Boot Camp Flaw Leaves Some Users Fuming

Karl Cocknozzle writes "Some users who chose to install Apple's recent beta-offering of Boot Camp without basic precautions (like a full backup) have found themselves unable to boot their Macs to OS X. In a discussion thread on Apple's technical support Web site, more than a dozen users reported that Boot Camp successfully partitioned their hard drive and allowed them to install a working version of Windows, but then would no longer allow them to switch back. The download-agreement page for Boot Camp contains the explicit warning that Boot Camp is still 'Beta' software, and would not be supported if problems arose. On the whole, it sounds like the number of affected users is quite small, but may reflect a common lack of knowledge of what a 'beta' release really is: Not ready for prime-time."

And this make the news?

[WebHostingGuy]

While it is interesting . . . but if you have ever tried dual booting with Windows the first couple of times you always find out that Windows will boot and the other operating system is screwed up. I mean seriously - when has dual booting with Windows "ever" worked out of the box? It seeks always to dominate and does not ever like to share.

And people, people, please figure out what a beta is... sheesh.

Please read before you install..

[kupekhaize]

For the rest of the people that did not bother reading the fine print, it is also recommended that you make a firmware restoration cd [apple.com] before you install the firmware update that makes boot camp work. Otherwise, you could leave your computer in an unbootable state.

At least with these guys they have the option of doing an erase and install to restore their software to the way it was before. Some people are not able to boot their computers any more without using the firmware restore CD.

Please, please, please, before trying this type of stuff, RTFM...

Google's Fault

[chunews]

Really, this is Google's fault for releasing a series of very well understood, usable, secure, nearly flawless applications all under the "Beta" name!

Partitioning

[Universal Indicator]

I just got my Intel iMac yesterday, and I installed Boot Camp and Windows on it. I am willing to be that what happened was these users didn't know what they were doing. When you use Boot Camp to install XP, Windows exposes the entire partition table when you are installing, which includes a couple of small system partitions. Chances are these users didn't understand that those partitions were necessary and they deleted them while they were installing Windows. It's not Windows' fault, it's ID10T error.

Alternative theory...

[hackwrench]

Elsewhere [com.com] it was conjectured that these people had actually installed Windows XP over OS X.

We Windows users...

[Anonymous Coward]

See we Windows users are used to buggy code and have trained ourselves to prepare for such disasters with proper backups, etc.

I guess this is unchartered territory for maccys.

Re:Well...

[Scoria]

I attribute this largely to the dilution of the term itself, personally. The introduction of Web 2.0 seems to have convinced many users that "beta" now indicates that production quality software has arrived, but the developer would rather not be held liable for defects. It is quickly becoming shorthand for "use at your own risk."

Maybe Apple should have referred to Boot Camp as alpha software.

Beta with no backups?

[grasshoppa]

Someone should go to their door and kick them squarely in the nuts for being idiots.

It's BETA folks, means it might break things. Back up your data if you absolutely must play with it.

Hell, back up your data anyway.

Re:Well...

[niskel]

Then Alpha would eventually be the new and hip Beta. If we constantly adapt the meaning of the words, they effectively become meaningless. If it is Alpha call it Alpha; if it is Beta call it Beta but if it Beta don't call it Alpha.

Google

[Frosty Piss]

On the whole, it sounds like the number of affected users is quite small, but may reflect a common lack of knowledge of what a 'beta' release really is: Not ready for prime-time.

And we can put this squarely at Google's feet for perverting the meaning of "Beta". Honestly.

Sure, users need to take some responsibility for their actions, and having a clue. But the idea that beta bight be buggy but still basically works just fine is a direct result of Google's perpetual Betaware.

They're idiots...

[tktk]

First, Boot Camp is beta software. Second, non-destructive partitioning seems to work only if you're lucky. Making a backup is a basic precaution and it's your own fault if ignore it.

I installed BootCamp on my MBP with lots of free space on the HD. It killed my OS X partition. But I didn't lose anything since I had made a backup. I lost an hour of time but that was it.

Course, now that most things are released as beta software, we should probably think of a new term to really mean beta. People seem to treat beta as 1.0 releases and get mad when things go wrong.

Beta is not always a clear term...

[MadAnalyst]

It's no wonder people are confused. Beta doesn't seem to mean "testing" any longer, it just means great product with a greek letter attached. Or at least that is what I have learned by surfing around at Google.

Bootcamp worked flawlessly for me...

[ingoldsby]

Didn't mess up my OSX install, windows works great (runs TES 4 Oblivion just fine @ 1680x1050 with HDR turned off).. I wonder if some of these users didn't pay attention to what partition they were installing Windows on...

Re:And this make the news?

[Ohreally_factor]

You don't think it would have anything to do with Boot Camp's partitioning function? The Windows installer isn't beta, but the boot camp and the partitioning function certainly are.

I enjoy slamming on MS as much as the next guy, but lets at least be realistic about where the problem most likely lies.

I actually blame...

[vhold]

Apple's slick boot camp website [apple.com]

This is not the layout or speak of a piece of beta software. It is a marketting page.

The top titles are:

"Macs do Windows, too"
"As elegant as it gets"
"Included Amenities"

Ubuntu dual-boot whiner, where art thou?

[Fallingcow]

Where's the dude who always bitches that Ubuntu is a horrible, horrible distro because it "made his machine inaccessable"--that is, he was a dumbass and didn't backup, plus he was beligerant toward those in the community who tried to help, plus he lacks the basic knowledge to install ANY OS, let alone try a dual-boot Linux/Windows installation.

Maybe if he reads this, he'll realize that things can ALWAYS go wrong when installing a second OS, even on the reputedly uber-stable and very homogenous Mac platform. It's a process that should be reserved for those who are either very knowledgable or very cautious, if not both. Maybe he'll stop popping up in nearly every Ubuntu thread, re-telling his stupid story.

I'm not holding out much hope.

Re:And this make the news?

[deadlinegrunt]

Really? As opposed to any other *nix distros that uses lilo or grub? Or do you mean that you DO NOT have to install Windows first THEN your other non-windows operating systems? Curious what makes SuSE stand out in this instance. Windows has always been a pain in regard to playing nice with anything non-windows it touches - and this isn't a group think /. moronic troll, just the simple truth...Like installing Windows AFTER you have some other OS installed.

Re:Well...

[dgatwood]

Yup. Alpha is defined as software that is not yet feature complete (but may still be publicly rolled out). Beta means it is feature complete but may not be thoroughly debugged yet. Production is supposed to be thoroughly debugged.

The real problem I've seen lately is companies taking glorified betas (with lots of serious bugs) and passing them off as finished products. Passing off nearly finished products as beta is just fine in my book, by comparison.

Re:Beta software is buggy?

[DavidLeblond]

What exactly do you think beta means, anyway?

"I don't think that word means what he thinks it means!"

Windows = Beta Software

[Prototerm]

Come on, people, get with the program. Anyone who uses Windows knows that *all* versions are initially released as a public Beta. It took XP until Service Pack 2 to finally come out of Beta.

So, it's perfectly understandable that someone trying to put Windows on a Mac would think Apple means the same thing as Microsoft when it says something is a "beta".

Sheesh!

Re:And this make the news?

[slamb]

back when I took software engineering the definition I was given for beta was: has major bugs but will not lose user data.

It sounds from the article like it doesn't lose data. The complaining users are saying things like this:

"This isn't a minor glitch, but a major problem. Barring erasing my drive and reinstalling OS X, I am stuck with an Apple laptop that only runs Windows," wrote a user. "I don't want solutions that entail using the command line. I would like something from Apple saying that they recognize the problem and are working on it."

There's no data loss here. He can restore the system using the commandline but won't because he refuses to learn. He shouldn't be using beta software.

Your college definition of beta is oversimplified, anyway:

• Betas are released to a wider audience than alphas. The purpose is to find problems. If no one released a beta until they were absolutely confident there's no data loss, then no one would ever release a beta.
• Sadly, some vendors [microsoft.com] release production versions of software which does destroy entire partitions. I'm still mad about Windows destroying my Linux partition [advogato.org]. There's a known bug here [microsoft.com]. In fact, my situation was different than described, and Windows still destroyed my Linux partition!

Re:B.E.T.A.

[option8]

hm. i thought it was

Backup
Everything
Then
Apply.

that's always worked for me :)

Re:priceless quotes

[Paul Rose]

It's like Apple produces a talking dog and this guy complains about its grammar.

Firmware Update, check

Dynamic Repartitioning, check

Dual Boot Windows, check

  BETA, check

and he expects it to be impossible to shoot himself in the foot somewhere along the way. Good grief.

Probably selected wong partition in the Windows (ignoring the "big bold print" in the Apple doc), which Apple simply can't prevent without modifying the Windows installer.

Apple's Boot Camp page says NOTHING about backups

[obarthelemy]

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/ [apple.com] is Apple's main page about bootcamp. It contains a detailed description of the product, and instructions about how to install it. There is NOTHING on that page about having to do a backup, or recommending to do a backup, nor, of course, about how to actually do the backup.

Actually the fact that Bootcamp is beta software is really de-emphasized on that web page. Clearly Apple's marketing department is pushing bootcamp heavily.

So what do you expect ? Dumb people don't even read the instructions, and do no backups. Intelligent people read the instructions, and do no backups. Most geeks are overconfident, and do no backups. Intelligent geeks (a small minority ;-) ) DO a backup.

I think the mess is mainly Apple's fault. They should

1- Emphasize more that Boot Camp is BETA software
2- Include the recommendation to do a backup in their install instructions, with a link to a detailed walkthrough
3- Ideally, make that backup an integral part of the install program

Computer companies have to stop assuming all their users are geeks, or that they have the right to make us take risks with our data for their marketing convenience.

I'm disappointed at Apple for that one. Apple has historically been a lot less bad than other OS makers ;-). Is the Wintel spirit already contaminating them ?

Re:I almost deleted my Mac partition.

[Suddenly_Dead]

Conditioning? I mean, that's how you make it through most installers, especially those on Windows.

Re:priceless quotes

[davek]

Barring erasing my drive and reinstalling OS X, I am stuck with an Apple laptop that only runs Windows. Any feedback? I don't want solutions that entail using the command line.

Wow. I mean this is simply an amazing convergance of computer users here. First a /. article from a mac-hack asking what's the "best windows software," then another complaining about having to use a command line! I think a lot of people are going to realize just how little they know about how computer's actually work.

Does anyone else believe that the command line will never go away? Current computers are all linear, so it makes sense that the only truely effective way to communicate with them is over a linear command line.

First page of instructions

[bradleyland]

The first page of the instructions covers all the beta and backup warnings. All they need to do is place this information somewhere on the product information page:

"Warning: Boot Camp Beta is preview software licensed for use on a trial basis for a limited time. Do not use Boot Camp Beta in a commercial operating environment or with important data. You should back up all of your data before installing this software and regularly back up data while using the software. Your rights to use Boot Camp Beta are subject to acceptance of the terms of the software license agreement that accompanies the software."

Backup is part of daily computer use. Those without an automated backup solution are those who will lose data, whether they're re-partitioning, or they experience a hardware failure. That's just the way it goes.

Re:Partitioning

[sco08y]

It's not Windows' fault, it's ID10T error.

You're blaming the user for file system designers not including the capacity to label partitions so users know what they are.

Of course, if we started asking ourselves why users are always getting confused by filesystems, we might start thinking that the standard hierarchical filesystem is utter crap...