoters will hit the limits of what people are willing to pay for and they'll reduce the prices, or stop increasing them. But as long as people keep acting like going to concerts and sporting events are some sort of a necessity in order to live, they're going to keep them priced according to that demand (in other words: high).
If you don't like paying the ticket price with the Ticketmaster tax included, don't go. If it's worth your money to see a particular act or team, I won't fault you for going, it's your money to spend however you want. But it's just like buying any other consumer good: if you purchase it, you're implicitly saying that the business model that produced it is "okay by me!" If that's not true, take your hand away from your wallet, and go buy some blank CD-Rs instead.
Re:Waiting in line? (Score:1, Insightful)