What Can Mandriva Linux 2006 Mean for Home Users?

sitor writes "What can Mandriva Linux 2006 mean for home users? is an article giving an extensive explanation about the pro's and con's of using a linux distribution such as Mandriva Linux 2006. It was written with people in mind that are in doubt whether linux might be something for them or not. It aims to inform them in a neutral way, understandable to newbies. Next time you have someone asking you questions about Linux not knowing whether they should try, you can just direct them to this article."

Re:With all respect to Mandriva....

[Aladrin]

And if you need reasons to back that up, just read the 'What could be improved' section on the last page of that article. It talks about show-stopping bugs that are enabled by default if you download the wrong version. It also talks about some of the most common linux features (ability to write to FAT partitions) that are disabled and you have to compile from source to change it.

They claim they are just trying not to run afoul of USA law, but what they've really done is trash their own distribution. (At least for the intended users in the article.)

Re:Mandriva 2006 at home

[jozi]

[...]these are the kind of things that keep lots of people from using Linux on their home PCs, where things either "just work" or they are not worth fiddling in order to make them work

I am not very interested in playing around with computers or operating systems. I think the computer is a wonderful invention just as I think the car is a wonderful invention. I use a computer and I use a car but I am not really interested in how they work or why things doesn't work, I just want them to work, like you said. I have had a Linux installation once and most things kind of worked but there are still too many things that doesn't. I want the majority of applications and games that I can see and buy in the store to work on my computer, not a reason why they will not work. I want to be able to exchange documents with others without having to think about formats and why the document doesn't look the same when I send it to the majority of my friends/colleagues who uses Windows and MS Office.
I want my internet bank to work on my computer, just as I know it will under Windows and no, I do not want to switch to a different bank.
There are people who love computers and operating systems who will gladly work around all these problems by dual-booting, downloading some obscure instruction about how to make things work or by any other way they can figure out but I am not one of them.

The problem is that there are millions of people like me who are not really interested in computers and they will not switch until they know that things will work the same or better than it does with MS Windows.
The majority of people like me are not windows advocates, we just want things to work.

Mandrake

[NVP_Radical_Dreamer]

I used to use "Mandrake" back in the day when Wal*Mart sold it. I was about 15 at the time (23 now) and loved it other than the fact that I had a winmodem and it didnt work for me to connect to the internet. I toggled back and forth with it as each release came out thinking each new release was a step in the right direction.

Then someone showed me ubuntu and I havent looked back, it does everything I've always wanted from a distro right out of the box with no tweaking necessary, at least in my case. I may start a virtual machine and load mandriva just to see if it has improved on anything, but right now I am content with the latest ubuntu

I got a better idea

[N8F8]

http://www.phildev.net/linux/apt-quickref.html [phildev.net] Below is a quick reference to cover some of the most commonly needed apt uses.

Download and install package:
apt-get install package

Update apt's list of available packages:
apt-get update

Upgrade all installed packages with upgrades available:
apt-get upgrade

Upgrade to new distro, or in general upgrade anything available for update including core system packages:
apt-get dist-upgrade

Uninstall package:
apt-get remove package

Uninstall package, and its config files, and don't leave it in the database as 'uninstalled':
apt-get --purge remove package

Search for a package like pattern:
apt-cache search pattern

Get information on installed package:
dpkg -s package

Find which installed package file belongs to:
dpkg -S inetd.conf

List which files are in package:
apt-file list package

Find out what packages provide file:
apt-file search file

Run a command (such as ./configure or make) and have all necessary packages installed as needed:
auto-apt run command

Unless specified, the package in reference doesn't have to be already installed for these to work... but the database needs to be updated. You can update the appropriate database via:
apt-get update
or
auto-apt update
or
apt-file update

Re: What Can Grammar Lessons Mean for /. Users?

[remembertomorrow]

In case you missed the first part of the article, he mentioned that he was translating it from Dutch (which is a scary language as it is), and that there would probably be grammatical/contextual errors.

Overall, it seems he did a good job though.

Re:With all respect to Mandriva....

[Proud like a god]

"It also talks about some of the most common linux features (ability to write to FAT partitions) that are disabled and you have to compile from source to change it."

FUD.

Where does it say you have to recompile anything to write to FAT? Anywhere near the bit that says "TIP: You can change this rather easy in the MCC in the partition management module. You go into expert mode (watch it!) and select umask=0."?

Re:With all respect to Mandriva....

[Jaqui]

"It also talks about some of the most common linux features (ability to write to FAT partitions) that are disabled and you have to compile from source to change it."

funny, editing a configuration file is compiling from source? since when?
I thought it was using a text editor to alter the contents of a file..like opening a word .doc file in ms word and changing the contents.

actually, it's easier than that, change the default security setting to the next lower level and the access is granted..this can be done during the INSTALL.

Re:Mandriva 2006 at home

[opkool]

Yes it does.

It is called urpmi [mandriva.com].

For Debian users:

urpmi is apt
rpm is dkpg
rpmdrake is synaptic

Urpmi comes both in command-line [utexas.edu] and GUI front-end [google.com]. Urpmi also comes with a "WindowsUpdate-like" tool called MandrivaUpdate [mandrakehelp.com].

There is even an online urpmi configurator tool [zarb.org], where you can even select the program sources "forbidden" in the USA, as they contain pre-packaged programs and modules that will allow you to watch DVDs, have 3D acceleration with ATI and nVidia cards, and a whole bunch of programs that its legality is doubtful in USA, as well as non-free programs.

Peace!

Re:With all respect to Mandriva....

[Proud like a god]

As stated below, it's a feature of the selected security level. Access to non-linux filesystems is restricted to root in Standard security mode (there's 1 lower level and 2 higher levels iirc).

The change in MCC isn't even a text edit, there's a check box with the label umask=0 and a description "Give write access to ordinary users". It doesn't get easier than that.

Re:With all respect to Mandriva....

[Proud like a god]

Make that Write access to non-linux filesystems is restricted...

Re:With all respect to Mandriva....

[CastrTroy]

I think it's more of a security thing rather than a patent thing. This happens in Mandriva when you set your security level too high (although it warns you). Basically since there is no permission system in FAT, it's very insecure from a linux point of view to have a directory that's readable,writeable, and executable by everyone. That's why writing is disabled.

I have to comment on this..

[god4twenty]

I'm not a big poster but read slashdot daily. I had to post about my weekend with ubuntu... Let me first start by saying that I am a linux newbie. I'm a windows admin beginning to dable with ubuntu. I've been comfortable using Ubuntu as the default on my home laptop for about a month now. Over the weekend I decided to get the wireless card working, I had tried breifly before without success and decided to give it a real go. To make a long story short...I've read every how-to/wiki/forum on how to get wireless cards working and 2 days later I still don't have wireless. The point: With windows I would plug it in, it would ask me for the drivers and I would point to the correct folder. On Ubuntu I have spent 2 days at a command prompt typing all sorts of stuff and it still doesn't work. Linux has a way to go before it is ready for the average joe user.

Re:I have to comment on this..

[s31523]

I would agree that Wi-Fi on Linux has some issues, but as I mentioned in a previous post, the latest Network Manager [gnome.org] should help out.

My Wireless experience with Ubuntu was a bit challenging, but only because of WPA. The hardware support is there for Intel PRO Wireless, and some others, but it is spotty. The new Network Manager should help with this as well (I'll let you know, I am installing tonight). As for any other Wireless hot-spot that is open, my Linux machine connects right away.

I would equate the state of Linux right now to the days of Windows 95; that is, most stuff worked OK from the GUI, but for many others you had to drop to DOS and edit config.sys or autoexec.bat, or configure BIOS with addresses and interrupts or manually set up drivers, etc. I am betting that in the next 5 years Linux Desktop Environments rival that of Windows. Just check out Enlightenment [enlightenment.org]... This looks a lot like Vista and or MAC OS 10..

Re:I got a better idea

[testerus]

The above post is offtopic. Madriva is using urpmi and rpm, not apt and dpkg.

Download and install package:
urpmi package
Update urpmi's list of available packages:
urpmi.update -a

Upgrade all installed packages with upgrades available:
urpmi --auto-select --update

Upgrade to new distro, or in general upgrade anything available for update including core system packages:
urpmi --auto-select

Uninstall package:
urpme package

Search for a package like pattern:
urpmq pattern

Get information on installed package:
rpm -qi package

Find which installed package file belongs to:
rpm -qf /etc/xinetd.conf

List which files are in package:
urpmq -l package

Find out what packages provide file:
urpmf file

Re:Spare yourself from the headaches

[opkool]

Hi,

Considering the hoops that I had to go through to make Mandrake do multimedia AND DVDs, your friend might as well be as skilled as 'Mr. decss' Johansen to get video or music playback.

I am not as skilled as Mr decss Johansen. Nevertheless, I got multimedia AND DVD reporduction very easily.

One option, is to buy the boxed version, which comes with support for all the proprietary stuff. I don't know if you know, but "Mandriva Free" only includes free (as in Freedom) software by design. This option (boxed version) works great for people not that expert in Linux.

Another option is to do what I did:

I went to Easy URPMI website [zarb.org], selected the PLF repositories, configured follogwing the instructions on that page (copy&paste), launched the GUI install program, searched for "codecs" and all the other files that had "mp3", "ogg", "dvd" , etc in the name , installed them all, and presto!:

* multimedia works like a charm: mp3, ogg, avi, mpeg... (using amaroK and gmplayer), even web-embeded content.
* I view my legal (read, protected) DVDs easily, with gmplayer or kaffeine or...

It is very easy, really. Even I can do it :)

I used the info found in this link [easylinux.info]. I found this link at "Mandriva Linux" entry on Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]. All is explained very well.

Peace!

Re:With all respect to Mandriva....

[petermgreen]

the problem is theres no usable security data on any filesystem other than one thats designed to fit with your operating systems security model. So granting access to users is something that must be decided by the OS at mount time.

windows takes the approach of "fat volumes are wide open to all users (a pretty major security hole really)" linux takes the opposite approach of "you can't write a non-native filesystem unless root lets you".

Re:Mandriva 2006 at home

[drinkypoo]

you can use captive-ntfs on linux for free, though you are supposed to have a license to Windows if you want to use the ntfs.sys... however, it is very spiffy, it lets you read and write and it seems to be quite reliable.

Re:With all respect to Mandriva....

[corrie]

Well, the disks for Ubuntu are free. however, most distributions can be bought at either computer stores or online, so the same that applies to Mandrake, applies to Ubuntu: you get what you pay for.

Also, remember that you can download any distro from the net, so if you are willing to download a CD, then why don't you get some friends to each download a part of the DVD, and then you'll have the DVD in about the same time as the CD, depending on your number of friends?

Re:With all respect to Mandriva....

[Master of Transhuman]

Compile from source to write to FAT partitions?

Since fucking when?

I do that DAILY! ALL my Windows partitions are FAT32! I save images, Web pages...

What the fuck is this on about?

And I haven't seen one show-stopping bug in Mandriva 2006 (other than their braindead menu editor, which sucks.) The only one they mention in the article is is Kat, which I haven't tried yet.

Oh, I see what they're talking about now - they're bitching that the /etc/fstab is set up for read-only on vfat by default.

Oh, big fucking deal!

And you don't have to recompile from source to change that! That's bullshit! The article doesn't even say that - you just change the umask for the partition. I didn't bother with that, I just edited /etc/fstab directly (the average home user couldn't, so it's nice they mentioned the other way.)

The only place where it has a serious need to be changed is in setting up the repositories. That needs to be much more automated than it is. Having to go to a Web site, select repositories and then cut and paste a command line into a terminal to set them up is too much for a naive user, although anybody with ANY Web browser and command line experience could do it easily enough. After the repositories are set up, though, the Mandriva GUI package manager is WAY easier to use and more informative than the crap Fedora uses. The Fedora package management sucks rocks - bring back KPackage - that did the job. The only way to deal with packages in Fedora is either use yum from the command line or rpm straight. Using yum from the command line is not naive user friendly.

The people dumping on Mandriva are morons. This distro is perfect for someone switching from Windows. I haven't tried Ubuntu (or Kubuntu since I prefer KDE to GNOME) yet, so maybe it IS better. But dumping on Mandriva as not being suitable for home users is bullshit.