Sun's Scott McNealy's Days are Numbered? 104
alek writes "The Wall Street Journal writes 'Dusk could be near for Sun's McNealy' where they conjecture that the founder and and CEO of Sun Microsystems might be leaving soon. They suggest that the return of former CFO Michael Lehman and and a more active Board pressing for improved performance could result in COO Jonathan Schwartz taking over the top job. We've heard stories like this for years but Scott has hung in there for a long time - his response to the WSJ was 'That rumor is about 22 years old and still chuggin.'"
Sun's days Are Numbered (Score:2)
One has to wonder if Sun is ripe for a takeover by the likes of Google. There is alot of speculation on this and it kinda makes sense. What's Sun's bread and butter these days?
http:religiousfreaks.com [religiousfreaks.com]Re:Sun's days Are Numbered (Score:1)
Synergy (Score:2)
For Google, the benefits are more dubious. Sure, they get OpenOffice.org, but don't they have Sun talent working on an AJAX OpenOffice.org already? Plus, they have Writely, now. Plus, OpenOffice.org is LGPL, so Google can pretty much do what it wants. OTOH, the OpenOffice.or
Re:Sun's days Are Numbered (Score:1, Interesting)
People always talk of Microsoft vs Google or MSFT vs Sun or MSFT vs Netscape for MSFT vs AOL - but they rarely realize that it's always been Microsoft vs Kleiner Perkins Caufield and Byers [kpcb.com] where all these c
Google the well known hardware manufacturer? (Score:2)
Re:Sun's days Are Numbered (Score:2)
I would hope Google would complete their acquisition of Disney before we start speculating about Sun. One at a time folks, one at a time.
Re:Sun's days Are Numbered (Score:1)
Re:Sun's days Are Numbered (Score:2, Funny)
Scott McNealy's days at Sun are numbered 8001 with tomorrow being #8002.
Re:Sun's days Are Numbered (Score:1)
McNealy, Ballmer, or Ellison (Score:1)
Whay about Ray? (Score:3, Insightful)
Of all the people listed, I would rather have him running the show.
Re:Whay about Ray? (Score:2)
Re:Whay about Ray? (Score:1)
Re:Whay about Ray? (Score:1)
Re:McNealy, Ballmer, or Ellison (Score:1)
Why not? (Score:1)
Sun makes great hardware... (Score:1, Insightful)
Don't get me wrong, Sun has given a lot to OSS but they really need to stop sucking that dry Solaris tit while they slowly starve to death. It looks kinda funny when there is a full Linux teat right next to them and they wont fully embrace it.
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:5, Insightful)
ZFS is a filesystem that can do raid5-like storage or mirrors. Filesystems can share a common storage pool. You can make snapshots instantly, and at any time you want you can roll back to that snapshot (transactions). Everything about it is very cool, check it out.
DTrace is also amazing. You can observe almost anything about a running program with negligable performance impact. It will break the information down for you statistically so you can tell that, for example, 1% of the time a given function call takes 1000 times longer than average.
It's also got containers and zones, and a service manager.
I have been using Linux and FreeBSD for a long time. I am just getting interested in Solaris, and I am very impressed.
Also available on Linux (Score:1)
I thought I had read dtrace was on linux too, but what I had really read was Inotify replacing Dnotify on Linux.
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/librar y/l-inotify.html?ca=dgr-lnxw51Inotify [ibm.com]
How hard would it be to port these things to Linux?
Re:Also available on Linux (Score:1)
Re:Also available on Linux (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the porting of ZFS would be reasonable to do, but I'm sure it would take some work.
DTrace seems like it would require a LOT of work. All the work of DTrace was not the userspace application, but all of the hooks added into the OS at every level. So basically it would be repeating all the work o
Re:Also available on Linux (Score:2)
Have you followed the links that you provided?
Because if you did, you would have noticed that ZFS and Dtrace are actually NOT available for linux and it will probably take considerable time to port such complex mechanisms to it.
Re:Also available on Linux (Score:1)
One reason why Linux
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:2)
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:2)
Not only that, but due to zfs's design, if there is a power failure the raid does not need to be resync'd, nor does it need any kind of nvram. It really removes a lot of the headaches of raid.
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:1)
> megafast because it actually mirrors only the contents of the filesystem (a
> conventional raid would go ahead and mirror the entire physical disk bit by
> bit).
Pardon? And that would matter how? You not got a volume manager? Not many low use filesystems if you got one.
ZFS needs to really be released first (Score:2)
Otherwise. . . it is just a piece of software with lots of promises with no real release.
Re:ZFS needs to really be released first (Score:2)
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:3, Informative)
It would be difficult to find a OS that on a capability by capability approaches Solaris as a server platform. dtrace, SMF, zones, fireengine, great scalability, good enough HCL.
However I can understand a Linux advocate wanting Sun to drop Solaris, it is the closest and best competitor to Linux.
A large number of big commercial companies that were early adopters of Linux are now looking long and hard a
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:2)
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:1)
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:2, Informative)
But to play devils advocate for a bit, the free like beer "download editions" for most Linux distros have left a larger market of Linux admins to hire from. We are a mixed shop but most of the "new" guys into out Linux/UNIX deparment tend to prefer Linux becasue that is what they know. Everytime we lose an old Solaris guy, we get a new Linux guy. I don't
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:1)
This is actually more leniant than RedHat for example where you cannot use RedHat without a support contract and instead you have to rely on using Fedora.
If you do require full support as you would if you ran RedHat Enterprise Linux then you obviously pay Sun and Sun charges less per system than RedHat for what they argue is better support.
So if you are a large or
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:2)
Yes, their home-made opteron CPUs are a great example of how Sun does hardware....
Sun has given a lot to OSS but they really need to stop sucking that dry Solaris tit while they slowly starve to death. It looks kinda funny when there is a full Linux teat right next to them and they wont fully embrace it.
Solaris is opensource now, and the license is quite reasonable. There's many people playing with opensolaris now that it has been opensourced. Hell, if it wasn't because i'm on dialup
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:2)
Like many pro-sun enterprise people you don't seem to realize that the low and middle-end sun servers are all based on AMD CPUs. When they started the move, they didn't even had a 64-bit version of solaris for those CPUs - pretty sucky for a company that had been doing 64-bit computing for nearly a decade. Not a good example of high-quality enterprise hardware, if you ask me
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:2)
Sun has some interesting technology in their UltraSPARC T1 processor. 32 threads of simultaneous execution and only 72 watts.
Re:Sun makes great hardware... (Score:1, Informative)
If you'd also like some of that milk superformula, you can find it at opensolaris.org. Especially where it says "putback logs" -- that's the milk glands.
McNealy is selling, what is this telling? (Score:3, Informative)
Date Insider Shares Type Transaction Value*
17-Feb-06 MCNEALY, SCOTT G.
Chairman 2,400,000 Direct Option Exercise at $3.125 per share. $7,500,000
17-Feb-06 MCNEALY, SCOTT G.
Chairman 2,400,000 Direct Sale at $4.30 - $4.37 per share. $10,404,0002
17-Feb-06 MCNEALY, SCOTT G.
Chief Executive Officer 2,400,000 Direct Planned Sale $10,344,0001
Get out while the gettin's good, take the money and run.
Sun is trading at $5 a share, time to buy? or forgeddaboudit!?
Re:McNealy is selling, what is this telling? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:McNealy is selling, what is this telling? (Score:2, Insightful)
Time to buy I think -
SUN have always had their critics - they did well in the dotcom boom, and everyone said that they chose the wrong model before it kicked off.
They have new servers, new chips and an impressive roadmap - I think they have turned a corner.
Re:McNealy is selling, what is this telling? (Score:4, Interesting)
Now's the time to decide--earnings call is on Monday. There are some credible rumors floating around that this will be the first profitable quarter in years. Sun's really revamped their product line in the last 16 months (AMD, Niagara, etc.) and in their last 10-K they mentioned they were actually having a hard time meeting demand. (Apropos the original story, there's also speculation that this would be an ideal note for McNealy to end his career on.)
If they do end up back in the black, every analyst and his brother will be on CNBC Tuesday morning shouting "Turned the corner!" and I think it would cause some major institutional buyers to jump back in. Unlike the run-up last month which got subsequently iced due to profit taking, the big guys would be in it for the long haul, creating a new support. $5.50 or maybe even $6? I haven't done the math.
And I feel like this possiblity hasn't been fully capitalized in to the current price--I'm really surprised how little talk there is about SUNW on the boards, newswires, or the Street. A lot of people seem to have written it off as a sad relic of the dot-com era. I think they're missing out on two key points: 1) how revolutionary and unique these new UltraSparc T1s are, especially for those serving up huge amounts of online content (ie everyone) or who are worried about energy costs (ie everyone), and 2) how much brand equity "Sun Microsystems" carries among a whole generation of 25+ year old geeks who grew up worshipping that awesome UltraSparc workstation in the server room/lab/etc (like everyone at Google, for one.)
To the extent that it's even possible nowadays, I feel like SUNW has been slipping under the radar for the last couple months.
P.S. I am quite obviously long on this stock, so if course it's in my best interest to convince you of all this
Re:McNealy is selling, what is this telling? (Score:3, Interesting)
Unfortunately, most of that brand equity has been eaten away by half a decade during which you'd rather be compiling on your desktop than on the server, and trying to answer embarrasing questions why the devs get better performance out of their java code on their laptop than on the expensive app server.
You know, five years ago those 25+ yearers would form a queue when machines got decommissioned and handed out.
Re:McNealy is selling, what is this telling? (Score:2)
Re:McNealy is selling, what is this telling? (Score:2)
Of course, that's cheapo in the Sun sense: their prices are still 50-200% higher than comparable anonymous white box hardware.
So what gives? Well, it turns out TCO for Sun hardware is actually lower [sun.com] even factoring in the higher hardware cost.
The article you cited says:
For purposes of our analysis, let's assume all servers are of equal cost: Server price: $3,000.00
whitebox AMD + Solaris: $3,000 + (3 * $120) + (36 * $65.00) = $5,700.00
Sun AMD + Solaris: $3,000 + (3 * $120) + (36 * $39.00)
Oh my. (Score:5, Funny)
Replacing McNealy with Schwartz would be like performing a brain transplant in which a poorly functioning brain is replaced with a kidney.
Re:Oh my. (Score:2)
Re:Oh my. (Score:2)
Re:Your sig (Score:2)
Might not be bad, if its true? (Score:2, Interesting)
Now, I'm no fanboy of either one, but McNealy is probably better suited to chair thier R&D or something than he is to being CEO these days. Schwartz at least would put a more energetic face on the company and (one could h
Re:Might not be bad, if its true? (Score:1, Flamebait)
Quite. I wanted to use Solaris for my small company and looked
into buying some ultrasparcs. Yeah , right. HOW much just
for the CPU box WITHOUT monitor, keyboard or mouse and with
some 5 year out of date graphics card?? Suns marketing dept are still living on Planet 1980s when Unix hardware really could command a serious premium over PCs.
Not now though , at least not in the low end of the market
(high end servers are another matter).
Re:Might not be bad, if its true? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Might not be bad, if its true? (Score:1)
Re:Might not be bad, if its true? (Score:2)
To an engineer, McNealy is the real deal,
Re:Might not be bad, if its true? (Score:2)
No surprise - Schwartz spent some time working for one of the big management consulting firms.
He probably learned how to sell crap to CEOs while he was there. It's what the management consulting firms *do*.
Money men (Score:3, Insightful)
Just my 2 cents, but whatever you think of him Scott McNealy is a colourful and entertaining character in an industry of direly grey men. I'd be sorry to see him go, at least until he'd found a new home for Sun as it is hard to see how it can continue on its own for that much longer.
Re:Money men (Score:2)
Has to be said... (Score:1)
Well, of course McNealy's days are numbered... (Score:1)
I mean, he is, right? Can we get confirmation on this?
Hmmm... (Score:2)
As Mel Brooks would put it (Score:1)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Their management needs a lot of change (Score:1)
I agree that Sun could have OpenSourced Solaris earlier, but there where practical difficulties in doing this such as who owned the rights to all the Solaris components etc which meant that it was always going to take a long time.
Sun clearly misjudged the OpenSource communities obsession
McNealy aside, rest of Sun is poorly executing (Score:3, Insightful)
- Tried to call Sun 4 times to get quotes for hardware and support contracts. Did not get hold of a human, phone system made me leave messages each time. No one ever returned my calls.
- All Sun's patches, and their treasure trove of support information, SunSolve, is behind a paid firewall now, and you need to buy a support contract to get access. See item above. Why not just a support subscription I can charge to my credit card. Zillions of people would probably pay $500 per year for that. I would, gladly.
- We bought several of the new X4100 boxes. Nicely designed, but serial console management did not work in Solaris 10 (or else required a fistful of undocumented hacks), and the LOM remote console was buggy and crashed a couple of times, requiring a system power cycle. We sent the servers back.
- It takes me twice as long to build any OSS on Solaris - no one is really developing on it consistently. Ever tried building Firefox on Solaris?
Basically, this is all execution. It's just easier to buy something other than a Sun. If need a Web server, I can have a Linux host installed and up from CDROM in 15 min, 45 min if I care about building the absolute latest version of Apache or an obscure Apache module.
How about that (Score:2)
You'd think they'd put a links allover their web site to rope in all the legacy Sunsolve users and the people downloading free Solairs 10.
I know Sun's trying; with my past connection to them and Silicon Valley, it's physically painful to watch.
Re:McNealy aside, rest of Sun is poorly executing (Score:1)
Also, I am interested in any other issues you had with the X4100.
Thanks,
Brian
4100 issues (Score:2)
The other issues were that we just could not get consistent serial port access all the way through the boot process. The documentation was either nonexistent of inconsistent (like, it said to supply the
Hu was that? (Score:2)
Scott never gives up (Score:4, Interesting)
He never gives up.
It's very easy to armchair quarterback what Sun and Scott have been doing this past decade or so. Whenever I find myself wondering why my SUNW shares aren't worth a tenth of what I paid for them, I'm tempted to think of how I could run the company better than Scott. And then I realize that my puny mind can't come up with anything. The company generates cash, employs a lot of people and satisfies a lot of customers. Scott's never been afraid to remake the company (I lived through the transition from technical workstations to commercial servers and that was quite something), but there's only so much that you can do.
I have no clue what's going on inside the company now but, of one thing I'm sure: if Scott does step aside, it's because he thinks that it's the best thing for the company. He's given everything to it for over 20 years, and could easily have taken the "go lie on a beach" path years and years ago.
Re:Scott never gives up (Score:1)
And having run bot
Re:Scott never gives up (Score:2)
Re:Scott never gives up (Score:1)
Your comments ring very true. A lot of them are symptoms of any Very Large Company. But, even back in 1994 when I last worked there, I saw signs of what looked like process for process sake. GE pulled it off, and that company is clearly one of Scott's role models. But Sun's Bay Area culture didn't mesh well with ISO 9000, Six Sigma (or however many sigmas is in fashion these days) and an overlay of process over an essentially anarchic infrastructure.
Scott used to say that he ran Sun wit
Re:Scott never gives up (Score:1)
Re:Scott never gives up (Score:2)
Re:Scott never gives up (Score:1)
Re:Scott never gives up (Score:1)
which cost sun dozens of millions to nail down.
http://www.sunmanagers.org/pipermail/summaries/20
wherein sun didn't read the fine print on the specs for some alpha-particle-susceptible
memory from IBM...
Look at them!!! Take a look!!! (Score:1)
These aren't two business people finishing a deal! These are comrades, even more THAT'S LOVE! Look at their eyes, how they look at each other, the smiles in their faces, incredible. There's hope for mankind, we're still able to really, really love each other.
Replacing Scotty would - of course - destroy this enormous love...
Oh my..., all these feelings...
Popular retirement candidates (Score:2)
In the article it says "Mr. Stahlman wrote a research note about the possibility of a management change in early March." If I were him, I wouldn't be boasting about it.
"Dusk could be near". That's news with confidence
It's official - Scott to step down as CEO (Score:2)