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You Say You Want A Revolution? 503

rafemonkey writes "Looks like the first hard info on a revolution game has hit the internet. The game, from Ubisoft, is called Red Steel. It's a FPS where the Revo's positional controller takes the place of the mouse. And, for those of you that were worried, the graphics look nice." PointlessWasteofTime points out that it doesn't actually look like an FPS, but more of a GunCon title, in a piece called A FanBoy Intervention. Elite Bastards has a brief history of the Revolution console. From the Waste of Time article: "Look at the Red Steel screens again. Never mind that Ubisoft has a habit of publishing concept renders and claiming they're in-game screenshots, and never mind that shots like that in magazines tend to have usually been 'touched up' a bit. Just look at the screens, then look at the inset photos of the people pointing and shooting with their Rev controllers: Guys... it's just a freaking light gun game. Tell me it's not. This isn't a badass 'Halo killer.' It's next-gen Duck Hunt."
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You Say You Want A Revolution?

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  • Duck Hunt? Not! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) * <akaimbatman@gmaYEATSil.com minus poet> on Monday April 10, 2006 @02:44PM (#15100181) Homepage Journal
    Guys... it's just a freaking light gun game. Tell me it's not. This isn't a badass 'Halo killer.' It's next-gen Duck Hunt.

    Really? I wasn't aware that Duck Hunt allowed you free-movement in a 3D environment. Oooohhh, that's right. It didn't.

    This isn't the next Duck Hunt, and (unless it's on rails, which apparently it's not) it's not the next Time Crisis either. What it is, is a new generation of First Person Shooters that actually work on a console. No more fidgeting with those tiny analog controllers! You can now take aim and fire, all while strafing, running, jumping, (can we do Matrix style flipping, puullleeeazze?), and dodging. If this works out, Nintendo will have again revolutionized the console controller! Which would be impressive, considering that their Gamecube controller just didn't live up to its predecessors.

    Of course, that's a pretty big "if". Nintendo is telling us that they've developed inexpensive positional monitors that are more natural than a light gun with target-painting, but with a full controller built in. Given that most of us remember how horrid the Power Glove was (Lucas: "I love the Power Glove. It's so bad." Yeah, right.) and that target painting doesn't work on LCD screens, Nintendo has one heck of a tall order to fill.
  • by panic911 ( 224370 ) * on Monday April 10, 2006 @02:46PM (#15100204) Homepage
    "Guys... it's just a freaking light gun game. Tell me it's not. This isn't a badass 'Halo killer.' It's next-gen Duck Hunt."

    It's not JUST a freaking light gun game. It's a light gun first person shooter, which is almost unheard of. I'm pretty sure that the "Next Gen Duck Hunt" and Halo-Killer could be one in the same, if the game is built right. This looks REALLY fun, and I think it has the potential to be a lot funner than any traditional FPS that I've played. There hasn't been a whole lot of change in FPS gameplay for years, this might be just what it needs.
  • Ah, objectivity. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10, 2006 @02:47PM (#15100209)
    And once again Zonk definitively dispels any rumors or allegations that he is an XBox 360 fanboy.

    So: This game involves pointing a device, and duck hunt involves pointing a device, therefore this game == duck hunt. Brilliant! Let's see here. So continuing along that logic: Qix involves rolling a trackball, and World of Warcraft on my PC (I have a trackball mouse) involves rolling a trackball, therefore Qix == World of Warcraft!! Amazing.

    I guess when the only tool you've ever used is a lightgun, everything looks like a nail? Or something.
  • Re:Duck Hunt? Not! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nocomment ( 239368 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @02:47PM (#15100216) Homepage Journal
    Not only that but duck hunt was a kick-ass game. If we have a 'Next-Gen' Super Mario, why not a next gen duck-hunt?
  • by Jerf ( 17166 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @02:48PM (#15100218) Journal
    The one interface not allowed for a First Person shooter is, you know, a gun-like interface?

    Keyboard and mouse interface: Yup, it's a shooter!

    Gamepad interface: Yup, it's a shooter!

    Gun interface: OMGWTFBBQ, it's Duck hunt!

    What kind of stupid fanboy do you have to be to make that kind of argument?
  • Obvious (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Nightspirit ( 846159 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @02:51PM (#15100237)
    It was obvious light gun type games would turn up with that type of controller. However, while it may be a blast, it is hardly revolutionary. I was hoping to see some games where they tried something different. Launch is still a decent time away so we'll see what comes up.
  • Seems fine to me (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10, 2006 @02:55PM (#15100262)
    Shooters have rarely been about innovation, so the lack of anything new in the gameplay department is pretty much par for the course. The 'oldskool-revival' input device is probably the most exciting thing to happen in the world of shooters in years.
  • Too early to tell (Score:4, Insightful)

    by vapid transit ( 738521 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @02:57PM (#15100278)
    Until some of us actually get some real trigger time on the Revo's controller (E3?) I think that any "opinions" about it are just a lot of hot air. Maybe "Red Steel" will be a shallow, gimmicky game. Time will tell.
  • what's wrong in using something that ACTUALLY WORKS like a gun in a... *ahem* first person... *ahem* SHOOTER?
  • Sony and Microsoft will copy it immediately. And that will leave the Revolution where, exactly?

    As the market leader? As AMD can tell you, it's much nicer to make the other guy dance to your tune rather than dancing to his. The customers will see you as The Source(TM) for the latest and greatest, and mostly ignore the copycats.
  • by GrumblyStuff ( 870046 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @03:10PM (#15100371)
    What fanboyism? Yours?

    It sounds like an interesting if not great concept.

    But more to the point, why is a satirical site making headlines on /. and why is it being treated as any sort of legitiment analysis?
  • by thesaint05 ( 850634 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @03:10PM (#15100378)
    ...Sony and Microsoft will copy it immediately. And that will leave the Revolution where, exactly? Maybe one generation ahead? Being as how the current console lifecycle is anywhere from 3-5 years, it will be about 3-5 years for Nintendo to pave the way ahead for their new controller design. IF the games are good enough, and IF the technology works well enough, that could mean Nintendo becomes everybody's second console by default, which could put them at #1 in overall sales. Cost, features, and (if it holds up) games like this would make this easily everybody's first or second choice in console. Speculation though (even mine), is pointless right now. Wait AT LEAST until E3 to make anything approaching half-assed guesses.
  • by poot_rootbeer ( 188613 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @03:13PM (#15100399)
    I'd guess that 90% of households don't have large screen hidef TV's yet. And since the only HD content available these days is Xbox 360 games and a handful of broadcast and premium cable channels, I don't think HDTV adoption is going to be a factor until the console generation AFTER this coming one.

  • by SamSim ( 630795 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @03:30PM (#15100539) Homepage Journal
    Exactly.
  • Re:duck hunt halo (Score:3, Insightful)

    by HAKdragon ( 193605 ) <hakdragon&gmail,com> on Monday April 10, 2006 @03:34PM (#15100569)
    when was the last time you played a light gun FPS? SNES?

    Dreamcast, actually. House of the Dead 2 is really fun when you have a light gun.
  • by volfro ( 915297 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @03:34PM (#15100570)
    At least, that's what Nintendo's hoping.

    I think HD support will play into this upcoming race more than Nintendo plans for it to--but HD hardware will remain expensive until several years down the road, when the HDDVD/Blu-ray battle has been decided. The HD decision won't be a matter of people actually wanting HD content, since most general consumers don't really know the difference anyway, but companies are pushing HD pretty hard, making consumers think they need that HDTV.

    Anyway, the HD support is kind of a moot point once you get into gameplay. For instance: I played a friend's copy of Perfect Dark Zero on a nice HD LCD, and although the game was fun, and the graphics were beautiful, the difference wasn't really that huge, simply because it played like any other first person shooter. We played multiplayer for awhile, but it got old quickly; so what's the point of all those nice high-resolution textures if the game isn't particularly interesting or fun? If Nintendo makes good games, then that whole lack of HD is pretty insignificant.

  • Re:Wireless mouse (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MustardMan ( 52102 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @03:37PM (#15100594)
    Those little "air mice" use a gyroscope, which only measures relative motion, and not absolute position. The nintendo method triangulates its position using sensors placed on the sides of the TV - this measures absolute position and does not rely on gyroscopes, making it theoretically more accurate.
  • by raezr ( 946135 ) <`jraezr' `at' `gmail.com'> on Monday April 10, 2006 @03:46PM (#15100658) Homepage
    Tons of companies have copied the iPod and Apple still has dominance over the portable media industry.
  • by rAiNsT0rm ( 877553 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @04:22PM (#15100957) Homepage
    Wow. How does this get by so many people and then make it to so many outlets? Can that many people be asleep at the wheel at every juncture for drivel like this to get published not once but a multitude of times? Apparently so.

    Red Steel has been known to be a full movement FPS for some time now, and if someone with half a brain would look you plainly see the cord going to the nunchaku attachment in use... 3D movement. Aha! Tough one. Not to mention it *clearly states* that it is not on rail in the article... but who has time to read shit before flying off half-cocked and stating Red Steel is the next Duck Hunt.

    The Revolution is the first console in 10 years to even make me stop and notice. Something new and different awaits us, and the MS/Sony fanboi's just can't stand to think that maybe, just maybe, the days of cliche, tired, overextended genres may be coming closer to being over. I'm actually upset that the first published game is an FPS, since it is not revolutionary in the least... I will say though that the controller is made for FPS games. The control is intuitive and slick, Metroid Prime was being demoed originally and it was pure heaven to play with the controller. My only actually anticipated sequel would be to Luigi's Mansion, if ever there was a perfect setup for the Revo that is it.

    I'm most interested in seeing the truly new and 100% original content, that is where the Revo will begin to steal some thunder. Can we stop jumping to conclusions and trying to diss the Revo until we actually know even slightly substantiated rumors?
  • by Bulletz26 ( 967431 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @04:31PM (#15101020)
    I am suprised not to see any mention in these so-called unbiased articles of the massive potential the Revo has in the RTS genre. Aside from FPS's this is in my mind the "killer-app" genre for the Revolution, which could for the first time become a viable option in the console market. Think about how intutively the games could be controlled, pan across the map by moving the controller to the edges of the screen or pointing and click on a point on the minimap, just like a mouse, and click and drag to select units, again just like a mouse. And it could also one-up the keyboard/mouse combo because of its ability to navigate in 3d space, especially in space rts games such as Homeworld.

    The writer's assumption that all revo games will have to be very basic and dumbed-down, just goes to show he lacks any real creativity or imagination.
  • by WedgeTalon ( 823522 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @04:36PM (#15101056)
    This isn't a badass 'Halo killer.' It's next-gen Duck Hunt

    I see your point, but - by the same logic - isn't Halo really just a fancy Duck Hunt, except instead of a light gun you use a joystick?
  • Re:Duck Hunt? Not! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jalefkowit ( 101585 ) <jason@jaso3.14nlefkowitz.com minus pi> on Monday April 10, 2006 @04:37PM (#15101065) Homepage
    The GameCube controller was, in my opinion, absolutely spectacular. I don't understand why some people don't like it. The thing didn't have any awkward buttons.

    Absolutely! I thought the Cube's controller was the best of its generation; the XBox controller was too chunky, and Nintendo did something with the Cube that neither MS or Sony did with their consoles' controllers: they made all the buttons distinguishable by feel.

    That's an incredibly important thing. I can't count the number of times when I first got my PS2 that I would be playing a game, and the game would tell me "Push the X Button". Invariably I had to take my eyes off the screen and look at the controller to figure out which one of the identically sized buttons was "X". With the GC, that was never an issue; each button has its own shape, so you can find the right button without taking your eyes off the screen.

    This may seem like a small thing, but it's the small things that make or break usability, and Nintendo got this one right.

  • Re:obligatory... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by corbettw ( 214229 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @04:57PM (#15101257) Journal
    Just so everybody knows, that reference in the V for Vendetta movie is a play on a quote by early 20th century anarchist Emma Goldman ("If I can't dance, it's not my revolution"), although there's speculation that she may not have actually said that. But it's attributed to her, anyways.

    Yes, because a comment in a games forum about dance revolution must refer to some obscure anarchist quote, doesn't it?
  • WTF Slashdot?!?!? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nmaster64 ( 867033 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @05:01PM (#15101292)
    I swear, I've always backed you guys up when you screwed up, I've always had Zonk's back, but this report I will not take sitting down: THIS IS TOTAL BULLSHIT.

    Of all the Red Steel coverage floating around the net, you chose the links to people calling BS on the screenshots? No reports on how awesome this game looks and how wonderful the system will be if it works like they say, just the "oh, this can't be this good" speculation.

    No, you only looked at the bad. You pointed out the guy who said that these pictures were probably "touched up", but ignored Ubisoft's own claims that these are totally legit, real screenshots. You blatantly called it a GunCon game, while completely ignoring Game Informer's quote about it feeling like a true FPS, and NOT a lightgun game.

    In other words, you only looked at one side of the story, the negative one. The one with no facts to back it up. This is one of the most intriguing games I've seen in damn long time. Sure, you have to take stuff like this with a grain of salt, but to completely ignore how amazing this is and just calling it BS is bullshit itself on a level I have trouble comprehending.

    The game looks amazing. Period. There is not a reason in hell anyone should have a reason to question the graphics. If the Gamecube can pull off Resident Evil 4, the Revolution can pull off this. As for the controls, well, I don't think you should judge until you try it for yourself, but I also think it's stupid to think Ubisoft has Game Informer in their pocket and GI was lying when they talked about how great the game felt to play.

    I'm damn ashamed and quite frankly pissed off at you Slashdot. Get your act straight.
  • Re:Duck Hunt? Not! (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10, 2006 @05:08PM (#15101347)

    Invariably I had to take my eyes off the screen and look at the controller to figure out which one of the identically sized buttons was "X".

    If you have such a bad spatial sense, you're probably a very bad gamer. You're probably the kind of person that have to watch the keyboard while typing.

  • Re:Wireless mouse (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Valar ( 167606 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @05:25PM (#15101488)
    Umm... the same could be said of real guns. That's right. In real life, it is hard to aim.

    So I guess your complaint is that the new controller will allow increased realism?
  • by MaverickUW ( 177871 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @06:28PM (#15101859)
    With using the attachment they solve this problem. Think in most keyboard FPSs and some control schemes for console games. You use 4 keys for movement, move forward, move back, strafe left, strafe right), and the mouse (or other analog stick) to aim, shoot. The attachment has an analog stick to move you your four directions, you aim with the remote part, you shoot with the remote part, and likely duck or jump with the extra buttons on the attachment or the buttons on top of the remote.

    If they're smart and do it anything like PC games, you can choose the sensitivity. If you want to have to swing around a lot to force turning, then you can. If you want just a quick flick of the wrist to turn 180, then you probably can do that too. As close as this is to a mouse, it's still gonna create such a new style of doing it that people who already own everyone at games like Halo or Half Life or Battlefield won't be able to do it from the bat, everyone will start on a level playing field once more
  • by fabs64 ( 657132 ) <beaufabry+slashdot,org&gmail,com> on Monday April 10, 2006 @07:06PM (#15102128)
    *yawn* and I'm terribly offended that you would use the word "gay" in the incorrect "homosexual way". Being that I'm a light-hearted happy person that is.
  • by im_thatoneguy ( 819432 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @07:12PM (#15102170)
    ...just like how everyone has ignored Intel for the last 5 years. Ignored their inferiority. I know Xerox is still raking in the cash from mice.

    "The Source(tm)" usually dumps huge amounts of $$ and then someone else comes along and steals it. But hey... our patent process is far too strict, so I'm sure nobody will find a way to steal Nintendo's controller.
  • Re:Wireless mouse (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Keeper ( 56691 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @07:25PM (#15102261)
    If you wish to view it as such, feel free to.

    A real gun has additional mass, making it easier to hold steady. It is also held differently, and the stance in which you hold the gun improves accuracy. Additionally, in real life, your targets will be much larger the small targets presented on a 27" TV at viewing distance. I would also submit that real people move slower than their videogame counterparts.

    But we're not talking about real life. We're talking about video games. And we're talking about a game requiring precision using a mechanism that isn't ... 'precise'.

    Granted, I think that it is still a better mechanism than a handheld controller, but it does have its own unique set of problems.
  • by MobileTatsu-NJG ( 946591 ) on Monday April 10, 2006 @08:52PM (#15102723)
    " From light guns to interactive robots, to power gloves and two screen gameboys. Nintendo loves its gimmicks."

    A year after the DS has proven itself, and people are STILL using the word 'gimmick'?
  • Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday April 11, 2006 @04:08AM (#15104229)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things. -- Doug Gwyn

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