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Microsoft Responds To 360 Hackers 170

Posted by Zonk
from the get-off-my-lawn dept.
Microsoft would like to remind you that hacking your console most definitely voids your warranty. From the Eurogamer article: "Modified consoles, Microsoft added, 'will not be eligible for technical support, and the user's warranty will be voided ... the protection of intellectual property rights is a high priority for Microsoft and our partners, one that significantly and positively impacts economic growth, technological innovation, and most importantly, the confidence of customers who count on the integrity and quality of their products.'"
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Microsoft Responds To 360 Hackers

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    Haw haw!

    -Microsoft
  • well, duh! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by macdaddy357 (582412) <macdaddy357@hotmail.com> on Thursday May 18, 2006 @10:39PM (#15362740)
    Did some baboon actually call them for technical support after soldering in a mod chip and watching it go boom?
    • more then likely the awnser is yes.
      ,br> someone probably though "COOL! I can get free games now!" did it incorrectly and could no longer boot regular 360 games, called up Microsoft and asked about it went through the normal questions and found out he would have to send the console in, realizing this he (cause let's face it, only a guy would be THIS stupid) mentioned that he tried to fix it himself and ended up taking the thing apart to try and fix it, they knew right away what he did and let him know th
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Remember, the reason Draino has "Do not drink" on the label is because someone did. By definition, half of all people are below average intelligence.
  • Does this mean they haven't been detected on Xbox live yet? Is there any news of this?

    Of course it won't be warrantied...if M$ is trying to scare them now, it's a bit too late as the warranty seal on the console has already been broken. Just a scare tactic for M$, a risk that's already been calculated for the modders.
    • Re:Xbox Live (Score:2, Insightful)

      by sdnoob (917382)
      how long until there's an "xbox genuine advantage" program in place that requires a net connection every time you change discs?
      • I would guess that Microsoft implements the same thing they did on the last XBOX, if a mod is detected that XBOX is no longer allowed on Live. Then you get alternatives to live and people have to decide if they want to use live or something else. There wouldn't be something that requires a check everytime you change a disc just everytime you connect to live, I would guess you would need to block the connection to live for a mod to work for the 360.
    • I don't see how you could call it a scare tactic. We all knew it already, and it's a simple statement. They're just reminding you of one of the risks when you do the whole risk/reward weighing in your head.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18, 2006 @10:44PM (#15362764)
    Understand that the last thing I need is your support.

    Signed,

    Anonymous
    • This is totally true for Windows, but I've heard tons of stories of defective hardware. Hardware that I wouldn't want to fix myself, I'd want to hand it over to them, and say, "YOU built this piece of crap, YOU fix it."

      I wouldn't hack one until like the third generation units come out. Just like I won't run a Window OS until at least the second service pack.

      Besides, until there's an XBMC for it, it's not worth hacking,imho.
  • Meaningless (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sean0michael (923458) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @10:46PM (#15362775)
    I don't know about other /.ers, but I've never had to call tech support for a game console, nor have I ever needed to use the warranty. As far as I can tell, voiding your warranty is only a nominal loss, nothing more. Most people who are thinking about modding their XBox won't care about the warranty--they know full well they are voiding it. They probably have the connections to fix whatever they break. I guarantee MS doesn't.
    • Eh, some PS2s have notoriously bad spindle motors. Usually they'll last until the warentee runs out though.

      Since the mod doesn't involve a soldering iron there's much less chance of permanently wrecking your console. Heck, I think one of the first steps is to take a backup of the firmware so you can fix it if something goes wrong.
      • As for the PS2, it has usually been the laser in my experience. I have 2 sitting here, with a 3rd untested (was given to me), and they both play CDs fine, just not most DVDs.
    • Re:Meaningless (Score:5, Informative)

      by kahanamoku (470295) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @11:45PM (#15363098)
      Its not exactly technical support, but I DID actually call them for support on my Xbox360 in an effort to recover the copy of HexicHD that I deleted (as many others have) in an effort to reclaim some space on the HDD (expecting the game to take up the 7 gigs of space that was missing from the 20GB drive).

      After giving them my GamerTag, Email Addresses, Phone Numbers and Xbox360 Serial number they gave me a reference number for the call and I am to "expect a return call from them within the next week with the prepaid code" that I need to enter to enable to download from xbox live .... THAT WAS 5 WEEKS AGO!!!

      How can they claim they wont give you support if you void your warranty? it's no different than what they provide at the moment with a valid warranty.
      • Re:Meaningless (Score:5, Informative)

        by Osty (16825) on Friday May 19, 2006 @12:31AM (#15363276)

        Its not exactly technical support, but I DID actually call them for support on my Xbox360 in an effort to recover the copy of HexicHD that I deleted (as many others have) in an effort to reclaim some space on the HDD (expecting the game to take up the 7 gigs of space that was missing from the 20GB drive).

        Either you can't read, or you can't do math. :) When you go to delete anything from the hard drive, you can see exactly how much space it takes (in KB or MB, depending on the item). Even if you saw that Hexic is ~30MB and didn't realize that it was accurate, you're never going to get 20GB out of that hard drive. First off, 20GB == 18.6GiB (silly hard drive marketing using the SI definition of GB, while Microsoft displays "GiB" as "GB" on the dashboard). From that, subtract another 4GiB for game buffers (same deal as in the original Xbox, though they never told you the exact size there. Everything was in "blocks"), some amount of space for Xbox emulation, filesystem overhead, and the dashboard, OS, and related resources, and it makes perfect sense that you only get ~13-14GiB of usable space on a 20GB/18.6GiB drive.

        Oh, yeah, if you haven't heard back from support, call them again. They're people, too, and it's not unheard of for people to forget things once in a while. You just may be unlucky.

        • then there's a lot more wrong at MS than even slashdotters might normally predict.

          Hopefully the support people aren't tracking your call using yellow stickies on the cube wall to remind them "Call Joe, re: code" Usually there's something more sophisticated than that for tracking support. Either there's an automated system for handling this, or at the very least the ticket should be coming up as unresolved. Saying "hey, anyone might forget" is a little silly
          • Hopefully the support people aren't tracking your call using yellow stickies on the cube wall to remind them "Call Joe, re: code" Usually there's something more sophisticated than that for tracking support.

            Hey, are you knocking my tech support methods? I'm far more likely to call someone back if I have a yellow sticky note taped to my monitor than if I have to remember to check Remedy once in awhile for open tickets.

            • At the company I work for, having open tickets stay untouched for over three days affects your performance review, as well as your bonus.

              That said, I WISH we had Remedy. We have Unicenter Service Desk (USD) and it's widely disrespected over here. It's nrealy impossible to perform a simple text search to locate a previous problem, so as to assist you with the problem at hand.
      • After giving them my GamerTag, Email Addresses, Phone Numbers and Xbox360 Serial number they gave me a reference number for the call and I am to "expect a return call from them within the next week with the prepaid code" that I need to enter to enable to download from xbox live .... THAT WAS 5 WEEKS AGO!!!

        Sounds like a lot of jobs I have interviewed for.
    • Actually, the motherboard in my SNES blew when it was brand new. Thankfully it was still a few days till the warranty ran out.
    • Re:Meaningless (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Microsoft actually has very, very good tech support for their consoles.

      About a year after purchasing my first Xbox (the first one), it broke down for some reason and simply would not start up. After calling their tech support, they let me know that my warranty was over (it had been over a year) and that she had "some bad news." The bad news was that they would be sending me a box for me to package the Xbox and send to them, for free to fix, for free. Afterwards, they sent the Xbox back to me weekend ov

      • if this is a true story, why post AC?

        anyways, i trust that some people have had great interactions w/ tech support. each call is different. some people may get a really nice tech, some people may not. case in point, many people say that the xbox360 launch returns went well, because they got their console back within days. others complain because it took them weeks. MS is just like any other major company when you call for support: YMMV
    • I don't know about other /.ers, but I've never had to call tech support for a game console, nor have I ever needed to use the warranty.

      This /.er has. My (original) XBox blew up my home cinema amplifier. Dunno what was wrong with it (voltage spike when turned on?) but after a while the input that the XBox was on would break. (Sound which was identical on both channels was amplified as it should be; sounds which were only on one channel were not amplified at all, so couldn't be heard.) The first time it hap

    • I bought an X-Box, and it died completely while in warranty. Hard drive failed in an unrecoverable manner (you could hear the clicks across the room).

      I called tech support, spoke to some guy in the US (I'm in Australia) and after he thoroughly probed me he arranged a pre-paid box to be sent to me so I could have the unit repaired/replaced.

      Without the warranty I'd have been down a few hundred dollars. Outside the warranty period, I'd happily hack the X-Box, but inside that time I consider hacking it to be a
    • How long is the Xbox360's warranty anyway? Xbox's was only two months here in the US (I've heard it was longer just about everywhere else) and if you wanted a year you had to pay like $40 or some crap. I just waited my two months, cracked the case, and hacked my Xbox up, and now it's my media player (and I play SNES games on it now and then.) I've bought all of like seven games for it, and I only got one of 'em new.
  • what's new? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by sk8dork (842313)
    so, pretty much nothing is different or new? same thing went with the original xbox, and i'm pretty sure the same thing goes for any piece of hardware. i'm sure this was also already in place before recent events. so microsoft is reminding everyone? ok.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Of course. Would you expect anything different from anyone else?
  • "...the protection of intellectual property rights ... significantly and positively impacts technological innovation..." I'd love to see MS pay an 'independant 3rd party' to determine the truth on that.
  • so wrong (Score:5, Insightful)

    by foQ (551575) on Thursday May 18, 2006 @10:55PM (#15362844)
    Let's look at the things which Microsoft claims are "significantly and positively impact[ed]" by trying to protect their Intellectual Property:

    economic growth
    The only economic growth impacted is the upward growth of the modchip makers -- an industry Microsoft can't dominate and bully. What happenned to the economic growh of Netscape when Microsoft integrated IE into Windows -- a design flaw that has not been corrected even in Vista! How about all of the patents illegally used by Microsoft over the years? Why was their "economic growh" and Intellectual Property not worth protecting?

    technological innovation
    The modchip industry is pretty damn innovative! You have a huge multi-billion dollar company in a huge multi-billion dollar industry designing these consoles to be hackproof, yet a few guys in a garage can hack them in under a year. That is technological innovation, too, it's just not in a way that Microsoft can stifle and control. It is open innovation, published and available to all.

    and most importantly, the confidence of customers who count on the integrity and quality of their products.
    Integrity like scratching discs to unpreadability? Quality like overheating and frequent crashes? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the modders and makers who designed ways to cool the power supplies and devices? From strings to hang the power brick to watercooling for the processors, the hardware hackers have been improving on the designs of the XBOX 360. It seems to me like these problems should have been fixed BEFORE shipping by highly paid designers, not AFTER shipping by fans who didn't want to feel cheated out of their money.
    • Hey to be fair when Internet Explorer was first rolled into windows it won because Netscape sucked at the time.
      • Hey to be fair when Internet Explorer was first rolled into windows it won because Netscape sucked at the time.

        It's true. The foulness of Communicator is what destroyed Netscape. IE4 was leaps and bounds ahead in the key demographic of "people who don't like horrible browsers."
    • Excuse me? I use Vista. IE is NOWHERE NEAR integrated.
      • First, you are a minority in using an unreleased BETA operating system. Second, IE is integrated in every mainstream windows since Windows 95 SP1.

        Microsoft finally listened to people with Vista, thank god.
        • No, microsoft finally listened to people that refuse to use Windows b/c of the inherent security flaws. We've had, for years and YEARS, Linux users complaining of the security flaws inherent thru integration with the operating system. We bitched at them after they started to realize they were nowhere near secure with their crap webwork of modules and components that were necessary to work the operating system - and they FINALLY listened to us.*

          It's about time they took a 'password for every program' appr
    • Re:so wrong (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Nos9 (442559)
      Actually I for one, do prefer not to have people cheating when I play them in online games...
          Halo 2 used to be fun, running into a guy who shoots you from his flying warthog (and yes I mean the damn thing flew through the air) through walls with automatic headshots is anything but fun, nor is playing capture the flag with a guy who can run across the map in 1 second, capturing your teams flag about the same time the system tells you it has been taken.
    • Re:so wrong (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Osty (16825) on Friday May 19, 2006 @12:07AM (#15363191)

      The modchip industry is pretty damn innovative! You have a huge multi-billion dollar company in a huge multi-billion dollar industry designing these consoles to be hackproof, yet a few guys in a garage can hack them in under a year. That is technological innovation, too, it's just not in a way that Microsoft can stifle and control. It is open innovation, published and available to all.

      This is the classic dilemma of anybody doing anything security-related. If you're defending, you havet o protect the entire system against any possible hole, usually with limited man power (yes, even in the OSS world), and under a time constraint to get the software/hardware out (you may patch it later, but you need "good enough" from the start). If you're attacking, you just need one tiny little hole, and you have all the time in the world to do it. And, you're working with essentially infinite man power (while you're focusing on one hole, another attacker somewhere else is focusing on a different one). Innovation here lies in how long you can keep your system unhackable.

      Integrity like scratching discs to unpreadability?

      It's your own damned fault if you don't understand the physics of a spinning disk and try to reorient your Xbox 360 while a disk is playing. Maybe Microsoft shouldn't have made the Ring of Light adjust with the orientation of the console, as that would keep the sheeple from screwing up their games because they want to see the pretty lights. Not a design flaw (go try it with a PS2 -- you'll have the same problem. Nobody was ever stupid enough to do it with a PS2 because there is no Ring of Light on the front).

      Quality like overheating and frequent crashes?

      I can't help but think the overheating issues were way overstated by early adopters and the media. By all accounts, my own 360 is "launch window" (build date of early December, purchased mid-December), and I've yet to run into an overheating issues. Then again, I don't box my 360 up in an enclosed media center, with no airflow around the console or the power supply. You wouldn't put a PC in an enclosure with poor circulation, so why would you do that with an Xbox? There was a verified problem with a bad batch of power supplies, but you could get that replaced under warranty (but not if you modded!). Not to mention the many cases where crashes were attributed to overheating when the real culprit was a poorly-connected power supply (you have to push it in until it clicks and the little clip catches. Otherwise, you're not going to have a solid power connection and could easily crash the box because of it).

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the modders and makers who designed ways to cool the power supplies and devices?

      You're both right and wrong. Modders did design ways to cool the 360, though none of them were particularly innovative (if you can't cool it better than Microsoft did in the same form factor, it's not an innovation). However, those modifications are unnecessary with a little common sense, and potentially a power supply swap.

      You want to talk about innovation? Okay. Go build a comparably-powered PC in the same form factor or smaller. I bet you can't do it. No, Mini-ITX.com [mini-itx.com] doesn't count, because those PCs are nowhere near as powerful as a 360 (they make great media centers, though!). Even Sony can't do it. The PS3 is going to be huge. The 360 is no larger than a PS2. Don't believe me? I'll take a picture. I have my PS2 standing right next to my 360, and the 360 is approximately .5 inch taller due to the hard drive, and no wider. It's a little deeper by about 1.5 inches, but that's less than the old Xbox and much less than my cable box or my DVD player.

      • Re:so wrong (Score:3, Informative)

        by devnull17 (592326) *

        I think you're probably right about most of that, but the 360 is substantially bigger and heavier than a PS2, and also requires an external power supply the size of a brick.

        Not that the 360 isn't an impressive piece of engineering, but it's much more comparable in size and mass to the original XBox.

    • What happenned to the economic growh of Netscape when Microsoft integrated IE into Windows

      Ok, I know it's off-topic, but the only one to blame for Netscape's problem is Netscape. The reason IE became more popular than Netscape is because, at the time, IE was *better* than Netscape. It had nothing to do with integration with the OS. Netscape crashed regularly, got rid of their stand-alone browser in favor of a behemoth that did everything poorly and nothing well, and then to completely finish themselves,
  • "...the protection of intellectual property rights...significantly and positively impacts economic growth, technological innovation, and most importantly, the confidence of customers who count on the integrity and quality of their products.'"

    +5 Funny

    (or, better yet, +5 The Exact Opposite Is True :-P )

  • Go MS (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Henry V .009 (518000)
    Microsoft is being pretty good about this. They're just talking about the warrenty. Apple would be cursing the evil hacking pirate terrorists at this point.

    I can't wait until my XBox 360 gets repaired. The 3 red light circle started flashing the first time I plugged it into Xbox Live.
  • by JediLow (831100) * on Thursday May 18, 2006 @11:51PM (#15363117)
    "will not be eligible for technical support, and the user's warranty will be voided."

    Does that mean Microsoft is actually respecting the owner's right to own the console unlike they did with the Xbox? I'm fine with companies saying that its no longer covered by them if you tinker with it, but when they attempt to go beyond that line (ie: claiming DCMA violations, claiming the owner has no right to do what they want with their console) its gone way too far.

    • by Osty (16825) on Friday May 19, 2006 @12:19AM (#15363231)

      Does that mean Microsoft is actually respecting the owner's right to own the console unlike they did with the Xbox? I'm fine with companies saying that its no longer covered by them if you tinker with it, but when they attempt to go beyond that line (ie: claiming DCMA violations, claiming the owner has no right to do what they want with their console) its gone way too far.

      Can you point to even one case where Microsoft prosecuted an individual for modding his Xbox? Sure, they and Sony went after Lik-Sang for selling mod chips, but not the people who use them. They've attacked sellers who sold modified Xboxes with 100s of pirated games, but that was because of the pirated games, not the modchip. They patched holes in games and the dashboard that allowed for soft-modding, but that's their perogative and your fault for buying a re-release of a game or signing in to Xbox Live (and if it was IE or Windows, you'd be bitching if they didn't patch the holes ...). They banned modified Xboxes from Xbox Live, but they have the right to choose who uses their service and who doesn't (and once you're banned, you no longer have to pay for it). Read the TOS you agreed to when signing up. Microsoft has never stopped anybody from installing a mod chip and running Linux.

      Expect all of the same to happen now, too. In fact, I'm surprised that their only response was to remind you that you void your warranty with this hack. The current hack is only useful for playing pirated games. You can't use it for homebrew software or to run Linux, so there's no legitimate justification to shield it. When (not if) a real hack or mod chip appears, expect to get banned from Xbox Live for using a modified console (which will be much worse this time around, since Live is so much more important to the core experience of Xbox 360). Expect Microsoft to continue to go after people selling consoles with pirated games. And expect them to stay out of your business if all you want to do is run Linux and stay the hell off of Live.

      • > Can you point to even one case where Microsoft prosecuted an individual for modding his Xbox?

        Yes, in their internal court. Sentence: Lifetime ban from the Live service.
        • Yes, in their internal court. Sentence: Lifetime ban from the Live service.

          Nope. They ban the specific Xbox, perhaps the Live account, and maybe the credit card in extreme cases, but there's nothing stopping you from getting a non-modified Xbox, a new Live account, and using a different credit card if necessary. Anyway, getting banned from Live is nothing even close to legal prosecution.

        • That's a severe misuse of the term "prosecuted". Any business is free to refuse service to a particular customer.
        • Would that be the Live service where you agree, as a precondition to joining, that you won't try to hook up with a modified Xbox?

          • Would that be the Microsoft where you don't get punished for using modded xbox?
            Court persecution is not the only possible form of repression.

            I can watch for you to cross a street in illegal place and smash you with my car crippling you for life. I did so legally because you crossed the street in illegal place, I didn't even have to brake. But oh, I'm so saint, I didn't sue you!
            • Actually, I think you'll find that if you can prove that somebody purposefully didn't even try to avoid you, they're up for charges.

              But, yes, when you specifically say 'in exchange for allowing me to use your online service, I agree not to modify the physical hardware that I use,' and you then modify the physical hardware, you've got no beef when they discontinue the service on you.

              Don't blame the stove when you're told that it's hot, but you poke it anyway.

  • My guess is that we'll see MS issue an update over xbox live soon that stops this particular hack method working and no doubt they'll put the same update into the machines rolling off the production line. Oh, and don't forget that they can put updates into the games too...

    Of course, I might be wrong, but I really can't see them being too worried. If they decide to go this way then the likelyhood is (until new methods are found) that the only people this will work for are the owners with older versions of
  • by Myria (562655) on Friday May 19, 2006 @12:06AM (#15363184)
    The hack only allows piracy. As Microsoft said, the rest of the security system isn't broken at all.

    That's the sad part. It's very obvious that Microsoft cares much more about preventing Linux, Xbox Media Center and Game Shark much much much much more than they care about preventing piracy.

    The 360's security against unauthorized software undoubtedly cost millions of dollars to develop, and an unknown amount to manufacture. Meanwhile, the anti-piracy system of the 360 is almost identical to the Xbox's weak system. They barely changed anything, even though they knew it was already broken.

    By the way, the piracy hack for 360 was finished months ago. They probably spent the rest of that time designing their stuff to make it incredibly hard for Microsoft to detect it through Xbox Live.

    Expect Microsoft to very soon reflash the drive of anyone connecting to the Internet with a version with no back doors and that checks digital signatures of future flashes. And they'll do this instantly upon detecting a connected network cable without asking for your permission.

    Melissa
    • by Anonymous Coward
      What are you talking about? Of course Microsoft cares about piracy. They lose big $$$ on every console, their only hope of turning a profit is the money get from game licensing. If people are buying the games, Microsoft isn't getting their cut.
    • > The hack only allows piracy. As Microsoft said, the rest of the security system isn't broken at all.

      Luckily the hack also allows use of good old-fashioned backup/working copies. Less "omg my disk got scratched fuck help".
    • Protecting the integrity of the online security. On Xbox live you can be certain the person whacking you constantly isn't doing it with the aid of a patch to increase speed or damage, you just suck.

      If that goes, Xbox live's one REALLY good reason to exist does too.
      • Actually the security of the 360 just covers the XEX file. All the other files on the disk can be modified and never checked leaving a huge backdoor for game hackers / game moders. Whats left of the 360s security pretty much keeps people from just writeing custom software at this point. Shouldn't be too much longer before that too is cracked however. Though not likely it'll be as wide open as with the Xbox.
  • by Psykechan (255694) on Friday May 19, 2006 @12:16AM (#15363220)
    Microsoft's warranty for the original Xbox wasn't worth the digital paper it was printed on. I had to send mine back three times with a defective DVD drive before I finally gave up and stopped buying games for the damn thing. It would refuse to play any discs be it movies or games intermittantly. The braindead techs at Microsoft's Xbox repair center would run their diagnostic disc on it once and then send it back with the same defective drive.

    I only started using it again when I decided to mod it to run unsigned binaries like XBMC on it. An interesting side effect was that I was able to copy my until recently unusable games to the hard drive to actually get to play them without the system locking up with an "Unable to read disc" message all too often.

    I actually bought a few games after I modded the system due to the fact that I was now able to once again use the console for what it was intended to do.

    Honestly I'll wait for the hackers to perfect a similar method for the 360 before I'll pick one up. I have no interest in pirating games but I would like to ensure that I will be able to play games that I purchase without being frustrated again. /rant
    • by Osty (16825)

      I only started using it again when I decided to mod it to run unsigned binaries like XBMC on it. An interesting side effect was that I was able to copy my until recently unusable games to the hard drive to actually get to play them without the system locking up with an "Unable to read disc" message all too often.

      Of course, with a modified system you would no longer be able to play on Live. Whether that matters to you or not is a different issue.

      The problem with your DVD drive was unfortunately common,

  • by ClickOnThis (137803) on Friday May 19, 2006 @12:47AM (#15363338) Journal
    ...Billy-boy didn't take out a full-page ad in a gaming mag that screamed:

    YOU ARE ALL THIEVES!
  • *GASP!* (Score:3, Funny)

    by HunterZ (20035) on Friday May 19, 2006 @03:00AM (#15363742) Journal
    Oh noes!!!!1111eleven You mean that if someone mods their XBox360, they won't get a free power cord when their power supply starts a fire?

    I really can't think of any other reason that anyone capable of modding a console would want out of Microsoft's tech support.
  • buy an XBox at all? Most games are available for PC as well, and one way to actually stop manufacturers from limiting the options for users is to avoid closed systems like closed game consoles.
  • That was my first thought on seeing the headline. three hundred and sixty hackers, all being responded to by Microsoft. I wonder if they each got letters, or if Microsoft sent out three hundred and sixty lawyers.
  • "warranty" (Score:5, Informative)

    by Eivind (15695) <eivindorama@gmail.com> on Friday May 19, 2006 @06:35AM (#15364301) Homepage
    Especially for consumers in countries with non-silly consumer-protection laws this is irrelevant.

    In Scandinawia for example, there is a (by law) 2 years of indemnifications from defects in materials or craftmanships on all items marketed to consumers. And even 5 years on items meant to last significantly longer than 2 years.

    Now, this doesn't cover normal wear and tear. Nor does it cover consumer misuse (like say dropping the console from 6 feet), but neither does Microsofts "warranty".

    If you do mod your console, this affects your rigths under law not at all. The only exception being, offcourse, if you break the console by doing the mod. That is, offcourse, not Microsofts fault.

    But if you say mod your console by soldering in a new BIOS, and then half a year later the DVD-drive breaks, MS will have to replace it at their cost, unless they can show that it's likely the DVD-drive broke because of the soldering-in of the new BIOS.

    Americans buy expensive "extended warranties" to get what people in other countries have by default. (not that it stops companies from trying to push "extended warranties" here too, it's just even more pointless here.

    • Conversly, Microsoft does not have to maintain the modifications you made to the console during a warranty repair - you submit a modded console for repair of the DVD drive and the MS techs can remove the BIOS modification as well.
      • No they can't. What would be the rationale for this ?

        If I buy a new house, then repaint the bedroom green, then half a year later it turns out that one of the windows in the bedroom has a leak, the original builder will have to replace the window. But I don't see what rationaly you'd have for claiming that the builder could then, if he so choose, also repaint your bedroom to the original color.

        Modifying things you own is ALLOWED. Not only that -- but it's perfectly common, and when it comes to anything

        • A standard warranty includes the option, at manufacturers descretion, to repair or replace the unit - are they expect to apply any modification of yours to the new unit if they choose to replace it? No. You are not supplying the unit to Microsoft in the state that it was warrantied, and its acceptable for Microsoft to resolve any differences that your unit has to the standard templated design because if they do not, they cannot guarantee the unit is fit for the purpose it was sold (not bought - theres a s
          • A standard warranty includes the option, at manufacturers descretion, to repair or replace the unit.

            I'm explicitly saying that in many countries, the rigths you have by law are *more* extensive than those offered by volunty "warranties" from the manufacturer, which makes the "warranty" useless.

            For example, in Norway if a product breaks in its first year it's at the *consumers* discretion if you'll accept a repair, or demand a replacement. (There's an exception if replacement is unproportionally expensi

    • >In Scandinawia for example, there is a (by law) 2 years of indemnifications
      >from defects in materials or craftmanships on all items marketed to
      >consumers.

      It was actually increased to 3 years recently.
    • Americans buy expensive "extended warranties" to get what people in other countries have by default. (not that it stops companies from trying to push "extended warranties" here too, it's just even more pointless here.

      I assume you're talking about places like Best Buy and other electronics retailers, since as an American that's really the only common situation i've run into as far as paying extra for a better warranty - maybe I just don't hang around with the right people, but I don't know anyone who actuall
  • by techstar25 (556988) <techstar25.cfl@rr@com> on Friday May 19, 2006 @08:51AM (#15364716) Homepage Journal
    According to this page [xbox.com]. The warranty is only 90 days on the 360, which means that if you bought it on or around the launch day, in November, your warranty expired 3 months ago.

    To be unbiased, the PS2 also had a 90 day warranty [playstation.com] as well. The gamecube has a twelve month [nintendo.com] warranty.
    • Actually, I got a 360 on launch day, and was able to redeem my warranty last month when the whole thing up and died (3 red lights). It took about a week and a half, and they replaced my original console with a newer one. My guess is that the launch day 360's were a little more problematic than later versions, leading Microsoft to extend the original warranty.

      The call center was pretty noisy though.
  • by Zed2K (313037)
    If MS would just support the XBMC project instead of forcing people to use the MS one this wouldn't be a big deal to most people. I don't care about playing ripped games but I would love to have the XBMC running on a 360. It would do a much better job of upconversion and dvd playback.
  • ...like this one [amazon.com]? I thought they just made it so you could play copies of games.

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