Computer Science as a Major and as a Career 578
An anonymous reader writes "IBM DeveloperWorks is running an interesting Q&A with Director of IBM's Academic Initiative, Gina Poole. In the article she talks specifically about taking computer science as a major and ultimately as a career. From the article: 'There are a couple of reasons [for the decline in science and engineering degrees]: one is a myth, believed by parents, students, and high school guidance counselors, that computer science and engineering jobs are all being outsourced to China and India. This is not true. The percentage of the total number of jobs in this space is quite small -- less than 5%. According to a government study, the voluntary attrition in the U.S. has outpaced the number of outsourced jobs to emerging nations. Further, for every job outsourced from the U.S., nine new jobs are actually created in the U.S.'"
Go for it! (Score:5, Informative)
But here is the deal.... We are not looking for people to help administer our systems. That is relatively easy to do, particularly with operating systems like OS X. You have to be bright and willing to work on *new* problems particularly those dealing with data management and visualization. Many comp-sci students want to go create games and there is a market for that, but where the technology for games really comes from is basic science research dealing with real-world problems. And in fact, some games and game engines are now being applied to real world problems.
There are a couple of exciting projects I am working on in these fields, namely I have just been asked to sit on the board of a media group that will deal with some of these issues and real world application of games and other digital media. Alexander Seropian (of Bungie fame) is also on this board and it should be interesting to see where this goes. Additionally, our research in a new area of bioscience called metabolomics looks ready to take off and we are working with a number of comp-sci graduate students, post-docs and faculty to create tools to deal with the types of data we use to pick out signatures of cells much like the CIA and NASA use to determine signatures of "things" they are interested in. Also data management and communication is another field that is very much in demand and we are working with groups to help us create databases that can be mined and used interactively to collaboratively annotate and discuss data with multiple users.
Lemme tell you folks, if you are interested in computer science, go for it. There is certainly a market for talented programmers and looking four to ten years in the future (which is about as far as I can), the demand will be there.
Re:Go for it! (Score:2, Informative)
Enroll in just about any accredited doctoral program in comp sci. at a university, which by the way is not as onerous as one might think as tuition is often waved and you get a stipend on the order of 12-30k/year. After you finish your Ph.D., then you have your pick of post-docs just about anywhere in the country with a top comp sci. department.
Re:Go for it! (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, very true. And, in fact, with a Ph.D. in Comp. Sci., you get to be called "doctor".
"Can command six figures" displays the shortage is nowhere near serious enough. "Can command seven figures" and you would have a flood of people willing to do 8-11 years of post college education.
What world do you live in? Do you understand that the average income for an M.D. is about $150k? Do the math. Do you understand that most of us "doctors" don't go around driving high end automobiles or living in mansions? If that's what you want, then go sell real estate or something where you can makes lots of money for very little work.
Don't believe the propaganda from IBM.com (Score:5, Informative)
What the oh-so-clever managers and execs at IBM fail to realize is that if everyone's busy selling, then developing the product becomes a lower-priority item and you end up with crap products. With a few notable exceptions (e.g., the Eclipse core), this is why IBM has such a bad reputation for producing poor-quality software.
And now they post this article that makes it sound like they actually want to hire real developers? Whatever. These comments said it best: "The real title should be:" [slashdot.org], and "And we believe an article from IBM?" [slashdot.org].
Re:Go for it! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:CS vs. CE (Score:3, Informative)
The thing is, at the end of 4 years, I had two resumes: my embedded software resume, and my digital design/VLSI resume. I felt comfortable applying to entry-level for either path. Embedded software worked out. CE opened a lot of doors that I woudln't get with a CS degree. CS has other paths CE doesn't but none of them appealed to me (I had no desire to be a game programmer). Once you pick a door and get into the workplace, however, it's not particularly important either way. Experience dominates from then on.
A major point to consider is that it's engineering, not science. If research is your thing, I'd suggest CS. My math and algorithm coursework was adequate, but kind of weak compared to CS guys. Similarly if you like working on big apps (windows stuff, games, business apps, etc.) I'd say go CS.
But if embedded systems, drivers, OS work, etc. sounds like your thing, CE is definitely the way to go. Most CS guys who come thru can't work an oscilloscope to save their life.
While I'm at it, I'd also suggest you look into internships and if you can take a project/capstone class, do it. We get tons of entry-level resumes, most of which look the same. GPA's not a big deal to us so long as you graduated. What sets people apart is really experience (i.e. internships) and interesting/relevant projects. It was that mp3 player that got me my first job more than my major.
Re:Go for it! (Score:3, Informative)
My thirty years experience does not get me interviews when the job listing says "B.S. or B.A. in computing or related field required." Sigh. If they would only talk to me they would know what I can do. IBM once introduced me as the "best APL programmer west of the Mississippi." (Yeah, that was a long time ago, but it happened.)
I've been making good money, but not as an employee--no one wants to talk to me when they find I have no degree--but as a consultant. It seems contracting is all I can do now if I want to get paid more than the kid that just last week was saying "You want fries with that?"
its all good! (Score:2, Informative)
the thing about cs is that its definitely a field that you have to enjoy, and have some aptitude for, in order to succeed. coding and problem solving should be fun. it just has to click with you. if its not coming, then you're probably better off not forcing it.
as for the job market, it seems pretty good right now for talented people. i'm 27 and working in the financial sector right now, but started out more interested in pure tech stuff. but if you want $$, you have to go finance. there are actually interesting projects here, too. the trick is to find a company that suits your work style-- big and corporate, small and personal, and everything in between.
salary wise, i should be breaking 200k salary this coming year (base + bonus). out of school, i was part of a dot-bomb for about 6 months and then worked two other jobs before arriving where i am now-- i made about 90k at both of those.
experience is key. work while you're in school if you can! get that experience, get an internship, do something that allows you to write and read some code. don't expect school to give you enough to get by. but at the same time, be solid in your cs fundamentals so you know how to interview. you'd be amazed at how many 3.8+ gpa cs students i've interviewed that can't answer basic questions about oo and data structures. they're right out of school- this should be fresh in their minds. i cut more slack on these topics to people who've been working for a few years..
anyway, bottom line is if you're good then have no worries- there will be work and there will be pretty good money.
otherwise, find something else that you can excel at and enjoy. you can't really fake being a good programmer.