Google Releases AJAX Framework 327
maquina writes "Google released a new AJAX framework based on Java. From Google's mouth: "Google Web Toolkit (GWT) is a Java software development framework that makes writing AJAX applications like Google Maps and Gmail easy for developers who don't speak browser quirks as a second language." This impressive framework promises to make AJAX available to the masses and is one more step towards Google becoming the de facto Internet platform provider."
Yeah, right.. (Score:5, Informative)
No, they haven't - at least not unless you have some other information you're not sharing.
From the Google site:
From the Yahoo link you provided:
So, how is this the same thing?
Re:Once again, Yahoo! is overlooked (Score:5, Informative)
The Y! framework still requires you to write HTML and Javascript - they just make implementing DHTML effects + AJAX less painful.
The Google framework removes the base need for HTML and Javascript authoring from the application development process entirely. Obviously you'll want to make the app look nice and need custom styling but in order to actually develop the functionality, zero HTML is needed.
As a consequence you can use the Yahoo stuff with any backend implementation language (PHP, Java, whatever) while the Google framework is limited to strictly Java. I don't mind though.
Re:The best feature of this toolkit (Score:5, Informative)
The license is restrictive.. mods prohibited (Score:5, Informative)
Except for distributions for internal business and/or personal use to your employees or contractors in compliance with these Terms and Conditions, you may not distribute Google Web Toolkit Development Tools or any services or software associated with or derived from them, or modify, copy, license, or create derivative works from Google Web Toolkit Development Tools, unless you obtain Google's written permission in advance. If you wish to do any of the above, please contact us by emailing apis@google.com. You may not use the Google Web Toolkit Development Tools to develop or distribute products that violate the law or legal rights of third parties.
No, I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth and why does this matter? Because I happen to prefer PHP for web development (just a personal preference). It would be nice to be able to move the JavaScript components off from the Java framework into a PHP based framework. Well, apparantly you can't do that without special permission.
BTW, the Yahoo UI Library [yahoo.com] is BSD licensed.
Re:Once again, Yahoo! is overlooked (Score:5, Informative)
To be fair, Yahoo's is just a collection of controls and widgets to be included in a project indvidually - which has been offered by many other sites for quite a while now - while Google's promises to be a framework that takes the headache out of front-end AJAX development. Of course, in my experience "automatically generates code" and "takes the headache out of" are eventually incompatible down the line, but what do I know.
I haven't played with either yet, but they sound like two different beasts to me. The most interesting part of this to me would be to see how Google writes their web code.
Re:The best feature of this toolkit (Score:5, Informative)
Er, nope. Hard as it is to believe, Microsoft were there first with the awesome Outlook Web Access which mimics Outlook, on a web page really, really well. This used their XMLHTTP ActiveX object which is also used extensively in Windows Update.
The rest happened from there really. Google is probably the best known current implementer of AJAX, but good as they are I certainly wouldn't say they launched it... and I certainly wish world + dog would stop releasing AJAX frameworks!
Not included and YUI comparisons... (Score:5, Informative)
I agree with someone else that the Yahoo UI (yui) toolkit seems to get ignored a bit, but I think this plays to a different crowd.
1) This is a java-based thing only it seems. People writing
2) The YUI stuff was more javascript oriented, and, from my experience, difficult to use in some settings. I had a hard time getting the slider stuff to work as needed based solely on their code and one example page, for example. Perhaps that makes me not as l33t as some others who can debug others' javascript in their sleep - I dunno. I do know that if Google makes this easy for people to adopt, it'll take off. Partially because there's a lot of google love amongst early-adopters in the tech community, and partially because making things easy is just a good way to attract people.
3) With the YUI stuff, Yahoo was/is seeming to cater to the scripting crowd more (witness the native serialized PHP responses you can get back). If google is going after the "I write Java apps" crowd, they may be able to bring in a new set of people to web-app development who before now were not in the web space.
I interviewed one of the Yahoo engineers who worked on the YUI widgets release at my podcast - http://webdevradio.com [webdevradio.com] - you can get some more perspective on what Yahoo was/is doing and trying to achieve with that move.
Just some random thoughts...
Nope - OWA was closed. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:AJAX isn't really ready for .NET (Score:3, Informative)
Have you seen ICallbackEventHandler [asp.net] in ASP.NET 2 and MS's own ATLAS [asp.net] toolkit?
Re:Interesting... BrowserQuirks++ (Score:4, Informative)
The browser vendors consider this "a really good thing" because it offers "product differentiation" and "market segment focus". The cost in human lives is not an issue.
Re:Interesting... (Score:3, Informative)
http://virtuelvis.com/archives/2004/02/evilml [virtuelvis.com]
Re:Interesting... (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, it is. It just uses HTML syntax that virtually no browsers have implemented. This is what the HTML 4.01 specification [w3.org] has to say on the matter:
Re:The best feature of this toolkit (Score:5, Informative)
It's not "beta" like this half-baked "me-too" from google, and it's open-source.Also commercial support is available it you want to pay for it.
Re:AJAX isn't really ready for .NET (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The license is restrictive.. mods prohibited (Score:2, Informative)
You're misunderstanding, although the legalize associated with the term 'derivative work' when talking about a development environment is aterribly obtuse. This says nothing about the generated code or anything you make with the tools, this is talking about the tools themselves. They are saying you can't redistribute the development environment itself, edit the DE and call it your own, edit the DE and sell it to someone, etc.
Based on this paragraph alone (I haven't read the rest) you can cut and paste into your php just fine.
nobody
See previous posts about ATLAS (Score:3, Informative)
Atlas is the AJAX framework built by Microsoft that allows you to use
It is a much more proper predecessor to Google's release, compared with Yahoo!'s offering (which I believe MS also predated).
Re:The best feature of this toolkit (Score:3, Informative)
To be fair I think the progression to AJAX was an evolution of which the last breaking point was web service and the ability to easily (I use that term lightly) transmit simple objects across the wire. When MS built their web outlook they where passing raw XML back and forth across the wire, with all the nastiness that comes along with it. With the push towards web services, and the XmlHttpRequest laying in obscurity it was only natural that it someone would (re)figure out the coupling of these technologies to become AJAX for more info on who contributed what look here [wikipedia.org]
Funny...no one noticed this in the agreement... (Score:1, Informative)
And here I was all ready to take off my tinfoil hat.
Yet Another Initiative to fire all the webdevs (Score:3, Informative)
Beg to differ. JavaScript has just as much "modularity" as any other object-oriented language; methods like JSON [json.org] and libraries like Dojo [dojotoolkit.org], Prototype [conio.net], and the aforementioned Yahoo! Web Services APIs [yahoo.com] are proof.
Every few years there comes along Yet Another Initiative to fire all the webdevs. No disrepect to Google's engineers, who are clearly brilliant, but we've been there [microsoft.com] and done that [adobe.com]. For a good time, open up Firefox's DOM Inspector, crack into their Kitchen Sink demo [google.com], and boggle over the iframes and tables and embedded JavaScript, oh my!
back to the back button! (Score:3, Informative)
I haven't heard anyone comment about what I think is a great feature in this toolkit:
I know this is something you can hack together if you're writing your own hand-crafted js, but this will be a nice feature -- I haven't looked at the toolkit yet, but I wonder how easy to use this will be.
Have any of the other frameworks provided this mechanism?
Re:Google a Java shop? (Score:5, Informative)
Chris
echo framework anyone? (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds familiar. It's rather like the echo framework [nextapp.com]
The big differences I see are:
1) Google toolkit advantages:
- No load on the server to render the UI. All ui code runs on the browser, so this may help server scalability.
2) Echo advantages:
- Fully open source.
- Richer set of ui components (IMO - see the demo at http://demo.nextapp.com/Demo/app [nextapp.com] )
Re:java based on java? (Score:2, Informative)
Javascript not Java, so yes, you can have AJAX based on something else.
Re:java based on java? (Score:2, Informative)
so yes, you can have it based on something else. Java != Javascript
Re:Genius (Score:3, Informative)
I'm suprised no one, especially Sun, have tried it earlier.
They did (along with lots of other OSS toolkits - get googling) [sun.com]
Re:java based on java? (Score:2, Informative)
GWT works with all server technologies (Score:2, Informative)
Bret Taylor
Product Manager, Google Web Toolkit
Re:The license is restrictive.. mods prohibited (Score:5, Informative)
GWT is available for commercial, non-commercial, and enterprise use with almost no strings attached. Please review the complete terms for details:
http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/terms.html [google.com]
Bret Taylor
Product Manager, Google Web Toolkit
Re:The best feature of this toolkit (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The best feature of this toolkit (Score:1, Informative)
http://getahead.ltd.uk/dwr/ [getahead.ltd.uk]
Re:Another downside... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:echo framework anyone? (Score:2, Informative)
Also, GWT doesn't seem all that complete at all. Dojo is a pretty good place to look for AJAX componentsd as well. http://dojotoolkit.org/ [dojotoolkit.org]