Microsoft Trumps Google, Yahoo! R&D Budgets 201
Rob writes to mention a Computer Business Review Online article on Microsoft's commitment to out-spend Google and Yahoo! on innovation in the coming year. From the article: "Microsoft Corp will spend over $1bn on R&D just in its MSN unit, for the fiscal year starting in July, chief executive Steve Ballmer told an audience of would-be advertising customers. The money, part of the surprise spending package that recently gave Microsoft's share price its biggest single-day drop in five years, comes as the company struggles to catch up to Yahoo! Inc and Google Inc in the search and online advertising market."
What about that other big $$$ project? (Score:5, Funny)
Nowadays everybody wanna talk [cbronline.com] like they got something to say
But nothin comes out [nickdenton.org] when they move they lips
Just a buncha gibberish [google.com]
And muthafuckas act like they forgot about Vista [google.com]
Re:What about that other big $$$ project? (Score:2)
Who can blame them? The Operating System is becoming less and less relevant as web apps take center stage as THE way to do corporate apps. So SORRY Microsoft that your world is crumbling around you!
Re:What about that other big $$$ project? (Score:2)
I wonder whose spending will be more effective.
ROI? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ROI? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you also notice, they are going to double spending from $500~ million on MSN to $1 Billion. I don't know many companies that believe they improve their performance just by doubling their budget. After you take into account just trying to rearrange the organization to accomodate that amount of growth can take several years.
This is just another organization that believes that if they throw enough money at a problem it will fix anything.
If you are a stockholder you are in for a wild ride for the next couple of years. Unlike a real rollcoaster, I would get sick from all the ups and downs!
Re:ROI? (Score:5, Funny)
Poster wrote:
Balmer believes if he throws enough chairs at a problem it will fix anything.
That's a lot of chairs ... anyone buying stock in office furniture supply companies?
Google's press release in response... (Score:3, Funny)
Googles press release in response...
"We are glad that Microsoft has made this commitment."
We at Google plan on spending less than 10% of what Microsoft does in the next year.
We also plan on more than doubling our revenue in the next year."
"Does Microsoft plan on doubling their revenue?"
Ob. Colbert adaptation (Score:3, Funny)
that's one hell of a press release ... could we say this?
(for those who didn't see the video - links here http://thankyoustephencolbert.org/ [thankyoust...olbert.org])
Re:ROI? (Score:2, Insightful)
Well maybe, just maybe, I can finally get a job at MS...
Ok, just kidding. I would not fit in there anyway. I have way too much experience. The interview would be kinda like the one I had with Amazon -- when I saw that the interview team was composed entirely of children, I knew I did not have a chance.
Wheres the money? (Score:2)
Wouldn't it seem more prudent to keep successful programs running while they find new programs to replace them?
Murphie's law on sex no.35 (Score:2)
Re:ROI? (Score:5, Insightful)
Right On, Interguy (Score:2)
Throwing money at a problem rarely actually fixes it. It's easier to increase a budget than to rethink your R&D priorities, come up with changes, and act on them. Spending more money typically just shows that you've acknowledged there's a problem and would like someone to think that you're committed to making it less of a problem.
Which, hey, could be the plan.
Re:ROI? (Score:2)
Seriously, though, people underestimate the power of F/OSS. I wonder how many commercial deployments in 3D imaging could get away with using blender if they had the people. Looking at its gallery, I'd see quite a few.
Re:ROI? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Last week Control data... announced the 6600 system. I understand that in the laboratory developing the system there were only 34 people including the janitor. Of these, 14 are engineers and 4 are programmers.. Contrasting this modest effort with our vast development activities, I fail to understand why we have lost our industry leadership position by letting someone else offer the world's most powerful computer." - Watson
"It seems like Mr. Watson has answered his own question." - Cray
It looks like that might happen again...
Re:ROI? (Score:2)
All I see coming from this is MS bringing on more people and throwing more money at marketing and FUD, none of which has no guarantee of producing any 'Innovation'.
Re:ROI? (Score:2)
It's really sad to see a formerly great company reduced to threatening to spend money as a competitive weapon. What ever happened to Microsoft's self-declared innovation superiority?
Re:ROI? (Score:2)
OK, I was being kind. It's Friday, and I dislike kicking people when they are down.
Re:ROI? (Score:2)
If you just hire a small army of people working for five or low six figure salaries there is almost no assurance you will get anything innovative out of them at all. No one has an incentive to come up with something amazing and just turn it over to Gates and Balmer, to
Re:ROI? (Score:2)
Return on WHOSE investment? (Score:2)
They've got a lot of money, sure, but it's OUR money,
Input/Output (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:They just don't get it (Score:5, Informative)
This is demonstrably false. To test it, I entered "linux" into search.msn.com and into google.com.
MSN's first page of results: linux.org, linux.com, kernel.org, Wikipedia's Linux article, Gentoo, IBM's Linux portal, Debian, Red Hat.
Google's first page of results: linux.org, Debian, linux.org.uk, kernel.org, Ubuntu, Mandrake, linux.com, Gentoo, Red Hat, Linux Format.
Pretty similar stuff. The fun is in the sponsored links.
MSN's sponsored link at the very top of the search results: Linux webhosting from webhosting.net.
Google's sponsored link at the very top of the search results: www.microsoft.com/getthefacts.
Re:They just don't get it (Score:3, Interesting)
Pretty similar stuff. The fun is in the sponsored links.
MSN's sponsored link at the very top of the search results: Linux webhosting from webhosting.net. Google's sponsored link at the very top of the search results: www.microsoft.com/getthefacts.
They may be less humerous, but the sponsored results on the side are far more significant: Google has IBM, Loyola Computer Sciences, Ecora, linuxcertified, and other listings that are directly related to the search querry. MSN has shopping.msn, dealtime,
1bn dollar on search-based advertising? (Score:5, Insightful)
As long as google's search engine is better, everyone will search there. On the other hand google's search engine is still far from flawless, so msn could do a nice job if they improved on that. When people will have an actual reason to use MSN search, advertizers will have a reason to get their ads there.
Re:1bn dollar on search-based advertising? (Score:4, Insightful)
Nonsense. Given the assumption that stupid people are more susceptible to ads, adverisers should pay a premium to advertise on bad search engines.
Re:1bn dollar on search-based advertising? (Score:2)
Just like most people use windows because it is better?
Quality, not quantity.
Outspend... on innovation... (Score:5, Funny)
Rushes to set up a company "CS Innovation Ltd". A mere snip at $20 million.
Re:Outspend... on innovation... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Outspend... on innovation... (Score:2, Funny)
I wish I was at MS... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I wish I was at MS... (Score:2)
As we all know (Score:2)
More innnovation is a direct result of spending more money on it.
Or, maybe that's just Microsoft 'innovation'. They certainly often seem to have a curious definition for that word.
Re:As we all know (Score:2)
I agree with your irony.
"Innovation has nothing to do with how many R&D dollars you have. When Apple came up with the Mac, IBM was spending at least 100 times more on R&D. It's not about money. It's about the people you have, how you're led, and how much you get it." - Steve Jobs
Sadly.... (Score:2, Insightful)
from the (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:from the (Score:2)
Wake me up when they dedicate 20% of all their employees time to R&D.
Feel free to shoot me when Microsoft innovates something.
Re:from the (Score:5, Funny)
Yes.
Rough Translation (Score:2, Insightful)
Big difference between "R" and "D" (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Big difference between "R" and "D" (Score:2)
That's probably where this [microsoft.com] comes in.
Re:Big difference between "R" and "D" (Score:2)
And why does none of it actually show up in any products?
Sorry if I'm being a bit critical, but when I think of other big companies doing serious research, as a relative layman I can actually see the effects of this research years later in real products. For instance, it seems like IBM's research labs are constantly coming out with amazing research. A fair amount of that has actually turned into real products (and some probably is still in the pipeline). Fo
Re:Big difference between "R" and "D" (Score:2)
Re:Big difference between "R" and "D" (Score:2)
If you knew what you were talking about, you'd actually name some. But of course, you have none to list, other than Xbox. Personally, I don't see how Xbox is all that different from PS2, and according to press and fans it certainly isn't head-and-shoulders above it, so again, I don't see much return from their research investment.
That's my area, so I can vouch for it; I'm sure they are equally
Meaningless (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, I've never considered it "innovation" when the primary business model is to copy other products' features and add a few pretty icons and obvious additions. I have yet to see a NEW idea come from Microsoft. I see a pattern of copying existing ideas, and integrating them closely with the OS so people ignore the original product since a good-enough version comes "free" with the OS.
Re:Meaningless (Score:3, Insightful)
This sentiment drives me crazy. Frankly it has been my experience that almost nothing is a new idea! It is remarkable how often somebody comes forward to claim credit for some "innovation" after a company like Microsoft (or Apple, or Sun, or HP, or Google
Re:Meaningless (Score:2)
I have to say, you very nicely added support to my statement that "innovation" is not something to necessarily be honored. Rather
Re:Meaningless (Score:2)
Here's something for you to ponder. You are an engineer in a room "brainstorming" with marketing over new product ideas. Suddenly the marketin
Common misconception (Score:4, Insightful)
If fact, what you need is to identify the creative (and unique) individuals and it does not matter how many people you have hired unless there is process in place in the company that identifies those individuals and gives them the lead.
Re:Common misconception (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not even that. Ideas are easy for creative people. It's implementing creative ideas that is hard.
It bet there are already lots of good ideas within Microsoft, trapped under the fat arses of the middle management.
Re:Common misconception (Score:2)
But few people get world-changing ideas. To think up something like Google or Bittorrent is the challenge; doing it is just a lot of fun & hard-work. Granted it sometimes pays off, it sometimes doesnt. However, without the idea carrying weight, all you get is a polished turd. That's how I see it anyway.
Seems Dvorak was right ? (Score:2)
Re:Seems Dvorak was right ? (Score:2)
Dear Microsoft stockholders, (Score:2, Funny)
You cannot buy "innovation".
Love,
Reality
Re:Dear Microsoft stockholders, (Score:2)
IANAPDM but even I know that they didnt get that cashflow from innovation, they got it from luck and marketing and licensing of MS-DOS on *every* IBM PC that went out the door for years that got them the dominant market position no matter the quality of their product.
Re:Dear Microsoft stockholders, (Score:2)
Not to say that MS is a very innovative company. My comment really isn't a statement about MS as much as it is R&D. To think that "You can't buy innovation" is foolish in the face of the fact that ANY company that innovates has an R&D budget in some form. The FACT that "MSFT spends more on R&D than google and yahoo" is a headline is proof that both of these large "innovative" companies do indeed pour cash into the
Re:Dear Microsoft stockholders, (Score:2)
I'm not sure that innovation and development are the same thing. They have developed and evolved their software for years its true, but innovation is more than that.
Re:Dear Microsoft stockholders, (Score:2)
Re:Dear Microsoft stockholders, (Score:2)
I'm sure Microsoft have done some innovating over the years (I mean, with that much money spent, you would be hard pressed not to create something by accident even) but I dont think their primary goal has ever been to do that.
My point of course (back up there somewhere) was merely
Yes, the cat got my tongue... (Score:5, Funny)
That is an impressive figure to be sure but I still think it isn't enough to acheve world domination, why MS can't even develop a sealth fighter for that price let alone a whole fleet of Borg cubes fully armed, warp capable and sporting a giant Windows logo on each side.
Like this? (Score:2)
Mythical man money? (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, nine women can't have a baby in one month. Maybe, just maybe, the reason why Google is out innovating them is they either have smarter people, better development practices, or don't have a bunch of historical baggage of other products they need to slavishly support.
I guess from Microsoft's perspective, it's good to spend money on R&D. Hopefully they'll make better products, and at a minimum they'll probably get to write it off on their taxes.
In the long run though, I wonder if Google won't simply out-do them with fresh thinking, new ways of doing things, and a completely different business model than Microsoft. This may not simply be a matter of keep throwing vast amounts of money at the problem until it becomes easier.
This may require some more fundamental changes.
Re:Mythical man money? (Score:2)
Re:Mythical man money? (Score:2)
R&D? Is that 'buying other companies'? (Score:2)
Microsoft seems to spend most of its time buying other companies these days. Is this classified as R&D?
Typical... (Score:2, Insightful)
Harness the Power (Score:2)
Instead of coming up with the next search engine, create something entirely new to computing. You have the money, power and capability to do anything you want, let's see some real computing innovation. Start with new softw
Re:Harness the Power (Score:2)
Already done by some bastard from Finland, I'm told.
New Cool & Useful Technology/Hardware to digitize your home, incorporate all your digital gadgets, gaming, GPS, Remote access, etc.
Microsoft keep trying for this, hence Media Center. But it seems most people don't really WANT all their gadgets incorporated. Jack of all trades and master of none, and all that. Better to have one device to record TV, another to browse the net, another to play mus
Re:Harness the Power (Score:2)
you meant already Finnish'd
Re:Harness the Power (Score:2)
Is origami out and do people want to use it other than technical curiosity?
Oh, wait. It's a tablet PC, just smaller. I get it. Does it run Linux?
Money as a constraint (Score:3, Interesting)
Happy Cinco de Mayo! [blenderking.com]
Re:Money as a constraint (Score:3, Insightful)
Outspend? (Score:5, Insightful)
They'll do even better when they start out-thinking their competitors.
They've been outspending Apache for years in the webserver market. What are their respective market shares again?
Outspending guarantees nothing (Score:2)
Yahoo! is officially "old news" as far as I'm concerned. I can't imagine what could make them new again. Google, at least for now, has more 'youth' on its side and whatever
size! (Score:2, Funny)
Can't Resist... (Score:2)
"Mr Gates, tear down that firewall"!
I wonder if there will be a coup attempt @ microsoft? (or google for that matter).
Carrying the metaphor to another extreme, I wonder if a heirarchical organization could spring up inside Google - the way modern Christianity overpowered the more decentralized Gnostic-style versions?
Microsoft spends a lot of money. (Score:2)
R&D won't pull Ballmer's head out of his ass (Score:2)
What *does* an R&D budget contain? (Score:2)
" Oh, and I suppose that legal costs are covered within an R&D budget also? How much of this is actually going to be used for development, as opposed to turf defending legal action by measures such as:
Microsoft becomes (the old) IBM (Score:2)
Remember when IBM stumbled badly and it took everyone by surprise? I wonder when the crash of Microsoft will be heard. My guess is we've still got about five years to go...
Money isn't everything: developers x 3, remember? (Score:2)
So what if Microsoft has tons of cash? Money doesn't magically transform into innovation -- it takes brilliant people to do that. Micr
I don't know about you... (Score:2)
Hmmmm (Score:2)
Google comes out on top because they have a good product and reputation everyone wants.
Who really won here, the guy who had money to burn for nothing or the guy providing valuable resources and tools.
Its just common sense to me.
Microsoft R&D == Roach Motel (Score:5, Interesting)
I've always wondered what happens to these formerly incredibly productive people. Are they stuck in bureaucratic hell? Are they working on stuff so far into the theoretical that products are years off? Or is it the ultimate cushy job and they just get fat drinking free snapple behind their closed door?
It's true they do surface from time-to-time (like Anders Hejlberg) so you know they are working on something, but this happens so rarely you have to wonder what the hell is going on in there. Why do they get such a lousy return from their huge R&D budget?
-ec
Re:Microsoft R&D == Roach Motel (Score:2)
Anders came from Borland, not Microsoft R&D.
http://www.happyarts.de/delphi/faq/goodbye_.htm [happyarts.de]
Enjoy,
Re:Microsoft R&D == Roach Motel (Score:2)
-ec
Re:Microsoft R&D == Roach Motel (Score:2)
SIGGRAPH for example (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Lousy Return? Yes. (Score:3, Funny)
My personal theory about the poor return on their investment is that they hire a lot of people who are or would normally be university professors. But Microsoft hires the
More to the point.... (Score:2)
MS Yahoo Merger (Score:2)
Won't solve the prob (Score:2)
Priorities, baby! How will this effect the perks? (Score:2)
Aside from the normal prattle... (Score:3, Insightful)
MS built an empire on some core products. They have rested on those laurels for a while now. They built pretty houses, donated to charity, even threw the occasional chair. Maybe this is them waking up and saying "well what do we want to do now? Hey! Let's actually get back into the serious software business!"
What they have initially to lay out is more capital then most second world nations. You can claim all you want that MS can't buy innovation with money, that they have to find people that "love" their work and all those are at Google or whatever. But I would hold that with deep enough pockets they can start going around to people with big but hard to quantify ideas and say "here's a bucket of money if you think you can make your idea happen".
They might be gearing up to take the Yahoo/Google approach to software and services development and throw several things at the proverbial wall to see what sticks.
As much as the mantra of
Another Marketing Move (Score:2)
It might do some good in marketing, where you can just go out an buy more time slots with the money, but R&D requires that you have people with ideas to develop and the skill to capitalize on the ideas. Many of those have walked away from MS long tim
Because $ == innovation, right? (Score:2)
If money was the sovereign cure for lackluster product, MS would have produced the world's most amazing software instead of the steaming pile of code that is MS Office, Windows, etc.
Waste (Score:2)
Their homepage [microsoft.com] is slow and not very expressive. There's a lot of blabla that reads like your average university summary, and then there's these huuuugly innovative ideas, like in the hardware section:
We're working on devices which will allow you to use novel forms of input, such as a gesture, a wink, a voice command, or a pen.
Did someone forgot to update the page after, say, 1980 or so?
We're also explo
How many units of innovation do you want? (Score:2)
Does anybody else cringe when they hear intangibles commodotized like this? You can innovate for free. (and some people are) Or you can do like google and poach the VCs.
Does Google even need to spend half... (Score:2)
Why Microsoft cares (Score:2)