Netflix vs. Blockbuster Revisited 349
Thomas Hawk writes "Exactly one year ago at thomashawk.com Davis Freeberg debated Wall Street analyst Michael Pachter regarding the future of the online DVD rental world. Freeberg maintained that Netflix was the clear and obvious choice for a winner while Pachter predicted that in the next 12 months Netflix would significantly underperform Blockbuster. Now another look one year later at the competitive landscape in the DVD market. Pachter is nice enough to continue the conversation and even admits in hindsight that he made a mistake regarding his prediction on Netflix vs. Blockbuster for the year past -- but Pachter still maintains that Blockbuster has the upper hand over Netflix in the coming year ahead. Freeberg, of course, thinks he's wrong once again and that Netflix will continue to dominate as the leader of this market. "
I want what comes next (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll keep subscribing for now, but I may just be one more watching-mood-drought away from cancellation. What would really keep me as a customer is someone who could offer high quality and fast downloads for a buck or two. Then I could buy on a whim and get exactly what I'm in the mood for instead of picking from among the three Netflix envelopes on the kitchen table that just happened to be fairly close to the top of my queue but aren't *precisely* what I want tonite.
Re:I want what comes next (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you're doing it wrong. "Netflixers" I know do it like this -- get the DVD in the mail, copy it to your PC with something like DVDShrink, send the DVD back right away so you get the next item in your queue sooner.
Then later when you feel like watching the movie, burn it to a DVD+/-RW, watch it, then delete the file off your computer.
This may be walking the tightrope of "fair usage", but that's the reality of how people I know are using this sort of service.
boxlight
Re:I want what comes next (Score:2)
Besides, if you do the mass rip/burn thing, eventually Netflix starts to throttle your queue since it is unprofitable for them to process more than ~20 movies a month for a single account.
I don't believe the throttle rumor (Score:2)
I watch a LOT of movies. In those 3 years, I have only kept a move for more than 2 days maybe
Re:I don't believe the throttle rumor (Score:3, Insightful)
BS. I just read their terms of service. It says nothing of the sort. It does say that it prioritizes lower volume customers, but that is something entirely different than "throttling".
"1. They lied about what day they received a DVD back from me (adding 1-2 days to the time it takes for the DVD to show up as being returned on their site)"
"3. They lied about what day they shipped a DVD back to me (for example, s
Re:I want what comes next (Score:2)
the next progression (Score:3, Interesting)
It looks good, I save time burning discs, and I don't have any more inexplicably ruined dvd-rw blanks. I don't know why it was happening, but I had about a 5% failure rate with each reuse.
Now I can show .avi or whatever on my tv without the SLOW process of converting to dvd compliant format, or watch visualizations with music, or change channels to see i
Re:the next progression (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:the next progression (Score:2)
My friend wired his house for audio, ethernet, and coax a few years ago. It took him several weekends and thousands of dollars. (he installed a wiring panel with patch bay and everything) I'm glad I waited!
Your friend made a mistake. (Score:2)
Re:I want what comes next (Score:5, Interesting)
1) If I hear about a movie I might want to see, or if somebody recommends something I haven't seen, I put the movie in the queue. No fuss trying to remember anything.
2) We don't have cable, so this is the majority of our entertainment budget.
3) With no late fees, we have total control of when we want to watch something.
4) Practically endless choices. I've never gone looking for a movie that I couldn't find.
If you're going to rip the DVDs as soon as they arrive, why not just download them from torrents? It's just a legal (or illegal, rather), and you don't have to worry about shelling out that MASSIVE $19.95 every month and making sure that you somehow game the system so your Netflix rentals work out to be $0.25/movie like a penniless schlub.
Re:I want what comes next (Score:3, Insightful)
It's more a licensing issue than fair use. I'm sure you expressly agreed to not do something along the lines of copying it when you rented it, so it doesn't matter if there is fair use, you've breached your contract with them.
Re:I want what comes next (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I want what comes next (Score:3, Informative)
Most of mine are from the minneapolis, but if minneapolis doesn't have the movie I want, it comes from san jose or someplace like that.
And they tend to ship back from where they came.
So i print up address labels to the minneapolis center, so all my movies get back in 1 day.
Re:I want what comes next (Score:3, Interesting)
I suspect you think I'll believe the USPS would allow them to move and keep their ZIP code in the same way you'll expect me to believe that the postal service suddenly got very inefficient at delivering mail across town in that same time period.
Oddly enough, my mortgage payments get across town
Re:I want what comes next (Score:3, Interesting)
Often we'll return 3 movies at the same time, and will receive 3 new movies in the mail 2 days later, all at the same time. We live in Berkeley, CA and are only a few hours from the primary distribution centers or the NetFlix headquarters.
Re:I want what comes next (Score:2)
But I've found a solution.
TV.
Most of my rentals from Netflix are TV shows (often that don't air). I tend to get one movie for every three TV discs I rent. By the time that movie disc gets to my house, I'm in a movie mood (because I haven't seen one) or I can just hold it until I am. I've watched Neon Genesis Evangelion this way (this was years ago before it was aired on Cartoon Network), Red Dwarf, Dual: Parallel Universe Saga, Magic
Re:I want what comes next (Score:2)
Re:I want what comes next (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem I'm having is that I'm unprofitable for Netflix, so rather than just canning me outright, they are doing their best to slow me down. After the first couple months of 8 movies per month, many of my returns started taking 2 days to get back to them (the return center is very local, so they have to be sitting on it for a day). That slows my down to under 2 per week. I kept that rate up for a couple more months, and occasionally got 2 a week by mailing back the same day I received it (or when my return actually got processed next day). Now the latest trick is 3 of the last 4 movies have been being shipped from across the country. Thats never happened before, and these aren't old/rare movies, nor are they movies in high demand. They are couple of year old movies that had their run. I never had any problems before with movies being shipped across the country, so it seems more than coincidence.
Anyway, those 2 acts have my rental rate just over 1 per week. That doesn't make it very worthwhile to use Netflix. On top of that, they've been shoving me to the back of the queue for new movies. I added King Kong to my queue the week before it was released. The morning of release, I checked my queue and it said short wait. Later that day it changed to long wait. The next morning it was now a VERY long wait. It's been 4 or 5 weeks now since King King came out, and I'm still at a long wait.
Anyway, my Netflix subscription is just about renew, so I'm planning on cancelling and switching to blockbuster. Well see how they are, but the one real advantage I see there is that they give you coupons for 2 free store rentals per month. That means even if they do the same sort of profiling of high use customers, I can still run out and get the movie from the local Blockbuster in a timely manner.
Re:I want what comes next (Score:2)
Re:I want what comes next (Score:2)
Re:I want what comes next (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I want what comes next (Score:2)
But then I would have to go to the store, find out that they don't have what I originally wanted, pick something else from the paltry selection, wait in the ridiculously long line, and then return the thing a few days later.
$17 a month for convenience is worth it. I always hav
Re:I want what comes next (Score:3, Interesting)
Only disadvantage is that I can't watch the most current stuff, but I don't care. There's enough older stuff out on DVD to keep me occupied for years.
Re:So format-shift it......... (Score:2)
Meh. I never bother hooking the computer to the television; I prefer the TV tuner in the computer. (Of course, my most current working system right now is a dual Celeron 500, so...)
It's to be expected really (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Hmm (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:4, Informative)
Ummm, infinite rentals, no due dates, a massive library, and you can rent from your very own chair without ever leaving your house. (Hint: I'm not talking about the brick and mortar Blockbuster.)
MOD PARENT UP (Score:5, Informative)
Re:MOD PARENT UP (Score:2, Informative)
Re:MOD PARENT UP (Score:2)
Of course, if only Blockbuster had a subscription movies+games option, I'd be all over dumping netflix&gamefly to have a single entertainment channel.
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2)
Well let's do the math. 11 rentals at the "3 DVDs out at a time" plan works out to be about $0.61 per rental.
Still seems like a great deal to me. That's even ignoring any DVDs you get after the throttling kicks in.
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2)
Wait, $17.99 (3-at-a-time plan)/11 = $0.61? How about $1.64? Still, not a bad deal, until you realize you can't get new releases for the first two months because you're sent to the back of the line, or it takes three to four days (it often takes 5-7 days for me) to get the next title on your list.
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2)
Yeah $1.64 is more accurate. It pays to actually look at my terminal window while using bc.
I don't really use Netflix for new movies, as most new movies I either saw in the theater and want to own or I didn't see it in the theater because I'm in no hurry to. I absolutely love Netflix for TV shows, as there is no way I'm going to shell out $50+ per season for some of the shows out there but I wouldn't mind watching them again.
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2)
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2)
And this is why I really like Blockbuster online. In those cases where I can't get a new release from the online store, I have two free rentals at the local Blockbuster per month, and they are pretty good at having sufficient stock of the new releases. I usually rent the older movies online, and pick up the new releases at the store. I haven't had any issues yet where
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2, Insightful)
The last two months I've rented 11 and 12 movies respectively with Netflix. Heck, even if I dropped below 5 for some reason I'd probably keep the service, since I used to really hate going to my local video rental stores (most have stopped carrying anything but new releases and a token selection from other categories, and the lines are alw
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2)
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2, Funny)
Edited movies, no "adult content", and masssive contibutions to right-wing organizations.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2)
I also never complained about getting nailed by the late policy before this, either... You rent the damn movie, they tell you when it's due back, you return by that time. If you don't, you get a penalty. It's only fair, seeing as how you were denying them from possibly renting it to someone else.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2)
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2)
Re:It's to be expected really (Score:2)
Yup, that's exactly who's getting throttled. Doesn't bother me any, but then I can afford to pay for what I want to watch. Even at only 1 rental per week per slot, it's still dirt cheap. Of course, I do Netflix instead of cable, so it looks very cheap indeed by comparison.
i wished they'd pay-as-you-go (Score:4, Insightful)
If they would introduce some kind of pay-as-you-go scheme, that would be ideal. I don't want to pay the monthly fee as in any given month I may only rent one movie -- or none at all.
boxlight
Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go (Score:5, Insightful)
They would make no money off of you. Business is a 2-way street you know. They get to make money and you get something in return.
I think the situation you're describing is more suited for the "on-demand" model of cable television.
Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go (Score:2)
How I look at it. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:How I look at it. (Score:2)
Netfix, OTOH, seems to go out of their way to satisfy customers.
Re:How I look at it. (Score:4, Interesting)
Had they simply been up-front about it, there would have been no issue. However, a queue of 40+ movies, all on "delayed availability", with nothing shipping to me, told me they didn't want my money anymore.
Re:How I look at it. (Score:2)
To say nothing of the fact that you get to pick them at the time that you want them, rather than Netflix picking for you out of your queue and factoring in frequent-viewer penalties.
Netflix is virtually the antithesis of the impulse buy, and it's all because they have to mail out physical DVD's from a limited inventory. Blockbuster has existing physical stores (admittedly not cheap, bu
Re:How I look at it. (Score:4, Informative)
All it took was BB screwing me on one late fee--got to the store around 11:55 or so, but had to stand outside waiting for the guy to finish his work on the door (apparently some punks had vandalized it the night before) before I could get in. Got in the store at a touch after 12 and got hit with a late fee because I was after the 12:00 time limit. The manager was insistant that I should have just gone earlier to drop it off too. Needless to say, that's the last time I've ever visited BB. I can't remember if I even paid that late fee.
Re:How I look at it. (Score:2)
If I could effectively download the movie, I'd use that in a flash. Netflix wouldn't even be a consideration. In fact, I'd actually support strong DRM for downloadable movies, proviso that it doesn't screw up my playback hardware or dictate how and when I watch a movie that I purchased outright. But of course I ask too much. I may as well be
Re:How I look at it. (Score:5, Interesting)
So, I don't think I'd find those in store rentals of much use. Sure, there may be a film that me and a bunch of friends might want to watch right this moment...and be willing to run out to the rental store to get it. But I'd wager all the copies of said film will be rented out. At least that last few times I went to Blockbuster that was always the case.
At least with Netflix I have a steady flow. I also get to watch a lot of TV shows I miss. I've got the 5 disc program and seldom do I not have something to watch. With 5 discs it's pretty good. Just make sure you mix you queue up so you always have something lighthearted, something action and something dramatic. Plus your series filler (currently ST:DS9 for me) *lol*
Re:How I look at it. (Score:4, Informative)
I found that to be a great deal as well. However, I also found that some months I really didn't feel like I needed any more movies than the ones that I got online (and that was when they only gave out 1 rental a month). I've since switched to Netflix because I didn't want to pay $17.99 for the 4 extra movies when I hardly need more than 2 at a time and don't necessarily need the in-store movies. I would guess that the vast majority of people are probably in the same boat.
I guess the way I see it, here is your decision:
Do you watch 3 or more movies a month?
Do you need to get a movie at any time on a whim as long as you're alright with driving to the movie store and paying a little extra?
Other considerations
I don't want either of them to "win" (Score:5, Insightful)
Because when video rental services compete, I win.
Three cheers for competition!
Re:I don't want either of them to "win" (Score:2)
What about Redbox? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What about Redbox? (Score:2)
Re:What about Redbox? (Score:2)
Blockbuster's New Releases (Score:4, Informative)
Until blockbuster can realize that they need to stop putting all their weight behind their stores, netflix will always be the superior choice.
Re:Blockbuster's New Releases (Score:2)
That is simply not true. BB shipped Chronicles of Narnia to me three days after it was released on DVD. And, BB also shipped Charlie and the Chocolate Factory to me nine days after it was released. (BTW, "Charlie" was a better movie than I expected. )You just have to know how to search for the new relases on BB. New releases are not placed on the main BB page after you log in. When you know there is a new release out the
Bogus claim or one unlucky renter (Score:2)
I've never had a 90 day waiting time for a new release DVD from either service. Overall, if a DVD set to be released on Tuesday is in my queue (at the top) and I get a DVD shipped out to me on Monday, it has been the new release (this goes for both rental services).
You either need to complain to BB about this if it really is true or
I once had NetFlix (Score:4, Insightful)
I was once a subscriber, but I dropped Netflix back when they went from $19.99 to $23.99/mo.
Re:I once had NetFlix (Score:2)
blockbuster in-store rental coupons (Score:4, Informative)
Re:blockbuster in-store rental coupons (Score:2)
I feel your pain! (Score:5, Funny)
Oh my GOD! The ultimate in inconvenience!
you visit the web page,
Great Satan's Firey Balls! That must require the use of at least three muscles to move the pointer and click the link! Does Blockbuster offer health insurance?
print it out, pick it up from the printer,
Jesus Tap Danching Christ On A Cracker! Those foul villans! They make you trek all the way to the printer? Do they subsidize the required team of Sherpas and ruggedized GPS navigation equipment?
then have to remember to bring the coupon when you go to the store.
Wow! What does Blockbuster think? That we have highly evolved brains with complex memory capabilities? Those fools! Thos bloody, viscious fools!
My Thoughts (Score:5, Insightful)
"Since the launch of Blockbuster's online dvd rental program in August 2004, they have added 1.3 million customers, but over the last 6 months alone, Netflix was able to add almost as many subscribers. Each customer that Netflix acquired represents pure growth for the company, but of Blockbuster's 1.3 million subscribers, how many of them represent former retail store customers? "
The last few times I've been in my local Blockbuster, they have been doing hard sells on their online service to every customer. They talk about how convenient it is, how much it will save you, blah blah blah.
I seriously doubt Blockbuster has gotten very many new customers at all to their online service. I think most of them were conversions from in-store customers.
Blockbuster and Netflix each have their own issues (Score:4, Interesting)
Then there's Netflix where I can't just go pick up any movie I want. I have to request it and have it shipped. And that only happens after they get back one of the earlier movies I rented from them. That's a minimum two day turnaround. And while it is nice that you can request Netflix movies from the comfort of your own home, the less scrupulous out there have discovered that you can download just about any movie you want in far less time than it would take Netflix to get it to your door. And on top of that, their "unlimited" rental model leaves a lot to be desired for those who don't rent very often. Their cheaper packages offer little enough that they're not a good deal.
My shipping history... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:My shipping history... (Score:3, Interesting)
I have Blockbuster Online in Southwestern Connecticut, and the distribution center is within the same city. In all but one case (out of about 30 movies so far) I've gotten the movie the next postal day after the day they ship it. I've never had Blockbuster take more than one day to acknowledge receipt of a movie I mailed back, and on several occasions t
Re:My shipping history... (Score:2)
Consider that a letter mailed across town took the same number of days for delivery as a letter mailed from London, U.K. That says something about our local inefficiency in our postal system. And I agree, everyone talks about throttling but I've not really experienced, except with a few hit movies. However, Netflix has stated openly that when it comes to hit movies. New members get first dibs. And I am fine with that. I understand that sometimes when
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Screw those guys.... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Screw those guys.... (Score:2)
Re:Screw those guys.... (Score:3, Funny)
Limited collections though! (Score:2)
Why I switched (Score:4, Informative)
Even if Blockbuster makes me wait a while for the newer movies then I can still get the one free in-store movie a week, as well as satisfy the impulse rentals that my wife and I want.
That Was A Nice Update (Score:2, Funny)
It's like watching a soap opera. I'll be sure to tune again another year from now to find out, yet again, that nothing has changed, except that one has fallen down an elevator shaft while experiencing menopause, and the other will have an illegimate child being held for ransom by their estranged spouse on an abondonded oil platform in the Atlantic Ocean.
Amazon Rentals (Score:3, Informative)
They have more than enough stock, and shipping centers. I think they can finally do online rentals right.
I went with Blockbuster (Score:2)
Turnaround time has been identical for me in Seattle. I pop the DVD in the mail one day, Netflix/Blockbuster got/gets them the ne
The Longterm Winner.... (Score:3, Insightful)
It doesn't have to be super fast (you can choose your download in the morning and have it ready tonight), it doesn't have to be unlimited (people will pay $2-4 like they currently do), and it doesn't have to be open (most people don't care about DRM). It just has to be mostly reliable, current blockbuster hits, and very very easy to use.
Whoever that is (Netflix, Hollywood, Blockbuster, Comcast, or NewCompanyYetToBeNamed) will most certainly reign while the others scramble to catch up.
Selection (Score:3, Interesting)
I fired Blockbuster (Score:2)
During the several months I was using them, I noted that it took them sometimes weeks to process returned movies, many movies would "disappear" in transit, the movies I received would be in the wrong sleeve, Disc 2 inside a Disc 1 sleeve, and did I mention that they took weeks at times to process the movies I would return?
Their service is not worth 17.99, 14.99, or even 12.99. At b
The problem with blockbuster (Score:2)
Experiment (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Let's See... (Score:2)
Re:Let's See... (Score:2)
Re:No Netflix stores around here. (Score:2)
And just because you use Netflix does not preclude doing a one-off rental at BB (or anywhere else) for something you have to have tonight.
Re:No Netflix stores around here. (Score:2)
Yes, except that if you have Blockbuster Online you get coupons for free in-store rentals (either 2 per month, valid for the whole month, or 1 per week, valid only for the week). Therefore, you can satisfy your spur-of-the-moment movie fix without paying anything extra.
Re:No Netflix stores around here. (Score:2)
My son still gets an ocassional movie or game from BB, but our library at home is now large enough to fill the bill for a good instant selection.
On average, I'm paying $1.50/movie from NF.
Re:I'm still trying both services. (Score:2)
Have you considered the possibility that maybe you don't actually like watching DVDs?! I've been a Netflix user for probably two years now, at 8 movies at a time, and my queue consistently has 100+ DVDs. I've long since given up the notion that eventually I'll run out DVDs to get.
The shocking thing is that you apparently do not like movies but you're using two services?!
Re:netflix for pr0n (Score:2)
It was in Wired [wired.com] a while back.