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Wiki to Help Solve Millennium Problems? 232

MattWhitworth writes "A new wiki has been set up over at QEDen to try to gather a community to solve the Millennium Problems. The problems are seven as yet unsolved mathematical problems that continue to vex researchers today. What do you think of this effort? Will gathering a community of people help solve problems such as P=NP, or do you think it requires a lot more than a semi-qualified community to approach the problem?"
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Wiki to Help Solve Millennium Problems?

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  • Re:Please. . . (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15, 2006 @12:51PM (#15135800)
    Scientist != Mathematician. Vonnegut would certainly never have suggested that they are equal.

    A scientist's work needs to touch on reality at some point. If a scientist doesn't understand why he's doing what he's doing clearly enough to tell an eight year old, then he's lost touch with the purpose of research. Even pure scientific research is explicable. "I'm trying to find out how quickly certain bits of the stuff we're made of stick to each other." At least, that's Vonnegut's contention there. An eight year old won't ask "Why are you spending my tax dollars on this?" so a simple answer will do.

    Mathematicians have no such fallback. When studying fourier transformations or the normality of a decimal expansion, the concepts involved touch on our experience nowhere. You could stretch a point and pretend that the point of your fourier research is to fit more songs on her ipod, but you're probably lying there. Some fourier research did that, but yours won't necessarily result in better compression... and that's not actually what you're trying to do. You're no engineer.

    Even though I majored in Pure Mathematics, I'm aware that there are mathematicians doing work the very existence of which I'm not educated enough to understand. Any very specialized branch of mathematics forms its own little universe. A very advanced mathematician, asked about his work, will say "You know about the existence of Tupper manifolds? Well it turns out that if their order is prime, they're non-haussman. I'm trying to figure out if non-tupper manifolds are all hausmann or not." (That's all made up, of course.)

    Scientists may use mathematics, but science and mathematics are very different fields.
  • Re:solid approach (Score:5, Informative)

    by illuminatedwax ( 537131 ) <stdrange@nOsPAm.alumni.uchicago.edu> on Saturday April 15, 2006 @12:52PM (#15135805) Journal
    Because social constructs already exist for current research. People don't sit in ivory towers thinking about this stuff by themselves - they go to conferences, write papers, send emails, and yes, even make wikis.

    This is going to become an instructional site to teach people (hopefully correctly) what is going on in these fields, nothing more.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15, 2006 @12:53PM (#15135812)
    In a sense, the Online Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences [att.com], hosted by AT&T Research, does this job already.

    With over 100,000 web pages, searchable, with posters' email addresses given, and both internal and external hotlinks and citations to hardcopy literature, this has been the leading collaborationware in Mathematics. The Online Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences (or OEIS) recently faced a problem with increasing numbers of clueless postings.

    The distinguished panel of editors, under Dr. Neil J. A. Sloane, first added a keyword of "probation." Submissions so tagged, unless okayed by an editor, are deleted after a reasonable time. At my urging, citing the history of Slashdot, they even more recently adopted the keyword "less" -- meaning less than interesting, but better than probation. "Less" sequences stay in the database, but are given minimum priority in searches.

    Similarly, MathWorld [wolfram.com] is a form of collaborationware or pseudowiki. Although edited by Dr. Eric W. Weisstein and his staff, it encourages submission by form from anyone, and posts attribution to such submissions, and lists of contributors.

    I contend that web-based systems have substantially affected the practice of Mathematics. Social mechanisms such as pioneered by Slashdot contribute to weeding out useless from interesting contributions. As with Wikipedia, one's academic credentials mean nothing here. What matters is the quality of one's submissions, as evaluated by one's online peers.

    There also many fine Math blogs, but that's another topic.

    -- Jonathan Vos Post [livejournal.com]
  • Re:P vs NP Question (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anthony Liguori ( 820979 ) on Saturday April 15, 2006 @01:29PM (#15135933) Homepage
    At first glance, I'm not sure HOW this is an "unsolvable" problem. Would I not just select and group 100 students at random then rearrange the pairs as I found incompatibilities? Can someone clue me in to what I'm missing here?

    What makes a problem NP is not whether it's solvable but rather how long it takes to solve. The algorithm you propose is a search algorithm. Consider what would happen if your list of incompatible students was so large that within the group of 100 students you randomly choose, there is not a single possible arrangement of pairs. This means you would have to choose another group of 100 students. It's a minor refinement but an important one.

    Now consider if that list was so large that there was only a single possible group of 100 that contains an arrangement of pairs that worked. Now consider that within that group of 100, there was only one good possible arrangement. If you're very unlucky, and you choose these set of 100 and arrangement of pairs last, you have to try every possible combination before finding the right one. Okay, so what?

    Lets see how many possible answers you'd have to try. Within a group of 100 students, there are 100 choose 2 possible arrangements. There are 400 choose 100 possible choices of 100 students. n choose k is really n! / (k! (n-k)!) where n! is n * (n - 1) * ... * 1. Since we're trying every possible combination, this gives us:

    [400! / (100! 300!)] * [100! / (2! 98!)]

    Your standard calculator is not going to be able to solve this one but if you have an arbitrary precision calculator (like bc), you get:

    11097181218193970931519891416648407846484785328507 66515247971418153526438677698477539372878051288400 0

    Which is an awfully large number. That number is so large, in fact, that even if you have a computer that could check one possible solution with every electron in the universe, until the Sun supernova's, you'd still not find the answer.

    Now, that depends on really bad luck. You can construct problems though that given average luck, you would not find the solution in the lifetime of the universe. This is what cryptography is based on.

    Compare this to a standard sorting algorithm. To sort the list [3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 2, 1, 0] given a crappy algorithm like bubble sort requires n*n = 100 computations. You can solve this problem the same way using search though. You merely have to randomly arrange the list in every possible way and check to see if your random arrangement is sorted. There are n! possible arrangements of a list of n elements so there are 10! = 3628800 possible answers to search. You can see that even a crappy algorithm like bubble sort is much better than search.

    The difference is even greater with larger lists. A problem that is only solvable via search is considered NP. A problem that is solvable with an algorithm in polynomial time (n*n is a polynomial) is considered P. The N in NP stands for non-polynomial.

    So the problem here is whether there exists a polynomial solution for these set of problems that we've labelled NP. What makes this even more significant is that it has been proven that if we find a polynomial solution for one NP problem, we can create solutions for any NP problem. A lot is riding on the lack of existence of a polynomail solution for NP problems. If someone where to prove that there are indeed polynomial solutions to NP problems it would be earth-shattering. After the initial shock, it would also open up a whole new world of mathematics since a lot of things we didn't think were possible to do efficiently became possible.
  • Re:Feces (Score:2, Informative)

    by Lorenzarius ( 765215 ) on Saturday April 15, 2006 @02:01PM (#15136053)
    The result of the experiment: Notes Towards the Complete Works of Shakespeare [vivaria.net].

    And the slashdot story [slashdot.org].

  • by wpegden ( 931091 ) on Saturday April 15, 2006 @02:55PM (#15136133)
    I think people need an informal definition of NP. Here it goes: A decision problem is a yes/no question. A decision problem is in P if we can solve it in polynomial time. Example: is n divisble by 3? The length of the input to the algorithm is log n (the number of binary digits in n). We can divide a number by 3 in quadratic time in the length of the input. So we can certainly decide in essentially (log n)^2 steps if n is divisible by 3. (log n)^2 is a polynomial (of degree 2) in the length of the input to the algorithm (log n). So this decision problem in in P. Consider another decision problem: is n composite? It's not obvious how to quickly determine if a large number is composite, short of trying all possible divisors up to the square root of n. The square root of n is exponential in the length of the input (log n) so this does not give a polynomial time algorithm. On the other hand, if someones else knows the factorization of n, they can tell you the factorization, and you can quickly use it to check that n is composite (by multiplying the factors together). THIS means that this decision problem is NP: if the answer is yes, there is a (short) "witness" that, if someone tells you the witness, lets you check in polynomial time that the answer is yes. It turns out that this second problem is actually in P as well--that is, you can solve this problem without the witness. This was proved in 2002, and is not simple at all. If P=NP, then this would always be true: anything you can solve quickly with the right witness can be solved without the witness. Proving P!=NP amounts to proving that there is some problem in NP which cannot be solved in polynomial time. There are many problems in NP known to be at least as hard as all the rest (called NP-complete), so if P!=NP, these can't be solved in polynomial time. Now, you just need to prove this...
  • by Unruhe ( 714319 ) on Sunday April 16, 2006 @01:34PM (#15138672)
    If you think that you have a solution to any of the Millennium Problems, no matter how good you may think that solution is, please do not contact the Clay Institute directly. You will be answered by two sardonic secretaries who are weary of such claims and will only use your communique in their pursuit of the Clay Institute Drinking Game:

    If someone claims to have a solution to ALL 7 problems - Drink!

    If someone claims that P vs NP is an Algebra problem or tries to factor P out of NP - Drink!

    If someone claims that they need notarized assurances that the Clay Institute is prestigious enough for THEIR solution - Drink!

    If someone claims that they need time on the Institute Supercomputer because solving one of the Millennium Problems is part of their Mission, A Mission From God - CHUG!

    If you are at all serious about your solution to these problems, you will pursue them in a better manner then trying to find back channel entry into academia. You can start by actually getting a degree in Mathematics and learning that the Maths community already has ways and means to consider and judge any solution you think you have. Trust me on this one, I've seen the underside to their tables.

    Unruhe

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