HD-DVD's Temporary Edge 158
kukyfrope writes to mention a GameDailyBiz article speculating on the edge HD-DVD will have on Blu-ray in the near future. From the article: "Although Toshiba may take round one, in the long run 'complicating factors may shift the balance.' ABI predicts that by the end of 2006, only about 30 percent of the global hi-def movie player market will be controlled by Blu-ray, but that could quickly change as Sony launches its PlayStation 3 (which has a Blu-ray drive) worldwide this November. '...its large expected sales figures could change the market dominance picture dramatically,' notes ABI."
Typo? (Score:5, Informative)
No (Score:2)
Re:Typo? (Score:1)
This whole argument is so fucking stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
This whole argument about "oh which technology is better and which one should we root for?" is crap and a smokescreen. The real argument is about who is building an easier remote control and more attractive cases. These are the things that matter to consumers. Points like which format is supported are moot because the machines will eventually support all the formats.
yours is an appropriate nick (Score:5, Informative)
On the other hand, that same one offers a more advanced technology... although probably too soon and too expensive.
We have quite an unpredictable match in front of us, with many variables... provider partnership, manufacturer partnership, success/failure of the PS3, user need for HD, HD-TV penetration...
It's not farfetched to think HD-DVD could be dominant for some time, then Blu-Ray later... or not, if it was perceived as a loser and went belly up.
Re:yours is an appropriate nick (Score:3, Informative)
I keep hearing this repeated, but can find no basis for it in fact.
Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray use the same wavelength of blue light. Both require a second laser in order to support DVDs. Both do support DVDs. Even if one needed a lot more of a DVD drive built in, considering that DVD drives are about $20 retail these days it would be a tiny cost addition.
The only thing backwar
Re:yours is an appropriate nick (Score:3, Informative)
Re:yours is an appropriate nick (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:yours is an appropriate nick (Score:2)
Re:yours is an appropriate nick (Score:4, Informative)
I may be wrong though. But for sure, the expensive part in a DVD player is certainly not the laser.
Re:This whole argument is so fucking stupid (Score:1)
Re:This whole argument is so fucking stupid (Score:2)
This could become true. Or maybe not. It strongly depends on a technical point: Can the hardware to do both be integrated into one apparatus cheaply? Apparently for DVD-R vs DVD+R the answer is yes.
Re:This whole argument is so fucking stupid (Score:2)
"The future is in the 'data stream' online and anyone who hasn't realized it, is still working off a 1995 market analysis."
So you want to transfer HD-DVD content online for a 2 hour movie? Do you have and idea how much information that is, and how long that would take and how insecure it is to the movie industry? Apparently not.
Please enlighten me (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Please enlighten me (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Please enlighten me (Score:1, Insightful)
And what kind of DRM are we talking about anyway?
if it's calling home, thats not going to happen because a hell of a lot of people don't even have net connection. that would kill any format from becoming the defacto standard
if it's multi region locks, some countries deem it anti competitive and make it legal to work around them.
if it's encryption of the video then you only need something to grab the outputted image and transfer to anoth
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Please enlighten me (Score:2)
Microsoft has made the argument for mandatory managed copy in HD-DVD: Backup copies. HDD storage. Home network distribution. Low-res downloads to portable devices. That defines Fair Use for the user who is not uploading DVDs to share with ten million of his closest friends on the P2P nets.
When you have $2000 to $25,000 invested in home theater projection and sound you want HD content from the majors. Serenity is the appetizer, not th
Re:Please enlighten me (Score:2)
bull***t, fair use involves "me" choosing the format i want to view my video media on.. and that format better not include apple or microsoft proprietary codecs or encryption because I have a tendency to use a lot of
Re:Please enlighten me (Score:2)
The Sony effect... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The Sony effect... (Score:2)
UMD only had the PSP (Score:3, Insightful)
Sony is aiming for the blu-ray being much more universal and maintream. Not only will blu-ray run on the ps3 but it will also run on standard setup blu-ray machines made by sony and other companies.
The UMD's weren't supported by other portable viewing machines by Sony or any other companies.
Re:The Sony effect... (Score:3, Insightful)
Note: My family had a PS2 before we had a DVD player. We bought DVDs to play on the PS2. Same with other people I knew, both local and on the net.
People who say "PS2 didn't push DVD forward" are the kinda people who went out and bought a DVD player the moment they hit the market.
Enough speculation already! (Score:4, Insightful)
Beta all over again (Score:5, Informative)
I don't watch TV, I watch DVDs instead - probably 20+ movies per month via Netflix. I don't have cable/satellite.
I have a HD tv that I've been dying to see HD output on, and have an income level such that I could buy an HD DVD player without really batting an eye financially.
But you know what? Until it seems to be resolved which HD format is going to finally be THE ONE that the market settles on, I'm not buying any hardware. Furthermore, since I'm not buying hardware, I'm not signing up for the Netflix HD-DVD service so I'm (microscopically) reducing immediate demand for HD DVD.
Congratulations you bunch of selfish, greedy, dumbasses. Your pissing match over 'whose format is better' is no doubt causing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of otherwise early-adopters like myself to wait to spend our cash on your equipment.
BRILLIANT.
Re:Beta all over again (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Beta all over again (Score:2)
Judging by how the studio backings are shaping up, it's likely there won't be the One True Format this time. Both formats will ship, and unless the PS3 sells way better than expected, market share is going to be 60/40 one way or the other. Either Blu-Ray will ride the success of the PS3 and take over the world (unlikely), or both formats will succeed. Expect wide availability
Re:Beta all over again (Score:1)
Yeah, I'd be pretty pissed-off too
</joke>
* I was going by your lowish ID.
Re:Beta all over again (Score:2)
Oh, and none of the launch titles are exactly tempting me.
Personally, I have a $150 upscaling DVD player, which looks just great, and is what I'll be using until this mess sorts itself out one way or another.
Re:Beta all over again (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm 35, have a 1080p display, and watch regular broadcast TV on it. I *buy* 2-3 DVDs a month (I like having them on display). My wife and I watch about 1 a week. Over-the-air HDTV isn't for us since we have sporadic viewing habits and don't want to get a PVR.
I will *not* get either blu-ray or HD-DVD until the format war is over. I also will likely not buy either one unless there is some hope that I can rip the movies to my computer.
My daughter has already destroyed the original copies of a cou
Re:Beta all over again (Score:2)
Just get an HTPC. Swap out appropriate drive as the time comes. Reduces your cost dramatically and allows early adoption without the pain.
Re:Beta all over again (Score:2)
No, it's not Beta vs. VHS again (Score:2)
A better analogy here is the DVD-R vs. DVD+R format war (which, if the "war" was any indicator, the consumer ultimately wins by having the formats competing with eachother on prices). I strongly suspect we'll see a price war on software (that is, HD movies) if bo
just speculation (Score:3, Informative)
Re:just speculation (Score:2)
End of story.
(atleast for me)
Re:just speculation (Score:1)
If the VHS/Betamax story told us anything, it was that the technological differences matter little, and market traction is the deciding factor. (Well, at least as long as the technologies are on approx. the same level and price...).
News flash... (Score:2, Insightful)
The early adopters are the losers (Score:1)
Will it really matter? (Score:2)
Re:Will it really matter? (Score:1)
Blu-Ray Will Win (Score:5, Informative)
First, the PS3 absolutely will drive adoption. PS3 will probably sell 10 million units within two years.
Second, Blu-Ray has already had every major studio but one (Universal I think) commit to releasing content on Blu-Ray. HD-DVD still has three or four studios to convince to support its format.
Besides, Microsoft really likes HD-DVD...what more reason do you need to root for Blu-Ray? ;-)
(As an aside, I thought the fit Microsoft threw when it found out Blu-Ray software was going to be Java was pretty funny...)
Re:Blu-Ray Will Win (Score:1)
So why is it that there are already a bunch of films either lined up for release in the couple of months, and even one or two already appearing on shelves, that I want to watch in HD, but Blu-Ray don't have anything other than rubbish officially announced?
Re:Blu-Ray Will Win (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Blu-Ray Will Win (Score:2)
Re:Blu-Ray Will Win (Score:2)
Besides, Microsoft really likes HD-DVD...what more reason do you need to root for Blu-Ray?
It's not that there is are many reasons to root for HD-DVD, just that there are many more reasons to root against another Sony proprietory format. Oh, and not let's forget Sony's complete disregard for other peoples property by installing root kits.
Re:Blu-Ray Will Win (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Blu-Ray Will Win (Score:3, Insightful)
First, the PS3 absolutely will drive adoption. PS3 will probably sell 10 million units within two years.
The game console as media player makes sense only if you have very limited space and budget. That is not the American HD market.
HD-DVD still has three or four studios to convince to support its format.
But even Disney is wavering. 15 GB HD-DVD disks are marketable now. Cheaper players and a 45 GB disk are serious threat to Blu-Ray.
Microsoft really likes HD-DVD...what mor
NO IT WON'T! (Score:2, Interesting)
HD DVD does have good studio support. Read into it, you'll see that most will release to it (except perhaps Sony). There will be tons of great titles to watch regardless.
Blu-Ray's only real advantage was bigger discs - yet they can't manufacture 2 layer discs yet! Now add a "DVD compatibility layer" and you'd need 3 layers to really have 2 for high def, adn I can't manage to do that anytime soon seeing how
Re:NO IT WON'T! (Score:2)
Until someone comes out with a GUI authoring tool for BD-J (think DVD Studio Pro) or an iHD-to-BD-J compiler. Think about it: anything you can express in declarative XML can be automatically converted to equivalent Java bytecode.
Not to mention that the burna
my next purchace (Score:2)
I know that there are differnt lasers and lenses but so what.
Completely Different Scenario (Score:3, Interesting)
Need HDTV first (Score:1)
Both formats are disadvantaged to the mass populace until HDTV's *themselves* become commonplace.
Re:Need HDTV first (Score:2)
How I'll choose... (Score:2)
For the record, Holographic Versatile Disc sounds quite a bit superior; if only it were ready now. And I hate all that DRM crap -- we'd all benefit if some Asian companies got together and presented an open, extensible, non-DRM media disc. Even if I was stuck buying Chinese, Bollywood, and independent films for the first few years, I'd support it.
Re:How I'll choose... (Score:2)
Goblet of Fire grossed $290 million in its American theatrical release. For an Asian OEM selling HD product in the West, this is the market.
Don't underestimate the dark horse. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Don't underestimate the dark horse. (Score:2)
I guess by "you" you don't mean me since I cited 10-20. Even hour long shows like Desperate Housewives tend to complete in about 20 minutes.
"a regular DVD takes too long"
I can torrent a regular DVD image in about two hours or so on my DSL line provided it's relatively popular DVD.
"HD content is out of the question"
Hence the "happy medium" I mentioned. We can probably get something of reasonable quality for an HDTV to fit into a format that can be downloaded overnigh
Re:Don't underestimate the dark horse. (Score:2)
Try a decently encoded H.264 file. It makes it quite feasible to have a typical movie on one CD, and in HD on one DVD. You do not need to download, you can st
Doesn't Matter (Score:2)
Now I've been following the articles but I'm not much of a mathematician so I'll have to leave it up to others to work on breaking the encryption. I'm sure it's doable given enough people and a l
Blu-ray is walking dead (Score:3)
Plus, the simple fact is, Sony has never successfully launched a media format. BetaMax, MiniDisc, SuperAudio, UMD, MediaStick, and now BR-DVD you name it, if Sony had a hand it its development, it failed, most of the times miserably.
I think that both next generation DVD's will face serious lack of adoption as there just isn't any pressing need for consumers to upgrade their systems. But of the two formats, Sony doesn't have the reputation for making it work, and HD-DVD will become the next generation standard.
What will mark the success of this format is the first camp to offer a recordable PC drive. If Sony gets a Blu-Ray rewritable DVD drive before an HD-DVD, then I might change my story. But I doubt that will happen considering Sony is still struggling to define the format for read only drives.
I think Sony truthfully delayed the PS3 because they are uncertain if Blu-Ray will succeed. If they can't sell BR-DVD players and BR-DVD movies in the next 6 months, why release the PS3 with the failed Blu-Ray technology.
I have nothing against Sony, and look forward to the PS3, but I think in the long run I would put my money on ANY non-Sony inspired digital media. It just makes common sense.
CD and DVD (Score:2)
So of the 3 most popular formats used in home video/audio now. The only one sony didn't ahve a hand on at launch is vhs.
Satire inside... (Score:2)
Just like my BetaMax, my Sony Memory Stick, and my Star Wars Galaxies Jedi they destroyed to turn the game over to a 10yr old audience....
Of course I also enjoy the rootkits they make, that is always nice and consumer confidence building.
Sony will do well in Japan, but don't look for it to happen in the US, and the PS3 is not the media transition for Blu-Ray adoption.
I have
Re:Satire inside... (Score:2)
And while the price of the PS3 will probably hurt initial sales to the same demographics this go-around, rest assured there will still be a fair portion of sales that will be for the same reasons.
Re:Satire inside... (Score:2)
True, but the past does not ALWAYS predict the future.
This is several years later, and MOST University require Laptops, and most laptops have DVDs.
Just as they will have HD DVD before long as well. You will have better luck as a student getting mommy and daddy to get the laptop with the HD DVD player built in rather than spend another 400 bucks for a PS3.
It would also let you save
PUH-Lease (Score:1)
or will they both lose to plain old DVD? (Score:4, Insightful)
HDTV quality would be great, but not if we have to pay $1000s for an HDTV that might not be "compatible" (read, DRM capable), and another premium for a special player. Especially annoying when a $100 computer monitor is more than capable of displaying content at HDTV resolution. Then we get to pay lots more money to "upgrade" our libraries from DVD to a format we may not be able to back up or play at full resolution thanks to all the DRM crap. And we won't be able to skip the commercials. Is any ordinary Joe not going to see these problems? Not after the first ones to try it get burned and word spreads. The studios think we're all that stupid? DVD is good enough. I bet the negatives of DRM and price will more than offset the positives of higher quality video, and this will lose out the way Laserdisc did to VHS.
Re:or will they both lose to plain old DVD? (Score:2)
HD video content is the exact opposite -- even the least technically adept person with no interest in the content can see the huge visual dif
Re:or will they both lose to plain old DVD? (Score:2)
Um yes?
I take it you dont visit chinatown very much.
Re:or will they both lose to plain old DVD? (Score:2)
Personally I think that the PS3 might have a shot at driving acceptance of Blu-Ray (and I certainly hope it does since I prefer it over HD-DVD), but that's yet to be seen.
One of the more problematic ideas though is something that really could have h
Re:or will they both lose to plain old DVD? (Score:2)
I still use it. Nobody can see the different in a 90min movie between the SVCD and DVD version. CDs are still cheaper.
Bullshit. HDTVs are below $500, and every one made in the past few y
Translation (Score:1)
Three people will have blue ray players, the other seven people who have a hd player will have HD-DVD.
The interest for these seems to hardly be there. I know I won't be buying one any time soon due to all the drm crap they force on you.
Sony Stock (Score:2, Interesting)
You mean people still get movies on discs? (Score:2)
Re:You mean people still get movies on discs? (Score:2)
2. Not important, afterall you said you don't care about owning discs so why do you care if you can make a copy right now of them?
3. blu-ray has exactly the same capabilities.
4. xbox 360 doesn't have an hddvd player. They aren't region free, its just that the regions are wider.
The quality of downloadable ripped films is complete crap unless you get the iso's of the real dvd. But by the time you have downloaded it you
Can we get a "DVD Formats" category? (Score:2)
As another Slashdot poster said in a previous article, the media machine will make sure the buzz for the new formats will only increase... after all, if everyone's talking about them, they must be worth purchasing, right?
Well, I find this topic deeply uninteresting, and would be that much happier if I could avoid the upcoming flood of BluHD-DVDRay articles (what's this doing under games, anyway?).
And yes, this is the first and last time I'll post complaining abou
The Edge is Zero (Score:2)
Imagine someone came up with a console that plays XBox360 and PS3 games (let's ignore for this moment, or forever (your preference), the legal issues around it). What console would you buy? A 360? A PS3? Or the one that plays both?
And what games would you buy? PS3 games? 360 g
I'll buy the 1st one that... (Score:2, Insightful)
neither (Score:2)
The switch from VHS to DVD was very similar to the switch from Tape to CD.
The switch from DVD to BluRay/HD-DVD will be the same as the switch from CD to DVDAudio... it just ain't going to happen.
Re:neither (Score:2)
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:4, Informative)
I did and still do. When I left my parents, I took my PS2 along with the rest of my stuff. Living in rented accomodation with no living room meant I had to watch TV on my 15in portable. I had a games console which conveniently doubled up as a DVD player. 4 years later I still see no reason to get a stand alone player while I still have my PS2 and eventually a PS3.
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:3, Interesting)
--
Seriously though, I see the market for the High Defination DVDs as something which is better than normal DVD. The makers are going to be charging premium prices for a while. Not having seen either of these two formats I venture a guess and say in order to see a substantial benefit in quality you are also going to have the other componenant which is a very good television. The people who have these don't mind spending
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:1)
Myself, I have owned an HDTV for almost a year now and only receive about a dozen channels (HDNET, HD Discovery, HD HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, HD PBS, etc.) - through Digital Broadband Cable and broadcast. I also l
Uh, not at $500-$1000 for players (Score:2)
Here's one:
http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest= 5&item=333226&pCatg=1338 [samsclub.com]
$1500-$1700 for a new game system (if the ps3 is over 700, sony has forfeited the race), hd player, and tv. Or $1500-$2000 for just the tv and a hd player.
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:2)
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:2)
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:2)
Most non-technical adults with children have standalone DVD players even though their video game systems play DVDs.
The real factors to watch are affordability, availability of titles, and compatibility with TVs.
UMD was too pricey (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:2)
Sony still have a chance to retrieve the situation.
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:1)
Anyway, at the end of the day it is just a marketing tool to shift more SKUs.
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:2)
I wouldn't have any problem whatsoever using the PS3
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:1)
Re:PS3 is irrelevent (Score:3, Insightful)
Plenty. Besides, how many people had a DVD player before the PS2 launched? (1997 vs 2000) Now how many will have an HD DVD player before the PS3 launches...?
Manfacturing Costs (Score:2)
Its also a question of creating volume sales of Blu-Ray drives and discs via sales of PS3's and its games on the discs that in the long run will make individual drives cheaper to run.
Re:HD-DVD Is Dead (Score:2)
Re:HD-DVD Is Dead (Score:1)
When they asked how the movies could be viewed without HDMI in x360 he said a mysterious : "All I can say to you is -- there are interesting developments
External HD DVD Drive (Score:2)
Throw in the fact that sony manufactures almost all of the main chips or will soon (they are setting up to manufacture cell without ibm and the graphics chip nvidia designed if the factories aren't already up) and their own drives quite unlike microsoft who has to buy almost all parts of their machine from different
Re:Oh yeah, because Sony has such a great vision (Score:2)
MemoryStick - Alright format... you can buy them, and readers, in any tech shop. Don't see what the problem is.
MiniDisc - Major success in Japan, moderate success in Europe... but flopped in the US. So what? The US is not "the world". (ZOMG!!!) I had a MD player/recorder, and I loved it. (Then my brother broke it, like he breaks everything.)