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The 'Hairy Guys' Vs. Microsoft 145

Posted by Zonk from the don't-shave-we-like-you-that-way dept.
Jeremy Allison - Sam writes "The IHT is running the best write-up I've seen on the Microsoft vs EU Anti-Trust case, featuring quotes from tridge (Creator of Samba) and Carlo Piana (the FSFE lawyer). Nicely contrasts the difference between the Microsoft legal Team and the resources the FSFE has to work with. I was the FSFE witness for the initial hearing and the first trial, and this article nicely explains what it's like to be there." From the article: "The settlements left a group of computer programmers and activists, united under the banner of the Free Software Foundation Europe, with a bigger-than-expected role in supporting the EU's goal of loosening Microsoft's grip over the software industry. Only half-joking, one observer at the court this past week called some members FSFE and allies 'the hairy guys' - in contrast to the well- groomed legal teams fielded by Microsoft."
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The 'Hairy Guys' Vs. Microsoft More

The 'Hairy Guys' Vs. Microsoft

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  • For your reading convenience (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Article all on one page
    http://iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2 006/04/28/yourmoney/msft.php [iht.com].

    But speaking of hairy, I want an RMS pony! [slashdot.org]

    OMG!!! RMS PONIES!!!

  • Rather Telling (Score:2, Interesting)

    by fohat ( 168135 )
    The last paragraph is rather telling of the reason why Microsoft is in this mess in the first place. I remember when I found out that they were bundling a Firewall with Windows XP. Did they think that going to a more "root" oriented system would cause too many headaches for the end user? I imagine it was more along the lines of "We'll do something about it in the next version" syndrome. Regardless, that was the day I decided to start looking at an alternative operating system.

    Good luck Hairy guys...
    • So you decided to look for another OS just because MS decided they would do something about security and put a firewall in, rather than letting the majority of users go without, and making the rest pay for one? You either hate yourself and don't admit it or you have no concept of what good vs bad is.
    • "The commission said in 2004 that it decided not to settle with Microsoft because it wanted to set a precedent," Bellis told the court in his closing remarks. "Already, the commission is seeking to apply its precedent to features for Windows Vista - the new version of the operating system - such as a new feature that will protect Windows users from spyware infections."

      This language is of course the same old veiled threat from Microsoft that we've seen used so many times before. If I'm bad, Santa might

  • All suit and no action (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 30, 2006 @02:06PM (#15232673)
    Microsoft likes to present itself as well groomed and well mannered. It's a nice cover for their back alley tactics (which contine to this day, and will for all time). They appear like the Don polishing his favorite apple which he took from the poor lady on the street (without paying for it). "HOW DARE YOU CHARGE ME" would be his reply if she asked for compensation. He might just tip over her cart and knock her to the ground instead. Microsoft has wrung protection out of millions. Now a group from the community is banding together. The internet ties them. Microsoft and it's BSA brute squad can only kick down so many doors before a large group starts kicking down the BSA's (and Microsoft's) doors. You can call that collected community group hairy if you want to, but unlike Microsoft, they are respectable and non-crimminal.
    • unlike Microsoft, they are respectable and non-crimminal.

      Yes, but underfunded. I'm rather surprised that IBM isn't kicking a bit more into the kitty on this one. Seems like it would be a tiny investment with a potentially huge payoff.
  • Ted Haegar's Novell Open Audio podcast for 17 April [novell.com] has a lengthly and amusing phone-round search for FOSS users who are part of the hairy guy set- but the only coders he can find who have, are employed by Microsoft.

  • Obvious (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by eclectro ( 227083 )

    Many people who write free software don't have money for haircuts. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

    • Re:Obvious (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 30, 2006 @02:16PM (#15232710)
      *OR*, have other interests than selling products through 'selling themselves'. Make no mistake, 'the hairy guys' are the people who truly love what they do. More often than not, these are also the people who give birth to new technologies. The suits just take their innovation and sell it as their own. All-time classic: 'who do you trust, me or that guy who doesn't even care about his haircut?'. The right answer is 'Never trust a suit'...
      • Anyone ever tell you that "You clean up nicely"?

        Me too. It's a compliment, but...
        • My joke post below aside (I'm both shocked and totally unsurprised that anyone on slashdot bit), I hear that once in a while, too. I think my reaction is similar to yours; I sort of take it like a compliment, but I wonder what the hell the speaker thinks is wrong with me in the first place.

          I rarely wore them anyway, but a few years back I swore of neckties altogether. When an occasion requires a tie, I wear a bolo tie, with plain (but shiny!) black western boots. I've recently bought a really nice embroider
      • Make no mistake, 'the hairy guys' are the people who truly love what they do.

        Loving what you do and being able to dress yourself in a socially acceptable manner are not mutually exclusive.

        I don't know why the slashdot crowd seems to think they are.

        • Loving what you do and being able to dress yourself in a socially acceptable manner are not mutually exclusive.

          ... "socially acceptable" depends heavily on the society concerned, as well.

      • Re:Obvious (Score:4, Funny)

        by Ohreally_factor ( 593551 ) on Sunday April 30, 2006 @04:31PM (#15233312) Journal
        The "I'm too busy to care about personal hygiene and appearance" pose is usually a cover for deep seated feelings of self loathing, usually brought on by an overbearing mother and distant (or absent) father during childhood.

        We're not talking about wearing a suit and obsessing over your nostril hairs. Nobody expects a geek to be a metro. But would it kill you to get your haircut every six weeks, or wear a shirt with a collar? The answer is, no, it wouldn't kill you. In fact, it might even feel good, instead of staying up all night coding and drinking mountain dew, or worse, taking drugs.

        That's where this dressing like a slob and not getting your haircut leads you to, in case you didn't know. Drug addiction, insanity, and no date on a Friday night.

        I'm free of false drugs. When I want to get high, I get my hair cut, shine my shoes, fill up the tank, clean the windshield and hit the open road. I swear to God that there's nothing that beats the feeling of having shiny shoes.

        So, get your hair cut. It'll make your mother happy.
        • Wow...talk about closed minded. Shiny shoes+cut hair=acceptable.

          I have shoes which would be ruined if I ever shined them...you know, trendy shoes. And why the hell should I wear a collared shirt? Now I personally do, sometimes, when I feel like it, but you make it sound as if the fact that I wear (expensive?) t shirts (under my suit jacket?) means I'm unwashed scum. And maybe I like my hair done up all luxurious like Fabio (I don't, but if I did you can bet your arse that if I wanted to, I would).

          So fuck yo
          • Wow, talk about a chip on your shoulder. He likes to wear leather shoes that need shining to look good and get a haircut. Whoopty fuckin do. Forest for the trees there, agro. The point is not to get you to wear leather shoes, it's that if you invest the little bit of time to care a) what you look like and b) what other people think of what you look like, they'll treat you better.
            • Thanks for the kind words of support, but you're taking me way too seriously. =)

              Right now, I'm contemplating shaving my head and letting my beard grow out to ZZ top length [170.171.253.91].
              • Oh.

                I really did snort coke with hot naked blondes this weekend. :D
                • Um... don't tell my ex.
                • Good for you!!

                  True story: My mom died in 1991, and I was depressed. I inherited some money, so I bought my first PC, a 486, and an eighth of meth. The computer was completely disassembled within 24 hours. It took me the whole rest of the week to put it back together.

                  I was a total noob, so I had no idea what I was doing. The reason I took it apart in the first place was because I "broke" it. Unbeknownst to me, the 200 MB HD was actually a 100 MB drive doubled under stacker. And the first thing I did when I g
        • Heh. That's... interesting. You seriously suggest that if I were to cut my hair, this would somehow stop me from working late? Experience suggests otherwise: Back when I had short hair and shaved regularly, I worked longer hours than I do now (13-hour days with the occasional all-nighter rather than 9-hour ones).

          I'm a geek. I'm scruffy. I'm also one of the top three members of technical staff at the company where I work, and am well respected for such -- when I tried to resign, the CEO himself scheduled a m

        • I'm free of false drugs. When I want to get high, I get my hair cut, shine my shoes, fill up the tank, clean the windshield and hit the open road.

          Yeah, now we see why you REALLY don't do drugs. I could probably grow a pretty nice heroin addiction for what you spend on gas these days. =P

          On a serious note, though. That may be what tickles your pink, but I have yet to find a collared shirt that I'd _like_ to wear around my apartment. El Cheap-o Cotton T-Shirt, however, is quite comfy. Unless I'm out to impress
          • Yeah, now we see why you REALLY don't do drugs. I could probably grow a pretty nice heroin addiction for what you spend on gas these days. =P

            50 mpg, baybee, on my Honda Davidson. =)

            OK, everything else was a joke, but the part about getting your boots shined. If you want to test my idea, experiment for a month. Every Friday (assuming you have weekends off, adjust accordingly if you don't), get your boots shined before going out that night. If you're anything like me, it will give you a tiny, but important, b
            • Honestly, I prefer to shine my own boots. Gives me a chance to inspect them more closely than I do most of the time. Kind of a nice little diversion from things, too. I'm doing something worthwhile that needs to be done, but it gives me a while to chill and not have to focus too much. Kinda like gardening, I guess, but with more shine and less dirt.
          • but I have yet to find a collared shirt that I'd _like_ to wear around my apartment.

            I think the issue is what to wear to court.

            You MUST realize there's a difference.

            Hell, even Judge Judy would tell you to cover up your belly button.

            • But if I cover it up, nobody'll ever see the beautiful flowers I've been growing there...

              I wasn't talking about court, that falls under the "Trying to impress people" bit. I was merely stating that most people don't seem to find collared shirts to be comfortable enough to wear around without a reason, unlike the poster above.

        • Re:Obvious (Score:3, Funny)

          by ShieldW0lf ( 601553 )
          That's where this dressing like a slob and not getting your haircut leads you to, in case you didn't know. Drug addiction, insanity, and no date on a Friday night.

          That's so totally not true. I used to be a smelly shaggy IT guy with a cruel wife and a ton of self loathing, and my drug use was restricted to a little pot now and then. Now that I'm rid of the ol ball and chain and dressing nicely, my drug use has ballooned like mad. Now I'm doing things like taking esctacy and dancing till 7 in the morning

        • I suspect that you're trolling, but in doing so (or not) you really come across as one sick mutherfukker, so ...

          The "I'm too busy to care about personal hygiene and appearance" pose ...

          Here're you're labelling individuals who (arguably) are as successful in pursuing their chosen goals as you - perhaps more so (you're claiming the best high you can get is from a pair of shoes, after all - sounds like you might get along in law enforcement or the military, but amongst real people, that's just kinda frea

          • How about a tattoo? Or maybe getting yourself pierced?

            you need to learn something about Individualism and why it is a Good Thing

            Heh. Conformist rebellion is soooo cute :)
          • I suspect that you're trolling, but in doing so (or not) you really come across as one sick mutherfukker, so ...

            Thanks! I'm taking that as a compliment.
            • Thanks! I'm taking that as a compliment.

              Unsurprising. Conforming to the dictates of a sick society would make one, by definition, sick...

        • The "I'm too busy to care about personal hygiene and appearance" pose is usually a cover for deep seated feelings of self loathing, usually brought on by an overbearing mother and distant (or absent) father during childhood

          Damn! I wish I'd read your post before I spent $3k on some excellent psychotherapy [aboudarham.com] in Silicon Valley over the past couple of years. Your insight is acute!

          Personally I remind myself how much I now love myself (and loathe my mother as she was) when I brush my teeth and shave every last

        • "I'm high, but not on false drugs; but on a clean windshield, powerful gasoline and a shoeshine." Firesign Theater, "Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers". Zigmun
      • I think what you are searching for is the all-time classic- in a two with two barbers, one neatly shaved and groomed, the other with unkempt, poorly cut hair who's shop would you choose to use?

    • Re:Obvious (Score:3, Insightful)

      by B3ryllium ( 571199 )
      Bill Gates doesn't have money for haircuts either - that doesn't stop him from cutting it himself.

  • I for one welcome... (Score:4, Funny)

    by AmazingRuss ( 555076 ) on Sunday April 30, 2006 @02:15PM (#15232706)
    ...our hirsute, bespectacled overlords.
  • The IHT of this weekend also has a frontpage article about the French "iPod law" [iht.com] and the call for open source as the way forward.

  • Hairy Guys (Score:1, Insightful)

    by JPribe ( 946570 )
    So, are we talking chest hair, back hair...I'm confused!
    • Wait till males reach the age of about 25 or so. The only parts not hairy are the palms of my hand. Wich is a suprise considering folklore.

      Does it matter? Well, it is all about what you care about. Presentation or substance. Not that looking like a mess means you got subtance or vice versa BUT I might just choose a lawyer who looks like he been up all night reading legal papers rather then just fresh from the spa.

      Then again that could just mean the latter guy knows his stuff while the first is still study

  • Sam / tridge - invitation for beer or whatever (Score:3)

    by 4im ( 181450 ) on Sunday April 30, 2006 @02:30PM (#15232770)
    Hi Sam, if you or tridge are still around Luxembourg, and want to kill some time, some of us LiLux'ers would love to offer you a beer or something. For contact data, just check the LUGs website on www.linux.lu [linux.lu]. Anyway, thanks for the fight in court!

  • Something has to come out of this (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gilesjuk ( 604902 ) <<giles.jones> <at> <zen.co.uk>> on Sunday April 30, 2006 @02:56PM (#15232900)
    Microsoft can't be let off the hook twice, both the US and EU cases have cost US and EU tax payers a lot of money.

    The US case was largely dropped due to a change of US leadership and a short sighted attitude that it's best to have a big US IT monopoly than let things go abroad.

    The EU case could easily disappear for similar reasons, the EU commissioners aren't democratically elected and have been known to take backhanders in the past.
    • Oh, I was wondering why the whole US antitrust case never actually caused anything to happen. I was really too young at the time to get much from what was going on. That explains a lot, and definately provides some interesting insight into our legal structure.
      • The judge on the case misbehaved making himself look biased (he was *extremely* biased) and got his remedy thrown out. They were going back to reargue and the Bush administration decided to settle with terms that theoretically should have kept Microsoft from abusing their monopoly. The reason Microsoft's desktop monopoly hasn't started to shrink is because there simply isn't anything easy to use, with every application imaginable and available on standard PCs. Licensing issues are probably the biggest reaso
        • For purposes of the Linux kernel, it doesn't matter what the FSF says; it matters what the copyright holder says. Linus says binary kernel modules are allowed. Linus is the relevant copyright holder (kind of -- but the other folks who contribute do so knowing of the exception, and thus consent). If you have explicit permission from the copyright holder, that's your license to create binary-only kernel modules. There; done; non-issue.

          I don't see any of your other arguments, clearly portrayed, which really ho
        • Have you even read the GPL? It certainly doesn't seem like it. YOu can ship any version you want. You can ship a windows version if you want. All you have to do is to GPL your code or rewrite the stuff you linked in.

          Really just read the license. It's pretty clear. If you hate the FSF so much then it's probably best not to use any GPLed code. Don't link against it, don't incorporate it into your own code. There is lots of code available under the BSD and public domain just use that instead.
    • The US case wasn't dropped. A large portion of the original decision was overturned on appeal.

    • It's a matter of perspective... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by dpilot ( 134227 ) on Sunday April 30, 2006 @07:59PM (#15234136) Homepage Journal
      From the point of view of the incoming administration, Microsoft has been very successful, and was being punished for their success. They simply stopped what they thought was a wrong.

      The logic is at least partially self-consistent. The best and brightest people are those who have succeeded at the American Way - ie, the richest and most powerful. It's not right to punish success, success should be rewarded. View the Bush Administration's domestic actions in this perspective, and it all makes sense. It also makes a kind of sense on the morality front. Jesus Christ wasn't so hot on the wealthy, so the rich and powerful have to take a moral stand, and what easier moral stand is there to take than against the marginalized.

      This of course presumes you agree with this perspective. Others of us have no problem with success, as long as you get there fairly. Some of us also believe that having been raised on the parent's silver spoon says nothing at all about your superior skills and wit - it just says you handed a better shot at success. Then again, read the 4 Gospels, and see the group who attracted the greatest contempt from Jesus Christ - the rich and powerful who look down on others' sins.
  • Tridge is Free-Man!
  • No one is twisting your arm to use Microsoft products..

    • Re:This could have been settled a long time ago (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 30, 2006 @03:27PM (#15233040)
      ... if computer makers were prohibited from bundling Windows with every Intel-based PC.

      Having to pay a premium to get a box without Windows is the definition of arm-twisting.

    • Re:This could have been settled a long time ago (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Well, actually...

      the same EU Commission is pushing for EU software patents. Effectively, if they succeed your argument would become "no one is twisting your arm to use computers", because the currently unenforceable EU software patents microsoft holds would become valid, so the only choice would be computer+microsoft software or computer with no software. And you try living in europe without a working computer and a mobile phone these days, it's a bit similar to the problems someone who can't drive in sub
    • > No one is twisting your arm to use Microsoft products..

      Then why does it hurt? ...

      1. My kids go to school, where they run - guess what. They come home and insist they need MS Word, or Publisher, or Powerpoint, etc.. They don't say "I need to do so and so", because that isn't what they are taught. Oh, and guess who volunteered early on in the term of the present British government to provide IT training for teachers.

      2. I do Unix support, and the machine I'm given to do it with runs - guess what. My working life is spent going through Win-to-Unix kludges to get needlessly limited access to the systems.

      3. The kids come home, and want to play games. These come in versions that run on various proprietary consoles and ... you guessed it.
  • If MS is able to buy out corporates like Sun, RealNetworks, and Novell, they sure can buy out the judges (at least thru their well-paid lawyers). This seems to be a lost case unless open source developers and supporters decide to unite against MS once for all. And from what I read (like Turdge going to the court almost by force, because he wanted to go to a Samba meeting instead), this is not going to happen. And I don't see Torvalds (Linux) coming together with Trudge (Samba), Shuttleworth (Ubuntu), Pat (
    • And I don't see Torvalds (Linux) coming together with Trudge (Samba), Shuttleworth (Ubuntu), Pat (Slackware), GNOME foundation, and/or others against MS.
      Are you proving your geek pedigree by calling them all by name like they're your best pals??
      • Are you proving your geek pedigree by calling them all by name like they're your best pals??
        Nope. If I wanted to do so, I wouldn't accidentally misspell the Samba devel's name quite a few times... and check ubuntu and slackware sites to learn what the names are... nfortunately, I couldn't find a name for GNOME...

        That was an attempt to make readers use their imagination.

    • It's not "Turdge" nor "Trudge" it is Tridge.

      Short for Dr. Andrew "Tridge" Tridgell. Furthermore Dr. Tridgell is not hirsuite. In a business suit he could look quite respectable:

      http://samba.org/~tridge/ [samba.org]

      I also gather that he was a very impressive witness before European Court.

      • It's not "Turdge" nor "Trudge" it is Tridge.

        But you have to admit that Turdge sounds kinda funny. Especially from Microsoft's point of view...

        Furthermore Dr. Tridgell is not hirsuite.

        But he does seem to have much hair...

        And a cute lapdog ;)

    • If MS is able to buy out corporates like Sun, RealNetworks, and Novell,
      Can you explain what you meant by this statement?
  • 'stray cat' free software is not going away any time soon, or ever. Neither is 'pedigree cat' commercial software. They are two sides of the same coin.
  • If you look at the home page the free software foundation europe you will see nearly all doners of are German.
  • I'm hairy, does this mean I can join their gang? I'm not much with lawyering, but I can swing a sack of door knobs! Oh, I can program to.
  • ... that European governments, either individually or as a Union, could well pass a law which proscribes contractual bundling of software on any hardware platform. Microsoft, and any others tempted to do so, would be well advised to remember that that is a distinct possibility before they send in their legal heavies with the intent of subverting both corporate and individual freedoms. IOW, Licensing pre-installed software and activating it would then become a separate transaction item at the retail level.

    G

  • ...internet. They should have shown more respect for the hairies. We owe the computer/internet revolution to hairy guys all over the world.

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