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Viiv Falls Flat 257

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the certainly-not-the-last-corporate-venture-to-fail dept.
smilingman writes "The Washington Post (Retina Scan Required) is reporting that Intel's Viiv media center, which was supposed to revolutionize home entertainment and kill the living-room PC as we know it, fails miserably to deliver in its first incarnation. From the article: 'During a presentation at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, chief executive Paul S. Otellini unveiled Viiv -- a combination of hardware and software that would combine functions of the TV, the DVD player, the VCR and the video game console... In April, Viiv doesn't look much like that vision. On a typical Viiv box, Hewlett-Packard's Pavilion m7360y, it amounts to a smattering of free Web video clips and discounts on online music, movie and game rentals -- plus a nifty rainbow-hued Viiv sticker on the front of the computer.'"
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Viiv Falls Flat More

Viiv Falls Flat

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  • same old story (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:10PM (#15186524)
    Nothing new here to see, move along folks.

    I think companies are trying to push these sorts of products out the door without fully understanding what consumers are looking for -- so far it has been nothing more than a lot of hype.

    I think we have another 5 years before our living rooms become transformed.

    _
    Buy this t-shirt (cheap) [cafepress.com]

    • Re:same old story (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ScrewMaster ( 602015 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:19PM (#15186577)
      As a consumer, I already know what I want, that's why I transformed my living room some time ago. I'm in no rush for Intel's (or Microsoft's, or Sony's) vision of home entertainment. They'll get it all wrong anyway, because they'll make a bunch of assumptions that they will attempt to force on their customers.

      • Re:same old story (Score:5, Insightful)

        by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @07:13PM (#15186805) Homepage
        They'll get it all wrong anyway, because they'll make a bunch of assumptions that they will attempt to force on their customers.

        That's what happens when you try to save money on focus groups. Instead of listening to what customers want they're trying to force fit what they think they want.

        Here's a clue: You'll never be able to figure out what customers want from the corner office on mahogany row. You can't skimp on focus groups and test marketing and don't think you can make the MPAA and your customers happy. You're going to have to pick one or the other.

        And now you know what happens when you pick the MPAA.

        • Quite, although the truth of the matter is that the big boys have already picked the MPAA. That choice was cast in stone the moment PC makers decided get into the media business, and is demonstrated by their repeated disrepect for their customers. The only remaining issue is how, by some combination of marketing, lying and flashy but mediocre technology they can convince us to accept whatever restrictions the media outfits want. Doesn't matter to me (or anyone else in this thread, apparently) but I feel sor

        • Re:same old story (Score:5, Insightful)

          by pjkundert ( 597719 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @11:07PM (#15187596) Homepage
          Focus groups? FOCUS GROUPS?

          If you want watered down, sugared up, luke-warm pap, then ya, you just go run a company using Focus Groups to help you "focus" your products.

          Focus them right down the drain.

          The problem is, what people say they want, and what they will really enjoy over the long term are usually completely different. You have to have vision and guts, and give people what you know they *need*, to love your product over the long term.

          That's why Coke (in all its throat-burning, belch inducing glory) beats Pepsi (flat, watered down, and super-sweet, just like the Focus Groups like it!) -- year after year.

          That's why Ford Mustang (loud, brash, cheap, plentiful, and easy to tear down and build up) kicked Camaro -- right out of the industry.

          That's why American servicemen pry AK-47s out of dead Iraqi fingers, and toss their M-16s in the back of the HMV. Drop the AK-47 in the sand, kick it around a bit, pick it up -- it goes "bang" every time.

          So, keep your "Focus Group" Clippy-ridden, DRM-stuffed, memory-hungry spyware-addled, VIIV-infested tripe. I'll keep my bullet-proof network of trivially remotely maintained servers, not paying a red CENT to any of these MBA winners and their lame "Focus Group". Thanks, Linus.

          Thank you for your attention; you may return to your regularly scheduled program...

          • Nice rant, but what do the Camaro and M-16 have to do with focus groups? And what does your Linux server network have to do with a home media center?
            • Hmmm. You mean, what do they have to do with Focus Groups, *other* than the obvious?

              I doubt Kalashnikov had a "focus group" help him design the AK-47. He just flat out *knew* what a grunt lying in the mud would want. I'll bet that some focus group would have complained that the AK-47s mechanisms seemed sloppy... "Ya, but this here M-16's receiver mechanism is so crisp and light! Much better!!" Great, Mr. Focus Group -- except when its packed with mud...

              Likewise with the whole Media PC. What do th

          • I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. This is why the alliance with Apple is so important to intel. Intel needs Apple as much as Apple needs Intel, maybe more. Who better to showcase Intel's technology?

            To the extent that Apple might use focus groups (and I've never heard that they do), they will always be overruled by the focus individual (i.e., Steve jobs).

          • Re:same old story (Score:3, Informative)

            by the_macman ( 874383 )

            That's why American servicemen pry AK-47s out of dead Iraqi fingers, and toss their M-16s in the back of the HMV. Drop the AK-47 in the sand, kick it around a bit, pick it up -- it goes "bang" every time.

            Right. Are you talking outta your ass or do you really think this happens? I'm in the military and I can tell you soldiers in the sand box don't do this. Here's why. US Soldiers are trained to engage point targets, meaning make every shot count and hit as accurately as you can. They are trained from the

        • And now you know what happens when you pick the MPAA.

          Congress enacts oppressive laws that force the consumer to buy your shoddy product anyway?

          Bitchin!

      • As a consumer, I already know what I want, that's why I transformed my living room some time ago. I'm in no rush for Intel's (or Microsoft's, or Sony's) vision of home entertainment. They'll get it all wrong anyway, because they'll make a bunch of assumptions that they will attempt to force on their customers.

        Huzzah! I am in the process of getting everything the way I want. Currently, I just have a laptop plugged into the TV, but it'll be migrating to a PC witha remote. All my TV lives on my server. I

  • Sounds like the manufacturers fault (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 7of7 ( 956694 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:10PM (#15186527) Journal
    This situation reminds me of the problems that Microsoft has with its visions for a cheap Origami device. The ones that are coming out are quite expensive because manufacturers insist on putting Intel chips in them instead of the ones from Via that Microsoft wanted. In this case, it's likely that the manufacturers just aren't designing viiv boxes that live up to Intel's idea of what viiv should be. If Intel wants viiv done right, it's going to have to do viiv itself.
    • Origami didn't work because devices already existed which replicated its functionality. It's not really a question of cost.

      Viiv didn't work for the same reasons; it's nothing new.
    • Not to be a fanboy, but it seems like this is why Apple does as well as it does with its ideas. Since everything from vision to product blueprints to software implementation is done under one roof, there is no chance of mis-communication about the purpose of the product.
    • Everyone who hates apple is quick to say that apple is all just reality distortion field and expensive hardware. But apple executes. Apples has a track record of seeing potential and executing reall working visions not just fancy stickers. Consider the first accessible use of Post script for Desktop publishing. Hell consider the first __stable__ implemetation of dynamic ram (at the time of the apple two the intel world was 100% static ram (I should know I used to sell and design s-100 bus memory boards)

  • This can't possibly surprise anyone (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sd.fhasldff ( 833645 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:10PM (#15186530)
    Viiv was always going to be more marketing that substance.

    That said, what did TFA expect it to be? A free lifetime membership to download all the movies you want?

    What will matter are ease of installation, looks of final box (mostly out of Intel's hands) and noise... along with costs and a few necessary features, of course.

  • Same stuff, different tagline. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by crazyjeremy ( 857410 ) * on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:11PM (#15186532) Homepage Journal
    Viiv apparently is very similar to other desktops already out there... Personally, I prefer an Open source PVR jigged to work around Macrovision and other DRM bunk. I doubt VIIV will be so kind.

  • Wow (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:11PM (#15186533)
    It's pretty cool that the computer industry has matured to the point that we can actually ship vaporware!

    Does Intel even know what "Viiv" is supposed to be? It is actually supposed to *be* anything? Or are they just selling random names now?
    • It is a really bad play on the Roman numerals for 64. It seems to be bad in other espects too..

    • Re:Wow (Score:3, Interesting)

      by mapmaker ( 140036 )
      Does Intel even know what "Viiv" is supposed to be? It is actually supposed to *be* anything?

      Think of Viiv as "Son of Centrino"; it is a brand, a sticker, that an OEM can slap on their boxes if they buy a bundle of components from Intel instead of just the processor. This worked very well with the Centrino campaign, it effectively coerced OEMs to buy an overpriced wireless chipset from Intel to go with every Pentium M they wanted. Otherwise their laptops couldn't be "Centrino" laptops, and Joe Sixpack k

    • It's an editor for palindromic files. Many people prefer the programmability of emacsscame, however.

  • But... (Score:4, Funny)

    by alerante ( 781942 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:11PM (#15186534) Homepage

    Having a nifty rainbow-hued sticker on the front of my computer is half the fun!

  • Media Center software is not commercially viable (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Odiumjunkie ( 926074 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:11PM (#15186535) Journal
    It seems to me that the concept of a Media Center PC is totally at odds with current corporate movements towards content protection.

    Any half-decent MCPC will be able to, at a minimum, record televsion broadcasts through whatever medium the customer happens to use. This is not something that content producers or media corporations want. It grants far too much freedom to the consumer to keep high-value programs without buying them on physical media and to avoid advertising.

    Also, it's very likely in the future that media producers will want to separate media playback and the home computer as much as possible. An easy way to cut down on content copying is simply to only chip purpose-built media players and not license chipped optical drives for PCs.

    Media corporations have massive lobbying power, I can't see any large hardware vendor empowering the consumer in the way that a useful MCPC requires without running into large problems.
    • It seems to me that the concept of a Media Center PC is totally at odds with current corporate movements towards content protection.

      Not really. If you look at the latest in greatest DRM schemes, the idea is more along the lines of making it more useful without having to crack the DRM.

      For example, with a DVD you can't do anything with it except play the disk (unless you crack it). With HD-DVD, the "managed copy" infrastructure is in there so you could theoretically stream it, or copy it to your jukebox, or w
    • It's at odds at the moment, but look carefully at the Trusted Computing initiative, formerly called Palladium. It's being implemented in the Intel CPU's directly, and provides DRM and authentication of software and hardware to force the use of specific software to unlock specific hardware features for specific files.

      That is exactly what is needed to provide media distributor of control home recording of television shows, cable broadcasts, and media such as CD's and DVD's. It's also why, for now at least, yo
    • Also, it's very likely in the future that media producers will want to separate media playback and the home computer as much as possible. An easy way to cut down on content copying is simply to only chip purpose-built media players and not license chipped optical drives for PCs.

      An easy way to piss off the market and have consumers blatantly ignore your antics, maybe. I hope the TV/Movie business has the good sense to get on the market much sooner than RIAA did with the iTMS. Right now they're busy with thei

  • Well now... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RemovableBait ( 885871 ) <[slashdot] [at] [blockavoid.co.uk]> on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:13PM (#15186543) Homepage
    Too much hype before launch == a product that doesn't meet expectations. Simple as that.

    Seriously, I never expected Viiv to be a huge success, but I at least expected that there would be some benefit that would make it worthwhile. If many high end HTPCs are better then Viiv computers (which the article suggests), but available at a lower pricepoint, then Viiv will fail. Anyone could have figured that out.
    • It comes as no surprise to me, since Intel was advertising pure DRM and trying to pretend it was somehow a good thing. That's not just stupid, it's evil -- like the doublespeak from 1984!

  • software, not hardware (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gEvil (beta) ( 945888 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:13PM (#15186545)
    The problem with Viiv is that all the things that they're saying we'll be able to do with them are functions of software, not hardware. Since they're depending on MCE for functionality, it doesn't matter whether you have a Viiv machine, a regular Intel processor, or (god forbid) an AMD one.

  • Of course... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MaestroSartori ( 146297 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:14PM (#15186548) Homepage
    ...a TV is useless if nobody broadcasts anything. A DVD player or VCR is useless if there's nothing to play or record with it. And anyone with a computer can already play computer games.

    Sounds like Intel has put the cart quite a long way before the horse, and has released a platform with no worthwhile content. We'll see if the platform survives long enough to get any worthwhile content now, but I'm not hugely optimistic. Time will tell, I suppose!

  • No Surprise (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This won't be done right until Apple does it.

    • They already have (Score:3, Interesting)

      by richdun ( 672214 )
      All the Intel Mac Mini sitting next to my HDTV needs is access to a high-res store of movies and TV shows through the Front Row interface, and I'll be set. And subscription or a la carte, I really don't care.

  • Easy Recipe to follow; (Score:5, Insightful)

    by B5_geek ( 638928 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:16PM (#15186562)
    75% Reinvent the wheel
    20% Lets play it safe so we don't scare content providers away.
    3% There are quite a few geeks on the IntarWeb who are doing this, lets do it ourselves so we can milk money from the $Mass_Market_Idiots
    2% I heard about this whole TV-Internet convergence thing in 1996 and I have never seen anybody else get it right, maybe we can do it!

    As a bonus, we can sell Processors equiped with SFT Technology!
    (Super.Fast.Television)
    We will call it SaFeTy Chip!

  • i've never even heard of it... (Score:4, Funny)

    by random_amber ( 957056 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:23PM (#15186600)
    Viiv? how do i pronounce this? Six-Four? or Seven-Five?

  • VIIV has no soul (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Thornkin ( 93548 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:25PM (#15186609) Homepage
    VIIV failed because it has no reason to exist. What is VIIV? I have scoured the internet and Intel's site to figure this out. As far as I can tell, it is a marketing message surrounding Media Center PCs. How a VIIV Media Center is better than a non-VIIV Media Center, I have no idea. Other than including the Core Duo processor, I don't even really understand what it means to be a VIIV PC. At least with Centrino (another exercize in branding from Intel), I knew it meant these 3 chips were in the computer. Now, all I know is it has a sticker.

    The internet is starting to dismantle some forms of traditional marketing. Hype alone doesn't cut it any more. Intel hasn't realized that. It created something that was pure hype and now it is seeing its balloon quickly deflated.

    This is not a first for Intel to try this though. MMX makes the internet go faster. Anyone remember that?
    • This is not a first for Intel to try this though. MMX makes the internet go faster. Anyone remember that?

      Indeed. I recall the one of the first major web ad campaigns was one in which websites carried the ridiculous message to the effect that "this site is optimised for the Intel Pentium Processor with MMX Technology". Or, as I read it, "this website is best viewed with ad-blocking technology" (which, unfortunately, I don't believe was readily available at the time, so I went through a long stretch of browsi
    • This is not a first for Intel to try this though. MMX makes the internet go faster. Anyone remember that?

      MMX [wikipedia.org] was an actual hardware improvement that did make media "go faster". It has been used and improved by Intel and AMD. Support for the features is built into the GNU compilers and processor specific Linux kernels, which most distributions have as precompiled binaries.

      ViiV's main feature seems to be hardware based DRM [hardwareanalysis.com].

      • The link you had was an interesting *editorial*, but it still had no insight on what types of DRM will be enabled under VIIV.

        I'm not disagreeing with the guy's opinion, but that doesn't make it insightful.
        • it still had no insight on what types of DRM will be enabled under VIIV.

          The author claims hardware support for Paladium and "Output Content Protection". He further claims that unless you have "High bandwidth Digital Content Protection, support on your display" you won't be watching any movies and that Vista will try to lock you into Windoze formats. I don't have the hardware budget to keep up with such things, so I'll take his word for it and that's hardware protection for DRM.

          If you combine that with r

      • an actual hardware improvement that did make media "go faster".

        It's easy to forget how important hardware support for media is. On my old computer (Athlon 1700+, 512MB RAM), the video card burned up and I had to swap in an old TNT2. I couldn't even play fullscreen video on it because the framerate dropped too low.
      • GP post: MMX makes the internet go faster.

        Parent: MMX was an actual hardware improvement that did make media "go faster".

        Who can spot the disconnect here?

        I'll back up the grandparent post. I distinctly recall claims being made about how the faster Intel processors made downloading faster. Not media playing, which they never actually advertised that I recall, nor game playing, but faster downloading.

        I've always considered that one of the most deceptive and stupid ad campaigns ever run; deceptive for claiming
        • One word: WinModem.

          I'm not kiddin. Back in the day it was nothing for your cpu to be raped from a WinModem driver that was poorly optimized [or scheduled for P5 at the time].

          So having MMX to do the DSP work for the modem could make your downloads faster if only by allowing you to connect at higher speeds and still have CPU left over to run your TCP stack.

          Tom

    • Re:VIIV has no soul (Score:5, Informative)

      by TubeSteak ( 669689 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @09:30PM (#15187315) Journal
      What is VIIV? I have scoured the internet and Intel's site to figure this out.
      Scour harder?

      http://www.google.com/search?q=viiv+criteria [google.com]
      leads you to http://www.intel.com/support/entertainment/viiv/sb /CS-021546.htm [intel.com]

      Viiv effectively encompasses a motherboard, CPU, the OS + software and an optional remote.

      Maybe you're underwhelmed because... the criteria is fairly underwhelming. No HD size requirements, no graphics requirement beyond onboard video, no tv/vivo requirement, no min RAM, etc etc etc.

      I honestly don't understand the point of their marketing campaign if it isn't mandatory that Viiv includes a tv tuner + remote. At least Centrino meant that your computer had a wireless card.

  • What do they want it to do? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by aslate ( 675607 ) <planetexpress@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:27PM (#15186614) Homepage
    Working at PC World, i've seen the marketing and blurb Intel are putting out about these things, and have had a nice Intel rep tell me all about the Viiv processor/PC thingies.

    The flash animations he's got show you having one PC, a Viiv compatible stereo that can recieve your music wirelessly, a TV in the frontroom linked to your PC so you can use it as a PVR and so on. No-one will ever set their PC up like that, especially not the John Smith from the street that decides he wants a nice new PC.

    The only thing Viiv offers the home user is a bloody fast PC, built in wireless (On a desktop, not that useful!) and a nifty instant-standby button that's not quite instant but about 5 seconds, very good for a PC to be honest. But is it this nice "platform" they advertise it as? No. What about all the Viiv compatible kit (See stereo above) that's meant to happen? I'd like to see it out and a price tag myself.
    • "[...] built in wireless (On a desktop, not that useful!) [...]"

      Minor grouse.

      The advantage of the built-in wireless is that I can put the device where I want it to be. All I need is a place to plug it in.

      For example, my cable connection comes in on one side of the room and I had to run this wire around the baseboard of my apartment's living room to get it to the other side of the room, where I want my computer. With wireless, I'd just put the modem and the base station over there and my computer over here

  • The concept of "delivering on the promise..." (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:41PM (#15186665) Homepage
    ...has always been a bit alien to the PC industry.

    PC types keep scratching their heads trying to figure out what people like about Apple. It never seems to cross their mind that it's because Apple at least delivers some of what it promises.

    The article says: "The worst experience of all came when I tried to view Intel's own showcase of Viiv content. At first, clicking this button yielded a "Windows Media Center Edition required" error. After rebooting the computer to try again, I was presented with a lengthy license agreement and an ActiveX installation dialog. The subsequent download seemed to stall out when the HP-bundled Norton Internet Security firewall warned that "EntriqMediaServer" was a high-risk program that it should always block. Naturally, that was a Viiv component."

    I cannot ever imagine that Apple would ever, ever, ever ship a product in a state like that. Words fail me. Did nobody at HP or Intel ever try actually using the product even once? Does anything think they have responsibility for what the user finds when they take the product out of the box?
    • A buddy of mine asked me to fix an HP pc once. The windows installation was so hosed it would not run in normal mode under any condition. After a bit of snooping around I realized the easiest thing was to reinstall from the restore partition.
      Bad idea.
      When the restore was complete, I saw exactly what HP ships.
      They ship a nightmare box, with crappy conflicting software, spyware like weatherbug, and useless photo managers. No firewalls are configured and they try to force 8 different ISPs at you.
      The mac
    • PC types keep scratching their heads trying to figure out what people like about Apple. It never seems to cross their mind that it's because Apple at least delivers some of what it promises.

      The key question is what promise you are talking about. The promise of content implies co-operation with big dumb publishers. Those big dumb publishers have extracted almost every content penny out of Itunes, and left Apple with the crumbs of what they make selling hardware. The artists, as usual did not get anything

    • Re:The concept of "delivering on the promise..." (Score:5, Insightful)

      by R3d M3rcury ( 871886 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @09:45PM (#15187366) Journal
      "Did nobody at HP or Intel ever try actually using the product even once? Does anything think they have responsibility for what the user finds when they take the product out of the box?"

      I tend to doubt it.

      First, Intel doesn't actually make the box. As the article says, Intel makes the standard. It's up to the OEMS (eg, HP, Sony, Gateway, Dell, etc.) to implement the standard from a hardware perspective. These people can dance around, cut pieces, change pieces, etc.

      So, in theory, HP starts with a box that works. But then they need to add more software. Some of this is done to make life easier for the user--after all, I want my HP Camera to work seamlessly with my HP Computer, right? So HP's Imaging Group adds their software. Some of this is the same sort of thing that Microsoft has included with Windows Media Center Edition--software for doing slide shows, etc. So you now have two programs for managing your photos--the one in Windows and the one that the HP Imaging Group wrote. Next, the Business Development group comes along. They make a deal with Adobe, where Adobe will pay them 25 cents for each copy of Adobe Photoshop Elements Crippleware (works with up-to 75 photos--send $40 to Adobe to get the full version) that they put on a computer. HP also might have a deal with Symantec, for example, to include Norton Internet Security. HP includes it for free and gets, say, $25 when the user signs up with Symantec for product updates. Internet Security is a good thing, right?

      So even if some employee does use it and comes back and says, "This is a complete mess," who do you get rid of? Well, you can't get rid of Microsoft's software because it's "part of the operating system" or because Microsoft will raise the price of Windows unless you include it. The HP Imaging Group will remind you that all HP products should work together, so you can't get rid of their software. And Business Development will tell you that they make money off of every copy of some crappy sampleware that they stick on the machine, so you can't get rid of any of that stuff.

      So there isn't really a solution, other than build your own or go to a smaller company that will build one for you...
      • And Business Development will tell you that they make money off of every copy of some crappy sampleware that they stick on the machine...

        And this is always what kills. Some douche thinks that the $.25 per machine they make is where their company makes all their money... never realizing that all those extra ingredients are what make their computers SUCK and that prevents ANYONE from buying one. They always seem to miss the fact that no stuff sold == no profit; that somehow all their cross-promotional agreeme

  • Failed Generation (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @06:58PM (#15186744) Homepage Journal
    The past few years we've seen several attempts to launch the obvious next steps in personal media: home media PCs and networked console games. The products the big companies like Microsoft, Microsoft, Intel, Microsoft and Sony have launched have all failed to appeal to any but existing enthusiasts. The technology seems ready, but the "operational paradigm", the UI structure, seem uninspired. It's a revolutionary leap that's born as an evolutionary step.

    Could these companies, and their risk-averse cultures, just be the wrong worlds from which these new platforms need to be born? Is there a more radical product that's not getting the attention it needs to catch on because it's upstaged by the big failures, in the media and in the market?
    • Unless you meant something other than Xbox Live when you said 'networked game consoles', last time I checked, Xbox Live was doing fairly well. Even Sony is copying that kind of system.

  • Does it really matter? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by guardiangod ( 880192 ) on Sunday April 23, 2006 @07:11PM (#15186794)
    I just watched the former Intel chief architect Bob Colwell's talk on architect [stanford.edu]. In it he raise a very good point-

    Don't expect to sell your first generation of platform (or architect). It sucks. You know it, the customers know it. Instead use it as a phototype to get feedbacks from.

    Maybe something that sounded like a good idea doesn't work in real life. Maybe something that was left out in the production is essential to the success. You wouldn't know unless you start selling your product.

    Concentrate on making your second generation better.

  • Problem is with Media Center PCs in general (Score:3, Informative)

    by itsah2 ( 964330 ) <itsah2@gmail.com> on Sunday April 23, 2006 @07:50PM (#15186939)
    It seems to me like the Media Center PC market as a whole is doomed for failure. Sure, some people will like the idea of having content stored on a hard drive that they can view on their TV, but in general, people want simplicity and reliability.

    Viiv (or any Media Center for that matter) can't deliver that. 90% of consumers don't want a box that they're going to have to boot up every time they want to record a show or watch TV. They want something that is easy to hook up, fast to start up (steps are being made towards this for PCs, but I haven't seen a whole lot so far), and, most of all, easy to use.

    Sure, I can use Media Center, but do you think my mother can?
  • Anything thats supposed to replace current DVD/RADIO/VCR needs to be as simple to use as those are today. Windows Media Center just plain sucks to use and has DRM functions that makes it much worse than your DVD with recording capabilities. As long as media centers are a PITA to use and demands a personal admin they will fail miserably. That rules out any form of DRM, something Microsoft and the rest of the idiots fail to understand.
  • What, how many mishaps is this? What is going on with this company?

    They pushed P6 until it broke.
    They pushed Netburst until it broke.
    They seem to be pushing P6-2 until it breaks.

    Meanwhile, everything else (e.g. VIIV) is flopping. Why is it that when a business grows to a certain size, it becomes useless? Look how small AMD is compared to intel, and compare the two companies' product lineups right now.

    I think the future will be distributed and groups/corpuses will be limited in size, after the mammals (say,
  • Who runs Intel? What are they thinking? I used to work for an Intel distributor(not just CPUs). Intel is nothing but a bunch of half-baked product jokers. They make good CPUS and excellent NICs. IDSN routers = crap, T1 Routers = crap, their modular switches from 6 years ago... crap, SSL accelerators = crap. They have turned out so many crap products only to dump them. They should either get serious about consumer product dev or quit.

    I remember one meeting with the Intel Sales reps about how excited t

  • Good thing they're "vi" fans and not "emacs", otherwise it would be: "introducing the new 'Emacsscame'"

  • VIIV is 64 to an idiotic marketing department.
  • ...is that Centrino was a unbelievable success. It was a similar bundle-of-stuff, but unlike Viiv, it actually made some sense.

    Intel thought that they could make another bundle, put a name on it, and make gigabucks again. *sigh* I think that they were just lucky the first time.

    Thad Beier
  • C'mon, did marketing sleep through this?

    What's the target audience for a PC based entertainment system? Geeks. Every "early adopter" already has his DVD/VCR/Whatnot player. Every "normal" person doesn't even have a clue what viiv is, is scared away when they hear it is "some sort of computer" and buys some DVD player off the shelf.

    So why didn't geeks buy it? Because they know what "DRM" means.

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