ABC To Offer Full Shows Online 316
vitaly.friedman writes to mention an Ars Technica story on the ABC's newest bid to stay relevant in the Information Age. As of the end of this month the network will be airing certain popular television shows on the ABC website, starting the morning after their first broadcast. From the article: "All programs will be shown in their entirety, including commercials which cannot be avoided. That's a smart move on ABC's part, as it ensures that advertisers will get another shot at hawking their wares to an audience that might otherwise change channels during commercial breaks or fast-forward through them if recorded. Aside from being unable to avoid commercials, watching the programs will be similar to watching timeshifted content in that viewers will be able to pause, fast forward, and rewind."
Available the day after? (Score:5, Interesting)
Jim http://www.runfatboy.net/ [runfatboy.net] -- A workout plan that doesn't feel like homework.
Re:Available the day after? (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, this way they aren't stepping on revenue streams for their local affliates. (Who may be able to show some local ads during the regular broadcast. Or at least share revenue.)
What you are talking about is a whole different business model. It could well work, but I wouldn't want to give up a currently working business model to try it.
Re:Available the day after? (Score:4, Interesting)
How is this a whole new business model? Sounds like the same old same old to me...
Now I'll admit I'm not much of a TV watcher anyway, but I'm not particularly interested in web-content that turns my PC into a small, lo-res television complete with 16 minutes of ads per hour. What's new about that???
What would be cool is if the site remembers exactly where I was when I last watched. Dynamically generate a short recap of my last session to remind me of the highlights of what I last watched. Allow me to link to excerpts from previous episodes when they're alluded to. Maybe even have a writer's forum where they can go deeper into background and get feedback from the audience as the show unfolds.
Just using TCP/IP instead of cable or radio waves doesn't begin to constitute a new business model.
Re:Available the day after? (Score:3, Interesting)
This way they can test to see if they can actually make
Re:Available the day after? (Score:5, Interesting)
If any TV provider wants to re-gain my custom, then they will have to provide an ad-free delivery system. I don't mind paying for what I watch (although I do prefer a fixed fee, watch whatever you like system), but I do object to wasting my time.
Re:Available the day after? (Score:3, Interesting)
As to the article, if they allow you to "fast forward" doesn't that let you avoid most of the commercials? Or have they figured out how to block the fast forward when a commercial is playing?
Re:Available the day after? (Score:3, Informative)
I have seen this being done with some regular shows (such as "Thief") as a PPV event, 2 or 3 days before the normal airing time. Can't say there is any show I'm that anxious to see that I would actually pay money to see it early. Maybe some TF'ers would.
Re:Available the day after? (Score:2)
They should have done it with Rescue Me or Nip/Tuck. Even Thief, being new, doesn't have the viewership to warrant a test like that. On a personal note, I'm trying to like Thief, I really am -- but it's too much drama and not enough action.
Sopranos (Score:2)
I also wonder if the streaming media will be sufficently available for people to watch on their microsoft mce or myth/freevo boxes.
Cannot? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Cannot? (Score:5, Insightful)
After all the customer is always right, and with all media (google included) you have to remember that the advertiser is the customer t and you the viewer is the product being sold.
Re:Cannot? (Score:2)
Re:Cannot? (Score:2)
Be that as it may, no one can honestly think that any network will, or should be expected to, offer their content ad free in the net. I think what ABC is doing is awesome....
I think the RIAA etc go overboard on some stuff, but this isn't an example of that.
Honestly- anyone who thinks that a network should produce a super expensive show and then give it away has no understanding of th
Re:Cannot? (Score:2)
Remember you're under an NDA!
Re:Cannot? (Score:2, Interesting)
That's what I'd like to know! The article doesn't state the technology used to view the programs. My guess is it's embedded Windows Media. Maybe they allow you to fast forward through the program, but when the commercials air, you cann ff/rw? Most news Web sites that offer video content make you watch a 30s spot that you cannot ff though. Then the "free" video airs.
I wonder if the com
Two words: (Score:2)
Re:Cannot? (Score:5, Interesting)
Um, yes?
It's very easy. Encode the video in Flash and do a php call so the file name is never revealed - not even the url to the directory where the file *is* is revealed. Can't be downloaded (even by workaround methods), and controls can be set in the embedded player so you can't fast-forward (my guess is the last part of the article submission is wrong - you can maybe rewind and then ff to the last point you were at in the video, but you won't be able to skip ahead).
The big video sites don't do this right now, but it is possible, and a lot of smaller sites do do it. We'll see if ABC is smart enough, but judging by the way they describe this, it sounds like they've figured it out.
I've been saying TV stations should do this exact thing for years. You want to stop "piracy" of your shows? Put them online for free. Show the ads; we know you've gotta make money. But don't force me to pay 2 bucks just because I wasn't home at the time the show was on and presumably don't have (or can't afford?) TiVo.
Now you've got a choice, at least with the bigger shows. Pay 2 bucks and watch them ad-free, or pay nothing and watch with ads. Pretty much the way it should be, if you ask me.
The only question left is what sort of quality we'll get. I mean considering HDTV is free, then ideally the online version should match that quality - but no way it will for reasons of bandwidth. Hopefully it'll at least match what you can find on file sharing sites, though... if they really are serious about doing away with that sort of thing, especially.
Re:Cannot? (Score:3, Insightful)
Not a chance they'll use this method. You can still easily find where the file is located simply by sniffing your network traffic. Security through obscurity is not the way they'll go.
More than likely they'll simply use Windows Media with it's built in DRM protections. I don't believe anyone has broken the lastest DRM from Windows Media.
Re:Cannot? (Score:2)
Well, I already see that I am wrong. They are using Flash for the video :-)
I guess we'll see how they go about locking the content. I don't know anything about the DRM features of Flash 8 video.
Re:Cannot? (Score:3, Insightful)
Hell, just put up a torrent and leave the commercials in. Most people will just download and watch the thing and then delete it. They'll pay no more and no less attention to commercials than they already do. Why make it so damn hard on peopl
Re:Cannot? (Score:3, Interesting)
Exactly. 99% of the general public will always do what's most convenient, and will trade off money for convenience. People pay $1.99 for an iTunes TV show because it's convenient. Forget the fact that they could download it or record it th
Re:Cannot? (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, I won't even consider touching the video on commercial web sites (except google). Why? Well, it's not because I'm morally opposed to downloading a video from ABC or CNN. No... it's because their video always sucks to an unbelievable degree, to the point where watching it is a nightmare. Let's consider:
... etc. The point is, the reason Bittorrent is so incredibly popular isn't because people are so excited that they can get an episode of Lost without commercials for free. They could already do that -- VCRs are old hat. The great thing about Bittorrent is that it's incredibly convenient compared to any of these pile-of-garbage corporate offerings.
And that's the problem with this ABC thing. It, like all the garbage before it, sucks. The network that created the show is going to offer a vastly inferior experience, with more hassle, than some random guys using bittorrent.
If they wanted to do something innovative, and better, they would simply have placed MPEG4 files (or torrents to keep their costs down) on their web site, with the commercials. This would have been much cheaper and easier to develop for them, and would be a better experience for their users. But of course, they never will do this, because the industry is insane.
Re:Cannot? (Score:2, Interesting)
How does this stop someone from using a proxy to capture the URL of the request? Even if the source of the stream is capable of being obscured... wouldn't a user simply be able to capture the video stream data at the client and modify it to his heart's content?
The question is...which ads? (Score:2)
I'm sure they've wanted to do it for years. The problem has always been the local affiliates. The advertising on a primetime network show consists of two parts; national advertising (sold by the network), and local advertising (sold by the affiliates). Streaming it over the web essentially cuts out the local affiliates. I gue
Re:Cannot? (Score:2, Funny)
Your bathroom, fridge and microwave, each with their own ip, will autolock their doors whenever the commercials come on.
Oh, yeah, your fridge will also autoorder everything adverstised on your credit card, for "your convenience."
Welcome to the future, brother. Enjoy.
KFG
Re:Cannot? (Score:2)
Re:Cannot? (Score:4, Informative)
More likely, enforced by the fact that you're streaming the data. While most video programs try to read ahead, the buffer likely wouldn't be more than enough to miss a single commercial.
No Commercial Skipping? (Score:3, Insightful)
What's this about not being able to skip commercials? Any commercials?
Say I want to watch just the final ten minutes of something, does that mean I must sit through SEVENTEEN minutes of commercials first before I'm "allowed" to view the ending?
No thanks. I (and everyone else, I suspect) will just wait for the Torrent.
Re:No Commercial Skipping? (Score:5, Funny)
"Say, Denise, would you pick up that Lite-On 8X dual-layer DVD burner with Linux drivers? I say, I don't feel like myself without a nice Lite-On 8X dual-layer DVD burner with Linux drivers any more."
Customer convenience (Score:2)
I think it's very smart for ABC to offer up a very easy way to watch shows via their website. The catch is that they'll likely be somewhat poor quality and you have commercials. People live with commercials now. I
Re:Customer convenience (Score:2)
When you have alt-tab'd out and have something else covering up the bud lite girls, you are still listening and therefore having your subconscious subverted.
As far as I'm concerned, there's no real reason why the stations need to be screwed over. Just make an approximate guess as to your geographical location via your IP address and splice in the local used car dealership threatening to club a baby seal if you don't buy a car from him.
Re:Customer convenience (Score:2)
Re:No Commercial Skipping? (Score:5, Informative)
Check out the press release [go.com]. They're using Flash 8 encoding to prevent it from being downloaded. Available Windows & Mac.
Episodes will be available at two resolutions, the better being 700x394 pixels at 700 kbps. I might have to start watching one of these shows just to support the effort.
no brainer indeed (Score:3, Insightful)
All programs will be shown in their entirety, including commercials which cannot be avoided.
So, basically I should still use netflix if I don't want to see commercials.
Re:no brainer indeed (Score:2)
Re:no brainer indeed (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't think commercials are going anywhere, nor should they. If you don't want to watch commercials then buy the episode off iTunes or wait and rent the season from Netflix, but if you want them for free, cer
Re:no brainer indeed (Score:2)
Absolutely. Someone will donate a back lot. Others will donate their used $250 Hi-8 camcorders and some table lamps. The local weekend actors troop will donate their time... and from that, we'll get enough free content to fill several hundred channels 365/24/7, plus feature films.
I mean, which part don't you understand?
Re:no brainer indeed (Score:2)
Commercial Skipping (Score:4, Interesting)
It can be done. How many Super Bowls have had commercials better than the game?
Re:Commercial Skipping (Score:2, Funny)
I don't know. I use my TiVo to fast forward through them. The Superbowls that is.
Re:Commercial Skipping (Score:5, Funny)
There ya go! Reunite the '85 Patriots and the '92 Bills, give them sitcoms and suddenly the commercials will look a lot better!
I'm thinking Everybody Loves Thurman Thomas...
Re:Commercial Skipping (Score:2)
Re:Commercial Skipping (Score:2)
Re:Commercial Skipping (Score:2)
Impossible. Commercials are crap, no matter how you try to dress them up. If they were something worth watching, they'd be called "content" and they'd have crappy commercials inserted into them.
It can be done. How many Super Bowls have had commercials better than the game?
That doesn't mean the commercials aren't crap. Just that the super bowl is even worse crap.
Muting the ads (Score:2)
Re:Commercial Skipping (Score:2)
I have no problem with commercials, per se. It's just that I can't stand being interrupted from a program to watch them. I'd rather the program start late and end early for the commercials to air, than to be subjected to constant interruption. FWIW, I have a Tivo and so it's not really a problem for me now, but I don't mind the commercials when aired before and after a show li
please. stfu (Score:5, Insightful)
You whiny bastard. Seriously. These companies can't do anything right, can they?
All I see here is people complaining and getting modded up for it. As far as I'm concerned this is a great step in a great direction.
I think what it boils down to is that most people here just want shit for free, and will say anything to pretend that they have some valid objection with the system and that it warrants theft (or "copyright infringement" for the pedants).
Free/opensource software falls victim to the same tripe -- people pretend that they stand by the ideologies but really just want stuff for free -- and use the ideology as a guise to pirate non-free software like photoshop or Windows.
bleh.
It's a start (Score:3, Insightful)
The bigger concern here is what will the laws say about my ripping the forced commercials out? Given the industry's history in developing copy protection schemes, this will likely be a trivial matter. Now, it's perfectly legal for me to do this with the OTA signal - will the DMCA be invoked against people who do this with the downloads?
Anyway, let's congratulate ABC on this leap of faith. I am appreciative of it, and may sit through a few of those awful shows just to support their new distribution model.
Re:It's a start (Score:2)
Re:and give it to a friend? (Score:2)
Re:It's a start (Score:2)
As would I, as this is already happening now with people who record OTA and redistribute.
However, I was thinking more along the lines of someone distributing a small program that does this for you, not the content itself. In that manner, I would be breaking the mandatory commercial scheme on my own download of the show. It seems perfectly accept
Re:It's a start (Score:3, Insightful)
Related article on CNN (Score:3, Interesting)
http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/10/news/companies/di
Re:Related article on CNN (Score:2, Interesting)
http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/10/news/companies/di
ABC is Disney.
And while we are at it... Pixar is Disney which is ABC, and Steve Jobs is Pixar, and Steve Jobs is Apple, and iTunes is Apple, and iTunes already sells some ABC shows. Interesting, no?
-bradly
Unavoidable commercials? (Score:2, Insightful)
DING DING DING! About bloody time! (Score:5, Insightful)
They're trying to embrace a new delivery medium and you these idiots are fricken complaining about it. Come on, ABC should be congratulated for thinking outside the standard line that RIAA and the MPAA have been harping on. The net will make a great delivery service and they're heading out into it full steam ahead.
But no, months ago people were saying this is what they should do, and now that they're doing it, it's not enough. Give them what they want, and you get a big "fuck you" in return.
I welcome this.
Re:DING DING DING! About bloody time! (Score:5, Insightful)
- Offer television programs as downloadable files (e.g. a nice XviD or something) with no restrictions that can be archived, traded, and/or watched at your leisure.
Here's what they did do:
- Offer televesion programs in a restricted format watchable online only as streaming videos with no opportunity to record or, apparently, skip commercials (or so it would seem from the article).
You, like the TV studios, still apparently don't "get it".
Currently the P2P networks are providing exactly what we want. That's the target the networks need to aim for. Nothing less will succeed to any significant degree.
The networks need to provide the shows (with or without commercials) at varying levels of quality (for higher or lower bandwidth users) for download (preferably as torrents) with no strings attached before they air. That would work. Anything less is like aiming for failure.
They have to take a psychological approach to this one. People like shiny and official. Package the TV shows as something you'll want to collect and archive. That will get people downloading them.
And they need to ignore the fact that there are some people who would strip out the commercials and re-share them. This is unavoidable and proven not to have a significant negative impact (e.g. music, movies).
As for commercials, here's an idea: maybe they'll have to start making commercials with the actors in the show hawking the wares. You could make mini, thirty second skits that advertize big name products like they used to do when TV was in its infancy. It could be presented as a little "slice of life" of the characters in the show. "OMG! Jack Bauer uses Crest! I should, too!"
You probably couldn't do all commercials on a network like that, but maybe for certain downloadable shows you could. People would want to watch and re-watch that because it is entertaining.
Re:DING DING DING! About bloody time! (Score:5, Insightful)
Offer television programs as downloadable files (e.g. a nice XviD or something) with no restrictions that can be archived, traded, and/or watched at your leisure.
Who the hell was saying that? That would be suicide for them if they did that.
I don't think so. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:DING DING DING! About bloody time! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:DING DING DING! About bloody time! (Score:5, Funny)
Proof positive that you can always drive your point home by inserting Eddie Van Halen guitar licks into your conversations.
Re:DING DING DING! About bloody time! (Score:2)
One thing they *could* do however is this:
1. Make the commercials interesting t
Re:DING DING DING! About bloody time! (Score:2)
2. Give you show credits towards your subscribed shows for watching them as a separate batch.
Sounds like a good idea to me! I start the commercials downloading, take a bathroom break while they play, and come back to free show credits! :)
We should be thanking ABC! (Score:2)
Re:DING DING DING! About bloody time! (Score:2)
The point that they have been "missing" is that people want to time shift
Free on iTMS, too? (Score:5, Insightful)
It'd be nice if the ad-supported version were available for free through iTMS, but that would probably require ABC to actually pay APPLE per download to cover bandwidth costs and overhead, which might be problematic.
Anyway, if Apple doesn't work out SOME kind of new deal, it seems safe to say their $2 iTMS episodes aren't gonna be selling very well anymore, except among the video iPod loyalists.
Re:Free on iTMS, too? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Free on iTMS, too? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Free on iTMS, too? (Score:3, Insightful)
The Multipass version of the Daily Show gives me 16 episodes (four weeks at four episodes per week) for $10, or $0.625 per episode. They're only $2 if you buy them individually. I haven't looked at other shows like Lost, so I'm not sure how the prices compare.
you get a poor-quality video file
It's not HD or anything, but it's certainly better quality than I get from over-the-air TV. Played on a 19" CRT, I really don't notice the quality being an issue. If I had a projector, I'd probably notice, an
Re:Free on iTMS, too? (Score:2)
Great (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Great (Score:2)
I call shenanigans. Lost is on ABC which doesn't even need cable. If you're so "busy" and don't need the "cost overhead", it would seem silly to pay for broadband then have to wait around for it to download.
Re:Great (Score:2)
I wonder what Apple's reaction is? (Score:2)
Re:I wonder what Apple's reaction is? (Score:2)
On the plus side (Score:2)
I just hope this doesn't include those lame locally-produced commercials, such as furniture, auto dealers, and the like.
--
New Face Found on Mars [suvalleynews.com]
yay! oh wait next day? (Score:3)
Then i read:
Hmm, so my high quality HDTV rips finish downloading at the same time their low quality flash/rm/wmv video files are "available" for streaming*, and they have commercials?
Sorry abc, your not quite there yet. good try though.
*i would never believe they would let me download and archive the copies. if thats true ill eat my hat.
Re:yay! oh wait next day? (Score:2)
After a show finishes:
- Someone has to rip the show to whatever format necessary
- Upload that show somewhere fast. How big are these rips? Almost a gig I would imagine.
- You have to find said site and download the show or wait for it to get spread around p2p networks.
All in all, I think you're looking at either a couple of hours of sitting at your computer in
Re:yay! oh wait next day? (Score:2)
ABC had the chance to be better than the pirates and they blew it. If all they did was make it available in DVD-R format at the same time the show was aired, people could begin downloading it that night and have it ready to watch later or the next day at their leisure. It would effectively kill P2P versions of those shows since you could
Re:yay! oh wait next day? (Score:2)
Misunderstanding? (Score:2)
Vs. MythTv (Score:2, Insightful)
Its Free! (Score:2, Informative)
Then again, ABC doesn't really have any shows that I'd actually be interested in this feature for. I do hope that NBC and CBS follow this lead, as well as Fox (f
Re:Its Free! (Score:3, Interesting)
Until they give me high quality I have zero interest.
Cue the people claiming I am STEALING from them by watching the bittorrents
Ads^2 (Score:2)
I've never used Google Video's paid service or iTunes, but unless I miss my guess the TV shows for sale there are commercial-free, with iTunes even letting you download it to your iPod.
Seems like ABC is straggling a bit when they should be playing catch-up. After all, the first legal
Whining (Score:2)
Watch at work? (Score:3, Insightful)
An easy to use access system (a web page) will mean anyone will be able to find and watch them with no software install (p2p etc.). This could be hard for IT administrators to stamp out.
I gaze into my crystal ball....
About freakin' time (Score:2)
Geeze louise (Score:5, Insightful)
What is the purpose of your complaining?
First, you don't have to buy the shows on iTMS, most of you complaining probably don't even own an iPod let alone the iPod that works with this service.
Second, many people actually enjoy the shows that are being sold on iTMS, that is, they want to watch it more then once. I would jump on the bandwagon with you if iTMS sold shows for $1.99 per view, but you are buying a video file you can watch over again. It may not be within the same month, or year, but many people do enjoy watching a full season of TV over a few days or weeks.
Why is it that some people are so jealous or fanatical about companies that make money? Why bother to complain. If a company or entity forced you to contribute to their profit, then that is reason for complaining (i.e. the government and taxes or gas companies). But some corporation that sells television shows is really no target for the kind of criticism and whining people are doing. Your just wasting your breath and straining your fingers.
When someone complains about a product or service they have no intention of buying or participating in, then that is just moronic. It is a classic definition of an idiot.
Embraced iTunes, won't embrace iCommercials (Score:2)
So I have to say, I like 22 minute episodes of The Office and Battle Star Galactica at 45 minutes. What I don't like? Commercials. What I HATE? Commercials I can't skip or do anything but wait through.
I'd much rather pay for a non-commercial version I can watch on my iPod (a
Re:Embraced iTunes, won't embrace iCommercials (Score:2)
The revolution will be commercialized.
DETAILS? Resolution? DRM? (Score:2)
If it's another offering at 320x200 I could care less. The vendor that starts airing shows at DECENT resolutions (above 640x480) will have my $$$.
Good News Everyone! (Score:2)
"wget http://www.abc.com/ [abc.com]"
I'm just getting a lot of junk, no shows so far.
I hope they get this fixed soon!
What this means for BT TV? (Score:2)
Now that their online site will compete directly with .torrent sites, I wonder if we will start to see lawsuits and some serious crackdowns on the available TV torrent sites.
All I know is that this will not affect me downloading the show. T
Re:Unavoidable commercials? - What a crock! (Score:2)
Re:Unavoidable commercials? - What a crock! (Score:2)
You're joking, right? (Score:2)
Re:It's Corporate Greed, nothing else. (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, ABC doesn't get a dime from your cable bill. Cable companies are making huge profits by charging you to view ABC in digital or HD. Only those specialty channels like HBO that you pay extra for get revenue from your cable bill. Again, I would prefer if MOST television was not a premium channel because I don't think 100 HBO like channels would survive or offer the same quality of content as HBO.
Do what I do. I never watch TV in real time anymore. I record all the shows I want to watch on my PVR, and this way I can fast forward through the commercials. It saves me time (up to 12 minutes per hour of programming), and I am not annoyed by all the advertising.
If you don't like commercials, then don't watch TV. Its almost hypocritical to complain about commercials but expect to still watch television for free or cheap. The two have gone hand in hand since the beginning. Pick up a book or rent movies or play video games if you want cheap commercial free entertainment.
Re:It's Corporate Greed, nothing else. (Score:4, Informative)
I hate to nitpick, but that's (probably) inaccurate. Almost all channels carried by cable get a chunk of the bill. It's true that premium channels like HBO, Cinemax, and so forth get a lot more, but even basic cable channels usually take between 10 cents and $2 per subscriber. For example, BusinessWeek [businessweek.com] reported in 2003 that ESPN charges an average of $1.93 per subscriber per month.
Now, ABC itself usually doesn't get paid by your cable company, but the local broadcast affiliate that carries ABC probably does. Federal law provides both "must carry" and "retransmission consent" provisions that cable companies have to abide by. In essence, a local broadcaster can try to negotiate with the cable company to permit transmission in exchange for a fee. If the cable company refuses to pay, the broadcaster has the choice to block the cable company from transmitting its signal, or to demand that it do so for free. Early this year, a dispute with an ABC affiliate [fortwayne.com] caused the cable company to pull the station off the cable system at the station's request.
With these provisions, the amount of money a broadcaster can get from the cable company depends on how popular the station is. Local affiliates of the "big 5" networks usually have bargaining power to compel the cable companies to pay. Independent broadcasters and religious stations, on the other hand, usually opt for more viewers through asserting the "must carry" rule.
I agree with the rest of your post; I just wanted to point out these facts, which most people don't seem to know about.
Re:It's Corporate Greed, nothing else. (Score:2)
I should note that I was a deprived child, and didn't first get exposed to cable until the mid-90's, so I could be wrong...
I do know that Time-Warner (my provider) isn't exactly in dire financial straits, but my cable bill keeps going up, and the ratio of content to commercial keeps going down...